I notice you didn't do a test with Taste for Blood while staying in Battle Stance >.>... I'm curious, actually at what that can achieve. It can't be all that different than what you got with that spec.
The reason for this is previous tests on a previous build (not against dummies, but against the dudes in blasted lands, the dummies were all 80) rend builds did terrible compared to standard arms in zerker stance without rend. Rend would make up something like 2% of total damage, overpower ~3%, at a cost to slam/ms gcds and 3% crit.
Am I missing something? Why are nearly half his hits glancing blows? Is he even skilled up properly?
They've added some useful traits to the combat log in the patch, things like overhealing or overkill show up. As an unintended side effect, the version of recount used in live records crits as glancing blows, glancing blows as crushing blows, and a few other silly things. Nothing wrong with the actual data, though. Just silly name swaps.
Was this before, or after they boosted Rends damage by 50%? I run around in the beta with the improved rend on top of that, I'll admit my AP isn't too good since I'm not yet 80 but my rend ticks for 220 normally, and with Trauma up nearly 270.
As I mentioned in the last thread, and as you can see, I really like the prot talents. Am I missing anything really obvious and good, or am I taking points in something awful? Oh and yes, I'm aware that there's 1 point missing from that. I have no idea what to throw that into... improved revenge, maybe?
I'll probably have a level up build with Unrelenting Assault/Imp Overpower but at 80 it'll probably be http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMc0bZhxZVIzMgczibIzsGo for PvE for me. Debateable between Cruelty and Anticipation depending, Vigilance still sucks since I'm currently not having any threat problems whatsoever, it could go in there depending as well, Imp Charge nice to have with Warbringer, Tact Mastery is fun and Impale is with 20% crit before gear on all your threat skills. No Imp HS for me because rage dump will be going towards 12 Rage Cleaves w/ glyph and Focused Rage unless it's vs a Boss and then I usually have enough rage as is.
Impale is just 20% more crit DAMAGE, not more chance to crit... maybe you knew that and I misread, but its just 20% more damage on 20% of our damage, seems kinda meh to me. Especially since you have to invest 7 points to get it, basically. What reason is there to switch stances?
I am fully aware that Impale is 20% extra damage on crits, which means your 6k shield slams hit for 6600 instead, Thunderclap, Shockwave, etc whatever else. The +20% crit number comes from the +15% crit on HS, Thunderclap, Cleave, Shield Slam and Devastate that you get as prot along with Cruelty, which is 20% before any agility or base crit at all. Reason to switch stances is Intercept, Whirlwind, Berserker Rage, Retaliation (Seperate cooldown from Shield wall, 5 min cooldown, yes this is very good for AoE pulls), you could switch it with Imp HS if you really wanted, but I'm taking it over Zzzzzzzzz that is +5% dodge.
I am fully aware that Impale is 20% extra damage on crits, which means your 6k shield slams hit for 6600 instead, Thunderclap, Shockwave, etc whatever else. The +20% crit number comes from the +15% crit on HS, Thunderclap, Cleave, Shield Slam and Devastate that you get as prot along with Cruelty, which is 20% before any agility or base crit at all. Reason to switch stances is Intercept, Whirlwind, Berserker Rage, Retaliation (Seperate cooldown from Shield wall, 5 min cooldown, yes this is very good for AoE pulls), you could switch it with Imp HS if you really wanted, but I'm taking it over Zzzzzzzzz that is +5% dodge.
I meant no disrespect, I'm honestly just trying to figure things out. Now, those are all very good reasons, and that's why I'm glad I asked. And that does sound neat, I've never messed around with that. So the question then is, is it worth giving up 5% dodge for? I guess most of the time it probably is, you won't notice it... until you die.... hmmm....
I am fully aware that Impale is 20% extra damage on crits, which means your 6k shield slams hit for 6600 instead, Thunderclap, Shockwave, etc whatever else. The +20% crit number comes from the +15% crit on HS, Thunderclap, Cleave, Shield Slam and Devastate that you get as prot along with Cruelty, which is 20% before any agility or base crit at all. Reason to switch stances is Intercept, Whirlwind, Berserker Rage, Retaliation (Seperate cooldown from Shield wall, 5 min cooldown, yes this is very good for AoE pulls), you could switch it with Imp HS if you really wanted, but I'm taking it over Zzzzzzzzz that is +5% dodge.
Those are all very good reasons, and that's why I'm glad I asked. And that does sound neat, I've never messed around with that. So the question then is, is it worth giving up 5% dodge for? I guess most of the time it probably is, you won't notice it... until you die.... hmmm....
Depends, if you're SUPER SRS RAID MT then I'd probably drop things like Imp Spell Reflect and Puncture, since group spell reflect isn't very helpful vs most bosses and the 4% miss isn't really helpful either since there aren't many bosses who constantly cast spells off the top of my head, so like this. But for 5 mans, which is what I do mostly, I like mine. I'm also hearing that Vigilance is back to giving you 10% of the threat the buffed person does, so it might be worth finding a point somewhere.
More damage is more threat, and 5% more crit is a good way to directly increase your damage. Combine that with the fact that it's first tier fury, there's really no reason not to take it.
Would you suddenly have lots of threat issues without it? No, not really. But for the points invested, it's worth more than anything else they would be going into.
So, Ghostcrawler finally visited the warrior Beta forums today. Worth checking out. Last post on the page. I'd quote it, but I'd be quoting a post with quotes, and that's a pain in the ass.
Read through what Ghostcrawler wrote. I am interested to see if they rebuff the healing portion of bloodthirst again, if anything would help a lot on leveling to 80 by minimizing downtime. Not certain on if I am happy with his statement on Shockwave.
If its not our go to ability for aoe tanking does that mean that thunderclap is getting more buffs to make it a go to ability? I found it took both a shockwave and a thunderclap to hold off just a healer and constant thunderclaping to old of arms warriors and ret pallies with their aoe abilities. I also cheated and used a glyph of sunder because it was one of the few I found on the ah on the ptr that would work for tanking.
I know we will never be a pally with my aoe tanking but it would be nice to know how blizzard envisions our ability to tank 3-4 mobs at once. I figure 5+ should take cc or a pally tank since that is a true aoe type pull.
Warrior threat scales like shit, which is a problem that they are fixing, but yes most of it comes from BV and attack power even though there's not much of it (Str) on tanking gear currently.
Strength doesn't scale your threat very well at all as a warrior pre-3.0. It's +BV / a better weapon, or nothing.
Hamurabi on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I am fully aware that Impale is 20% extra damage on crits, which means your 6k shield slams hit for 6600 instead, Thunderclap, Shockwave, etc whatever else. The +20% crit number comes from the +15% crit on HS, Thunderclap, Cleave, Shield Slam and Devastate that you get as prot along with Cruelty, which is 20% before any agility or base crit at all. Reason to switch stances is Intercept, Whirlwind, Berserker Rage, Retaliation (Seperate cooldown from Shield wall, 5 min cooldown, yes this is very good for AoE pulls), you could switch it with Imp HS if you really wanted, but I'm taking it over Zzzzzzzzz that is +5% dodge.
I've never thought of this before, wowza.
Henroid on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
So, Ghostcrawler finally visited the warrior Beta forums today. Worth checking out. Last post on the page. I'd quote it, but I'd be quoting a post with quotes, and that's a pain in the ass.
I'll do the first one, to make people want to click the link.
-What is the vision for the arms tree?
Hit stuff hard with a two-handed weapon. I'm not being cute. That's it.
Henroid on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Why was the healing component of bloodthirst nerfed? We thought it was too good, though to be honest, there are clandestine whispers echoing through our offices in the dead of night to change it back.
Wait, they got rid of the healing of Bloodthirst? That's pretty awful. The healing wasn't even a huge factor. It was like 120 health per BT at 60. How is that too much?
When did they remove it? I haven't played my old warrior in forever.
JustinSane07 on
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
Wait, they got rid of the healing of Bloodthirst? That's pretty awful. The healing wasn't even a huge factor. It was like 120 health per BT at 60. How is that too much?
When did they remove it? I haven't played my old warrior in forever.
it went from 1.5% max health gain per charge, 5 charges per bloodthirst to 0.6% per charge
So now my paladin's seal of light heals me for 9 times more instead of 3 times more than bloodthirst
not counting instant flash of lights or judgement of light or ~8k holy light crit (counting the sheath of light HoT) bombs
kaleedity on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
They didn't remove it entirely, but they lowered it to only restore 0.6% health. I never really felt it was OP myself; frankly Blood Craze at max rank heals a shitload more (6% of max health) and procs pretty often.
Wow. It has been a while since I played my Warrior regularly. I don't even remember them changing it to a percentage. I just remember it being 20 health per charge at 60.
Holy crap have I been out of the warrior game for a while.
I did however complete my group quest last night to get my level 30 blue chest and my level 30 green helm. Yay for my first helm.
This will be my prot spec for leveling and probably 80 pvp/tanking. Maybe take points out of various talents to get toughness, though I honestly have always thought it was a weak talent for 5 points, even with the slow reduction. They should seriously make it 2 points or 3 like the death knight version, would free up a few points. And man Armored to the teeth is gonna be ridiculous for prot, warriors have about 22000-23000 armor in blues/ a few naxx epics on beta, that's a good 165 str, or 330 attack power, which becomes around 130 block value after talents, i think, I just woke up. ~_~
That is insane for 3 points. Prot is pretty much great at the moment. I just think they should condense toughness a bit, maybe throw in 1 more talent, for pvp, mitigation, damage, whatever, and prot would be perfect. Oh, and up revenge damage, either by the talent or just base damage, it's not even worth using at the moment.
oh oh one more random thing, conc blow should daze the target for 6-8 seconds after use, to give def stance a slow, how awesome would that be....and it makes sense!
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
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kaleeditySometimes science is more art than scienceRegistered Userregular
Wow. It has been a while since I played my Warrior regularly. I don't even remember them changing it to a percentage. I just remember it being 20 health per charge at 60.
Holy crap have I been out of the warrior game for a while.
I did however complete my group quest last night to get my level 30 blue chest and my level 30 green helm. Yay for my first helm.
It's still 30 health per charge at 70 (20 health at 60) on live. The percentage thing is only on the ptr or the beta, so you haven't missed as much as you might think. They've made hundreds (thousands?) of back and forth changes in the beta, and the vast majority of those won't stick.
Maybe take points out of various talents to get toughness, though I honestly have always thought it was a weak talent for 5 points, even with the slow reduction. They should seriously make it 2 points or 3 like the death knight version, would free up a few points.
This will be my prot spec for leveling and probably 80 pvp/tanking.
You should have Puncture for cheaper Devastates.
This! Making your main attack 25% cheaper is pretty awesome.
Safeguard is a pretty meh talent. Why not Toughness for a bigger benefit from Armored to the Teeth? Definitely Puncture. I like Shield Mastery, too, but that can go either way.
This will be my prot spec for leveling and probably 80 pvp/tanking.
You should have Puncture for cheaper Devastates.
This! Making your main attack 25% cheaper is pretty awesome.
Safeguard is a pretty meh talent. Why not Toughness for a bigger benefit from Armored to the Teeth? Definitely Puncture. I like Shield Mastery, too, but that can go either way.
Safeguard looks like it'd be nice for PvP. "Oh no, they're focusing on the healer! Zoom! 30% damage reduction, yay!"
This will be my prot spec for leveling and probably 80 pvp/tanking.
You should have Puncture for cheaper Devastates.
This! Making your main attack 25% cheaper is pretty awesome.
Safeguard is a pretty meh talent. Why not Toughness for a bigger benefit from Armored to the Teeth? Definitely Puncture. I like Shield Mastery, too, but that can go either way.
Safeguard looks like it'd be nice for PvP. "Oh no, they're focusing on the healer! Zoom! 30% damage reduction, yay!"
True. Overall, I think prot will be a lot of fun for PvP.
Maybe take points out of various talents to get toughness, though I honestly have always thought it was a weak talent for 5 points, even with the slow reduction. They should seriously make it 2 points or 3 like the death knight version, would free up a few points.
Toughness is 5 points for Death Knights as well.
I could swear it was 3 points, maybe they changed it...or I'm crazy.....
and yeah, maybe I'll drop imp disciplines and the point in safeguard for puncture, I'll see how the rest of the tree pans out before 3.0.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
Wow. It has been a while since I played my Warrior regularly. I don't even remember them changing it to a percentage. I just remember it being 20 health per charge at 60.
Holy crap have I been out of the warrior game for a while.
I did however complete my group quest last night to get my level 30 blue chest and my level 30 green helm. Yay for my first helm.
It's still 30 health per charge at 70 (20 health at 60) on live. The percentage thing is only on the ptr or the beta, so you haven't missed as much as you might think. They've made hundreds (thousands?) of back and forth changes in the beta, and the vast majority of those won't stick.
I wonder if there are any discussions of removing Titan's Grip and trying something else at the 51pt Fury spot.
Its too bad they won't rethink that. I love arms and prot just for the simple fun of Bladestorm and Shockwave.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of swinging around two-handers like inflatable toys, but if they HIT like inflatable toys I'm sure the novelty will wear off fairly quickly.
Posts
The reason for this is previous tests on a previous build (not against dummies, but against the dudes in blasted lands, the dummies were all 80) rend builds did terrible compared to standard arms in zerker stance without rend. Rend would make up something like 2% of total damage, overpower ~3%, at a cost to slam/ms gcds and 3% crit.
They've added some useful traits to the combat log in the patch, things like overhealing or overkill show up. As an unintended side effect, the version of recount used in live records crits as glancing blows, glancing blows as crushing blows, and a few other silly things. Nothing wrong with the actual data, though. Just silly name swaps.
My warrior is sword spec and I love it so much!
Seriously, mix it with flurry and you got a fairly deadly mix.
As I mentioned in the last thread, and as you can see, I really like the prot talents. Am I missing anything really obvious and good, or am I taking points in something awful? Oh and yes, I'm aware that there's 1 point missing from that. I have no idea what to throw that into... improved revenge, maybe?
One question I wanna ask. Is Arms/poleaxe a good spec to be runing with for solo questing?
I meant no disrespect, I'm honestly just trying to figure things out. Now, those are all very good reasons, and that's why I'm glad I asked. And that does sound neat, I've never messed around with that. So the question then is, is it worth giving up 5% dodge for? I guess most of the time it probably is, you won't notice it... until you die.... hmmm....
Depends, if you're SUPER SRS RAID MT then I'd probably drop things like Imp Spell Reflect and Puncture, since group spell reflect isn't very helpful vs most bosses and the 4% miss isn't really helpful either since there aren't many bosses who constantly cast spells off the top of my head, so like this. But for 5 mans, which is what I do mostly, I like mine. I'm also hearing that Vigilance is back to giving you 10% of the threat the buffed person does, so it might be worth finding a point somewhere.
Didn't feel disrespected, sorry if I was harsh.
Pretty much all the weapon specs are fine, Mace Spec isn't going to help you much raiding but for soloing none of them are bad.
Would you suddenly have lots of threat issues without it? No, not really. But for the points invested, it's worth more than anything else they would be going into.
If its not our go to ability for aoe tanking does that mean that thunderclap is getting more buffs to make it a go to ability? I found it took both a shockwave and a thunderclap to hold off just a healer and constant thunderclaping to old of arms warriors and ret pallies with their aoe abilities. I also cheated and used a glyph of sunder because it was one of the few I found on the ah on the ptr that would work for tanking.
I know we will never be a pally with my aoe tanking but it would be nice to know how blizzard envisions our ability to tank 3-4 mobs at once. I figure 5+ should take cc or a pally tank since that is a true aoe type pull.
On the other hand, shockwave is freaking awesome.
Playing my Retadin I basically have free unlimited healing with Art of War, why not give Warriors their bloodthirst health proc back?
Strength doesn't scale your threat very well at all as a warrior pre-3.0. It's +BV / a better weapon, or nothing.
I've never thought of this before, wowza.
I'll do the first one, to make people want to click the link.
When did they remove it? I haven't played my old warrior in forever.
it went from 1.5% max health gain per charge, 5 charges per bloodthirst to 0.6% per charge
So now my paladin's seal of light heals me for 9 times more instead of 3 times more than bloodthirst
not counting instant flash of lights or judgement of light or ~8k holy light crit (counting the sheath of light HoT) bombs
Holy crap have I been out of the warrior game for a while.
I did however complete my group quest last night to get my level 30 blue chest and my level 30 green helm. Yay for my first helm.
This will be my prot spec for leveling and probably 80 pvp/tanking. Maybe take points out of various talents to get toughness, though I honestly have always thought it was a weak talent for 5 points, even with the slow reduction. They should seriously make it 2 points or 3 like the death knight version, would free up a few points. And man Armored to the teeth is gonna be ridiculous for prot, warriors have about 22000-23000 armor in blues/ a few naxx epics on beta, that's a good 165 str, or 330 attack power, which becomes around 130 block value after talents, i think, I just woke up. ~_~
That is insane for 3 points. Prot is pretty much great at the moment. I just think they should condense toughness a bit, maybe throw in 1 more talent, for pvp, mitigation, damage, whatever, and prot would be perfect. Oh, and up revenge damage, either by the talent or just base damage, it's not even worth using at the moment.
oh oh one more random thing, conc blow should daze the target for 6-8 seconds after use, to give def stance a slow, how awesome would that be....and it makes sense!
I'm dead serious."
It's still 30 health per charge at 70 (20 health at 60) on live. The percentage thing is only on the ptr or the beta, so you haven't missed as much as you might think. They've made hundreds (thousands?) of back and forth changes in the beta, and the vast majority of those won't stick.
Toughness is 5 points for Death Knights as well.
You should have Puncture for cheaper Devastates.
Safeguard is a pretty meh talent. Why not Toughness for a bigger benefit from Armored to the Teeth? Definitely Puncture. I like Shield Mastery, too, but that can go either way.
Safeguard looks like it'd be nice for PvP. "Oh no, they're focusing on the healer! Zoom! 30% damage reduction, yay!"
True. Overall, I think prot will be a lot of fun for PvP.
I could swear it was 3 points, maybe they changed it...or I'm crazy.....
and yeah, maybe I'll drop imp disciplines and the point in safeguard for puncture, I'll see how the rest of the tree pans out before 3.0.
I'm dead serious."
I wonder if there are any discussions of removing Titan's Grip and trying something else at the 51pt Fury spot.
There are, among warriors. But everything Ghostcrawler has said leads me to believe that there are no such discussions among devs.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of swinging around two-handers like inflatable toys, but if they HIT like inflatable toys I'm sure the novelty will wear off fairly quickly.