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[WAR] Healer Archetypes: You are a hat.

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Posts

  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    Zealots are invincible! I just kited a BW, WH, and a WP for about 5 minutes, stopping every now and then for /wave or /laugh. It's the ultimate aggro holder against people.

    Wonder if, as a Shammy, I'll be able to ever do that.

    I've done that many times.


    Also real shamans spec green.

    Unknown User on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    admanb wrote: »
    Neva wrote: »
    nevaf005xv8.jpg

    I don't wanna leave the Tier 1 pvp! Hope zealots are still bad ass in the upper levels.

    Fuck fucking zealots in their goddamn heal spamming asses those motherfucking--

    Yeah, they're still good.
    So

    What the fuck is up with the Warrior Priest? Honestly. I'm Rank 7, and my heals are pretty pathetic, and my melee damage is pretty much nonexistant (look at my huge hammer! Look how I hit unarmored enemies for twenty damage!)

    Why do you (and so many other people) expect to be able to judge a class before they even hit rank 10? For god's sake, in one level you're going to get the most beautiful melee healing ability in the game and a massive morale insta-heal. There's so much joy in your future, and you aren't even looking for it.

    If I thought that way I would've deleted my Swordmaster right after I cracked tier 1


    I judge the class before Rank 10 because it takes forever to level to rank 10 in the first place, and I have to suffer through suck all the way there?

    I mean, believe it or not, I'd like to have fun for all 40 ranks, not just the last thirty (or twenty, or ten)

    I have this problem too and it makes me wish I had spent more time testing things throughout beta instead of playing WOW and thinking I'd get around to playing WAR beta more "eventually." It's not a WAR problem, it's an MMO problem, of course... But really it's so frustrating, I know I want to play a healer but I don't want to spend hours and hours leveling four different classes or whatever just to see which one I like at rank 20+. I wish they could give the lower levels more of the feel of later levels somehow.

    That said people seem happy with zealots here so I hope I made the right guess. I tried a warrior priest for a couple levels last night but I found that I ran out of righteous fury (?) so quickly and it was annoying. Though the DPS-to-heal mechanic is interesting I think I'd find it frustrating in the end when I feel the most useful just healing if I'm on a healing class.

    riz on
    Organichu wrote:
    she's some sort of malevolent creature who bores through this world into the next using hatred and suffering as her fuel
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Basically, there is no CastSpell function in the WAR API like there is in WoW. This means no Descursive style mods. Though, you could make a mod that lists every group member with an effect you are able to dispel, and then allow mouse ever casting from that list. But no "just press this buttan to remove any bad effects from anyone within range. Press buttan" type stuff.

    There is, however, a mod that automatically targets every 5-15 seconds the best target to heal in your point of view.

    I see no reason why they couldn't to something similar with dispells. Just add a sound effect too, to let you know, and when you hear one sound, hit 1, another one, hit 2, etc etc.

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    riz wrote: »
    I have this problem too and it makes me wish I had spent more time testing things throughout beta instead of playing WOW and thinking I'd get around to playing WAR beta more "eventually." It's not a WAR problem, it's an MMO problem, of course...

    I think it is a WAR problem, since this game definitely doesn't feel catered to players new to MMOs. PvP itself is tougher than PvE, and the game's crafting system and UI is also more complex than I would consider normal.

    I think I could easily be given 5 or 6 abilities at level 1, and not have a problem using them when appropriate. I mean, WoW of all things, starts you off with more abilities, and seems to me to give you more abilities over the next hour or two than WAR does.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    KiTA wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Basically, there is no CastSpell function in the WAR API like there is in WoW. This means no Descursive style mods. Though, you could make a mod that lists every group member with an effect you are able to dispel, and then allow mouse ever casting from that list. But no "just press this buttan to remove any bad effects from anyone within range. Press buttan" type stuff.

    There is, however, a mod that automatically targets every 5-15 seconds the best target to heal in your point of view.

    I see no reason why they couldn't to something similar with dispells. Just add a sound effect too, to let you know, and when you hear one sound, hit 1, another one, hit 2, etc etc.

    Which seems to be the way most mods are going these days, just doing targeting tricks. I wonder how long it will be until Mythic starts nerfing the targeting interface that scripts get.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Man, my WP has DoK envy. Seriously, I want to trade a lot of the offensive tactics and morales. The WP is a great little class, but half the skills seem like they were supposed to become a supplication bot but someone decided that wasn't fun, then forgot to redo the masteries. Sigmar's Shield is still one of the worst healing skills around (there's no way to fuel it, and when DPS and healing were increased a while back the healing value of it never went up, and then they axed the tactic that at least made it a damage shield.)

    kildy on
  • ghost_master2000ghost_master2000 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    KiTA wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Basically, there is no CastSpell function in the WAR API like there is in WoW. This means no Descursive style mods. Though, you could make a mod that lists every group member with an effect you are able to dispel, and then allow mouse ever casting from that list. But no "just press this buttan to remove any bad effects from anyone within range. Press buttan" type stuff.

    There is, however, a mod that automatically targets every 5-15 seconds the best target to heal in your point of view.

    I see no reason why they couldn't to something similar with dispells. Just add a sound effect too, to let you know, and when you hear one sound, hit 1, another one, hit 2, etc etc.

    Which seems to be the way most mods are going these days, just doing targeting tricks. I wonder how long it will be until Mythic starts nerfing the targeting interface that scripts get.

    yeah that seems a little cheap. I think there needs to be a limit. At least you can't make addons cast things or you could literally make a heal bot.

    I mean it almost feels like cheating using Squared to target people for heals, I just look at a square thats not full, click, then cast heals. I went from 13k healing in a scenario to 30-40k healing. if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to target someone in a big group of enemies I probably wouldn't use it.

    ghost_master2000 on
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    How similar or different are DoKs and WPs? Like right off the bat, I can see that one of the first damage abilities they both get is similar, but the WP gets a higher strength buff, while the DoK has a lower buff, but debuffs the opponent's strength. Is this a trend that continues?

    Vaguely. In the high end, a WP can't touch a DoK's offense (crit deals 99 damage over 9s vs crit stops healing.. hrm.), while a DoK can't touch a WP's defense (parry buff!)

    Overall, DoKs are just flat out better by a small margin, however. It's been a looooooong running series of beta thread locks. Mostly it's tied up in Covenants being outright better than Prayers in every possible respect.

    kildy on
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited September 2008
    DoKs are massively defensive at 40 specced full sacrifice. At the end of beta I was easily able to tank 8 or 9 champions and solo them all down without breaking a sweat.


    DoKs are better than WPs because they dual wield, and many of their abilities require them to crit (or hit in general) to be activated. It is well known that hitting something twice will give you a better chance to crit (or activate the ability) than hitting something once.

    Unknown User on
  • RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    riz wrote: »
    That said people seem happy with zealots here so I hope I made the right guess. I tried a warrior priest for a couple levels last night but I found that I ran out of righteous fury (?) so quickly and it was annoying. Though the DPS-to-heal mechanic is interesting I think I'd find it frustrating in the end when I feel the most useful just healing if I'm on a healing class.

    As a zealot, I've been able to outperform every other healer I've ever come across by a giant margin. Whether that's due to zealots being good or everybody else who plays this game sucking really badly, I can't really say. I can say that the mastery trees are a bit confused, but that doesn't seem to have a huge effect on my healing done, since the two most effective heals are both in the same tree, and it does beef up my offensive abilities a tiny bit by having mixed abilities in one tree.

    However, I just picked up ritual of innervation, and holy shit is that the best ability ever. It's like... windfury that works on everybody. Even if shaman have a slightly beefier healing tree, that one ritual makes the zealot class amazing for group play.

    So if you go zealot, you won't regret it. (Unless they nerf innervate.)

    (Please don't take mah bucket mythic.)

    Ryokaze on
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zealots and RP's should be able to easily out heal anyone on their respective sides, as healing is their primary goal.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • KiTAKiTA Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    robothero wrote: »
    Also real shamans spec green.

    Why?

    KiTA on
    time to crash, the dawn is up, the sun gleems out glorious ps4 sunbeams and i can trade those sunbeams and do whatever i want with them.
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    As long as DoKs and WPs have good non-healing buffs and debuffs, I don't see that it would matter so much if the Zealots and RPs put out a lot more straight-up healing.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited September 2008
    You'z Squishy and 'ere We Go Again is enough reason for me.

    Unknown User on
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Septus wrote: »
    As long as DoKs and WPs have good non-healing buffs and debuffs, I don't see that it would matter so much if the Zealots and RPs put out a lot more straight-up healing.

    DoKs and WPs don't really have a role as Buffers (though I guess a grace spec WP is pretty unique for buffs), they're kind of roving AE HoTs with a decent spike heal. They disable pretty well, but mostly it's about fluid shifts between healing and supporting the melee line.

    Mark style mechanics from RPs and Zealots are far better buffs.

    kildy on
  • Gerbil2309Gerbil2309 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Well, i think the choice of covenant to use for a Disciple of Khaine is quite important in terms of providing buffs for the group. I'm torture specced atm, so my choice is pretty much always Covenant of Celerity, because who doesn't love giving the group a proc that does 300ish damage and 60% speed reduction over 10 seconds.

    Has there been much discussion of the disciple's sacrifice tree? Because to me it seems fairly undesirable compared to torture and dark rites.

    Gerbil2309 on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Gerbil2309 wrote: »
    Well, i think the choice of covenant to use for a Disciple of Khaine is quite important in terms of providing buffs for the group. I'm torture specced atm, so my choice is pretty much always Covenant of Celerity, because who doesn't love giving the group a proc that does 300ish damage and 60% speed reduction over 10 seconds.

    Has there been much discussion of the disciple's sacrifice tree? Because to me it seems fairly undesirable compared to torture and dark rites.

    well it has a tactic that increases your auto melee-heal (can't remember the name) by 150%

    which means you can just whack someone in the face and heal yourself for a bunch

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Zzulu wrote: »
    Gerbil2309 wrote: »
    Well, i think the choice of covenant to use for a Disciple of Khaine is quite important in terms of providing buffs for the group. I'm torture specced atm, so my choice is pretty much always Covenant of Celerity, because who doesn't love giving the group a proc that does 300ish damage and 60% speed reduction over 10 seconds.

    Has there been much discussion of the disciple's sacrifice tree? Because to me it seems fairly undesirable compared to torture and dark rites.

    well it has a tactic that increases your auto melee-heal (can't remember the name) by 150%

    which means you can just whack someone in the face and heal yourself for a bunch

    In other words, exactly like a black orc, except weedier.

    DisruptorX2 on
    1208768734831.jpg
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    yeah but this one also heals his entire group'

    and I assume it heals for more

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
  • Gerbil2309Gerbil2309 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    True, but i always thought that Rend Soul with the Persistent Rending tactic from the Dark Rites tree would be better suited for that. At full dark rites it hits for the same amount per hit as Consume Essence (75 base damage), but heals for 250% of damage done rather then the 150% that Consume Essence does.

    Rend Soul does have an 8 second cool down, but even taking that into consideration it should do as much damage as Consume Essence and heal more. It also delivers that damage in a much shorter time period then it would take Consume Essence, allowing you to then drop a Lacerate or Consume Strength before being able to do it again.

    I guess my question is what the broader utility of the Sacrifice tree is. The abilities that are linked to it don't seem as healy or as fighty as the other 2 trees respectively. So what is the point of the Sacrifice tree - is it meant to merely be a debuff tree, or is there some broader purpose to it that I'm missing?

    Gerbil2309 on
  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I thought rend soul only healed one target?

    The difference is that your teammates also get healed if you use the sacrifice tactic

    Honestly, this is the only reason I'd go sacrifice, but it's a pretty attractive reason I think. Especially since you become much more mobile compared to using rend soul

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
  • kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Melee healers have two main melee heals (well, three):

    Your single target spike heal (deals damage, heals for 250% of damage, 4 tics) which burns your secondary pool and heals one dude.

    Your splash heals, which heal your secondary target and anyone very very very nearby (melee range) for part of the damage dealt. This eats AP.

    This means that an AE healing high level WP/DoK spams splash heals to build secondary pool, and burns AE Heals/AE Hots/Spike Heals to spend it. Repeat constantly. The splash heal is easiest to use if it's targeting you, since you can move near wounded people, but that's not always viable in pvp.

    However, it's an amazing way to rig PQ contribution bonuses.. :winky:

    kildy on
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Even if DoK is a lot better, I like the aesthetics of the Warrior Priest so much more they'll always be my first choice.

    mynameisguido on
    steam_sig.png
  • Gerbil2309Gerbil2309 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Actually you're right - sorry, I should learn to read more carefully. Rend soul is single target, Consume Essence heals your defensive target and anyone within 10 feet - which isn't superb range, but is definitely useful in some situations. The mobility question is moot though - you can move while using Rend Soul, it keeps channelling.

    Gerbil2309 on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Man, I am intensely loving my WP now

    With the shield and the level 8 ability

    I love leading Damage Done and Healing Done at the same time

    INeedNoSalt on
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Man, I am intensely loving my WP now

    With the shield and the level 8 ability

    I love leading Damage Done and Healing Done at the same time

    Are we going to get as many posts about you loving your WP as we did you complaining about it before rank 8?

    UnknownSaint on
  • INeedNoSaltINeedNoSalt with blood on my teeth Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Man, I am intensely loving my WP now

    With the shield and the level 8 ability

    I love leading Damage Done and Healing Done at the same time

    Are we going to get as many posts about you loving your WP as we did you complaining about it before rank 8?

    I think I posted once about my WP earlier, so yeah, I guess that's about equal.

    INeedNoSalt on
  • jpegjpeg Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I love my zealot

    About to ding 17/14, Rejector on Drifting Castle.

    I can pretty easily break 100k healing in scenarios given I don't die a whole lot (which is easy when I can keep myself up against like three people because witchcraft is the best tree ever)

    jpeg on
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  • meatflowermeatflower Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Man, I am intensely loving my WP now

    With the shield and the level 8 ability

    I love leading Damage Done and Healing Done at the same time

    Are we going to get as many posts about you loving your WP as we did you complaining about it before rank 8?

    I think I posted once about my WP earlier, so yeah, I guess that's about equal.

    Well I'll post for you.

    I got a WP to 11 in OB, liked it a lot, and it was probably going to be my main choice on launch. Then for some unknown reason I thought it would be good to try Archmage, which I ended up liking enough to roll on launch day. Then after getting focus fired like crazy in a few Nordenwatch's, I promptly rerolled Engineer for a reason that is still lost to me.

    A week later and I miss having heals, and somehow forgot that the squishiness of the Archmage wasn't shared by the WP.

    So now I'm raising up a new one and damn does pre-8 suck.

    meatflower on
    archer_sig-2.jpg
  • risumonrisumon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I think I am taken by Zealot now. Very token healer and boring at the low levels, but it looks like it will get better. There is one main reason why she has my interest so much.

    I throw potions at people to HoT them.

    Thats it really. Its just so sweet to lob healing goodness at someone. Sure its impractical and gives my position away, but damn if it doesn't look awesome.

    risumon on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I was adoring my DoK but decided to switch to Warrior Priest because, well, it's more fun to hit things with a hammer than with swords. So far I'm liking him alot, and looking forward to level 8.

    GoodOmens on
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  • TethTeth __BANNED USERS
    edited September 2008
    Oh I love my Ironbreaker but I want to roll a Warrior Priest so bad so....yea off to do that now.

    Teth on
    #1
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    risumon wrote: »
    I think I am taken by Zealot now. Very token healer and boring at the low levels, but it looks like it will get better. There is one main reason why she has my interest so much.

    I throw potions at people to HoT them.

    Thats it really. Its just so sweet to lob healing goodness at someone. Sure its impractical and gives my position away, but damn if it doesn't look awesome.

    This. THIS. I cannot lime this quite enough. I _LOVE_ this about zealots. Every time I cast most of my spells, I toss an elixir at them... from a hundred fifty frickin' feet away. I tell ya, us zealots? We've got good arms.

    We should play blood bowl.

    Rend on
  • ElementalorElementalor Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    You are all making me want to put my shammy on hold. bastids.

    Elementalor on
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  • risumonrisumon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Rend wrote: »
    risumon wrote: »
    I think I am taken by Zealot now. Very token healer and boring at the low levels, but it looks like it will get better. There is one main reason why she has my interest so much.

    I throw potions at people to HoT them.

    Thats it really. Its just so sweet to lob healing goodness at someone. Sure its impractical and gives my position away, but damn if it doesn't look awesome.

    This. THIS. I cannot lime this quite enough. I _LOVE_ this about zealots. Every time I cast most of my spells, I toss an elixir at them... from a hundred fifty frickin' feet away. I tell ya, us zealots? We've got good arms.

    We should play blood bowl.

    Heh. Glad to see I am not the only one who feels this way.

    risumon on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SifakaSifaka Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Any shamans using mods and if so which ones and why? I am getting ready to pollute my virgin interface. My primary goal is to find mods that will let me heal better in RvR.

    Sifaka on
  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Sifaka wrote: »
    Any shamans using mods and if so which ones and why? I am getting ready to pollute my virgin interface. My primary goal is to find mods that will let me heal better in RvR.

    see this post: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=7144504&postcount=199

    It was on page 8 of this thread.

    I installed both of those and it made targeting so much easier.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    After figuring out some of the quirky ways ISMoCasts works, I'm loving it. :^: Great for my shaman healing in RvR, the sticky targeting let's me easily healbot the meatshield of my choosing and spot heal the rest.

    Infidel on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So, messed around with a Shaman last night, got him up to 5/3 or 5/4 (it was late and I was just doing quests and the T1 Greenskin Scenario back to back for most of the night) and I really enjoyed it. Sure, my gear is abysmal and I'm still picking up some rather important key components of the class, but the healing/dps style are nice. Ranged attacks to help out when things are going well, then I back up and start layering HoTs and heals on my allies, with the ocassional sped up / empowered shot/DoT at the enemies to keep 'em on their toes.

    Also, playing a healer in PVP is as much fun as I remembered it being in WoW, but with fewer rogues trying to gank me. It's like a pvp taunt; get one on me and run away / through the melee dps and tanks to see if the smart ones pull him off me. Had one guy who just wouldn't let up, and a few tanks would grab him and smash him down, all the while he kept trying to get a hit here and there on me, which my HoT was pretty much matching if given a moment or two to tick.

    Oh, and as noted in the general thread, kiting a PQ boss for the last 1/3 or so of his health was fun as hell.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited September 2008
    dont forget to use detaunt. It's funny watching that pesky swordmaster's damage to into single digits.

    Unknown User on
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