I don't want to derail the thread with my criticism, so the short answer is that I didn't like Planet Hulk for several reasons. I'm not trying to bash it; I only like a certain subset of Hulk stories, and neither Planet Hulk nor WWH are in it.
So... you're saying you don't want to derail a Hulk thread by talking about which Hulks you like and which you don't?
As a fan of Planet Hulk and a newcomer to comics in general I'm interested in hearing about story arcs you thought were better.
I don't want to derail the thread with my criticism, so the short answer is that I didn't like Planet Hulk for several reasons. I'm not trying to bash it; I only like a certain subset of Hulk stories, and neither Planet Hulk nor WWH are in it.
So... you're saying you don't want to derail a Hulk thread by talking about which Hulks you like and which you don't?
As a fan of Planet Hulk and a newcomer to comics in general I'm interested in hearing about story arcs you thought were better.
I guess I felt like this thread isn't supposed to be about just my personal tastes. I'm actually in the thread more for Herc than Hulk.
Generally, I dislike any/all the Hulk stories where he displays a power-level that is cosmic in nature. Examples are (a) his holding millions of tons of mountain above his head to protect the collection of heroes in Secret War (which demands the question of how the spot he was HOLDING was strong enough to support the rest of the mountain, (b) his ability to heal from being thrown in the son, (c) essentially his entire Planet Hulk persona (e.g. beating Black Bolt, though admittedly that was diminished now to beating a Black Bolt Skrull, albeit one that may have had the Power Gem), etc.
To me, the only - and I mean only - interesting Hulk stories are ones less about his actual strength being absurd, and more about the trials and tribulations of Banner and Hulk as people. Here's an example, albeit out of canon: in one of the Marvel vs. DC crossovers, there was a Hulk v. Batman fight, where Batman beat him by boxing him on the ears, then jabbing his solar plexus to make him inhale a sedative. In the same arc, we juxtaposed Hulk and his rage with the Shaper of Worlds, and Joker's madness. It was about Hulk as a superstrong but still limited person, and his emotional issues. The grey-hulk stories focused more on this, generally.
Planet Hulk had good moments in this regard, after diminishing Hulk to an accessible level. If they'd committed to keeping him like that, I would have liked it. By making his regrowth to cosmic power inevitable, though, it ruined the story for me.
WWH was just a nightmare...it was a Hulk wank-a-thon where we got to see Hulk just beat on people he shouldn't be able to beat. Given how much people rage against Loeb's absurd Red-Hulk (e.g. the nonsense with Thor and Mjolnir) I find it baffling how few people complain about Hulk's power level in WWH.
Addendum: one of my favorite Hulk stories is out-of-continuity, I think it was a The End story. It basically featured an immortal Banner, unable to die because he Hulks-out at any violence.
WWH was forgettable, and for all the impact it had it might as well have not happened at all.
It gave us Incredible Herc
This is true: I had zero interest in Hercules until the post-WWH arc (though I still loathe Amadeus), but now I'm a fan. Sacred Invasion has been my favorite part of the whole Skrull-related set of stories.
WWH was forgettable, and for all the impact it had it might as well have not happened at all.
It gave us Incredible Herc
This is true: I had zero interest in Hercules until the post-WWH arc (though I still loathe my crush on Amadeus), but now I'm a fan. Sacred Invasion has been my favorite part of the whole Skrull-related set of stories.
Seriously, why do you hate a really smart kid? Were you like the 2nd smartest kid in your school or something?
sportzboytjw on
Walkerdog on MTGO
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
I don't want to derail the thread with my criticism, so the short answer is that I didn't like Planet Hulk for several reasons. I'm not trying to bash it; I only like a certain subset of Hulk stories, and neither Planet Hulk nor WWH are in it.
So... you're saying you don't want to derail a Hulk thread by talking about which Hulks you like and which you don't?
As a fan of Planet Hulk and a newcomer to comics in general I'm interested in hearing about story arcs you thought were better.
I guess I felt like this thread isn't supposed to be about just my personal tastes. I'm actually in the thread more for Herc than Hulk.
Generally, I dislike any/all the Hulk stories where he displays a power-level that is cosmic in nature. Examples are (a) his holding millions of tons of mountain above his head to protect the collection of heroes in Secret War (which demands the question of how the spot he was HOLDING was strong enough to support the rest of the mountain, (b) his ability to heal from being thrown in the son, (c) essentially his entire Planet Hulk persona (e.g. beating Black Bolt, though admittedly that was diminished now to beating a Black Bolt Skrull, albeit one that may have had the Power Gem), etc.
To me, the only - and I mean only - interesting Hulk stories are ones less about his actual strength being absurd, and more about the trials and tribulations of Banner and Hulk as people. Here's an example, albeit out of canon: in one of the Marvel vs. DC crossovers, there was a Hulk v. Batman fight, where Batman beat him by boxing him on the ears, then jabbing his solar plexus to make him inhale a sedative. In the same arc, we juxtaposed Hulk and his rage with the Shaper of Worlds, and Joker's madness. It was about Hulk as a superstrong but still limited person, and his emotional issues. The grey-hulk stories focused more on this, generally.
Planet Hulk had good moments in this regard, after diminishing Hulk to an accessible level. If they'd committed to keeping him like that, I would have liked it. By making his regrowth to cosmic power inevitable, though, it ruined the story for me.
WWH was just a nightmare...it was a Hulk wank-a-thon where we got to see Hulk just beat on people he shouldn't be able to beat. Given how much people rage against Loeb's absurd Red-Hulk (e.g. the nonsense with Thor and Mjolnir) I find it baffling how few people complain about Hulk's power level in WWH.
Generally I'd agree that having too many uber-powerful characters who end up never being used or becoming deus ex machina devices is a bad thing, but in the Hulk's case I think it's kind of justified. It's always been part of his character that he's basically a force of nature who can't really be stopped. And in theory his power has no upper limit; the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, so in theory as long as he keeps getting angrier he's essentially infintely powerful, at least that's how I've always understood it to work.
fray on
"I told you," said Ford. "Eddies in the space-time continuum."
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
WWH was just a nightmare...it was a Hulk wank-a-thon where we got to see Hulk just beat on people he shouldn't be able to beat. Given how much people rage against Loeb's absurd Red-Hulk (e.g. the nonsense with Thor and Mjolnir) I find it baffling how few people complain about Hulk's power level in WWH.
Couple we please catagorise WWH as being different from Planet Hulk, because i'm in the same boat with it being a pretty damn mehtastic series.
Generally I'd agree that having too many uber-powerful characters who end up never being used or becoming deus ex machina devices is a bad thing, but in the Hulk's case I think it's kind of justified. It's always been part of his character that he's basically a force of nature who can't really be stopped. And in theory his power has no upper limit; the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, so in theory as long as he keeps getting angrier he's essentially infintely powerful, at least that's how I've always understood it to work.
I only agree with you about 50/50: when Hulk was around for the first few decades, his strength was clearly limited to superhuman levels, but not cosmic. I mean, until the 80s (e.g. Secret War) we never saw him demonstrate cosmic levels of regeneration or strength. However, ever since then, he's been treated as the avatar of rage - like those glowing Emotional Spectrum creatures in Green Lantern - even if no one has explicitly explained his power that way. My complaint isn't about inconsistency, but rather taste. As I said initially, it just doesn't fit my taste.
My complaint with WWH isn't that it didn't change forever, but rather that it is lame to write a series about a character where that character beats everyone else's character, despite past canon, and then there are no real repercussions from it.
My feeling is this: you can write characters beating one another, but if it's a major upset (e.g. Hulk being able to beat all the X-Men, or Black Bolt, or whatever) then you need to acknowledge that major change instead of just wiping the slate clean with a magic satellite. If you just want to have a fun story without major implications, that's totally cool, but don't write it as if that story is going to have major implications.
My complaint with WWH isn't that it didn't change forever, but rather that it is lame to write a series about a character where that character beats everyone else's character, despite past canon, and then there are no real repercussions from it.
My feeling is this: you can write characters beating one another, but if it's a major upset (e.g. Hulk being able to beat all the X-Men, or Black Bolt, or whatever) then you need to acknowledge that major change instead of just wiping the slate clean with a magic satellite. If you just want to have a fun story without major implications, that's totally cool, but don't write it as if that story is going to have major implications.
I agree, frankly i wanted Banner to die at the end of WWH. It makes the whole thing a bit more tragic and it ties up the whole Hulk cosmic powerhouse from the Marvel U until his son finds his way to earth.
i was just mad that frankly they trumped the whole WWH arc to be this HUGE world changing event but there were no long term implications and everything returned to the status quo, hell new york was rebuilt so quick it was ridiculous. Incredible Herc is still extremely badass, though...that was a nice result of the whole mess.
I dont remember them ever trumping up WWH to be a world changing event.
In fact I remember specifically that they said many times it was going to be a much smaller event in comparison to Civil War
I can't remember much about the advertising, so I don't disagree with you. That said, when I see "world war" in the title of the event, I think people can be forgiven for thinking it's going to be a big deal (see. e.g. WWIII in D.C.).
I suppose part of the oddness of WWH is that, if you think back, most of the 'events' in either company for the last 5 years or more have had major post-event impacts (at least as far as I recall). WWH was sort of unexpectedly ineffectual.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
I remember someone saying that WWH would be the next Civil War, but I can't remember who.
My largest complaint is that there really was no way to write that story with Hulk as a good guy, and Hulk isn't evil, so they had to write him as essentially losing any intellect he had gained during Planet Hulk.
That did piss me off. I expected Hulk to gain control of the planet and stage an actual large-scale invasion of Earth. I suppose the motivation might not have been there but I dunno they could have thought of something.
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
I actually think we discussed the title thing. Maybe in the last thread.
But hell, why not again? It's the sticking point for me. Christ, at least other big event names are halfway accurate. Secret Invasion? Been going on for years and no one knew. Civil War? American superheroes split down the middle and fight it out over leglislation and ethics. Planet Hulk? There's a planet Hulk lands on that's very well-suited to him and he ends up ruling it. House of M? Alternate reality where mutants are in charge and Magneto rules.
World War Hulk? The Hulk beats up the New-York based superheroes and causes a few hundred million in property damage. Uh, y'know what that used to be called in the Marvel Universe?
Just read that Hulk #6 was the second best selling comic of September. I know some(or most) people will bemoan that but I still think it's an entertaining book. And the next arc we get Frank Cho drawing She-Hulk.
Just read that Hulk #6 was the second best selling comic of September. I know some(or most) people will bemoan that but I still think it's an entertaining book. And the next arc we get Frank Cho drawing She-Hulk.
If the fires of my hatred could make that book sell less, it would be canceled.
Just read that Hulk #6 was the second best selling comic of September. I know some(or most) people will bemoan that but I still think it's an entertaining book. And the next arc we get Frank Cho drawing She-Hulk.
If the fires of my hatred could make that book sell less, it would be canceled.
Or it would be caught sleeping with JG Jones' wife.
Posts
So... you're saying you don't want to derail a Hulk thread by talking about which Hulks you like and which you don't?
As a fan of Planet Hulk and a newcomer to comics in general I'm interested in hearing about story arcs you thought were better.
I guess I felt like this thread isn't supposed to be about just my personal tastes. I'm actually in the thread more for Herc than Hulk.
Generally, I dislike any/all the Hulk stories where he displays a power-level that is cosmic in nature. Examples are (a) his holding millions of tons of mountain above his head to protect the collection of heroes in Secret War (which demands the question of how the spot he was HOLDING was strong enough to support the rest of the mountain, (b) his ability to heal from being thrown in the son, (c) essentially his entire Planet Hulk persona (e.g. beating Black Bolt, though admittedly that was diminished now to beating a Black Bolt Skrull, albeit one that may have had the Power Gem), etc.
To me, the only - and I mean only - interesting Hulk stories are ones less about his actual strength being absurd, and more about the trials and tribulations of Banner and Hulk as people. Here's an example, albeit out of canon: in one of the Marvel vs. DC crossovers, there was a Hulk v. Batman fight, where Batman beat him by boxing him on the ears, then jabbing his solar plexus to make him inhale a sedative. In the same arc, we juxtaposed Hulk and his rage with the Shaper of Worlds, and Joker's madness. It was about Hulk as a superstrong but still limited person, and his emotional issues. The grey-hulk stories focused more on this, generally.
Planet Hulk had good moments in this regard, after diminishing Hulk to an accessible level. If they'd committed to keeping him like that, I would have liked it. By making his regrowth to cosmic power inevitable, though, it ruined the story for me.
WWH was just a nightmare...it was a Hulk wank-a-thon where we got to see Hulk just beat on people he shouldn't be able to beat. Given how much people rage against Loeb's absurd Red-Hulk (e.g. the nonsense with Thor and Mjolnir) I find it baffling how few people complain about Hulk's power level in WWH.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
It gave us Incredible Herc
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
This is true: I had zero interest in Hercules until the post-WWH arc (though I still loathe Amadeus), but now I'm a fan. Sacred Invasion has been my favorite part of the whole Skrull-related set of stories.
Seriously, why do you hate a really smart kid? Were you like the 2nd smartest kid in your school or something?
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
I agree: we've argued through this plenty. He can look it up in this very thread.
Generally I'd agree that having too many uber-powerful characters who end up never being used or becoming deus ex machina devices is a bad thing, but in the Hulk's case I think it's kind of justified. It's always been part of his character that he's basically a force of nature who can't really be stopped. And in theory his power has no upper limit; the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, so in theory as long as he keeps getting angrier he's essentially infintely powerful, at least that's how I've always understood it to work.
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
Couple we please catagorise WWH as being different from Planet Hulk, because i'm in the same boat with it being a pretty damn mehtastic series.
not everything needs to change things forever.
this is a new record
I only agree with you about 50/50: when Hulk was around for the first few decades, his strength was clearly limited to superhuman levels, but not cosmic. I mean, until the 80s (e.g. Secret War) we never saw him demonstrate cosmic levels of regeneration or strength. However, ever since then, he's been treated as the avatar of rage - like those glowing Emotional Spectrum creatures in Green Lantern - even if no one has explicitly explained his power that way. My complaint isn't about inconsistency, but rather taste. As I said initially, it just doesn't fit my taste.
My complaint with WWH isn't that it didn't change forever, but rather that it is lame to write a series about a character where that character beats everyone else's character, despite past canon, and then there are no real repercussions from it.
My feeling is this: you can write characters beating one another, but if it's a major upset (e.g. Hulk being able to beat all the X-Men, or Black Bolt, or whatever) then you need to acknowledge that major change instead of just wiping the slate clean with a magic satellite. If you just want to have a fun story without major implications, that's totally cool, but don't write it as if that story is going to have major implications.
I agree, frankly i wanted Banner to die at the end of WWH. It makes the whole thing a bit more tragic and it ties up the whole Hulk cosmic powerhouse from the Marvel U until his son finds his way to earth.
i was just mad that frankly they trumped the whole WWH arc to be this HUGE world changing event but there were no long term implications and everything returned to the status quo, hell new york was rebuilt so quick it was ridiculous. Incredible Herc is still extremely badass, though...that was a nice result of the whole mess.
In fact I remember specifically that they said many times it was going to be a much smaller event in comparison to Civil War
I can't remember much about the advertising, so I don't disagree with you. That said, when I see "world war" in the title of the event, I think people can be forgiven for thinking it's going to be a big deal (see. e.g. WWIII in D.C.).
I suppose part of the oddness of WWH is that, if you think back, most of the 'events' in either company for the last 5 years or more have had major post-event impacts (at least as far as I recall). WWH was sort of unexpectedly ineffectual.
My largest complaint is that there really was no way to write that story with Hulk as a good guy, and Hulk isn't evil, so they had to write him as essentially losing any intellect he had gained during Planet Hulk.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
What more needs to be said?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
But hell, why not again? It's the sticking point for me. Christ, at least other big event names are halfway accurate. Secret Invasion? Been going on for years and no one knew. Civil War? American superheroes split down the middle and fight it out over leglislation and ethics. Planet Hulk? There's a planet Hulk lands on that's very well-suited to him and he ends up ruling it. House of M? Alternate reality where mutants are in charge and Magneto rules.
World War Hulk? The Hulk beats up the New-York based superheroes and causes a few hundred million in property damage. Uh, y'know what that used to be called in the Marvel Universe?
Tuesday.
If the fires of my hatred could make that book sell less, it would be canceled.
Or it would be caught sleeping with JG Jones' wife.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation