In other news, Death Race is a pretty sweet movie, however, one of the Prison Gaurds looks so much like Harper it scares me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83-stjseRMQ 1:47 into the video.
I'm pretty excited about this election, it will be the first federal election I get to vote in. I'm not sure who I will vote for, either the Liberals or Green, I'm in the middle of Alberta in a riding the conservatives have held for years though.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty excited about this election, it will be the first federal election I get to vote in. I'm not sure who I will vote for, either the Liberals or Green, I'm in the middle of Alberta in a riding the conservatives have held for years though.
Hey who knows, maybe your vote will result in a non-Conservative seat pickup and...I have to stop. I don't even believe my words.
I'm pretty excited about this election, it will be the first federal election I get to vote in. I'm not sure who I will vote for, either the Liberals or Green, I'm in the middle of Alberta in a riding the conservatives have held for years though.
Hey who knows, maybe your vote will result in a non-Conservative seat pickup and...I have to stop. I don't even believe my words.
Well, every vote gives that party some money, so it's not quite a wasted vote.
For those who want to know who their MP is, how to register to vote, etc, here's the Elections Canada website.
There will be short terms jobs available during the election, which might be attractive to some of you guys who are in school.
Also, for people who are away at school, you'll want to think about whether or not you want to vote in your home riding, or in the one your school is in. You might have to do a mail in ballot or something to vote for your home riding. Just something to consider.
For those who want to know who their MP is, how to register to vote, etc, here's the Elections Canada website.
There will be short terms jobs available during the election, which might be attractive to some of you guys who are in school.
Also, for people who are away at school, you'll want to think about whether or not you want to vote in your home riding, or in the one your school is in. You might have to do a mail in ballot or something to vote for your home riding. Just something to consider.
Jim Prentice is the MP for my hometown riding, I would be tempted to mail in a vote against him but I know it would do nothing :x
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
For those who want to know who their MP is, how to register to vote, etc, here's the Elections Canada website.
There will be short terms jobs available during the election, which might be attractive to some of you guys who are in school.
Also, for people who are away at school, you'll want to think about whether or not you want to vote in your home riding, or in the one your school is in. You might have to do a mail in ballot or something to vote for your home riding. Just something to consider.
Thanks for the link, and the nightmares I'm going to have tonight now that I know that Jay fucking Hill is going to be our MP for the next four years (or whatever.)
Seriously, I didn't even recognize any of the other names on the list of candidates in 2006. And Jay Hill is one of those slimy bastards who sends out shitty newsletters letting his constituents know that the C.R.A.P. is the only thing standing between them and surprise sex with a meth-addled young offender.
And by the by, the next time any of you guys have complaints about your bosses, keep this in mind. Stockwell Day is my boss. And he sends us encouraging emails.
It sucks.
Descendant X on
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
Living in Alberta and not in an Edmonton-based riding, I'm pretty sure my MP is going to be a Conservative after the election. I'll vote Green just so they get some cash monies.
For those who want to know who their MP is, how to register to vote, etc, here's the Elections Canada website.
Thanks for reminding me. Since I just moved, I'll have to get around to registering. Also, I'll have to learn about my riding's candidates, as soon as I figure out where I am.
I have no idea who to vote for. I'm an accountant and the conservatives have been okay with tax policy so far with cuts to the small business rate and pension income splitting. I would love to have full income splitting but whatever. I am going to do my homework this year. We have had a long time Liberal MP until the current Conservative guy so we will see.
Good thread by the way. I'm always guilty of wondering more about when this McCabe trade will happen compared to carbon taxes etc.
I'm going to read more of the thread later, but wanted to congratulate you on spewing forth the propaganda and stereotypes in the OP you soap dodging tree hugging hippy socialist parasite.
Honestly, I'm so sick of having to choose between:
The NDP who are beholden to the Ontario unions, especially the auto worker unions.
The Liberals who are completely useless, stalling on any actual improvements on the environment so long that Canada had to pull out of the Kyoto Accord because no progress had been made to meeting the objectives. Otherwise being beholden to the big business corporations.
The Conservatives, the actual party of the people, you know how they tried to limit the size of contributions by business's the Liberals screamed bloody murder because the Liberal base is all corporate donors. The current Conservatives pay lip service to the social conservatives with the topics of doing a federal referendum on Gay Marriage/Abortion. And while not looking at the polls I think the majority or at least plurality of the country supports both so I'm pretty sure that the longer they stall the less support there is to ban either, and the emptier the threat becomes.
I'm definately enjoying the current balancing of the budget and cutting spending, though I wouldnt mind funding for more social programs like retraining. Though with the all time low of unemployment nationwide, its not a huge issue. Except to the union run auto plants in Ontario, who refuse to get with the fucking times and start looking for other work. GM, Ford, etc have been in an economic slump for fucking ever, I dont know why these people so desperately claw at keeping their jobs there when I've seen plenty of industries scraping the barrels to find employees that are hard working and honest.
I don't know what makes me more nauseous, the idea that it's appropriate to hold public referendums on abortion and gay marriage, or the fact that people are now calling the Canadian Alliance a "party of the people" in an unironic fashion.
I'll vote either Green or NDP. I havn't voted federally from my current riding, honestly I have no idea who my MP is.
I lean toward Green far more than NDP. My goal for a long while has been to see them get a seat in parliament, their proverbial foot in the door as it were. I hadn't heard that they now have a seat, thats amazing. Hopefully it will (finally) insure them a spot in the debates. The Greens could do quite well this election. Canada has really, really taken to the whole environmentalist thing, at least superficially. Its green this green that, everywhere you go. Which is great, and probably gives the Greens a good boost, especially now that they have a good party leader in May.
I'll have to see what the status in my riding is. Its almost certainly Liberal or NDP right now. If its very strongly or very weakly NDP I'll probably vote Green. If it looks close then I'll seriously consider the NDP candidate.
First of all, fuck strategic voting. Vote for the party that best represents what you want the country to look like in the future. You hear about it every election. I don't understand why it's such an effective argument to people. People obviously don't feel that strongly about NDP principles (to use the most common example) if they are willing to forego them just to make sure the Liberals beat the Conservatives.
That said:
I voted for the NDP back in 2004, and what a clusterfuck of a mistake that was. I was very hopeful to hear something positive about proportional representation that session of parliament, the issue I voted on in that election. Layton was prety gung-ho about it on election night. But nothing ever came of it and I find him so conniving and self-serving now that I can't stand the party. I also find their environmental policies a bit wanting, and their idea of economic management doesn't cut it with me. Their website (I tune out any press the party gets these days) tells me they want softwood workers compensated, national child care, more health care spending, cheaper education... I mean, the list of what they would spend on is close to endless. Where do they propose the money for all that shit coming from? Not that I mean to call those things shit, they are laudable goals.
So I said fuck them and moved to another party.
In 2006 I voted for the Greens, and I will again this time. I don't care how close my riding is, that is the party that best represents what I want in the future. They are quite detailed in their policies and while they are often defined as a one-issue party, that's not right at all. Shifting taxation from income to consumption does make sense, as does a complete overhaul of the healthcare system. Preventative medicine (i.e. promoting active lifestyles and mandating certain unpleasant exams at given ages) is cheaper than our current system. They believe in equality across all denominations - but really, aren't we past that yet? A more studied approach to our energy policy would be a benefit as well as opposed to rubber-stamping, though that's more to do with Alberta provincial policies.
And finally, the issue of the leaders' debates. I don't know why the CBC/CTV/Global/etc are against including the Greens, but they seem to be. In the past they quoted the Bloc and Reform parties as precedents for participation (i.e. having an MP), which has now been met. This should be very interesting, and a shitstorm had better develop if they get shut out again.
Zero tolerance policies are almost invariably terrible.
One might say I have zero tolerance for them.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
There's really no argument besides "we don't want them in" at this point with regard to keeping the Greens out of the debates. They've got an MP, policies, and deserve to be there.
First of all, fuck strategic voting. Vote for the party that best represents what you want the country to look like in the future. You hear about it every election. I don't understand why it's such an effective argument to people. People obviously don't feel that strongly about NDP principles (to use the most common example) if they are willing to forego them just to make sure the Liberals beat the Conservatives.
It's not that they don't feel strongly about the NDP, it's that they feel more strongly about not-the-Conservatives.
Negative voting is an unavoidable side-effect of our electoral system. When two candidates are close, you'll want to make sure the one that represents you better among them wins, even if the candidate that represents you the best is a third candidate that's much farther behind.
I don't like it either, which is why I'm in favour of changing to a Single Transferable Vote system.
You know, I really hate the fact this election is going to cost us hundreds of millions of dollars and is likely to change precisely jack and shit in the power balance in parliament.
Also, Conservative MP's statements about fixed election dates, back when they were told to say they were a good thing. So, who's full of shit now?
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
You know, I really hate the fact this election is going to cost us hundreds of millions of dollars and is likely to change precisely jack and shit in the power balance in parliament.
Also, Conservative MP's statements about fixed election dates, back when they were told to say they were a good thing. So, who's full of shit now?
This is generally the result when you have 4 mediocre party leaders combined with years of a major corruption scandal whittling down people's faith in our MPs as well as booming economic ties. So long as the latter continues and the government of the day doesn't fuck things up, the general population couldn't be bothered to be interested in Canadian politics.
First of all, fuck strategic voting. Vote for the party that best represents what you want the country to look like in the future. You hear about it every election. I don't understand why it's such an effective argument to people. People obviously don't feel that strongly about NDP principles (to use the most common example) if they are willing to forego them just to make sure the Liberals beat the Conservatives.
It's not that they don't feel strongly about the NDP, it's that they feel more strongly about not-the-Conservatives.
Negative voting is an unavoidable side-effect of our electoral system. When two candidates are close, you'll want to make sure the one that represents you better among them wins, even if the candidate that represents you the best is a third candidate that's much farther behind.
I don't like it either, which is why I'm in favour of changing to a Single Transferable Vote system.
Me too. Or at least some voting system that isn't like ours. I don't really expect it to change though, I think most of the population would consider an alternative system too complicated.
You know, I really hate the fact this election is going to cost us hundreds of millions of dollars and is likely to change precisely jack and shit in the power balance in parliament.
Also, Conservative MP's statements about fixed election dates, back when they were told to say they were a good thing. So, who's full of shit now?
This is generally the result when you have 4 mediocre party leaders combined with years of a major corruption scandal whittling down people's faith in our MPs as well as booming economic ties. So long as the latter continues and the government of the day doesn't fuck things up, the general population couldn't be bothered to be interested in Canadian politics.
Exactly, so whats the point ? I mean, the odds of the Conservatives getting a majority don't look good, so I don't see why they have a hard on for an election.
First of all, fuck strategic voting. Vote for the party that best represents what you want the country to look like in the future. You hear about it every election. I don't understand why it's such an effective argument to people. People obviously don't feel that strongly about NDP principles (to use the most common example) if they are willing to forego them just to make sure the Liberals beat the Conservatives.
It's not that they don't feel strongly about the NDP, it's that they feel more strongly about not-the-Conservatives.
Negative voting is an unavoidable side-effect of our electoral system. When two candidates are close, you'll want to make sure the one that represents you better among them wins, even if the candidate that represents you the best is a third candidate that's much farther behind.
I don't like it either, which is why I'm in favour of changing to a Single Transferable Vote system.
Me too. Or at least some voting system that isn't like ours. I don't really expect it to change though, I think most of the population would consider an alternative system too complicated.
In 2004 we had a referendum on STV in BC and we came within 2.3% of adopting it, just short of 60%. There'll be another one in 2009. I think we'd have to see a bunch of the provinces adopt it before it became a national thing. We'd likely have to amend the constitution to change the national system, and we all know what a clusterfuck trying to change the constitution can be.
I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
I guess the issue with that is, those countries are used to running that way. We still have (some) elements of partisan politics, meaning that while we might end up in minority governments for a good stretch, there's no guarantee they'll function like they should but instead will be paralyzed with bickering parties that won't compromise on anything.
In 2004 we had a referendum on STV in BC and we came within 2.3% of adopting it, just short of 60%. There'll be another one in 2009. I think we'd have to see a bunch of the provinces adopt it before it became a national thing. We'd likely have to amend the constitution to change the national system, and we all know what a clusterfuck trying to change the constitution can be.
Wasn't the BC system not straight-up STV but in fact some weird weighted probabilistic proportional system that required a B.A. in math to fully understand?
Because that's not what I want.
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physi_marcPositron TrackerIn a nutshellRegistered Userregular
Exactly, so whats the point ? I mean, the odds of the Conservatives getting a majority don't look good, so I don't see why they have a hard on for an election.
I've read an editorial that said that the Conservatives just want an election to destabilize even more the Liberals. Let's face it, if the Conservatives form another minority government (or worse for the Liberals, a majority), Stéphane Dion is out and the Liberals go into another leadership race. This is probably what the Conservatives are hoping for.
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I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
I think you're misunderstanding the result of that referendum. From the people I talked to on the "no" side, they weren't opposing it out of satisfaction with the current system, but rather because of what they perceived as several blatant, major flaws in the proposed system. In short, they wanted change, but the one that was proposed was too bad to change for.
I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
The problem with this system is that it gives smaller parties outsize representation in the national government, so that the Quebec secessionists, greens, and the NDP gain more power, along with whatever fringe groups get organized under this system once people realize that they can get their voices heard with fewer votes than before.
I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
The problem with this system is that it gives smaller parties outsize representation in the national government, so that the Quebec secessionists, greens, and the NDP gain more power, along with whatever fringe groups get organized under this system once people realize that they can get their voices heard with fewer votes than before.
The thing I like about that system is that it while the major parties (liberals, conservatives) will still keep most of the power, thus preventing the government becoming run by a pool of small extreme left/right parties, it will still allow smaller parties to make it into office and have an impact on government. This ensures that more people's views will be represented in the laws the government makes.
Richy: You are probably right, I don't remember the details about the referendum, just that it got smacked down pretty hard.
Exactly, so whats the point ? I mean, the odds of the Conservatives getting a majority don't look good, so I don't see why they have a hard on for an election.
See, this I don't get either. Dion is good for the conservatives. I guess the short term destabilization of the Liberals would be good for the Cons, but its probably better just to leave Dion in place instead of risking the Liberals finding someone the nation might actually care about to lead them.
I suppose we could see both the Liberals and the NDP look for new leadership after this election.
Wasn't the BC system not straight-up STV but in fact some weird weighted probabilistic proportional system that required a B.A. in math to fully understand?
Wasn't the BC system not straight-up STV but in fact some weird weighted probabilistic proportional system that required a B.A. in math to fully understand?
Ha, I can even provide animated explanations: Click
That is not straight-up STV! It's like they went out of their way to make it complicated. Weighted redistribution of the winner's vote? WTF? And look, I don't care if it's in fun cartoon form, anytime you need mathematical formulas to explain even a fictional simplified example election, you're doing it wrong.
Wasn't the BC system not straight-up STV but in fact some weird weighted probabilistic proportional system that required a B.A. in math to fully understand?
Ha, I can even provide animated explanations: Click
That is not straight-up STV! It's like they went out of their way to make it complicated. Weighted redistribution of the winner's vote? WTF? And look, I don't care if it's in fun cartoon form, anytime you need mathematical formulas to explain even a fictional simplified example election, you're doing it wrong.
Look, if it wasn't weird and complicated, it wouldn't be BC politics. We're the people who elected a dude named Amor De Cosmos as Premier. :P
I should pipe in that I, like several other people have said, am hoping for a minority government. Liberal or Conservative, I guess I'd perfer Liberal but honestly I doubt I would notice any difference between them.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
The problem with this system is that it gives smaller parties outsize representation in the national government, so that the Quebec secessionists, greens, and the NDP gain more power, along with whatever fringe groups get organized under this system once people realize that they can get their voices heard with fewer votes than before.
Huh, that's exactly what I like about that system. The big parties are just monolithic forces with the sole purpose of insuring their own survival. If you had a slew of smaller parties mixed in, you'd get the monoliths still playing the major role, but you'd really get a good idea of what Canadians actually want from the smaller grassroots parties. Sure you'd get the nut job parties in there as well, but hey, this is supposedly a democracy we're talking about here. More people having a voice is definitely a good thing.
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While I'm really not a conservative under any definition at all, I LOVE Joe Clark. Seriously, he's just so awesome.
Hey who knows, maybe your vote will result in a non-Conservative seat pickup and...I have to stop. I don't even believe my words.
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Well, every vote gives that party some money, so it's not quite a wasted vote.
There will be short terms jobs available during the election, which might be attractive to some of you guys who are in school.
Also, for people who are away at school, you'll want to think about whether or not you want to vote in your home riding, or in the one your school is in. You might have to do a mail in ballot or something to vote for your home riding. Just something to consider.
Jim Prentice is the MP for my hometown riding, I would be tempted to mail in a vote against him but I know it would do nothing :x
Thanks for the link, and the nightmares I'm going to have tonight now that I know that Jay fucking Hill is going to be our MP for the next four years (or whatever.)
Seriously, I didn't even recognize any of the other names on the list of candidates in 2006. And Jay Hill is one of those slimy bastards who sends out shitty newsletters letting his constituents know that the C.R.A.P. is the only thing standing between them and surprise sex with a meth-addled young offender.
And by the by, the next time any of you guys have complaints about your bosses, keep this in mind. Stockwell Day is my boss. And he sends us encouraging emails.
It sucks.
Good thread by the way. I'm always guilty of wondering more about when this McCabe trade will happen compared to carbon taxes etc.
MWO: Adamski
The NDP who are beholden to the Ontario unions, especially the auto worker unions.
The Liberals who are completely useless, stalling on any actual improvements on the environment so long that Canada had to pull out of the Kyoto Accord because no progress had been made to meeting the objectives. Otherwise being beholden to the big business corporations.
The Conservatives, the actual party of the people, you know how they tried to limit the size of contributions by business's the Liberals screamed bloody murder because the Liberal base is all corporate donors. The current Conservatives pay lip service to the social conservatives with the topics of doing a federal referendum on Gay Marriage/Abortion. And while not looking at the polls I think the majority or at least plurality of the country supports both so I'm pretty sure that the longer they stall the less support there is to ban either, and the emptier the threat becomes.
I'm definately enjoying the current balancing of the budget and cutting spending, though I wouldnt mind funding for more social programs like retraining. Though with the all time low of unemployment nationwide, its not a huge issue. Except to the union run auto plants in Ontario, who refuse to get with the fucking times and start looking for other work. GM, Ford, etc have been in an economic slump for fucking ever, I dont know why these people so desperately claw at keeping their jobs there when I've seen plenty of industries scraping the barrels to find employees that are hard working and honest.
MWO: Adamski
I finally got a chance to watch the whole Conservative ad that has been playing on TV, god thats a bad ad.
"I like Harper because he has young kids"
I lean toward Green far more than NDP. My goal for a long while has been to see them get a seat in parliament, their proverbial foot in the door as it were. I hadn't heard that they now have a seat, thats amazing. Hopefully it will (finally) insure them a spot in the debates. The Greens could do quite well this election. Canada has really, really taken to the whole environmentalist thing, at least superficially. Its green this green that, everywhere you go. Which is great, and probably gives the Greens a good boost, especially now that they have a good party leader in May.
I'll have to see what the status in my riding is. Its almost certainly Liberal or NDP right now. If its very strongly or very weakly NDP I'll probably vote Green. If it looks close then I'll seriously consider the NDP candidate.
That said:
I voted for the NDP back in 2004, and what a clusterfuck of a mistake that was. I was very hopeful to hear something positive about proportional representation that session of parliament, the issue I voted on in that election. Layton was prety gung-ho about it on election night. But nothing ever came of it and I find him so conniving and self-serving now that I can't stand the party. I also find their environmental policies a bit wanting, and their idea of economic management doesn't cut it with me. Their website (I tune out any press the party gets these days) tells me they want softwood workers compensated, national child care, more health care spending, cheaper education... I mean, the list of what they would spend on is close to endless. Where do they propose the money for all that shit coming from? Not that I mean to call those things shit, they are laudable goals.
So I said fuck them and moved to another party.
In 2006 I voted for the Greens, and I will again this time. I don't care how close my riding is, that is the party that best represents what I want in the future. They are quite detailed in their policies and while they are often defined as a one-issue party, that's not right at all. Shifting taxation from income to consumption does make sense, as does a complete overhaul of the healthcare system. Preventative medicine (i.e. promoting active lifestyles and mandating certain unpleasant exams at given ages) is cheaper than our current system. They believe in equality across all denominations - but really, aren't we past that yet? A more studied approach to our energy policy would be a benefit as well as opposed to rubber-stamping, though that's more to do with Alberta provincial policies.
And finally, the issue of the leaders' debates. I don't know why the CBC/CTV/Global/etc are against including the Greens, but they seem to be. In the past they quoted the Bloc and Reform parties as precedents for participation (i.e. having an MP), which has now been met. This should be very interesting, and a shitstorm had better develop if they get shut out again.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080902.wgreens02/BNStory/National/home
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Negative voting is an unavoidable side-effect of our electoral system. When two candidates are close, you'll want to make sure the one that represents you better among them wins, even if the candidate that represents you the best is a third candidate that's much farther behind.
I don't like it either, which is why I'm in favour of changing to a Single Transferable Vote system.
Also, Conservative MP's statements about fixed election dates, back when they were told to say they were a good thing. So, who's full of shit now?
This is generally the result when you have 4 mediocre party leaders combined with years of a major corruption scandal whittling down people's faith in our MPs as well as booming economic ties. So long as the latter continues and the government of the day doesn't fuck things up, the general population couldn't be bothered to be interested in Canadian politics.
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Me too. Or at least some voting system that isn't like ours. I don't really expect it to change though, I think most of the population would consider an alternative system too complicated.
Exactly, so whats the point ? I mean, the odds of the Conservatives getting a majority don't look good, so I don't see why they have a hard on for an election.
In 2004 we had a referendum on STV in BC and we came within 2.3% of adopting it, just short of 60%. There'll be another one in 2009. I think we'd have to see a bunch of the provinces adopt it before it became a national thing. We'd likely have to amend the constitution to change the national system, and we all know what a clusterfuck trying to change the constitution can be.
I think the system should be set up in a way that makes minority governments the norm. Several nations, such as Germany and Israel, have systems like this. Basically they have a bunch of small parties. None of them alone can win the election. So when people cast their votes, it forces the parties to bargain and collaborate with each other, even though they may have (radically) different policies. It generally prevents a single group from taking power and doing bad things with it, since they're always accountable. And it keeps politics generally more civilized and less polarized. Parties aren't going to get very ugly in condemning each other if there is a chance they'll have to work together in the future.
Currently DMing: None
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[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Because that's not what I want.
I've read an editorial that said that the Conservatives just want an election to destabilize even more the Liberals. Let's face it, if the Conservatives form another minority government (or worse for the Liberals, a majority), Stéphane Dion is out and the Liberals go into another leadership race. This is probably what the Conservatives are hoping for.
Nintendo Network ID: PhysiMarc
This is the system I want Canada to go to as well, first past the post voting systems don't work for countries with several strong federal parties, all to often the winning party/candidate does not get the popular vote. I would love to see us move toward a proportional representational system that is used in places like Sweden. However, if that referendum in Ontario is any indication Canadians do not want to move that way.
The problem with this system is that it gives smaller parties outsize representation in the national government, so that the Quebec secessionists, greens, and the NDP gain more power, along with whatever fringe groups get organized under this system once people realize that they can get their voices heard with fewer votes than before.
The thing I like about that system is that it while the major parties (liberals, conservatives) will still keep most of the power, thus preventing the government becoming run by a pool of small extreme left/right parties, it will still allow smaller parties to make it into office and have an impact on government. This ensures that more people's views will be represented in the laws the government makes.
Richy: You are probably right, I don't remember the details about the referendum, just that it got smacked down pretty hard.
That's adorable
But seriously, thanks for this thread. I'm learning a lot.
See, this I don't get either. Dion is good for the conservatives. I guess the short term destabilization of the Liberals would be good for the Cons, but its probably better just to leave Dion in place instead of risking the Liberals finding someone the nation might actually care about to lead them.
I suppose we could see both the Liberals and the NDP look for new leadership after this election.
BC STV
Ha, I can even provide animated explanations: Click
Look, if it wasn't weird and complicated, it wouldn't be BC politics. We're the people who elected a dude named Amor De Cosmos as Premier. :P
That's really, really fucked up.
Huh, that's exactly what I like about that system. The big parties are just monolithic forces with the sole purpose of insuring their own survival. If you had a slew of smaller parties mixed in, you'd get the monoliths still playing the major role, but you'd really get a good idea of what Canadians actually want from the smaller grassroots parties. Sure you'd get the nut job parties in there as well, but hey, this is supposedly a democracy we're talking about here. More people having a voice is definitely a good thing.