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  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    Welllll I never thought about how the other people feel about it around me. But I mean, if i'm working on it and i meet someone who performs better then me and many people and was younger then me. It would make it all the more easier for me to comprehend there style and magically learn it somehow.

    I do intend to become a artist in some way maybe a illustrator or a fine artist, tested most other things already art is the only thing that seems to be interesting, waiting for Jun 18th for portfolio day to figure out what college i'll be going after my current one.

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    Being taught art for 140 grand seems ridiculous when such a large part of it can be learned independently or through free resources. I dunno, I don't go to art school, so cum grano salis.
    I'm starting to feel the same way about film and creative writing. I'm starting to think that maybe I shouldn't major in both, because it's not really worth taking all the extra classes to do that...I mean, it seems like this is only worth it (mind you, my grand total would be $200,000) if I'm being taught things I really, really can't learn on my own. (Then again, if my financial aid stays the same it will only be costing me $20,000.)

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • DeeLockDeeLock Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Worth it.

    Hey, you should put me in one of your movies! I'm pretty much the best actor in Northern California.

    DeeLock on
  • GrennGrenn Registered User
    edited November 2008
    how much does it bother you when someone like myself, with no design education, does design work?

    I have no design education and I am a graphic designer. Everyone has to start somewhere, so it rarely bothers me at all.

    The only slightly frustrating thing with inexperienced designers is that they grossly undercharge for their work, which can devalue design work in general and potentially affect the incomes of people who do it for a living. Occasionally a client may respond to a quote with, How much?! I have a friend who will do it for *insert low amount here*.

    I usually respond that you get what you pay for.

    But in all honesty, bigger clients know when they are dealing with a kid with a MySpace account and a torrented copy of Photoshop, so it isn't worth complaining about.

    I do wish that younger designers had a bit more business sense though...

    Grenn on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Grenn wrote: »
    how much does it bother you when someone like myself, with no design education, does design work?

    I have no design education and I am a graphic designer. Everyone has to start somewhere, so it rarely bothers me at all.

    The only slightly frustrating thing with inexperienced designers is that they grossly undercharge for their work, which can devalue design work in general and potentially affect the incomes of people who do it for a living. Occasionally a client may respond to a quote with, How much?! I have a friend who will do it for *insert low amount here*.

    I usually respond that you get what you pay for.

    But in all honesty, bigger clients know when they are dealing with a kid with a MySpace account and a torrented copy of Photoshop, so it isn't worth complaining about.

    I do with that younger designers had a bit more business sense though...

    Yeah, some of the things I see would be like Wakkawa charging 20 bucks for finished work.

    Tam on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I really don't know how to put myself out there in the design world. I would definitely do casual commissions, but I don't really get enough of a kick out of it to really try to get out there or do much. I mostly enjoy it because it's kind of like a meditative experience. When I did layout for magazines I could just kind of shut my brain off and do it. I sort of miss that...and Moss's work really makes me want to start actually getting good at it, but I don't know what for.

    I also recently looked through my sketchbook and kind was like "Wait, what the fuck, I'm a lot better at this than I give myself credit for." I think I let my perfectionism and self-conscious attitude when looking at other people's work totally destroy my confidence and ambition as an artist. Now that I know this...perhaps I'll stop? I don't know. I think if I had actually finished more stuff and got a few more sort of asspats or attention, I would be far more confident. A big thing was the fact that no one ever said much, but that's because I never finished anything. What a vicious cycle...

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • VirumVirum Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I'm a film major - I haven't learned anything from my classes at all that I didn't know before going to them - but that's just me and a select few others since I did a lot of independent study. I am very glad that I didn't go to USC or Chapman where I'd be spending 40K a year for .... stuff I already knew.

    The only good think about my film classes is that I made two friends and we really enjoy working with each other - we did something over the summer after our class together, and we'll be doing more as soon as one of them gets back from study-abroad.

    I am looking forward to my cinematography class though, hopefully I get a lot more out of it than my production classes.

    Virum on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    so anyways jenna jamieson is my new neighbour and her crazy boxing boyfriend wackkkkkyyy fun I didn't even know who she was until I saw a bunch of trucks and was like "huh, oh" reminds me of when I kept getting thrown at michael jordan

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • PROXPROX Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    You should deliver a pizza over to her places:winky:

    PROX on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Dude, Virum, that is exactly how I expect my school years to go. I figured I'd hopefully find a few friends I can be close with to get me through it with my sanity intact, and some writing and art classes so that I'm at least forced to keep writing and drawing in my free time. High five for wasting time and investing money just to get a degree that might guarantee that money be paid back later!

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    my school isn't teaching me much new either. the important part is the connections you make with other people, and the resources available for doing independent study. and the degree.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    I wonder if they will invite me over if I tell them I draw stuffz

    also I find that what you learn whether or not you already know it depends how much you focus on it, I felt when i took basic free-hand drawing, that I would not learn anything but I decided not to just blow it off and do my own thing. Rather more I focused intently on the class on everything and studied everything in the subject it helped me a ton with things I would not guess, and the basic reinforcement helped me with other things such as how to see and apply the details.

    Although I think alot of it depends if your surrounded by other motivated students as for friends everyone who I became friends with... Are moving away in like 3 weeks screw being social. OVERRRR IT COMPLETELYYYY

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    my school isn't teaching me much new either. the important part is the connections you make with other people, and the resources available for doing independent study. and the degree.

    That's a lot of time and money to spend for connections and a meaningless piece of paper.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    my school isn't teaching me much new either. the important part is the connections you make with other people, and the resources available for doing independent study. and the degree.

    That's a lot of time and money to spend for connections and a meaningless piece of paper.

    Are there any traditional Italian-style art schools in the US?

    Tam on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    my school isn't teaching me much new either. the important part is the connections you make with other people, and the resources available for doing independent study. and the degree.

    That's a lot of time and money to spend for connections and a meaningless piece of paper.

    A university degree is meaningless? Are you serious?

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    my school isn't teaching me much new either. the important part is the connections you make with other people, and the resources available for doing independent study. and the degree.

    That's a lot of time and money to spend for connections and a meaningless piece of paper.

    A university degree is meaningless? Are you serious?

    Is it in Art?

    Tam on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Mine says "Columbia University" on it, so it's not as meaningless. I mean, it's kind of meaningless to me, but I guess it makes people want to hire me more, even if what I'm learning here is no different than anyone else. Oh psychology, whatever would we do without you.

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well I think Cake was saying that a degree in Art is meaningless. I don't think he means that all of them are- I sure wouldn't call a doctorate in quantum mechanics meaningless.

    Tam on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Degrees are like grades; they don't really tell you're good or smart, they just tell you you made it through what ever courses you were taking.

    MagicToaster on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I've heard, over and over again, from many, many people...

    ...portfolios matter in the art world, not the degree.

    I've even heard of people who never went to college getting top-notch jobs without a degree.

    You may have a hard time being an art director, or teaching overseas, sure.....but you can definitely make a living as an artist without a degree, if your portfolio is strong.

    NightDragon on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    Whenever interviewers ask me about my University art degree I always tell them the same thing, about how I was really dissatisfied with the quality of the education and it really wasted a lot of my time instead of teaching me legitimate skills.

    And probably about 75% of the time I get the response, 'Yeah, that's about what I would expect.'

    Being honest about it may not be the best interview tactic, but art directors and other artists generally know what's what.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I think the same is going to hold true for all forms of art. I'm guessing in film, the more you were involved in and the more executive power you had, the better you look. And unless I want to write for some kind of anthology, I don't think a degree in creative writing means anything more than me becoming a better writer.

    In most forms of art, it's about how good you are (except when you're just selling it, then how good you are could mean nothing).

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Whenever interviewers ask me about my University art degree I always tell them the same thing, about how I was really dissatisfied with the quality of the education and it really wasted a lot of my time instead of teaching me legitimate skills.

    And probably about 75% of the time I get the response, 'Yeah, that's about what I would expect.'

    Being honest about it may not be the best interview tactic, but art directors and other artists generally know what's what.

    I guess I know what I'm going to tell people.

    I have a Creative Writing/Art double major. I've never been under the delusion that I'm going to get a job just on the strength of my degree. I took it to become a better writer and artist, and it's doing that. I'm going to get jobs based on the strength of my writing/editing skills, not my degree.

    But the degree does show you have the commitment to get through a course of study (particularly a heavily theory-based degree like mine is) without shooting yourself and falling out your dorm window.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    But the degree does show you have the commitment

    You never finished that grid study did you

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    the last time i touched anything art-related, it was for that grid study.

    been so busy with graduate applications that i haven't had time for much else

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion before. But its only worth it if you put a ton of effort into it and milk your institution. I don't think anyone thinks the degree is worth more than the portfolio, but I've grown a work ethic that I would not have other wise, and for some people school is absolutely necessary for that.

    Its really only a waste if you decide to waste it, or your insitution is just that bad. I've been having a great experience at MICA though, and have not regretted coming. I'm not sure what happens at other schools that makes so many people feel cheated.

    Iruka on
  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2008
    the last time i touched anything art-related, it was for that grid study.

    been so busy with graduate applications that i haven't had time for much else

    Does that mean 'applications to graduate' or 'applications to grad school'?

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    applications to grad school. going to UBC for creative writing, if all goes well.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sorry but yes, let me clarify, I meant a degree in art. If you are going to go to school and get a degree, I would highly recommend getting your degree in something other than art, even if you plan to be an artist.

    If you want a little perspective on what impact they have you can check Erik Gist's blog, where he has been interviewing art directors and includes the question 'how important is a degree to you?' I think he only has two of them up so far, but I know he sent the interview outs to a few more art directors.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • srsizzysrsizzy Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    the last time i touched anything art-related, it was for that grid study.

    been so busy with graduate applications that i haven't had time for much else

    Does that mean 'applications to graduate' or 'applications to grad school'?
    You've finished your four years of college, now tell us why you deserve to graduate!

    srsizzy on
    BRO LET ME GET REAL WITH YOU AND SAY THAT MY FINGERS ARE PREPPED AND HOT LIKE THE SURFACE OF THE SUN TO BRING RADICAL BEATS SO SMOOTH THE SHIT WILL BE MEDICINAL-GRADE TRIPNASTY MAKING ALL BRAINWAVES ROLL ON THE SURFACE OF A BALLS-FEISTY NEURAL RAINBOW CRACKA-LACKIN' YOUR PERCEPTION OF THE HERE-NOW SPACE-TIME SITUATION THAT ALL OF LIFE BE JAMMED UP IN THROUGH THE UNIVERSAL FLOW BEATS
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Sorry but yes, let me clarify, I meant a degree in art. If you are going to go to school and get a degree, I would highly recommend getting your degree in something other than art, even if you plan to be an artist.

    If you want a little perspective on what impact they have you can check Erik Gist's blog, where he has been interviewing art directors and includes the question 'how important is a degree to you?' I think he only has two of them up so far, but I know he sent the interview outs to a few more art directors.
    Zero. It is all about their talent and the work they produce. However, there are many corporate jobs that will not look at your resume unless you have a degree. H.R. departments live to check boxes.

    This is all I'm saying. In this light, the degree at least helps you get the foot in the door, so calling it meaningless is kind of shortsighted. Understand that I look at employability outside of just art-related fields, as well.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Well I am definitely aimed at freelance illustration, not corporate graphic design. And there are very few game companies who would hire someone whose work is shittier than yours just because they have a degree..so concept art even when it isn't freelance still doesn't require a degree. And fine art? Of course that doesn't require a degree.

    There aren't too many fields of art that require a degree...and I for one do not consider graphic design to be art...even if it is a creative pursuit and it is definitely something you can be great or terrible at...I do not apply the term art as broadly as most people do. I used to do graphic design for a living by the way.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Well I am definitely aimed at freelance illustration, not corporate graphic design. And there are very few game companies who would hire someone whose work is shittier than yours just because they have a degree..so concept art even when it isn't freelance still doesn't require a degree. And fine art? Of course that doesn't require a degree.

    There aren't too many fields of art that require a degree...and I for one do not consider graphic design to be art...even if it is a creative pursuit and it is definitely something you can be great or terrible at...I do not apply the term art as broadly as most people do. I used to do graphic design for a living by the way.

    Well lets say two people perform exceptionally well, One has a degree and one does not, if both people perform very good work and you only can really hire one person an degree will help decide I suppose. The work might vary though of course and then whichever one is more flexible may help you decide. But i'm sure it shows something of good quality to have a degree. I personally take the classes because it does indeed help me.

    Although I do understand what you mean cake I've seen alot of shitty artist in art university's and Laguna art college. lol Portfolio in my opinion would be 85% the degree would just be a extra little hint of flavor that might atleast "promise" something good.

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Loomdun wrote: »
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Well I am definitely aimed at freelance illustration, not corporate graphic design. And there are very few game companies who would hire someone whose work is shittier than yours just because they have a degree..so concept art even when it isn't freelance still doesn't require a degree. And fine art? Of course that doesn't require a degree.

    There aren't too many fields of art that require a degree...and I for one do not consider graphic design to be art...even if it is a creative pursuit and it is definitely something you can be great or terrible at...I do not apply the term art as broadly as most people do. I used to do graphic design for a living by the way.

    Well lets say two people perform exceptionally well, One has a degree and one does not, if both people perform very good work and you only can really hire one person an degree will help decide I suppose.

    I'd go to personality and interpersonal skills next, actually. The degree would come in dead last on the priority chain of qualifying criteria in an art field.

    Tam on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    I personally feel to spend the time in art colleges myself though to build alllll the basic understanding skills of everything. I mean, it is just ridiculous in my opinion to set your life on illustration or Fine art and think your to good to understand how something is created. Like for instance some people have been at my college for 2 years and they have yet to take a human anatomy art class which is the study of the skeleton and muscle structure. How can you bare draw the figure and not understand why it is like that??

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This is why you need to pay attention to grammar Loomdun, because reading that gave me the impression you were contradicting yourself, but I don't know. When you are trying to convey information, ambiguity is not a good thing.

    Tam on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2008
    meh I hate english as to how everyone else in the world hates math. I have been naturally bad at english since I was a wee little baby and amazing at math. And by bad I mean slightly mentally retarded in that subject

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Cake, I'm curious, what is your definition of art.

    Tam on
  • FlayFlay Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I've applied for a couple of art courses for university, and although they're not my first preference, I just can't make up my mind as to whether I would really go through with it. I mean, on one hand I'd absolutely love to devote a whole few years to improving my arts, but there's also all the negatives that have been listed above.

    Flay on
  • Stupid Mr Whoopsie NameStupid Mr Whoopsie Name Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Tam, smell this milk.

    Stupid Mr Whoopsie Name on
This discussion has been closed.