Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
I would like to remind everyone that TG's hit penalty only applies to special attacks, not white hits. So that 5% base miss and 15% on top.
And I am curious because I haven't found otherwise, but what is the miss penalty on TG's white hits? Is it the DW miss rate or is it the 2H miss rate?
As it stands, regardless, if you were a fury warrior before and you are a fury warrior now, TG will be a straight boost in DPS because you've already been collecting hit gear.
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Is there currently a build that tanks decently but is still viable in PVP, like the old MS defiance days at level 60?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Prot does seem tempting... Like a sexy Jessica Alba in a hot tub. But Mortal Strike... Its like that reliably cute coffee shop girl thats always there with a smile.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
Bottom line is that prot will have assloads of utility to make your knees weak. If you want to tank, go prot. It will be PvP viable by the truckload.
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As it stands, regardless, if you were a fury warrior before and you are a fury warrior now, TG will be a straight boost in DPS because you've already been collecting hit gear.
Fury warriors collect hit gear until the soft cap of 142 HR or 9%. After that, the value of hit drops off, and STR/CRIT/ArP become much more valuable.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
See MGHM? This is much better. When you make smarmy, assholish remarks my infraction finger begins to itch. When you make well reasoned analysis, then I'm full of praise and think, "Damn, this guy is one of the reasons why we are so much better than the official forums."
So I am to understand that the TG talent penalty only affects yellow hits then, correct? You're still going to be dealing with the same miss on your white hits without it, but you'll be doing exponentially higher damage on each hit, as well as having a ludicrous stat boost from having 2 2-handers.
Again, my understanding is that TG gives a 15% damage nerf to yellow damage done, which while considerable, shouldn't be enough to negate the damage boost to white damage done (and the boost to yellow damage when it connects).
Munkus Beaver on
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Unfortunately it's worse than a 15% nerf to yellow damage(before the straight up damage buff when they hit), because of utility needs like hamstring or mocking blow. All the more reason to search for another way to balance its dps in a different way, that doesn't have non-damage consequences.
Whoops, right, forgot about the weapon-based attacks only, I guess pummel is safe as well.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2008
I never saw the damage from pummel, hamstring, and other abilities of this nature as part of their function. It was more of a bonus to whatever interrupt or snare or whatever they did.
I never saw the damage from pummel, hamstring, and other abilities of this nature as part of their function. It was more of a bonus to whatever interrupt or snare or whatever they did.
Well, with hamstring wouldn't the periodic damage keep a rogue from stealthing on you?
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I never saw the damage from pummel, hamstring, and other abilities of this nature as part of their function. It was more of a bonus to whatever interrupt or snare or whatever they did.
Well, with hamstring wouldn't the periodic damage keep a rogue from stealthing on you?
It wasn't periodic. It was a flat rate of damage when you used the ability. Hamstring's function is for slowing, not for damaging. That's what I'm getting at.
Edit - In other words, I'm saying it's kinda silly to point out the damage could've been nerfed due to TG.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
Hamstring never did periodic damage.
EDIT: Unless you had deep wounds and crit with hamstring.
Munkus Beaver on
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Unfortunately it's worse than a 15% nerf to yellow damage(before the straight up damage buff when they hit), because of utility needs like hamstring or mocking blow. All the more reason to search for another way to balance its dps in a different way, that doesn't have non-damage consequences.
It's more than just that too. Take into account things like Flurry. As it stands right now, I have two attacks as part of my standard rotation that are guaranteed to hit, thereby giving them a chance to crit as well. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but I have a feeling Flurry uptime will drop a bit as TG spec. I think at gear levels where we are hit capped or very close to it, TG will be good. Very good. Before that point, I'm almost sure an Arms build or a DW (1h) Incite build will be substantially superior. Time will tell though. Things are still changing faster than I can even keep up, so we'll obviously know more when the changes go live.
does the -15% hit also apply to the -24% you already have on your offhand? or just your MH and yellow attacks, making everything -24%?
it's too bad they don't just make your mainhand do 80% of it's regular damage and your OH 60% of it's regular damage or something
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
Tooltip says only special attacks, Jim. So it will only affect yellow hits, period.
Munkus Beaver on
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Good fucking lord when you guys said Protection had become downright beastly none of you weren't kidding. The only problem I've noticed is that sometimes things are a little hairy if I get rage-starved, but otherwise Prot is an awesome spec to level as. The best thing is that most of the gear I'm wearing I made myself as a Blacksmith, right down to the weapon/shield. For the most part all of my gear is tanking stuff aside from my weapon, maybe my ranged weapon, trinkets rings and necklace. Gotta get a little extra crit somewhere after all.
Good fucking lord when you guys said Protection had become downright beastly none of you weren't kidding. The only problem I've noticed is that sometimes things are a little hairy if I get rage-starved, but otherwise Prot is an awesome spec to level as. The best thing is that most of the gear I'm wearing I made myself as a Blacksmith, right down to the weapon/shield. For the most part all of my gear is tanking stuff aside from my weapon, maybe my ranged weapon, trinkets rings and necklace. Gotta get a little extra crit somewhere after all.
If you're rage-starved while farming and soloing and what not, make sure you're wearing DPS gear and not tanking gear. And if you're still rage starved, take off all your clothes.
Eh... no. Not having tanking gear on would cripple my #1 ability, Shield Slam. When I say rage-starved it's more that I can't instantly go off and repeatedly beat the living shit out of my target with devastate/shield slam/revenge, but have to wait a second or two. I will say one things, I've taken on fights that I normally couldn't have with Arms or Fury I think. Not of the elite sort but the sheer amount of things I'm taking on. There's this one Vrykul village in Storm Peaks where if you stand in the wrong spots you will keep getting the patrols that are flying around out of your line-of-sight. I think for one fight I ended up with eight of the things dead at my feet.
Good fucking lord when you guys said Protection had become downright beastly none of you weren't kidding. The only problem I've noticed is that sometimes things are a little hairy if I get rage-starved, but otherwise Prot is an awesome spec to level as. The best thing is that most of the gear I'm wearing I made myself as a Blacksmith, right down to the weapon/shield. For the most part all of my gear is tanking stuff aside from my weapon, maybe my ranged weapon, trinkets rings and necklace. Gotta get a little extra crit somewhere after all.
If you're rage-starved while farming and soloing and what not, make sure you're wearing DPS gear and not tanking gear. And if you're still rage starved, take off all your clothes.
Eh... no. Not having tanking gear on would cripple my #1 ability, Shield Slam. When I say rage-starved it's more that I can't instantly go off and repeatedly beat the living shit out of my target with devastate/shield slam/revenge, but have to wait a second or two. I will say one things, I've taken on fights that I normally couldn't have with Arms or Fury I think. Not of the elite sort but the sheer amount of things I'm taking on. There's this one Vrykul village in Storm Peaks where if you stand in the wrong spots you will keep getting the patrols that are flying around out of your line-of-sight. I think for one fight I ended up with eight of the things dead at my feet.
I promise you will find soloing and levelling 1,000 times easier in DPS gear than tanking gear. Your other abilities will more than make up for the tiny amount of damage lost on your shield slams. Also you will always have rage to burn.
Perhaps it would be better to pull a few more mobs at a time? Would mean a bit more rage and you could get some reflective damage from damage shields talent (is that the name, I'm at work so I can't check). Not sure how efficent it would be, haven't played with the new talents yet.
Perhaps it would be better to pull a few more mobs at a time? Would mean a bit more rage and you could get some reflective damage from damage shields talent (is that the name, I'm at work so I can't check). Not sure how efficent it would be, haven't played with the new talents yet.
Oh absolutely. Tanking 4-5 mobs is a breeze as a prot warrior. I still wear my DPS gear for it. Thunderclap and Shockwave are AP-based, anyhow.
I'm gonna try prot out tonight on the PTR, but god damn it's been agggggges since I've touched the tree, so I find I have no idea what i'm doing here.
How does this look, and if shitty, any suggestions on a better build?
Focused rage is an absolute must-have. As is Puncture (which you have). Safeguard is very "meh" and more points in Toughness = more AP from AttT. Otherwise it looks very similar to the build I'll use, except I usually go without Imp. Disarm.
If you're going for PTR you're going to have to drop 10 talent points and there isn't much outside of Defensive Stance worth switching for except Berserker Rage, so you can drop Arms points and tact mastery for now, being able to charge in combat helps a lot with rage. I'd drop the pts in Anticipation to pick up Focused Rage and Toughness. You can probably do without Puncture, http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhxZfIzrgbzidIzsGo or something similar, depending on how much they buffed revenge it might be easy to drop Imp Revenge points for something else, between charge, conc blow and Shockwave you run into diminishing return on stuns really quickly and Imp Revenge stun won't help you there.
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And I am curious because I haven't found otherwise, but what is the miss penalty on TG's white hits? Is it the DW miss rate or is it the 2H miss rate?
As it stands, regardless, if you were a fury warrior before and you are a fury warrior now, TG will be a straight boost in DPS because you've already been collecting hit gear.
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Go straight prot in 3.0 and never look back.
AKA [PA]Ilovepandas
Hit cap for yellow attacks in PvE is 9%, not 5%.
The miss chance on a raid boss with Titan's Grip will be 24% for white hits and 24% for yellow attacks.
Fury warriors collect hit gear until the soft cap of 142 HR or 9%. After that, the value of hit drops off, and STR/CRIT/ArP become much more valuable.
So I am to understand that the TG talent penalty only affects yellow hits then, correct? You're still going to be dealing with the same miss on your white hits without it, but you'll be doing exponentially higher damage on each hit, as well as having a ludicrous stat boost from having 2 2-handers.
Again, my understanding is that TG gives a 15% damage nerf to yellow damage done, which while considerable, shouldn't be enough to negate the damage boost to white damage done (and the boost to yellow damage when it connects).
Didn't they remove the damage portion of hamstring, or am I thinking of another snare?
Yes, they did.
Well, with hamstring wouldn't the periodic damage keep a rogue from stealthing on you?
It wasn't periodic. It was a flat rate of damage when you used the ability. Hamstring's function is for slowing, not for damaging. That's what I'm getting at.
Edit - In other words, I'm saying it's kinda silly to point out the damage could've been nerfed due to TG.
EDIT: Unless you had deep wounds and crit with hamstring.
It's more than just that too. Take into account things like Flurry. As it stands right now, I have two attacks as part of my standard rotation that are guaranteed to hit, thereby giving them a chance to crit as well. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but I have a feeling Flurry uptime will drop a bit as TG spec. I think at gear levels where we are hit capped or very close to it, TG will be good. Very good. Before that point, I'm almost sure an Arms build or a DW (1h) Incite build will be substantially superior. Time will tell though. Things are still changing faster than I can even keep up, so we'll obviously know more when the changes go live.
It's probably not that funny, but I chuckled inwardly.
EDIT: TG is the spikiest build that was ever built. 1200 DPS on one fight, mob dead in three hits. 400 DPS on the next. =/
does the -15% hit also apply to the -24% you already have on your offhand? or just your MH and yellow attacks, making everything -24%?
it's too bad they don't just make your mainhand do 80% of it's regular damage and your OH 60% of it's regular damage or something
i guess i will regem some stuff for hit
also macro all my abilities to /roar before i do anything because i am going to look so fucking cool
Your MH attacks will always have the same miss chance as your OH attacks, when DWing. Regardless of class or talents.
If you're rage-starved while farming and soloing and what not, make sure you're wearing DPS gear and not tanking gear. And if you're still rage starved, take off all your clothes.
Anger mangement it works trust me
Yes, oh god, yes.(I don't know about low levels, but surely it is at 50+)
I promise you will find soloing and levelling 1,000 times easier in DPS gear than tanking gear. Your other abilities will more than make up for the tiny amount of damage lost on your shield slams. Also you will always have rage to burn.
How does this look, and if shitty, any suggestions on a better build?
Oh absolutely. Tanking 4-5 mobs is a breeze as a prot warrior. I still wear my DPS gear for it. Thunderclap and Shockwave are AP-based, anyhow.
Is this for PvE or PvP?
Focused Rage > Safeguard, or at the very least better than Puncture if this is a PvP oriented build.
Focused rage is an absolute must-have. As is Puncture (which you have). Safeguard is very "meh" and more points in Toughness = more AP from AttT. Otherwise it looks very similar to the build I'll use, except I usually go without Imp. Disarm.
I could take three points out of tactical mastery to finish off Toughness and Focused Rage, otherwise I have no idea where i'd get those points from.
I'd really like imp disarm for PvP.
Keep it, then. It's not a bad talent, just not one that I've ever had enough interest/spare points for.
If you're going for PTR you're going to have to drop 10 talent points and there isn't much outside of Defensive Stance worth switching for except Berserker Rage, so you can drop Arms points and tact mastery for now, being able to charge in combat helps a lot with rage. I'd drop the pts in Anticipation to pick up Focused Rage and Toughness. You can probably do without Puncture, http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhxZfIzrgbzidIzsGo or something similar, depending on how much they buffed revenge it might be easy to drop Imp Revenge points for something else, between charge, conc blow and Shockwave you run into diminishing return on stuns really quickly and Imp Revenge stun won't help you there.