In the future, we'll probably see more interactive-cinematics as graphics improve. These usually come along with some kind of timed button-pressing mini-game. I can only think of three really good examples of what I'm talking about right now:
-The final battle in Kingdom Hearts 2 had you chopping buildings in half and other ridiculous things at the timed press of a button
-Finishing boss battles in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed always involved a timed button-sequence
-Certain key story points in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm were recreated this way
It's one way that you can have your main character do something really cool and flashy that isn't normally coded into their movement, and still not break the immersion or the feeling that "you" are really doing it. Sure, it's not overly challenging to wait for a button prompt but it does keep you involved and when it's done well it can produce awesome results.
Oh goodness no, I hate these things with unspeakable passion. You can't watch the cutscene or take anything in, you're too busy waiting for the next press and getting frustrated when you cock it up. Those things can get shot in the eyes.
So what would you rather have instead? Avoid the flashy scene all-together? What about situations like the above naruto game where you are trying to recreate the feel and a particular scene from the show?
In the future, we'll probably see more interactive-cinematics as graphics improve. These usually come along with some kind of timed button-pressing mini-game. I can only think of three really good examples of what I'm talking about right now:
-The final battle in Kingdom Hearts 2 had you chopping buildings in half and other ridiculous things at the timed press of a button
-Finishing boss battles in Star Wars: The Force Unleashed always involved a timed button-sequence
-Certain key story points in Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm were recreated this way
It's one way that you can have your main character do something really cool and flashy that isn't normally coded into their movement, and still not break the immersion or the feeling that "you" are really doing it. Sure, it's not overly challenging to wait for a button prompt but it does keep you involved and when it's done well it can produce awesome results.
Oh goodness no, I hate these things with unspeakable passion. You can't watch the cutscene or take anything in, you're too busy waiting for the next press and getting frustrated when you cock it up. Those things can get shot in the eyes.
So what would you rather have instead? Avoid the flashy scene all-together? What about situations like the above naruto game where you are trying to recreate the feel and a particular scene from the show?
Something that actually lets me watch the scene or play the scene, but not play Simon Says over the scene.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
Quick time events are okay with me as long as they are not instant-failure
Like if I screw up I should lose some health or be a disadvantage or maybe even have a portion of the level closed off to me
There are several QTEs in God of War that were awesome and saying "All QTEs suck" is just as flawed as saying "All cutscenes suck" or "All X suck" and for gods sake people no one will take us seriously if we cannot recognize that a specific tool being used is not an automatic indication of quality.
Quick time events are the bane of the Devil. Ever played Resident Evil 4? Remember the knife fight? Imagine going through all roughly 7 events, then fuck up the last one just to DO IT AGAIN, except the buttons change randomly! So you never get to watch the actual battle or listen to the talking, You're waiting for a fucking A, B, Y, X, Square, or triangle.
I had something else but reading about someone liking QTEs kinda threw me off.
Oh, I remember. I prefer first person cutscenes in a FPS. I believe the best example may be the cutscene in Bioshock when you finally meet Andrew Ryan. Granted, it worked best because of the setting and circumstances. I wonder though, would that whole section been messed up if it was transfered to a 3rd person view, or could it have kept the magic?
Edit: Plus games that are cinematic heavy need a way to view cutscenes from the menu.
God of War is a really, really bad example of how to use QTEs well, actually.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
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AJRSome guy who wrestlesNorwichRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
The quick time events were the largest reason behind why I stopped playing God of War. I just got to a point where I couldn’t stand doing them any more.
Well, they took a big step with Force Unleashed and made them very difficult to screw up. Maybe not the ones for mini-bosses - I remember if I messed up against a Rancor I had to start all over again. But the final bosses, once you were in the event you couldn't screw it up. You might miss the prompt and the same scene would replay until you got it right (which I admit is akward and stupid), but you weren't punished for making a mistake.
I agree that their big draw-back is making you miss a lot of what's going on because you're too focused on the button prompts. Like in Force Unleashed when:
you fight Proxy for the last time and he surprises you with the Darth Maul module. The QTE to finish the fight is really long and requires you to pay attention to the bottom of the screen so you end up missing most of the awesome Apprentice vs. Maul action going on.
The only time I have a problem with cutscenes is when they are placed in a game that they clearly do not belong in.
For example: in a typical action-heavy FPS, I expect far more action than story. Usually I'm expecting some kind of mission briefing, then a ton of action and killing mans and headshots. Trying to cram story cutscenes into Unreal Tournament, for example, is irritating and bad. I don't expect them and I don't want them and my tolerance for them is extremely low please let me kill people.
However, when I'm playing a JRPG I expect story coming out of every orifice. Exposition comes flying at me from all angles. I expect this and am looking forward to some cutscenes with a bunch of story related content because I'm not getting story from battles (usually). Cutscenes as a storytelling tool fit right in with the structure of a JRPG (or western RPG, for that matter. I just play more JRPGs than WRPGs).
Basically what I'm saying is the genre of your game determines your audience's tolerance for amount of story vs. amount of action and if you go against these expectations it usually ends up annoying people (most likely because you're not good at it) except in rare cases because there are always exceptions and I'm pretty sure someone's going to reply to my post with 'Deus Ex' or 'Bioshock' or something.
So I will clarify by saying when I talk about FPS games I mean Unreal Tournament and Counter-Strike and Quake and Call of Duty and not the FPS-RPG hybrid games.
God of War is a really, really bad example of how to use QTEs well, actually.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
So like how 90% of God of War QTEs are?
Maybe they changed it for Chains of Olympus and I just didn't actually notice for the first two, but in CoO a lot of enemies, most of the ones by the end of the game, were completely optional. You would either hit someone a few more times or do the QTE to finish them, and if you didn't want to do the QTE you didn't have to, and if you messed up you'd lose some health.
God of War is a really, really bad example of how to use QTEs well, actually.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
So like how 90% of God of War QTEs are?
Maybe they changed it for Chains of Olympus and I just didn't actually notice for the first two, but in CoO a lot of enemies, most of the ones by the end of the game, were completely optional. You would either hit someone a few more times or do the QTE to finish them, and if you didn't want to do the QTE you didn't have to, and if you messed up you'd lose some health.
They were optional except for some of the bosses, but using the QTEs yielded benefits including faster deaths.
The only time I have a problem with cutscenes is when they are placed in a game that they clearly do not belong in.
For example: in a typical action-heavy FPS, I expect far more action than story. Usually I'm expecting some kind of mission briefing, then a ton of action and killing mans and headshots. Trying to cram story cutscenes into Unreal Tournament, for example, is irritating and bad. I don't expect them and I don't want them and my tolerance for them is extremely low please let me kill people.
However, when I'm playing a JRPG I expect story coming out of every orifice. Exposition comes flying at me from all angles. I expect this and am looking forward to some cutscenes with a bunch of story related content because I'm not getting story from battles (usually). Cutscenes as a storytelling tool fit right in with the structure of a JRPG (or western RPG, for that matter. I just play more JRPGs than WRPGs).
Basically what I'm saying is the genre of your game determines your audience's tolerance for amount of story vs. amount of action and if you go against these expectations it usually ends up annoying people (most likely because you're not good at it) except in rare cases because there are always exceptions and I'm pretty sure someone's going to reply to my post with 'Deus Ex' or 'Bioshock' or something.
So I will clarify by saying when I talk about FPS games I mean Unreal Tournament and Counter-Strike and Quake and Call of Duty and not the FPS-RPG hybrid games.
Got a really good point. Unreal Tournament should be about a tournament. If I want a cutscene in this, I want it to be my character coming down a ramp a-la wrestling. The first UT made sense on this part.
God of War is a really, really bad example of how to use QTEs well, actually.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
So like how 90% of God of War QTEs are?
Maybe they changed it for Chains of Olympus and I just didn't actually notice for the first two, but in CoO a lot of enemies, most of the ones by the end of the game, were completely optional. You would either hit someone a few more times or do the QTE to finish them, and if you didn't want to do the QTE you didn't have to, and if you messed up you'd lose some health.
They were optional except for some of the bosses, but using the QTEs yielded benefits including faster deaths.
Which is why I used it as an example for how to use QTEs well.
God of War is a really, really bad example of how to use QTEs well, actually.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
So like how 90% of God of War QTEs are?
Maybe they changed it for Chains of Olympus and I just didn't actually notice for the first two, but in CoO a lot of enemies, most of the ones by the end of the game, were completely optional. You would either hit someone a few more times or do the QTE to finish them, and if you didn't want to do the QTE you didn't have to, and if you messed up you'd lose some health.
They were optional except for some of the bosses, but using the QTEs yielded benefits including faster deaths.
Which is why I used it as an example for how to use QTEs well.
Frankly, I think games should ideally allow you to skip any and all content. Sure, you can have the "actually completed the dang game" achievement or something, but I don't see why if I'm renting a game for the really cool bits I shouldn't be able to skip to them.
Or at the very least, make the difficulty level adjustable without starting over again, and make 'Easy' actually forgiving. Many games simply tone down the damage received in combat and leave the most frustrating moments of gameplay totally unchanged across all difficulty settings. Slipping and falling in some stupid, out of place platforming sequence still equals instant death, not moving quick enough in some tacked-on driving sequence or gunning down waves of incoming enemies fast enough in an ill-advised rail-shooter sequence does the same. Instead, let us turn down the challenge in order to move on with the story. Maybe passing up a couple achievements in the process, just to ensure that players who persevere are rewarded.
1. While playing a game, you are playing the role of a character
2. That character is engaged in a series of events
3. While controlling that character, you cause events, react to events, and interact with events and environments
4. Sometimes, stuff happens in the series of events of the character you are contolling that you are not in control of. Thus, you observe these things.
Seriously folks, in most games you as the player can run, jump, shoot, drive, use items in a limited way, open doors and chests, and start conversation trees. How do you tell a complex, multi-character story with just that. The answer is you can't. The player can not make an entire game happen on his or her own. The game has to be bigger than player, meaning that not everything that happens on screen happened because you pushed a button.
Life is the ultimate interactive experience, but, if you look carefully, you'll notice a shitton of stuff happening outside of your control.
/I do think more cutscenes should be Half Life style in engine with movement cutscenes
//And its ridiculuous that all cutscenes are skippable, pausable, and rewatchable.
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ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I'm split on cutscenes.
In some instances they help the story along, make it flow better. In other games they are jarring and distracting to your main objective.
I do think its a major flaw that a game *HAS* to have cut scenes. Hearing that fallout 3 does NOT have cut scenes actually makes me want to play it even more. I will say that screwing around in halo 3's cut scenes have been quite entertaining. Dropping equipment and/or piles of dead bodies to make the scene much more silly.
"be it labor big or small, do it well or not at all."
Something that actually lets me watch the scene or play the scene, but not play Simon Says over the scene.
having actually played through naruto, i really enjoyed the scenes. simon says or not... cause where they happen to be, it makes sense. getting it right and quickly gives off the correct feeling. and they dont interfere with the scene in itself in fact. after you do it (right or wrong) it picks up and you can watch the (actual) action scene fine...
and if you get it wrong, you just lose health and can do it again and again (till you lose health of course)
so watching the awesome action after getting the QTE right is sort of like a little reward for the trouble haha
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We should have been over them after Dragon's Lair.
So what would you rather have instead? Avoid the flashy scene all-together? What about situations like the above naruto game where you are trying to recreate the feel and a particular scene from the show?
I love cutscenes, hell I played Xenosaga and liked it. Like most people I agree they should all be pause/skip-able though.
Something that actually lets me watch the scene or play the scene, but not play Simon Says over the scene.
Like if I screw up I should lose some health or be a disadvantage or maybe even have a portion of the level closed off to me
I shouldn't just die, that's lame and/or gay
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I had something else but reading about someone liking QTEs kinda threw me off.
Oh, I remember. I prefer first person cutscenes in a FPS. I believe the best example may be the cutscene in Bioshock when you finally meet Andrew Ryan. Granted, it worked best because of the setting and circumstances. I wonder though, would that whole section been messed up if it was transfered to a 3rd person view, or could it have kept the magic?
Edit: Plus games that are cinematic heavy need a way to view cutscenes from the menu.
If present, they should at the very least be optional.
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I agree that their big draw-back is making you miss a lot of what's going on because you're too focused on the button prompts. Like in Force Unleashed when:
For example: in a typical action-heavy FPS, I expect far more action than story. Usually I'm expecting some kind of mission briefing, then a ton of action and killing mans and headshots. Trying to cram story cutscenes into Unreal Tournament, for example, is irritating and bad. I don't expect them and I don't want them and my tolerance for them is extremely low please let me kill people.
However, when I'm playing a JRPG I expect story coming out of every orifice. Exposition comes flying at me from all angles. I expect this and am looking forward to some cutscenes with a bunch of story related content because I'm not getting story from battles (usually). Cutscenes as a storytelling tool fit right in with the structure of a JRPG (or western RPG, for that matter. I just play more JRPGs than WRPGs).
Basically what I'm saying is the genre of your game determines your audience's tolerance for amount of story vs. amount of action and if you go against these expectations it usually ends up annoying people (most likely because you're not good at it) except in rare cases because there are always exceptions and I'm pretty sure someone's going to reply to my post with 'Deus Ex' or 'Bioshock' or something.
So I will clarify by saying when I talk about FPS games I mean Unreal Tournament and Counter-Strike and Quake and Call of Duty and not the FPS-RPG hybrid games.
Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
Forget it...
So like how 90% of God of War QTEs are?
Maybe they changed it for Chains of Olympus and I just didn't actually notice for the first two, but in CoO a lot of enemies, most of the ones by the end of the game, were completely optional. You would either hit someone a few more times or do the QTE to finish them, and if you didn't want to do the QTE you didn't have to, and if you messed up you'd lose some health.
They were optional except for some of the bosses, but using the QTEs yielded benefits including faster deaths.
Got a really good point. Unreal Tournament should be about a tournament. If I want a cutscene in this, I want it to be my character coming down a ramp a-la wrestling. The first UT made sense on this part.
Which is why I used it as an example for how to use QTEs well.
I don't really know what Xargrath's point was.
I'm looking at you, Mirror's Edge.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
What about the 10% that aren't optional?
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Or at the very least, make the difficulty level adjustable without starting over again, and make 'Easy' actually forgiving. Many games simply tone down the damage received in combat and leave the most frustrating moments of gameplay totally unchanged across all difficulty settings. Slipping and falling in some stupid, out of place platforming sequence still equals instant death, not moving quick enough in some tacked-on driving sequence or gunning down waves of incoming enemies fast enough in an ill-advised rail-shooter sequence does the same. Instead, let us turn down the challenge in order to move on with the story. Maybe passing up a couple achievements in the process, just to ensure that players who persevere are rewarded.
1. While playing a game, you are playing the role of a character
2. That character is engaged in a series of events
3. While controlling that character, you cause events, react to events, and interact with events and environments
4. Sometimes, stuff happens in the series of events of the character you are contolling that you are not in control of. Thus, you observe these things.
Seriously folks, in most games you as the player can run, jump, shoot, drive, use items in a limited way, open doors and chests, and start conversation trees. How do you tell a complex, multi-character story with just that. The answer is you can't. The player can not make an entire game happen on his or her own. The game has to be bigger than player, meaning that not everything that happens on screen happened because you pushed a button.
Life is the ultimate interactive experience, but, if you look carefully, you'll notice a shitton of stuff happening outside of your control.
/I do think more cutscenes should be Half Life style in engine with movement cutscenes
//And its ridiculuous that all cutscenes are skippable, pausable, and rewatchable.
Someone let me algorhythm (steve_0990) into the PA Steam group
In some instances they help the story along, make it flow better. In other games they are jarring and distracting to your main objective.
I do think its a major flaw that a game *HAS* to have cut scenes. Hearing that fallout 3 does NOT have cut scenes actually makes me want to play it even more. I will say that screwing around in halo 3's cut scenes have been quite entertaining. Dropping equipment and/or piles of dead bodies to make the scene much more silly.
"be it labor big or small, do it well or not at all."
and if you get it wrong, you just lose health and can do it again and again (till you lose health of course)
so watching the awesome action after getting the QTE right is sort of like a little reward for the trouble haha