Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?
Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?
Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
Not anything that'll do more than bounce off Ultron's force fields or armor.
Furu on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?
Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.
Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?
Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.
Dude.
Fucking Galactus loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. They're pretty much the king badasses of Earth.
Mai-Kero on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
And exactly what keep Ultron from punching Doom's head clean off before then?
Also Ultron changes himself with every model. Those schematics are so out of date it's ridiculous. He might as well have a schematic of a toaster oven.
So you're saying that Doom doesn't have any counter measures that could buy him a bit of time from something as simple as a super powered punch?
This is one fight were Doom can't pull a Doom. It's pretty much ultra-deadly, psychotic killer robot who fucks up the majority of the Marvel Universe vs. a guy that loses to the Fantastic 4 on a regular basis.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.
Dude.
Fucking Galactus loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. They're pretty much the king badasses of Earth.
Doom has the president declare war on Ultron. Before Ultron can do any computer magic he finds himself at odds with some of the greatest heros in the United States who have been beckoned to defend the nation by a quivering and cowering president under Doom's control. If Doom built his own Ultron then he clearly knows the schematics so exploiting technicalities to keep himself safe while everyone else does the work won't be too much of a trouble as long as he doesn't go toe to toe.
Two headache scale matches! Regardless of how it ends we have an awesome final match up.
Ultron is great but Doom is just so much more devious there must be many ways for Doom to trick/fool/surprise Ultron. Maybe if they were locked inside a UFC cage Ultron would win but Doom isn't going to simply trade punches.
Vote: Doom
Loki vs Nimrod in the phantom zone... How can Loki not win? It's magic vs super science, a close call but Loki must prevail!
Two headache scale matches! Regardless of how it ends we have an awesome final match up.
Ultron is great but Doom is just so much more devious there must be many ways for Doom to trick/fool/surprise Ultron. Maybe if they were locked inside a UFC cage Ultron would win but Doom isn't going to simply trade punches.
Vote: Doom
Loki vs Nimrod in the phantom zone... How can Loki not win? It's magic vs super science, a close call but Loki must prevail!
Doom vs Loki PPV coming up!
No see.
This is "I take on the Avengers on a regular basis" Ultron.
When I said counter measure for something as simple as a physical punch I didn't mean being able to take the punch. Doom just had to avoid it long enough for his plan to go into action. Considering the sheer number of heros and villians who want what Doom has or simply want to kill him I think he's damn good at avoiding a physical confrontation. This is silly. People are putting Ultron at his best but Doom at a mediocore level of power. Fucking silly.
DasUberEdward on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited January 2007
Since everyone wants to see both, can we do Nimrod vs Ultron and Doom vs Loki instead?
Fencingsax on
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Psychotic OneThe Lord of No PantsParts UnknownRegistered Userregular
edited January 2007
Doom beat the thing in hand to hand combat according to his wiki and can probably summon an electrical storm in ultron's insides. And push comes to shove he could just use a bullet made of anti-metal and blow Ultron apart. Why is everyone so quick to discount Doom as a contender here?
When I said counter measure for something as simple as a physical punch I didn't mean being able to take the punch. Doom just had to avoid it long enough for his plan to go into action. Considering the sheer number of heros and villians who want what Doom has or simply want to kill him I think he's damn good at avoiding a physical confrontation. This is silly. People are putting Ultron at his best but Doom at a mediocore level of power. Fucking silly.
That's because Doom is at his best when fighting on his own terms, either in his country or with a complex plan beforehand. He has neither here.
I've hesitated to bring this up since it probably invalidates about 20% of the match ups.
Many villians and heros derive a substantial portion of their power from their considerable resources--finacial, political, technological etc. In a battle match up, these resources must be considered. Asking Batman, for example, to do battle without his considerable list of contacts and finances is completely equivalent to asking him to do battle without his utility belt. It is also equivalent to asking spiderman to fight with a broken arm, since his resources are mostly physical.
This means that not only is the actually implemented environment of the Doom's holoprojector world critical (eg. Batman in Gotham vs. Batman in New York), but so is the very nature of the holoprojector itself!
Let's take the Ultron/Doom fight as an example. Doom has great personal power, but also derives much of his power from his resources. Vic knows this fight will be difficult so he pulls out a cell-phone and calls his aide-de-campe in Latveria. "Scramble the airforce, launch the ICBMs, and give me control of the orbital mind-control lasers." that sort of thing. Unfortunately, there's no signal, or maybe he get's the real Latveria instead of holo-latveria. In any case he cannot access his resources.
This paradox arises because the holoprojector creates only the environment specified, and many characters derive their power, in part or in whole from their access to material in non-created environments. It is brutally unfair to deny high resource characters access to their powers. It is exactly equivalent to requiring say, Cyclops to fight with a de-activated X-gene. How do we resolve the environment the holoprojector creates with the environments it fails to create?
I would not worry about Doom lacking resources, the moment Ultron starts to tear up DC (which he will, find doom AND kill fleshy ones!) he will simply use diplomacy with the current President. Doom will offer to save them all from this robotic villan menace, but he will need all the resources of the state of defense signed over to him NOW, plus it leaves the president owing a dept to Doom.
At that point the army is called in to distract Ultron for a few minutes while Doom figures a plan out.
Doom beat the thing in hand to hand combat according to his wiki and can probably summon an electrical storm in ultron's insides. And push comes to shove he could just use a bullet made of anti-metal and blow Ultron apart. Why is everyone so quick to discount Doom as a contender here?
Ultron is much, much stronger, faster and smarter than the Thing. The Thing's a really good fighter, but Ultron is a better one by virtue of his incredible robot intellect.
The Thing has physically bested Doom several times, and is generally stronger than Doom.
Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.
Ultron has personal armaments that can single-handedly incapacitate even the strongest of Avengers.
While he may not have time to lay a complex, ten-point scheme, I humbly submit that Doom has likely established a number of "sudden giant robot attack" contingencies. Nanobot attacks, portals to hell dimensions, etc. What would be fun is to see him and Ultron both trying to manipulate the US military into attacking their opponent with false transmissions and subterfuge. In the end, though, I've gotta give the win to Doom's diabolical intellect.
Didn't Doom, during the first Secret Wars, build his own fucking Ultron robot? So wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would know EXACTLY how to stop/break/fuck up an Ultron robot?
I mean he does have a supergenius intellect, you'd think he'd consider that his Ultron might go apeshit and make sure he knows exactly how to stop it.
Didn't Doom, during the first Secret Wars, build his own fucking Ultron robot? So wouldn't it be safe to assume that he would know EXACTLY how to stop/break/fuck up an Ultron robot?
I mean he does have a supergenius intellect, you'd think he'd consider that his Ultron might go apeshit and make sure he knows exactly how to stop it.
He would know how to take down that particular version of Ultron. Others have mentioned that Ultron has been upgraded over the years, so im guessing that the version he is up against now is different than the one he built.
Doom's ability to jump from body to body shouldn't be discounted in this fight. It kind of gives him a few thousand extra mans. Also, can't Doom just open a portal to hell and drop Ulltron into it? (If anyone can scan up some of those images where doom is kicking the ass of the FF in his magic armor, that would be great). And even if Doom can't just drop Ultron into hell, can't he shoot him with hellfire or magic beams or something? I mean, magic should be something that can harm his "invulnerable" adamantium body. . .
And as far as the Nimrod/Loki matchup, can someone explain what's exactly in the phantom zone? I only know it from the movies and cartoons. Is it full of prisoners that Superman couldn't bring himself to kill/are too strong and dangerous to be let free?
Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.
If it punches through him how is it not doing significant damage to his insides? If you punch a hole through something that includes the insides meaning that section of insides will be missing.
Would Doom really want to spend any amount of time in the flabby, syphilitic body of a DC politician, much less inside any of the number of even less remarkable citizens of the city?
And I'd have thought magic would be less effective on someone without a soul.
Posts
Not anything that'll do more than bounce off Ultron's force fields or armor.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Nimrod is so fucked.
Dude.
Fucking Galactus loses to the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. They're pretty much the king badasses of Earth.
Well see.
Ultrons kind of done that before.
RICHAAAAARDS!
The only thing that bothers him there is Scarlet Witch, and that's not even real magic.
Srsly, all of the Dr. Strange/Dr. Doom comic was pretty much "DOOM NEEDS NO ONE!"
Or did Marvel already de-power him following that?
My digital art! http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=8168
My pen and paper art! http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=7462
re: but loki and doom would be interesting too
dont care what anyone says. Dr. Doom could beat Batman. [and yes batman could be holding the keys to the dolorian and it still wouldnt matter]
Luke Cage beat him! Spider-Man beat him!
Only because it furthers Doom's plans and machinations so subtle your puny mind could not comprehend their greatness.
Hindsight infallibility.
I meant for everything to happen.
*Does not include things like sundering the multiverse just to darn your socks. Or whatever. Varying levels of omnipotence my arse.
Yeah but he owed Luke Cage money and that is not a man you want to owe money to
Ultron is great but Doom is just so much more devious there must be many ways for Doom to trick/fool/surprise Ultron. Maybe if they were locked inside a UFC cage Ultron would win but Doom isn't going to simply trade punches.
Vote: Doom
Loki vs Nimrod in the phantom zone... How can Loki not win? It's magic vs super science, a close call but Loki must prevail!
Doom vs Loki PPV coming up!
No see.
This is "I take on the Avengers on a regular basis" Ultron.
That's because Doom is at his best when fighting on his own terms, either in his country or with a complex plan beforehand. He has neither here.
you sir need a gold medal
Many villians and heros derive a substantial portion of their power from their considerable resources--finacial, political, technological etc. In a battle match up, these resources must be considered. Asking Batman, for example, to do battle without his considerable list of contacts and finances is completely equivalent to asking him to do battle without his utility belt. It is also equivalent to asking spiderman to fight with a broken arm, since his resources are mostly physical.
This means that not only is the actually implemented environment of the Doom's holoprojector world critical (eg. Batman in Gotham vs. Batman in New York), but so is the very nature of the holoprojector itself!
Let's take the Ultron/Doom fight as an example. Doom has great personal power, but also derives much of his power from his resources. Vic knows this fight will be difficult so he pulls out a cell-phone and calls his aide-de-campe in Latveria. "Scramble the airforce, launch the ICBMs, and give me control of the orbital mind-control lasers." that sort of thing. Unfortunately, there's no signal, or maybe he get's the real Latveria instead of holo-latveria. In any case he cannot access his resources.
This paradox arises because the holoprojector creates only the environment specified, and many characters derive their power, in part or in whole from their access to material in non-created environments. It is brutally unfair to deny high resource characters access to their powers. It is exactly equivalent to requiring say, Cyclops to fight with a de-activated X-gene. How do we resolve the environment the holoprojector creates with the environments it fails to create?
At that point the army is called in to distract Ultron for a few minutes while Doom figures a plan out.
Also, Nimrod is right screwed for this match.
Ultron is much, much stronger, faster and smarter than the Thing. The Thing's a really good fighter, but Ultron is a better one by virtue of his incredible robot intellect.
The Thing has physically bested Doom several times, and is generally stronger than Doom.
Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.
Ultron has personal armaments that can single-handedly incapacitate even the strongest of Avengers.
Oh, and Nimrod's done. Loki advances.
I mean he does have a supergenius intellect, you'd think he'd consider that his Ultron might go apeshit and make sure he knows exactly how to stop it.
He would know how to take down that particular version of Ultron. Others have mentioned that Ultron has been upgraded over the years, so im guessing that the version he is up against now is different than the one he built.
And as far as the Nimrod/Loki matchup, can someone explain what's exactly in the phantom zone? I only know it from the movies and cartoons. Is it full of prisoners that Superman couldn't bring himself to kill/are too strong and dangerous to be let free?
If it punches through him how is it not doing significant damage to his insides? If you punch a hole through something that includes the insides meaning that section of insides will be missing.
And I'd have thought magic would be less effective on someone without a soul.