[WoW] I, for one, welcome our Retribution overlords [Paladins]

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  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    To Laurlana or any other holy paladin thinking of going holy/ret for judgements of the wise..
    This game evolves. We have totally changed out minds on things I never thought we'd change our mind about.

    It's not the intention that the premiere healing build is half Ret. We'll get that fixed.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/5/10043322049-gc-word-on-holy-blue-request.html


    I was in the thread where that post came from chatting with Ghostcrawler. As it stands now, they are talking about lengthening the amount of time that Paladins suffer the -50% healing during Divine Plea.....



    I don't think they know what the hell to do, really.


    It's almost like "if we buff Holy too much more, Paladins will become uber healing gods". "But if we don't change this stuff over in Ret, they will still be uber healing gods." "But they're uber healing gods right now." "I'm so confused."


    Seriously, I don't think they know what to do.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I'm rerolling my pally to a gnome warrior for WotLK, but that's more for aesthetics than anything else. Looking like http://www.tankspot.com/photoplog/images/490/1_WoWScrnShot_122207_002758.jpg would just let me giggle incessantly all day.

    Grundlestiltskin on
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2008
    Screw pot shenanigans, let's just talk about ret again.

    Or holy.

    Because holy looks pretty tits too, ya know

    Munkus Beaver on
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  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    So I soloed Ramps, BF, UB, SP, and MT last night as ret at 71.

    EDIT: What should I try to solo tonight?

    PierceNeck on
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  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Screw pot shenanigans, let's just talk about ret again.

    Or holy.

    Because holy looks pretty tits too, ya know

    What the fuck happened to Munkus? GIVE HIM BACK!

    Beyond Normal on
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  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Pick a fight with a Fel Reaver.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I tried taking out uvuros or whatever his name is in SMV, and he stomped me pretty bad. But that was when I was 70 and didn't have BoS, I'm going to try again! (i also wasn't using light, which could have been the problem)

    PierceNeck on
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  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    That's the funny thing. Being a Holy Paladin, I could always survive against a lot of crap, so long as it didn't interrupt me, or MS me for too much. I always had to have someone else to do the DPS though, because I couldn't both heal myself, and kill the mob(s).



    That is not the case at ALL now.

    Took a Ret into Ony with me on Murmer. We had her dead in about.....13-15min. Roughly. Might have been 12-14.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    I tried taking out uvuros or whatever his name is in SMV, and he stomped me pretty bad. But that was when I was 70 and didn't have BoS, I'm going to try again! (i also wasn't using light, which could have been the problem)

    He's the dog right? Breaths flames?

    Thomamelas on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Yep, that's the one.

    PierceNeck on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    Yep, that's the one.

    When you see him getting ready to breath flame, switch your aura real quickly to FR aura. It's not going to be a huge chance to resist but it can be helpful.

    Thomamelas on
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Ya know, if wars can dual wield 2h now I want pallies to dual wield shields.

    Ultimate double Holy Shield / Shield of Righteousness combo for the win!

    Arvo on
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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Laurluna wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    To Laurlana or any other holy paladin thinking of going holy/ret for judgements of the wise..
    This game evolves. We have totally changed out minds on things I never thought we'd change our mind about.

    It's not the intention that the premiere healing build is half Ret. We'll get that fixed.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/5/10043322049-gc-word-on-holy-blue-request.html


    I was in the thread where that post came from chatting with Ghostcrawler. As it stands now, they are talking about lengthening the amount of time that Paladins suffer the -50% healing during Divine Plea.....



    I don't think they know what the hell to do, really.


    It's almost like "if we buff Holy too much more, Paladins will become uber healing gods". "But if we don't change this stuff over in Ret, they will still be uber healing gods." "But they're uber healing gods right now." "I'm so confused."


    Seriously, I don't think they know what to do.

    I seriously hope they just leave Judgement of the Wise alone. I'd be fine with them moving it deeper into the Ret tree, but basically that talent alone makes or breaks the Ret Tree. Same with Art of War.

    Wavechaser on
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »



    I seriously hope they just leave Judgement of the Wise alone. I'd be fine with them moving it deeper into the Ret tree, but basically that talent alone makes or breaks the Ret Tree. Same with Art of War.



    As do I. I hope it's a combonation of moving JotW down into the 40-point Ret range, and then adding 1-2 lil goodies into Deep Holy that make it attractive to spec.

    As it stands now, there's absolutly no reason to go any deeper than 37 points into Holy, when I'm getting 22-23% of my mana pool back everytime I judge from Ret. I've tested it at great length, using both the Test Dummies for range/spam, as well as live tests during instance/raid healing and PvP. Chain-casting Max Rank Holy Lights that crit in the 13k range is like a walk in the park. That's high-end crap, al la Brutallus, that you would normally NEVER do. Divine Favor a Holy Shock/insta cast HL for my "ohshit" buttons. Crappy PvP gear that has shit gems/enchants, and nowhere NEAR the 226 +haste/30% Holy Crit/120unbuffed Mp5 that I normally rock. People keep saying that you'll spend too many GCDs judging and not healing. Those people don't cast Holy Lights at 1.75 seconds a cast.

    It's just like the Illumination nerf. No one fully understood what we were capable of as healers, until we broke into SSC/TK, and starting getting the insane +crit gear.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    New build going up for Beta
    --Many class changes. You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.

    edit: Bleh, wrong thread.

    Mgcw on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?

    PierceNeck on
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  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?

    You don't judge a lot as a holy pally now because you don't want to be that close to the mob. Now that the range has increased and CS no longer refreshes them, I'd assume you'll be judging quite a bit.

    Grundlestiltskin on
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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Another weird change I noticed last night that kind of sucks, hitting your enemy no longer automatically refreshes the judgement on them, so for like things like Judgement of Justice, you have to keep re-applying it.

    Oh well, small price to pay.

    Wavechaser on
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Every spec will want to judge at least once every thirty seconds now, though, I guess.

    So hoping prot will get an 11pt talent in the new build today!

    815165 on
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    Every spec will want to judge at least once every thirty seconds now, though, I guess.

    So hoping prot will get an 11pt talent in the new build today!

    What makes you say this?

    Arvo on
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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Which bit?

    The first bit because Holy Paladins get 10% spell haste for 30secs from Judging, and Prot/Ret will use it on every cooldown.

    The second bit because I'm interested to see what they'll come up with.

    815165 on
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    Which bit?

    The first bit because Holy Paladins get 10% spell haste for 30secs from Judging, and Prot/Ret will use it on every cooldown.

    The second bit because I'm interested to see what they'll come up with.

    Sorry, what I meant was, what makes you think they're adding a new talent?

    Arvo on
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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I'm hoping they will, every other spec has an 11pt talent, right? Even Balance which also has a new ability in the first tier, or had depending on whether the beta/PTR or live are the present and the other is the future/past.

    815165 on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Arvo wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Which bit?

    The first bit because Holy Paladins get 10% spell haste for 30secs from Judging, and Prot/Ret will use it on every cooldown.

    The second bit because I'm interested to see what they'll come up with.

    Sorry, what I meant was, what makes you think they're adding a new talent?

    Because otherwise Protadins will be the only spec without an 11 point talent.

    reVerse on
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    This will probably sound newbish of me, but I'm confused. Are you talking about a talent that requires 11 points in the tree? or that need 11 points in that one talent? Cause I see neither of those in any class tree.

    Arvo on
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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    The former. Examples of 11pt talents for reference: Piercing Howl (Warrior, fury), Last Stand (Warrior, prot), Icy Veins (Mage, frost), Seal of Command (Pala, ret), etc.

    815165 on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Arvo wrote: »
    This will probably sound newbish of me, but I'm confused. Are you talking about a talent that requires 11 points in the tree? or that need 11 points in that one talent? Cause I see neither of those in any class tree.

    It means a talent that requires exactly 11 points to get, such as Seal of Command, Aura Mastery or the current live version of Blessing of Kings.

    reVerse on
  • MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Paladin 11 point talents: Aura Mastery, Seal of Command
    Hunter example: Aspect Mastery, Aimed Shot, Trap Mastery
    Priest Example: Inner Focus, Desperate Prayer, Mind Flay

    Do you get it now?

    Mgcw on
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Oh, I get it. Its still a 10 point tier, but its an ability that only costs 1 point.

    I never noticed that was a standard with all classes.

    Arvo on
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  • LaurlunaLaurluna Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    I've never healed an encounter, so I'm curious as to how often you'll get to actually judge a mob in a group setting? Are JotW really that beneficial? I would think that most of your time would be spent on targetting other players, and healing them. Especially because judgements trigger the GCD now. Or is healing not as intensive as I thought?


    Quite often, actually. I mean seriously. Are you REALLY mashing the crap outta' your healing buttons every second of a fight? If you are, you're probably running with a tank that should probably re-evaluate their gear a bit, or you're running with stupid DPS that can't focus-fire or watch their threat. There are a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is. OPTIMALLY, you should be able to judge at least every other time. At least.


    Triggering a Global Cooldown is nowhere NEAR the end of the world, and I don't understand why so many people on the forums bring that up in the debate. Nothing against you, Pierce. If I'm thinking about judging, it's because my target is at full health, and isn't going to die in the time it takes me to judge and wind up another heal. I'm not going to stop and judge a mob, when the tank or another person is at like 20% health. That's called bad healing. People are also forgetting the fact that we're going to be getting a LOT of instant Holy Lights. Holy Shock crits, a lot. You are perfectly capable of judging a target, and then dropping that instant cast right after.


    I think people also underestimate how much 10 yards really is. If I stand at exactly 10 yards on RoS in Black Temple, not only can I not be Fixated in P1, but I'm also perfectly posistioned to do my job. There's a stationary fight for you. Felmyst is crazy, but I can promise you that I won't be OOM by the time she takes off. Guess what? I can have a completely full mana bar, in the time it takes to kill the P2 skeles off. Judge the skeles, in-between healing your Prot Paladin, and running from Deep Breaths.

    Laurluna on
    Being casually elitist in WoW since 2005.
    First Blood 85 Priest 80 Mage 85 Paladin 83 Druid 80 DK 85 Huntard 85 Shaman
    "Tardo Wan" sounds like a Jedi that required 436 years to train and then killed himself by looking into his lightsaber while turning it on."
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Oh don't worry I didn't take any of that as something against me. Like I said, I've never healed. So I don't know how it really works. I was just thinking that a lot of encounter seem to inflict AOE damage and that you'd be spending time on targets other than just the tank.

    PierceNeck on
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  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.

    Wavechaser on
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    Oh don't worry I didn't take any of that as something against me. Like I said, I've never healed. So I don't know how it really works. I was just thinking that a lot of encounter seem to inflict AOE damage and that you'd be spending time on targets other than just the tank.

    Generally you're not going to see much Paladin spot healing. Our toolkit isn't well suited for that when compared to Shamans and Priests. You're mostly going to see Paladins assigned to tank healing.

    Thomamelas on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
    You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.

    815165 on
  • WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Oh.

    Well that's cool.

    Wavechaser on
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    People still do the anal thing?
  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    815165 wrote: »
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
    You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.

    That all sounds well and good, but the whole idea only stands if they don't move JotWise down a tier.

    Arvo on
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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Winner.
    --Many class changes. You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.

    lionheart_m on
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  • ArvoArvo Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Someone already beat you to quoting that.

    Arvo on
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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Arvo wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    I dunno about the "never spamming heals" thing. I mean, i've never actually done the encounter, but fights like Brutallus sound like instances where you can't spare a single second to do anything but spam heal. Running up to judge Brut while your supposed to be healing the MT sounds like it could have ramifications.
    You won't have to run into range to judge thanks to some deep holy talents, you're basicly increasing your throughput by 5% by Judging every 30sec though.

    That all sounds well and good, but the whole idea only stands if they don't move JotWise down a tier.

    Judgements of the Wise doesn't factor into it one bit since you can't get it when you go deep Holy for the Judgement talents there.

    reVerse on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Isn't JoTW supposed to be a raid wide buff or is it strictly a party only type thing. Because putting a retadin in that group for some mana regen isn't a bad idea.

    Beyond Normal on
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