I was in the thread where that post came from chatting with Ghostcrawler. As it stands now, they are talking about lengthening the amount of time that Paladins suffer the -50% healing during Divine Plea.....
I don't think they know what the hell to do, really.
It's almost like "if we buff Holy too much more, Paladins will become uber healing gods". "But if we don't change this stuff over in Ret, they will still be uber healing gods." "But they're uber healing gods right now." "I'm so confused."
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
Screw pot shenanigans, let's just talk about ret again.
Or holy.
Because holy looks pretty tits too, ya know
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Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I tried taking out uvuros or whatever his name is in SMV, and he stomped me pretty bad. But that was when I was 70 and didn't have BoS, I'm going to try again! (i also wasn't using light, which could have been the problem)
That's the funny thing. Being a Holy Paladin, I could always survive against a lot of crap, so long as it didn't interrupt me, or MS me for too much. I always had to have someone else to do the DPS though, because I couldn't both heal myself, and kill the mob(s).
That is not the case at ALL now.
Took a Ret into Ony with me on Murmer. We had her dead in about.....13-15min. Roughly. Might have been 12-14.
I tried taking out uvuros or whatever his name is in SMV, and he stomped me pretty bad. But that was when I was 70 and didn't have BoS, I'm going to try again! (i also wasn't using light, which could have been the problem)
When you see him getting ready to breath flame, switch your aura real quickly to FR aura. It's not going to be a huge chance to resist but it can be helpful.
I was in the thread where that post came from chatting with Ghostcrawler. As it stands now, they are talking about lengthening the amount of time that Paladins suffer the -50% healing during Divine Plea.....
I don't think they know what the hell to do, really.
It's almost like "if we buff Holy too much more, Paladins will become uber healing gods". "But if we don't change this stuff over in Ret, they will still be uber healing gods." "But they're uber healing gods right now." "I'm so confused."
Seriously, I don't think they know what to do.
I seriously hope they just leave Judgement of the Wise alone. I'd be fine with them moving it deeper into the Ret tree, but basically that talent alone makes or breaks the Ret Tree. Same with Art of War.
I seriously hope they just leave Judgement of the Wise alone. I'd be fine with them moving it deeper into the Ret tree, but basically that talent alone makes or breaks the Ret Tree. Same with Art of War.
As do I. I hope it's a combonation of moving JotW down into the 40-point Ret range, and then adding 1-2 lil goodies into Deep Holy that make it attractive to spec.
As it stands now, there's absolutly no reason to go any deeper than 37 points into Holy, when I'm getting 22-23% of my mana pool back everytime I judge from Ret. I've tested it at great length, using both the Test Dummies for range/spam, as well as live tests during instance/raid healing and PvP. Chain-casting Max Rank Holy Lights that crit in the 13k range is like a walk in the park. That's high-end crap, al la Brutallus, that you would normally NEVER do. Divine Favor a Holy Shock/insta cast HL for my "ohshit" buttons. Crappy PvP gear that has shit gems/enchants, and nowhere NEAR the 226 +haste/30% Holy Crit/120unbuffed Mp5 that I normally rock. People keep saying that you'll spend too many GCDs judging and not healing. Those people don't cast Holy Lights at 1.75 seconds a cast.
It's just like the Illumination nerf. No one fully understood what we were capable of as healers, until we broke into SSC/TK, and starting getting the insane +crit gear.
I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?
I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?
You don't judge a lot as a holy pally now because you don't want to be that close to the mob. Now that the range has increased and CS no longer refreshes them, I'd assume you'll be judging quite a bit.
Another weird change I noticed last night that kind of sucks, hitting your enemy no longer automatically refreshes the judgement on them, so for like things like Judgement of Justice, you have to keep re-applying it.
I'm hoping they will, every other spec has an 11pt talent, right? Even Balance which also has a new ability in the first tier, or had depending on whether the beta/PTR or live are the present and the other is the future/past.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
This will probably sound newbish of me, but I'm confused. Are you talking about a talent that requires 11 points in the tree? or that need 11 points in that one talent? Cause I see neither of those in any class tree.
The former. Examples of 11pt talents for reference: Piercing Howl (Warrior, fury), Last Stand (Warrior, prot), Icy Veins (Mage, frost), Seal of Command (Pala, ret), etc.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
This will probably sound newbish of me, but I'm confused. Are you talking about a talent that requires 11 points in the tree? or that need 11 points in that one talent? Cause I see neither of those in any class tree.
It means a talent that requires exactly 11 points to get, such as Seal of Command, Aura Mastery or the current live version of Blessing of Kings.
I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?
Quite often, actually. I mean seriously. Are you REALLY mashing the crap outta' your healing buttons every second of a fight? If you are, you're probably running with a tank that should probably re-evaluate their gear a bit, or you're running with stupid DPS that can't focus-fire or watch their threat. There are a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is. OPTIMALLY, you should be able to judge at least every other time. At least.
Triggering a Global Cooldown is nowhere NEAR the end of the world, and I don't understand why so many people on the forums bring that up in the debate. Nothing against you, Pierce. If I'm thinking about judging, it's because my target is at full health, and isn't going to die in the time it takes me to judge and wind up another heal. I'm not going to stop and judge a mob, when the tank or another person is at like 20% health. That's called bad healing. People are also forgetting the fact that we're going to be getting a LOT of instant Holy Lights. Holy Shock crits, a lot. You are perfectly capable of judging a target, and then dropping that instant cast right after.
I think people also underestimate how much 10 yards really is. If I stand at exactly 10 yards on RoS in Black Temple, not only can I not be Fixated in P1, but I'm also perfectly posistioned to do my job. There's a stationary fight for you. Felmyst is crazy, but I can promise you that I won't be OOM by the time she takes off. Guess what? I can have a completely full mana bar, in the time it takes to kill the P2 skeles off. Judge the skeles, in-between healing your Prot Paladin, and running from Deep Breaths.
Oh don't worry I didn't take any of that as something against me. Like I said, I've never healed. So I don't know how it really works. I was just thinking that a lot of encounter seem to inflict AOE damage and that you'd be spending time on targets other than just the tank.
I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Oh don't worry I didn't take any of that as something against me. Like I said, I've never healed. So I don't know how it really works. I was just thinking that a lot of encounter seem to inflict AOE damage and that you'd be spending time on targets other than just the tank.
Generally you're not going to see much Paladin spot healing. Our toolkit isn't well suited for that when compared to Shamans and Priests. You're mostly going to see Paladins assigned to tank healing.
I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.
I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.
That all sounds well and good, but the whole idea only stands if they don't move JotWise down a tier.
I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.
That all sounds well and good, but the whole idea only stands if they don't move JotWise down a tier.
Judgements of the Wise doesn't factor into it one bit since you can't get it when you go deep Holy for the Judgement talents there.
Isn't JoTW supposed to be a raid wide buff or is it strictly a party only type thing. Because putting a retadin in that group for some mana regen isn't a bad idea.
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I was in the thread where that post came from chatting with Ghostcrawler. As it stands now, they are talking about lengthening the amount of time that Paladins suffer the -50% healing during Divine Plea.....
I don't think they know what the hell to do, really.
It's almost like "if we buff Holy too much more, Paladins will become uber healing gods". "But if we don't change this stuff over in Ret, they will still be uber healing gods." "But they're uber healing gods right now." "I'm so confused."
Seriously, I don't think they know what to do.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Or holy.
Because holy looks pretty tits too, ya know
EDIT: What should I try to solo tonight?
What the fuck happened to Munkus? GIVE HIM BACK!
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
That is not the case at ALL now.
Took a Ret into Ony with me on Murmer. We had her dead in about.....13-15min. Roughly. Might have been 12-14.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
He's the dog right? Breaths flames?
When you see him getting ready to breath flame, switch your aura real quickly to FR aura. It's not going to be a huge chance to resist but it can be helpful.
Ultimate double Holy Shield / Shield of Righteousness combo for the win!
I seriously hope they just leave Judgement of the Wise alone. I'd be fine with them moving it deeper into the Ret tree, but basically that talent alone makes or breaks the Ret Tree. Same with Art of War.
As do I. I hope it's a combonation of moving JotW down into the 40-point Ret range, and then adding 1-2 lil goodies into Deep Holy that make it attractive to spec.
As it stands now, there's absolutly no reason to go any deeper than 37 points into Holy, when I'm getting 22-23% of my mana pool back everytime I judge from Ret. I've tested it at great length, using both the Test Dummies for range/spam, as well as live tests during instance/raid healing and PvP. Chain-casting Max Rank Holy Lights that crit in the 13k range is like a walk in the park. That's high-end crap, al la Brutallus, that you would normally NEVER do. Divine Favor a Holy Shock/insta cast HL for my "ohshit" buttons. Crappy PvP gear that has shit gems/enchants, and nowhere NEAR the 226 +haste/30% Holy Crit/120unbuffed Mp5 that I normally rock. People keep saying that you'll spend too many GCDs judging and not healing. Those people don't cast Holy Lights at 1.75 seconds a cast.
It's just like the Illumination nerf. No one fully understood what we were capable of as healers, until we broke into SSC/TK, and starting getting the insane +crit gear.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
edit: Bleh, wrong thread.
You don't judge a lot as a holy pally now because you don't want to be that close to the mob. Now that the range has increased and CS no longer refreshes them, I'd assume you'll be judging quite a bit.
Oh well, small price to pay.
So hoping prot will get an 11pt talent in the new build today!
What makes you say this?
The first bit because Holy Paladins get 10% spell haste for 30secs from Judging, and Prot/Ret will use it on every cooldown.
The second bit because I'm interested to see what they'll come up with.
Sorry, what I meant was, what makes you think they're adding a new talent?
Because otherwise Protadins will be the only spec without an 11 point talent.
It means a talent that requires exactly 11 points to get, such as Seal of Command, Aura Mastery or the current live version of Blessing of Kings.
Hunter example: Aspect Mastery, Aimed Shot, Trap Mastery
Priest Example: Inner Focus, Desperate Prayer, Mind Flay
Do you get it now?
I never noticed that was a standard with all classes.
Quite often, actually. I mean seriously. Are you REALLY mashing the crap outta' your healing buttons every second of a fight? If you are, you're probably running with a tank that should probably re-evaluate their gear a bit, or you're running with stupid DPS that can't focus-fire or watch their threat. There are a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is. OPTIMALLY, you should be able to judge at least every other time. At least.
Triggering a Global Cooldown is nowhere NEAR the end of the world, and I don't understand why so many people on the forums bring that up in the debate. Nothing against you, Pierce. If I'm thinking about judging, it's because my target is at full health, and isn't going to die in the time it takes me to judge and wind up another heal. I'm not going to stop and judge a mob, when the tank or another person is at like 20% health. That's called bad healing. People are also forgetting the fact that we're going to be getting a LOT of instant Holy Lights. Holy Shock crits, a lot. You are perfectly capable of judging a target, and then dropping that instant cast right after.
I think people also underestimate how much 10 yards really is. If I stand at exactly 10 yards on RoS in Black Temple, not only can I not be Fixated in P1, but I'm also perfectly posistioned to do my job. There's a stationary fight for you. Felmyst is crazy, but I can promise you that I won't be OOM by the time she takes off. Guess what? I can have a completely full mana bar, in the time it takes to kill the P2 skeles off. Judge the skeles, in-between healing your Prot Paladin, and running from Deep Breaths.
First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
"Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
Generally you're not going to see much Paladin spot healing. Our toolkit isn't well suited for that when compared to Shamans and Priests. You're mostly going to see Paladins assigned to tank healing.
Well that's cool.
That all sounds well and good, but the whole idea only stands if they don't move JotWise down a tier.
Judgements of the Wise doesn't factor into it one bit since you can't get it when you go deep Holy for the Judgement talents there.