Hunters seem to me to be a big reason why a two-spec system won't work - specifically the new Beast Mastery ultimate allowing you to tame exotic pets. How would that work in an easy change two-spec system? You're in a raid and suddenly can't use your Devilsaur? Or you're in a raid with your boar, and switch to your Devilsaur spec.
Hunters seem to me to be a big reason why a two-spec system won't work - specifically the new Beast Mastery ultimate allowing you to tame exotic pets. How would that work in an easy change two-spec system? You're in a raid and suddenly can't use your Devilsaur? Or you're in a raid with your boar, and switch to your Devilsaur spec.
Easy; Hunters have to select two specs for their pets, and each spec is tied to their current spec, even if they're both identical.
If they felt ambitious, they could even tie the summoned pet to the spec and allow the Hunter to just summon whichever one was tied to the current spec, but that'd probably break the arenas or some shit like that (ooooh, but you could disable spec swapping in arenas! Problem solved!), so yes, perhaps a BM spec hunter wold be stuck without their novelty pet. According to Blizzard, the special pets will have unique abilities, but aren't meant to be outright more powerful than regular ones. The real perk of the spec is supposed to be the extra pet talent points, which this swapping would still offer.
So I guess it's not really an issue.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
If I am in Raid X and have Devilsaur out, and change specs, my pet will disappear. I will need to go to town to get a new one, unless some crazy shit happens. Which means hunters are missing out on fluid spec changes - and hunters never miss out on any cheap and easy shortcut, by Blizzard mandate.
If I am in Raid X and have Devilsaur out, and change specs, my pet will disappear. I will need to go to town to get a new one, unless some crazy shit happens. Which means hunters are missing out on fluid spec changes - and hunters never miss out on any cheap and easy shortcut, by Blizzard mandate.
Devilsaur devolves down to a Raptor until you hit a stables.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I mean all they have to do is copy Guild Wars talent saving and copying. And why do I have to go to town to do it. Its so ass backwards.
If I could flip on the fly I'd play a lot more.
So what you're saying is they should really just give us x2 the talent points? What's the point of having talent specs at all if you can shift them on the fly?
Oh hey, we're at Shade, our tanks can go from prot to arms/fury/ret. Now we're done, they can go back to prot. Why not just make it during the fight, then? Which is pretty much removing talent specs entirely since everyone will have the same two/three builds that they swap between on the fly.
Talent specs are there to introduce variation and limitations within a single class. Being able to flip them at any time removes that altogether. So why have them at all?
EDIT: As a pally, I can't say this would be that bad since hybrid classes would benefit the most. Why not be able to dps like a ret pally while holding a two-hander or tank like a prot as soon as I put on a shield and sword. And then heal the raid at super efficiency when needed.
Why would anyone roll a pure class? Or play them ever again?
I dunno. I've been raiding since the days when MC and Onyxia were relavent, and there was something nice about staggering across the finish line with a tank, a couple healers and a dps or two still up. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't ideal, but it was nice.
Nowadays the fights are often initially tuned to the point that a single mistake from a tank or healer can waste the attempt. On the up side, the hardest of enrages are often on fairly short fights, but on the down side, those fights are often frought with shenanigans of their own. Example; Brutallus: stomp + MH + OH = Dead Tank, even though (far as I know) it shouldn't happen. Twins: Confound + MH + OH = Dead Tank, even though (far as I know) it shouldn't happen.
According to what I've read, it's essentially something to do with the way that the game handles events that effectively happen simultaneously, though I'm baffled why they wouldn't just include a "if stomp/confound should happen in the next 0.5 seconds, no melee swings" or something to the mob's attacks.
Basically, sometimes the RNG just bends your tank over and violates them for no good reason.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
Well, assuming ret is less dps. I guess it tops out earlier? With crap gear, I was maintaining 650 in SSC last night, which is more than my slightly less geared mage could do. Anyway, so that's cool if that's how it goes.
Ret pallies are there as buff-bots (Oh, God, here we go again) and can't find a 5 man to save their life. gg? I dunno, that's worst case in your evaluation so maybe not, but I've seen in happen.
Oh wait, except that if they could just 'switch' to being tanks or healers, why would any 5 man let a pally dps ever again? You still get all the buffs, but now the tank shortage is solved! Sucks to be a pally who really doesn't want to tank right now. Oh well, guess you should just roll a pure DPS class if you want to dps, right? Sound familiar? It does to me.
Also, the shade thing isn't bad per se, but allowing on the fly changes will do a few things that are bad:
1) Hybrid classes will get forced into whatever role that server has a shortage of. Probably tanking. Maybe healing. Never dpsing.
2) Removes any sense of class customization. Why have talent specs at all? What would be the point?
Actually, that last one, Forar: What WOULD be the point of talents with on the fly switches? Why not just re-itemize and make it so that whatever gear you're wearing defines what your role in a group is?
EDIT: To be honest, I don't have a problem with THAT idea, but it has to come with a change that makes hybrid dpsers viable in not just raid scenarios, but 5 mans.
Crawling across the finish line was awesome, I remember those times. With a single rogue and the tank providing all the dps as he and like a druid and a paladin are left alive.
Well, assuming ret is less dps. I guess it tops out earlier?
Ret Pallies aren't weak. Our token ret pally back in the Mount Hyjal days was consistently putting out 1100+ single target DPS. And considering what else he brought the raid (Imp. Might/3% Crit Chance/Judgments), he was pretty much invaluable.
EDIT: I should mention, we are an alliance guild, and Belf Ret Pallies are capable of quite a bit more DPS.
Crawling across the finish line was awesome, I remember those times. With a single rogue and the tank providing all the dps as he and like a druid and a paladin are left alive.
I remember a particularly messy Onyxia like that. In the end, only the tank, two DPS and a resto shaman were left alive. The shaman died four times(!) that attempt.
Iron Weasel on
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GT: Tanith 6227
Well, assuming ret is less dps. I guess it tops out earlier? With crap gear, I was maintaining 650 in SSC last night, which is more than my slightly less geared mage could do. Anyway, so that's cool if that's how it goes.
Ret pallies are there as buff-bots (Oh, God, here we go again) and can't find a 5 man to save their life. gg? I dunno, that's worst case in your evaluation so maybe not, but I've seen in happen.
Oh wait, except that if they could just 'switch' to being tanks or healers, why would any 5 man let a pally dps ever again? You still get all the buffs, but now the tank shortage is solved! Sucks to be a pally who really doesn't want to tank right now. Oh well, guess you should just roll a pure DPS class if you want to dps, right? Sound familiar? It does to me.
Also, the shade thing isn't bad per se, but allowing on the fly changes will do a few things that are bad:
1) Hybrid classes will get forced into whatever role that server has a shortage of. Probably tanking. Maybe healing. Never dpsing.
2) Removes any sense of class customization. Why have talent specs at all? What would be the point?
Actually, that last one, Forar: What WOULD be the point of talents with on the fly switches? Why not just re-itemize and make it so that whatever gear you're wearing defines what your role in a group is?
EDIT: To be honest, I don't have a problem with THAT idea, but it has to come with a change that makes hybrid dpsers viable in not just raid scenarios, but 5 mans.
To address your points in order;
Yes, in large raids, Ret is very much meant as a buffing slot moreso than individual dps, but as a flat % damage increase, with very high dps raid members, their contribution is very significant. Is this not a better lot in raiding than as a practical joke?
Not to personally re-tread that hate filled path of darkness, but as very useful 5 man tanks and healers (barring massive group wide damage fights), I honestly don't mind them having a slightly less desirable grouping choice, or any hybrid for that matter. Ret is more viable solo and in groups than it has been in years, and there's always room for improvement, but as one of the overpopulated dps masses, my heart doesn't exactly bleed over having only 2 viable group specs (and 3 viable raid specs, and all 3 are viable group specs, if not for the fact that ret doesn't often shine as much in 5 mans). For progression content, most dps have 1-2 specs if that, and Ret Paladins get no more shit than any rogue that tries to zone into a 10/25 man as Subtlety. As much as it might suck not to be able to run a group with the spec you wish, at least there are other options open to get the gear/reputation you want. Most dps don't have that luxury.
Switching specs during combat for anything but DPS classes likely wouldn't be a big deal for most fights, as you can't currently change gear (aside from weapons) during combat. Swapping spec + equipping a shield or a new staff does not a tank or healer make. At least for most raids unless you vastly outgear them, in which case it's a fairly moot point anyway.
Customization? How does a druid spec'ing feral and resto in a 5 or 10 man dilute the class? They can do two jobs, but only one of them at a time. It's now easier to form groups and complete objectives on both the micro (individual) and macro (server) scale. I've PuG'd a LOT of instances over the years, and often hear "sorry, we don't need a X (tank, healer) we need a Y (healer, tank), and bluntly, I'm not spending gold just to do one instance. I'd happy swap spec/gear set, however.
Just because you have 2 specs available, doesn't mean you can do both jobs at the same time. So I spec my druid for tanking and healing. Does that mean I just need 4 dps for the group? No, it means I need 3 dps and a tank OR a healer, rather than being feral spec'd and needing a Healer. The group is now easier to form by an order of magnitude, quadruply so because of those 3 dps, one or more may well be a druid, shaman, priest or paladin who happens to be X/Resto-Holy spec'd. Now instead of forming groups based strictly on spec, they can practically just be built on the assumption that you can 'wildcard' in anything you're missing. Even better when the _____ (Tank/Healer) needs to go suddenly.
A change that keeps hybrids viable? VIABLE? Hybrid DPS and utility has gone up across the board with TBC. Shadow Priests, Enhancement/Elemental Shaman, Balance Druids, Ret Paladins, DPS Warriors and the like are no longer mere running jokes; they are often highly sought after for raids, even if most are merely given a "token raid slot", that is far more than many of them saw in Pre-TBC, AND that's with 15 less raid spots to squeeze them in! Make them any MORE viable and you WILL kill off the need to have 'dps' classes on board.
This very much seems to be a "Glass half empty / Glass half full" difference of opinion.
You (and others) see "Oh god, I'm going to have to spec Ret and either Holy or Prot, and will always be expected to play as Prot/Holy for instances / raids."
Whereas I (and others) see "Hooray! I can spec Ret / Prot on my Paladin and get into like EVERY GROUP EVER!" (given that I've solo healed every regular 5 man as either ret or prot while wearing healing gear).
Sure heroics and raids require more of the individual, but that's the idea, and that's where having two specs makes you MORE in demand, rather than less.
Yet another edit: apologies for repeated edits for content and whatnot here. Typed this out over a lengthy period at work while working on other things, and thus it's something of a mess. Please excuse any epic rambling or run-on sentences, or crimes against spelling or punctuation, particularly the comma.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I dunno. I've been raiding since the days when MC and Onyxia were relavent, and there was something nice about staggering across the finish line with a tank, a couple healers and a dps or two still up. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't ideal, but it was nice.
That was especially the case for us with Onyxia....hell, I've killed it with several healers, the tank, and no dps...from 10% to 0%.
Yeah, you don't end up with those sort of fights much anymore. You have a few though that could work for though, like Supremus.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
I see your point, and I agree that a lot has been done to make hybrid dps more viable. I'm concerned that this sort of thing would be a step backwards, not forwards, when it comes to allowing hybrid classes a damage role. I see good things for Ret Pallies in 3.0 and I just got into a guild that prefers I take my Ret Pally over my hunter or mage to the raids. Mainly because when we did SSC last night I was one of two pallies and we had 5 hunters and 4 mages.
However, I missed out on doing several five mans as I was leveling my mage because I could never get a group together that had both a healer and a tank (I just got 70 a few days ago). My mage has never seen the inside of a Coilfang instance. I started up a bunch of groups and more than once tanked on my pally or healed on my priest just so the others could get it done. And it's cool that this will make finding groups easier (maybe), it'll also mean people will freak if I roll on a dps item while tanking if there's a rogue or warrior in the group.
To be honest, I'm actually okay with the idea of spec switching between two or three pre-designed specs that I can just go to an inn or whatever to switch. I don't think the sky will fall, although I DO think it'll mean I'll be tanking 5 man pugs if I want to run my pally, but there are worse things and I have 4 70s right now anyway. I just don't think it'll be all sunshine and lollipops like you seem to think.
PS. I heard that Silithids are being made tamable? Is this true? I said being able to tame a Silithid would be the one thing that would get me to play my hunter again and I never thought Blizzard would do it.
Spec swapping made warriors/pallies/rogues/warlocks/death knights/mages/druids/hunters/shaman/priests everywhere cry with happiness.
You're doing it wrong. If you are a warrior who wants to PVE, you are either prot or you are senior enough so that you can roll what ever the fuck spec you like and no one will call you on it. DPS warrs are not wanted to 5/10 mans unless they are running with friends. Prot warrs are not able to do anything productive outside of tanking.
DPS warrs are not wanted to 5/10 mans unless they are running with friends.
This is a silly lie. Our DPS warrior was pretty much always #1 on damage. 2k DPS on trash, in T5? That's pretty damn impressive. For what it's worth, he's a gigantic, self-fellating cock, but amazing DPS regardless.
DPS warrs are not wanted to 5/10 mans unless they are running with friends.
This is a silly lie. Our DPS warrior was pretty much always #1 on damage. 2k DPS on trash, in T5? That's pretty damn impressive. For what it's worth, he's a gigantic, self-fellating cock, but amazing DPS regardless.
WWS please. 2k dps from a warrior in T5 content is impressive, less so if it's just counting multi-mob pulls where he can Sweeping Strike / Whirlwind to his hearts content with 2 dedicated healers keeping his essentially 'tanking' butt alive.
Unless he's in Sunwell gear, this would make him Gods Gift To Warriors, and you should begin trying to clone him right now.
Once I quit WoW, and went and got a real life. Spent time with friends, worked hard and got a promotion! I was so pleased, but the purple dragon said he wanted me to teach an inner city school math, which I did until the toast was done. Then I woke up in Durotar, leveling a troll rogue called Buttzbandit
I often see dps warriors in 5 mans. I mean, non heroics a group of retards can handle, so that's a given
And even in heroics, it works pretty well. Of course, the retard factor should be lower
My case with running 5 mans Normal or Heroics on my Druid is, I feel under performing now during the tail end of TBC after looking at what's available to me come WotLK. Regardless of dual specing or not. I get an actual Rez that's not on a 20 min timer. I can CC for longer than 6 secs now that Entangling Roots is usable indoors and it won't pulverize my mana. Having those options to me will help scrub some of the sand out of my vagina about healing because I won't have to deal with, "lawl rez? Dr00ds suck."
Also getting a free flying mount, and clearing a good majority of Nagrand's Group quests in a couple hours last night killed my "This time, it's casual" stance. I wanna leave work right now and hit 70. Only two more levels only two more......
DPS warrs are not wanted to 5/10 mans unless they are running with friends.
This is a silly lie. Our DPS warrior was pretty much always #1 on damage. 2k DPS on trash, in T5? That's pretty damn impressive. For what it's worth, he's a gigantic, self-fellating cock, but amazing DPS regardless.
WWS please. 2k dps from a warrior in T5 content is impressive, less so if it's just counting multi-mob pulls where he can Sweeping Strike / Whirlwind to his hearts content with 2 dedicated healers keeping his essentially 'tanking' butt alive.
Dude. I PMed him a couple weeks ago asking if he had any screens of Damage Meters. He doesn't. He cleaned them off when he deleted WoW. I know you guys have no reason to believe me, and that's fine, but honestly, I wouldn't feel crazy telling you he's probably one of the best warriors in the game. The best. Dude was fucking amazing. I don't like him at all, but he was fucking amazing. He is busy playing beta right now, and I think his account is cancelled, but... I will see if maybe I can get him to log in for a Karazhan or something, assuming he can get into his account. Here's his armory, for the meantime, though his gear has (obviously) improved since T5 stuff.
EDIT: The really shitty part, is, I know I have damage meters with him on there, but I can't get to any of them, because they are on a HDD that took a shit. I haven't wiped it or anything, but I can't get into it, and don't know how to recover it.
I need screenshots of any damage meters from back in the day. They have to have Remiel on them. I wish our WWS reports hadn't expired.
So far, I've gotten a screenshot of him doing 1450 DPS (meh), on a boss in Hyjal. Not sure what boss, not sure what gear. I know it was our early runs of MH, because we died on an early boss.
Well, assuming ret is less dps. I guess it tops out earlier?
Ret Pallies aren't weak. Our token ret pally back in the Mount Hyjal days was consistently putting out 1100+ single target DPS. And considering what else he brought the raid (Imp. Might/3% Crit Chance/Judgments), he was pretty much invaluable.
EDIT: I should mention, we are an alliance guild, and Belf Ret Pallies are capable of quite a bit more DPS.
And in response to both this argument, and the one regarding warriors. This is somewhere in BT, I think. I'm not 100% sure.
Warrior in first. Ret Pally second. Enh Shaman third. (Then Cat Drood, Rogue, MS/BF Warrior)
Posts
Easy; Hunters have to select two specs for their pets, and each spec is tied to their current spec, even if they're both identical.
If they felt ambitious, they could even tie the summoned pet to the spec and allow the Hunter to just summon whichever one was tied to the current spec, but that'd probably break the arenas or some shit like that (ooooh, but you could disable spec swapping in arenas! Problem solved!), so yes, perhaps a BM spec hunter wold be stuck without their novelty pet. According to Blizzard, the special pets will have unique abilities, but aren't meant to be outright more powerful than regular ones. The real perk of the spec is supposed to be the extra pet talent points, which this swapping would still offer.
So I guess it's not really an issue.
If I am in Raid X and have Devilsaur out, and change specs, my pet will disappear. I will need to go to town to get a new one, unless some crazy shit happens. Which means hunters are missing out on fluid spec changes - and hunters never miss out on any cheap and easy shortcut, by Blizzard mandate.
I mean all they have to do is copy Guild Wars talent saving and copying. And why do I have to go to town to do it. Its so ass backwards.
If I could flip on the fly I'd play a lot more.
Devilsaur devolves down to a Raptor until you hit a stables.
At any inn seems more likely to me. And hey, for BM hunters, a stable master is going to be nearby.
(I think currently, when you respec, you just can't summon your exotic pet anymore and you have to switch it)
So what you're saying is they should really just give us x2 the talent points? What's the point of having talent specs at all if you can shift them on the fly?
Oh hey, we're at Shade, our tanks can go from prot to arms/fury/ret. Now we're done, they can go back to prot. Why not just make it during the fight, then? Which is pretty much removing talent specs entirely since everyone will have the same two/three builds that they swap between on the fly.
Talent specs are there to introduce variation and limitations within a single class. Being able to flip them at any time removes that altogether. So why have them at all?
EDIT: As a pally, I can't say this would be that bad since hybrid classes would benefit the most. Why not be able to dps like a ret pally while holding a two-hander or tank like a prot as soon as I put on a shield and sword. And then heal the raid at super efficiency when needed.
Why would anyone roll a pure class? Or play them ever again?
because these 2 statements contradict each other
B.net: Kusanku
Please explain why this would be a bad thing.
Because hybrid dps isn't (in most cases) super impressive, and Blizzard has a giant hard-on for enrage timers?
Edit: please feel free to see my above posts on this very page as to actual reasons why this change could be very good for the game.
B.net: Kusanku
Nowadays the fights are often initially tuned to the point that a single mistake from a tank or healer can waste the attempt. On the up side, the hardest of enrages are often on fairly short fights, but on the down side, those fights are often frought with shenanigans of their own. Example; Brutallus: stomp + MH + OH = Dead Tank, even though (far as I know) it shouldn't happen. Twins: Confound + MH + OH = Dead Tank, even though (far as I know) it shouldn't happen.
According to what I've read, it's essentially something to do with the way that the game handles events that effectively happen simultaneously, though I'm baffled why they wouldn't just include a "if stomp/confound should happen in the next 0.5 seconds, no melee swings" or something to the mob's attacks.
Basically, sometimes the RNG just bends your tank over and violates them for no good reason.
Ret pallies are there as buff-bots (Oh, God, here we go again) and can't find a 5 man to save their life. gg? I dunno, that's worst case in your evaluation so maybe not, but I've seen in happen.
Oh wait, except that if they could just 'switch' to being tanks or healers, why would any 5 man let a pally dps ever again? You still get all the buffs, but now the tank shortage is solved! Sucks to be a pally who really doesn't want to tank right now. Oh well, guess you should just roll a pure DPS class if you want to dps, right? Sound familiar? It does to me.
Also, the shade thing isn't bad per se, but allowing on the fly changes will do a few things that are bad:
1) Hybrid classes will get forced into whatever role that server has a shortage of. Probably tanking. Maybe healing. Never dpsing.
2) Removes any sense of class customization. Why have talent specs at all? What would be the point?
Actually, that last one, Forar: What WOULD be the point of talents with on the fly switches? Why not just re-itemize and make it so that whatever gear you're wearing defines what your role in a group is?
EDIT: To be honest, I don't have a problem with THAT idea, but it has to come with a change that makes hybrid dpsers viable in not just raid scenarios, but 5 mans.
B.net: Kusanku
Ret Pallies aren't weak. Our token ret pally back in the Mount Hyjal days was consistently putting out 1100+ single target DPS. And considering what else he brought the raid (Imp. Might/3% Crit Chance/Judgments), he was pretty much invaluable.
EDIT: I should mention, we are an alliance guild, and Belf Ret Pallies are capable of quite a bit more DPS.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
To address your points in order;
Yes, in large raids, Ret is very much meant as a buffing slot moreso than individual dps, but as a flat % damage increase, with very high dps raid members, their contribution is very significant. Is this not a better lot in raiding than as a practical joke?
Not to personally re-tread that hate filled path of darkness, but as very useful 5 man tanks and healers (barring massive group wide damage fights), I honestly don't mind them having a slightly less desirable grouping choice, or any hybrid for that matter. Ret is more viable solo and in groups than it has been in years, and there's always room for improvement, but as one of the overpopulated dps masses, my heart doesn't exactly bleed over having only 2 viable group specs (and 3 viable raid specs, and all 3 are viable group specs, if not for the fact that ret doesn't often shine as much in 5 mans). For progression content, most dps have 1-2 specs if that, and Ret Paladins get no more shit than any rogue that tries to zone into a 10/25 man as Subtlety. As much as it might suck not to be able to run a group with the spec you wish, at least there are other options open to get the gear/reputation you want. Most dps don't have that luxury.
Switching specs during combat for anything but DPS classes likely wouldn't be a big deal for most fights, as you can't currently change gear (aside from weapons) during combat. Swapping spec + equipping a shield or a new staff does not a tank or healer make. At least for most raids unless you vastly outgear them, in which case it's a fairly moot point anyway.
Customization? How does a druid spec'ing feral and resto in a 5 or 10 man dilute the class? They can do two jobs, but only one of them at a time. It's now easier to form groups and complete objectives on both the micro (individual) and macro (server) scale. I've PuG'd a LOT of instances over the years, and often hear "sorry, we don't need a X (tank, healer) we need a Y (healer, tank), and bluntly, I'm not spending gold just to do one instance. I'd happy swap spec/gear set, however.
Just because you have 2 specs available, doesn't mean you can do both jobs at the same time. So I spec my druid for tanking and healing. Does that mean I just need 4 dps for the group? No, it means I need 3 dps and a tank OR a healer, rather than being feral spec'd and needing a Healer. The group is now easier to form by an order of magnitude, quadruply so because of those 3 dps, one or more may well be a druid, shaman, priest or paladin who happens to be X/Resto-Holy spec'd. Now instead of forming groups based strictly on spec, they can practically just be built on the assumption that you can 'wildcard' in anything you're missing. Even better when the _____ (Tank/Healer) needs to go suddenly.
A change that keeps hybrids viable? VIABLE? Hybrid DPS and utility has gone up across the board with TBC. Shadow Priests, Enhancement/Elemental Shaman, Balance Druids, Ret Paladins, DPS Warriors and the like are no longer mere running jokes; they are often highly sought after for raids, even if most are merely given a "token raid slot", that is far more than many of them saw in Pre-TBC, AND that's with 15 less raid spots to squeeze them in! Make them any MORE viable and you WILL kill off the need to have 'dps' classes on board.
This very much seems to be a "Glass half empty / Glass half full" difference of opinion.
You (and others) see "Oh god, I'm going to have to spec Ret and either Holy or Prot, and will always be expected to play as Prot/Holy for instances / raids."
Whereas I (and others) see "Hooray! I can spec Ret / Prot on my Paladin and get into like EVERY GROUP EVER!" (given that I've solo healed every regular 5 man as either ret or prot while wearing healing gear).
Sure heroics and raids require more of the individual, but that's the idea, and that's where having two specs makes you MORE in demand, rather than less.
Yet another edit: apologies for repeated edits for content and whatnot here. Typed this out over a lengthy period at work while working on other things, and thus it's something of a mess. Please excuse any epic rambling or run-on sentences, or crimes against spelling or punctuation, particularly the comma.
That was especially the case for us with Onyxia....hell, I've killed it with several healers, the tank, and no dps...from 10% to 0%.
Yeah, you don't end up with those sort of fights much anymore. You have a few though that could work for though, like Supremus.
However, I missed out on doing several five mans as I was leveling my mage because I could never get a group together that had both a healer and a tank (I just got 70 a few days ago). My mage has never seen the inside of a Coilfang instance. I started up a bunch of groups and more than once tanked on my pally or healed on my priest just so the others could get it done. And it's cool that this will make finding groups easier (maybe), it'll also mean people will freak if I roll on a dps item while tanking if there's a rogue or warrior in the group.
To be honest, I'm actually okay with the idea of spec switching between two or three pre-designed specs that I can just go to an inn or whatever to switch. I don't think the sky will fall, although I DO think it'll mean I'll be tanking 5 man pugs if I want to run my pally, but there are worse things and I have 4 70s right now anyway. I just don't think it'll be all sunshine and lollipops like you seem to think.
PS. I heard that Silithids are being made tamable? Is this true? I said being able to tame a Silithid would be the one thing that would get me to play my hunter again and I never thought Blizzard would do it.
I think we all recognize that spec-swapping has some downsides. I just think the majority of us agree that the good outweighs the bad.
You're doing it wrong. If you are a warrior who wants to PVE, you are either prot or you are senior enough so that you can roll what ever the fuck spec you like and no one will call you on it. DPS warrs are not wanted to 5/10 mans unless they are running with friends. Prot warrs are not able to do anything productive outside of tanking.
This is a silly lie. Our DPS warrior was pretty much always #1 on damage. 2k DPS on trash, in T5? That's pretty damn impressive. For what it's worth, he's a gigantic, self-fellating cock, but amazing DPS regardless.
WWS please. 2k dps from a warrior in T5 content is impressive, less so if it's just counting multi-mob pulls where he can Sweeping Strike / Whirlwind to his hearts content with 2 dedicated healers keeping his essentially 'tanking' butt alive.
Unless he's in Sunwell gear, this would make him Gods Gift To Warriors, and you should begin trying to clone him right now.
http://www.wwsscoreboard.com/classplacingsaverage.php
An average T5 warrior should be doing around 1k dps on bosses. If he's doubling that, there's either something wrong, or something very, very right.
But now it's about ..... stuff.
GM: Rusty Chains (DH Ongoing)
And even in heroics, it works pretty well. Of course, the retard factor should be lower
Also getting a free flying mount, and clearing a good majority of Nagrand's Group quests in a couple hours last night killed my "This time, it's casual" stance. I wanna leave work right now and hit 70. Only two more levels only two more......
Dude. I PMed him a couple weeks ago asking if he had any screens of Damage Meters. He doesn't. He cleaned them off when he deleted WoW. I know you guys have no reason to believe me, and that's fine, but honestly, I wouldn't feel crazy telling you he's probably one of the best warriors in the game. The best. Dude was fucking amazing. I don't like him at all, but he was fucking amazing. He is busy playing beta right now, and I think his account is cancelled, but... I will see if maybe I can get him to log in for a Karazhan or something, assuming he can get into his account. Here's his armory, for the meantime, though his gear has (obviously) improved since T5 stuff.
EDIT: The really shitty part, is, I know I have damage meters with him on there, but I can't get to any of them, because they are on a HDD that took a shit. I haven't wiped it or anything, but I can't get into it, and don't know how to recover it.
Short Answer: maybe.
WTF BLIZZ ONLY TWO? What about if I want to go LOLSmite?
I put in a request for help at my guild's forum.
So far, I've gotten a screenshot of him doing 1450 DPS (meh), on a boss in Hyjal. Not sure what boss, not sure what gear. I know it was our early runs of MH, because we died on an early boss.
Oh: He's Remiel, sorry.
The whines will never end.
druids
And in response to both this argument, and the one regarding warriors. This is somewhere in BT, I think. I'm not 100% sure.
Warrior in first. Ret Pally second. Enh Shaman third. (Then Cat Drood, Rogue, MS/BF Warrior)