magic is in and of itself an illogical concept, so something designed specifically to be weak to that sort of thing will be going down fast and hard
I'm not saying Ultron would understand it, but that doesn't mean it would hurt him more. Isn't there supposed to be some kind of connection between the strength of the supernatural and faith in the supernatural?
How could Ultron even enter a meta-physical plane like Hell when he's nothing but a physical being?
Doom doesn't have an anti-metal bullet. Also, one anti-metal bullet is just going to punch right through Ultron and do no significant damage to his insides.
If it punches through him how is it not doing significant damage to his insides? If you punch a hole through something that includes the insides meaning that section of insides will be missing.
Are Ultron's insides packed to overflowing with nothing but extremely vital components? Is he unable to function with even the smallest wire being damaged?
No. Ultron is not full of cogs, he is full of servomotors, power supplies, wiring and most of all: empty space. The bullet is likely to pass through Ultron while completely missing anything vital. Also: forcefields. Anti-metal doesn't do shit against forcefields. And Ultron has lots of forcefields.
And what vital systems might get hit would probably have several back-ups. Ultron is smart enough to build himself with redundant.
And there is the fact that a bullethole is only the size of a bullet. It does not inflict damage on a very large area.
The only thing an anti-metal bullet (that Doom doesn't have, by the way) would do is create a very small, rather difficult to exploit opening for Doom to fuck some of Ultron's insides up.
And magic blasts do nothing against Adamantium if they're not meant to rearrange shit on a molecular level. Hellfire works on people's souls and is otherwise just particularly hot fire. Ultron has no soul and is rather heat-resistant.
So no.
And Doom lost his major magic mojo. Now he's back to regular level Doom power.
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of connection between the strength of the supernatural and faith in the supernatural?
Only in Final Fantasy Tactics.
But since Ultron is sentient, does that not mean he has a soul of some sort? Eh? Eh?
Actually, to put forth a real argument, in Evolve or Die Spider-man fights the god of machines. What's his name? Tracer? Something. Anyway, in it he says that even machines have souls, or something to that effect.
So, since machines do have a god, that therefore means they have souls, which can be sent to hell, or the machine equivalent of hell.
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of connection between the strength of the supernatural and faith in the supernatural?
Only in Final Fantasy Tactics.
But since Ultron is sentient, does that not mean he has a soul of some sort? Eh? Eh?
Actually, to put forth a real argument, in Evolve or Die Spider-man fights the god of machines. What's his name? Tracer? Something. Anyway, in it he says that even machines have souls, or something to that effect.
So, since machines do have a god, that therefore means they have souls, which can be sent to hell, or the machine equivalent of hell.
I doubt Doom has access to machine magic, much less a portal to machine hell (Why does a machine religion need a machine hell?).
Why would you automatically assume some guy calling himself the machine god is actually a god in the traditional sense?
Isn't there supposed to be some kind of connection between the strength of the supernatural and faith in the supernatural?
Only in Final Fantasy Tactics.
But since Ultron is sentient, does that not mean he has a soul of some sort? Eh? Eh?
Actually, to put forth a real argument, in Evolve or Die Spider-man fights the god of machines. What's his name? Tracer? Something. Anyway, in it he says that even machines have souls, or something to that effect.
So, since machines do have a god, that therefore means they have souls, which can be sent to hell, or the machine equivalent of hell.
I doubt Doom has access to machine magic, much less a portal to machine hell (Why does a machine religion need a machine hell?).
Why would you automatically assume some guy calling himself the machine god is actually a god in the traditional sense?
I mean, i'm not too serious here, I was just trying to find some way for doom to win/use magic. However, in the comic Tracer does say that he was created in the same way humans created their gods. That's ambiguous, but you could take it to mean that he's an avatar of their collective belief. Take that one step further and you can say "to have belief in the spiritual requires a soul, so machines have souls". If machines have souls, are they different from ours? Or could you subject them to the same realm of magic that Doom deals with?
I just think it would be a nice twist in the fight, if Doom were to screw with that nature of Ultron which no one would really expect. It's ridiculous, but then, so is an evil genius named Doom who speaks in the third person who is also in a villain tournament fighting a giant sentient robot named Ultron.
Edit: Obviously there has to be a machine hell because all religions need some kind of eternal punishment with which to scare their children into not being little brats.
And there is the fact that a bullethole is only the size of a bullet. It does not inflict damage on a very large area.
A hole the size of a bullet through a persons head is still enough to kill them.
I know it's not the same when dealing with a robot but the point stands that even something that does not damage a large area can still be quite harmful if the damage is in the right area.
Would Doom really want to spend any amount of time in the flabby, syphilitic body of a DC politician, much less inside any of the number of even less remarkable citizens of the city?
I dunno. I mean, on one hand, I suppose he would if he had to (taking control briefly of the president to nuke the whole city while running to the prez's bunker, generally escaping death, etc.). On the other hand, one of Doom's weaknesses is for sure pride, and that definitely should be taken into account. I mean, I bet there are some trim, toned, non-syphilitic soldiers he could posess, but your basic point stands (I think anyway).
How could Ultron even enter a meta-physical plane like Hell when he's nothing but a physical being?
I was wondering this too. Because when people like Doom end up in hell, they don't show up naked, I'm inclined to believe that there's no rule against soulless objects entering hell. However, Ultron's sentience and lack of connection to a body with a soul (like doom's armor, Dr. Strange's gear, etc) may exclude him from a trip to hell.
Ultron is not full of cogs, he is full of servomotors, power supplies, wiring and most of all: empty space. The bullet is likely to pass through Ultron while completely missing anything vital. Also: forcefields. Anti-metal doesn't do shit against forcefields. And Ultron has lots of forcefields.
And what vital systems might get hit would probably have several back-ups. Ultron is smart enough to build himself with redundant.
And there is the fact that a bullethole is only the size of a bullet. It does not inflict damage on a very large area.
I agree 100% with this. I want Doom to win, but victory via anti-matter bullet is highly unlikely. At the minimum, Doom would need a lot of bullets, and also to be a very good marksman.
And magic blasts do nothing against Adamantium if they're not meant to rearrange shit on a molecular level. Hellfire works on people's souls and is otherwise just particularly hot fire. Ultron has no soul and is rather heat-resistant.
This is interesting. I don't know how hard transmuting matter is supposed to be in the MU. It seems like it should be a hard thing to to, but, I mean, Doom is supposed to be a pretty good magic-user. I agree that hellfire is probably out, but I'm still holding faith to the deus-ex-machina power of magic for Doom. Could Doom maybe pull a Blink and either bend physics or open a portal or something that causes Ultron's own death beams to hit him in the back?
Also, how did Doom lose his magic Mojo? I admit that I'm not 100% up on my Doom lore. The last I read, he escaped from hell via Thor's hammer, but I don't really remember him renouncing/losing his powers in any way. I mean, I know he's back in his old armor, and I know he doesn't explicitly have his magic armor for this fight, but doesn't all that armor do is boost his power? I mean, I thought he traded the soul of his old girlfriend to get his magic powers boosted way up?
assume an anti bullet with mass 15g (that's about 9mm)
assume a piece of ultron with mass 15g (about the size of a quarter)
in an anhillation event
e=mc^2
e=.03 kg*(3*10^8 m/s)^2
e=2.7*10^15 joules
1 kiloton of TNT=4.184*10^12 joules
2.7*10^15/4.184*10^12=650 kilotons of energy
So shooting ultron with a 9mm antibullet yields more energy than 2 direct hits by a W87 nuclear warhead. about 30 times the energy released in hiroshima.
Now I'm not saying that Doom has one of these. I'm just saying that if he did, please do not argue that ultron would survive it. Don't argue that Doom would survive it. Don't argue that DC would survive it.
Anti-metal is Antarctic vibranium, which differs from Wakandan vibranium in that it creates vibrations rather than absorbs them.
It is called anti-metal because it will liquefy any non-magically enhanced metal it comes into contact with.
And Doom did not lose his magic, he just had a falling-out with the demons who granted him his enhanced magical abilities and as such returned to his regular magic levels. The level he was at before he got the skin-armour.
He's still a very competent and powerful sorcerer, but he is no longer at the enhanced levels he was at during the whole "wearing Valeria's skin and killing Ben or whatever and being all magical and shit" thing.
I sure don't know anything about math (English major ftl), but aren't there more calculations involved in how much damage the bullet would do than just the energy and mass of the bullet? Don't we have to know whether it would go entirely through Ultron or not? What if the bullet just nicks the side of him? Because if the bullet goes through him, then wouldn't some of the bullet's energy continue on and not be spent fucking up his shit? Also, isn't the energy of the bullet a misleading measure of it's destructive power? I mean, doesn't the mass (or anti-mass in this case) contribute to the force of the bullet? Does an anihilation event mean an impact event (I really don't know anything about physics)? Also, to see how much damage the bullet would cause, don't we want to find the force (F=MA), and not the energy? I realize that this is fairly off-topic, but I'm pretty dumb, especially when it comes to math, but I really enjoy being proven wrong and thus can't help but ask.
Anywho, back on topic, Doom's Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Doom#Powers_and_abilities), says that he can open portals to other planes of existence besides hell, which I guess is important if someone successfully argues that Ultron cannot be dropped into hell (though I'm not sure other planes would be any different). Also, apparently he can make a magic force-field, as well as "ensnare foes in bands of energy" which sounds like it would be pretty helpful in fighting Ultron. I mean, he could just throw up the magic shield, wrap up ultron in some magic chains, and fling his ass out of bounds.
Additionally, the Wiki claims that Doom gained "unlimited magical ability" when he sacrificed his sweetheart's soul, which for even someone who is as pro-doom as me sounds like a confusing exaggeration at the least. It also does not mention if he ever lost his increased magic powers.
I love how specific and narrow these arguments get, I'm surprised someone hasn't made a rough chart from MS Paint in which it is shown that Ultron's force field and armor are more than a match for...whatfuckingever.
I prefer to look at this in a "if Marvel put out a book with Doom vs Ultron, who would win?"
The formula for that is fairly easy: The character with the most fans (or fan bois) wins. Fans = Money, Money = who will win the fight.
Doom is a household name like Spider-Man or Batman thanks to having been around since forever+1. Ultron is really only known to actual comic book readers and not your average "man on the street" as it were.
By using the above argument I don't actually have to "think" much like some of the writers who are responsible for all the crazy shit that drives us nuts with their lazy writing and use of "yadda,yadda, he loses because of (some stupid reason that would never work here)."
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited January 2007
using that logic, batman, superman, spider-man, and wolverine would have been in the finals of the last match
using that logic it's a popularity contest and doesn't give for argumentation
using that logic steals away the fun that's supposed to be had
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
You know what. Everyone who says Doom will die is absolutely correct. The guy who survived and escaped Hell will most likely be killed by a Robot. I mean...Doom has never faced a tougher challenge, it's obvious that force fields stop him. I mean..Sue Richards defeats him single handledly all the time. I think, to make this tournament fair it's only natural to put Doom at his weakest and Ultron at his best. In fact, let's assume that Reed Richards just happens to be in DC making mean faces at Doom to further distract him. Ultron wins...because he'd dodge an anti-metal bullet anyway, since Doom would resort to low level artillery and nothing else.
Obviously.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
You know what. Everyone who says Doom will die is absolutely correct. The guy who survived and escaped Hell will most likely be killed by a Robot. I mean...Doom has never faced a tougher challenge, it's obvious that force fields stop him. I mean..Sue Richards defeats him single handledly all the time. I think, to make this tournament fair it's only natural to put Doom at his weakest and Ultron at his best. In fact, let's assume that Reed Richards just happens to be in DC making mean faces at Doom to further distract him. Ultron wins...because he'd dodge an anti-metal bullet anyway, since Doom would resort to low level artillery and nothing else.
Obviously.
Doom is simply in a position where his character can not utilize as many strengths as Ultron.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I just think it's less interesting if a character's victory is taken for granted. There ought to at least be some consensus as to how Doom would win, and it shouldn't be hard to come up with one strong scenario if he's that obvious a choice.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited January 2007
But I'm gonna go ahead and go pro doom here.
Being that this is Washington D.C. and Doom has an embassy there, he can certainly enlist help from the washington forces to attack Ultron. Why? Because the sovereign leader of a country is not much of an immediate threat when compared to a genocidal robot. As such, this fight becomes Doom + Washington D.C. vs Ultron. It won't be long before S.H.I.E.L.D. arrives and puts Ultron in his place. All to the benefit of Doom's greater scheme.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Right, but if Doom's goal is to win this tournament. . .I think we know the outcome. He's in the capitol of one of the strongest nations of the world. Although he is a super villian he still holds clout on the political scene. He could have hellfire rained down upon Ultron, and this is before he gets the US to call in their heavy hitters to protect D.C.
But hey..he'll actually go toe to toe with Ultron with anti-metal bullets as his only plan since RICHARDS!!! is on his mind.
Being that this is Washington D.C. and Doom has an embassy there, he can certainly enlist help from the washington forces to attack Ultron. Why? Because the sovereign leader of a country is not much of an immediate threat when compared to a genocidal robot. As such, this fight becomes Doom + Washington D.C. vs Ultron. It won't be long before S.H.I.E.L.D. arrives and puts Ultron in his place. All to the benefit of Doom's greater scheme.
But can Ultron kill Doom before he can do that?
I'm saying yes.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
On one hand, Ultron had his head knocked off by Daredevil with a treebranch. On the other, Doom was beaten down by Luke Cage with repeated blows to the chest. Tough call. The loser will be the guy who gets struck with Suddenly Stupid Villainitis first. Given that Doom's been running the tourney, I'd say the afflicted party will be Ultron.
Besides, scarred techno-magic weilding, Darth Vader inspiring, archetype defining super despot > evil robot. There were like, what, four evil robots in this tourny (Ultron, Brainiac, Metallo, and Nimrod) so Doom's probably had an entry on his To Do list* called "Research Quick Robot Removal Solution" for some time.
Evil Robots are the rope-a-dopes of the comic book world. Doom and Loki advance.
* Right between "Agree to Kyoto Treaty to throw off Avengers" and "RRRIICCHHHARRRDDSSS!!!!"
Doom makes an anonmyous call to GLA headquarters: "Ultron is rampaging through DC destroying everything! We need every superhero we can get!!" Then he hides behind something until Squirrel Girl shows up.
Doom makes an anonmyous call to GLA headquarters: "Ultron is rampaging through DC destroying everything! We need every superhero we can get!!" Then he hides behind something until Squirrel Girl shows up.
and Squirrel Girl >>>> Ultron
To be fair, Squirrel Girl did beat Doom and Thanos
On the one hand Ultron's head was knocked off after having had a going-over from Karnak and Gorgon of the Inhumans.
Karnak can destroy pretty much any material or energy field by punching it in its weakest point. It is Karnak's superpower to find out where to hit something in order to destroy it almost instantly.
On the other hand, Ultron has single-handedly slaughtered an entire nation and made a giant portrait of his face using their bodies.
On the one hand, Doom has beaten the Thing.
On the other hand, Doom has been beaten by the Thing, whereas Ultron can take on the strongest Avengers by himself, physically.
On the one hand, Doom is still human.
On the other hand, Ultron's reaction time is vastly, vastly superior due to his robot nature.
Doom makes an anonmyous call to GLA headquarters: "Ultron is rampaging through DC destroying everything! We need every superhero we can get!!" Then he hides behind something until Squirrel Girl shows up.
and Squirrel Girl >>>> Ultron
To be fair, Squirrel Girl did beat Doom and Thanos
Why do you think Doom is hiding behind a dumpster?!?! Fool DOOM once, shame on you, Fool DOOM twice and he'll dismember your family.
Oh, and doesn't Doom run a fictional eastern European nation? How many fictional eastern European nation's we got in MU?
Wiki seems to indicate that Ultron's extrenal adamantium shell is not generally vulnerable to magick (Marvel 616 Magick, not the Scarlet Witch' powers which are entirely different).
There is, however, no indication whatsoever that he has the ability to resist being forced out of bounds with dimensional bending magicks (which Doom is intimately familiar with) and in fact it seems like that would be an easy victory for Doom.
Now, it's not quite the same as "beating Ultron in a fight", but it is certainly winning this particular match.
And to those that think this is too cheesy a victory for Doom, I say we've had worse so far and suck it up.
Wiki seems to indicate that Ultron's extrenal adamantium shell is not generally vulnerable to magick (Marvel 616 Magick, not the Scarlet Witch' powers which are entirely different).
There is, however, no indication whatsoever that he has the ability to resist being forced out of bounds with dimensional bending magicks (which Doom is intimately familiar with) and in fact it seems like that would be an easy victory for Doom.
Now, it's not quite the same as "beating Ultron in a fight", but it is certainly winning this particular match.
And to those that think this is too cheesy a victory for Doom, I say we've had worse so far and suck it up.
Doom vrs. Loki: Final Matchup.
Doom would still have to get Ultron through this portal, and he would also first have to conjure this portal, all the while Ultron is fighting back with the strength of a thousand men and energy blasts that can hurt the likes of Thor.
Wiki seems to indicate that Ultron's extrenal adamantium shell is not generally vulnerable to magick (Marvel 616 Magick, not the Scarlet Witch' powers which are entirely different).
There is, however, no indication whatsoever that he has the ability to resist being forced out of bounds with dimensional bending magicks (which Doom is intimately familiar with) and in fact it seems like that would be an easy victory for Doom.
Now, it's not quite the same as "beating Ultron in a fight", but it is certainly winning this particular match.
And to those that think this is too cheesy a victory for Doom, I say we've had worse so far and suck it up.
Doom vrs. Loki: Final Matchup.
Doom would still have to get Ultron through this portal, and he would also first have to conjure this portal, all the while Ultron is fighting back with the strength of a thousand men and energy blasts that can hurt the likes of Thor.
Nah, Doom will just trick him into going through the portal by conjuring the Images of Ikonn or some other illusionist trick (Dr. Strange does this constantly). Ultron may be SUPER ROBOT SMART but he has consistently been shown to have lower creativity than Doom. Whether this is intentional or not, I cannot say.
Not every time, but when one of the contestants has a better reaction time, yes.
And reaction time is important.
Who do you think would win in a fight, a sloth, or a guy with a club.
Captain Caveman never loses.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited January 2007
Spex, you are looking at this way too much in terms of who would win if they went at it with fisticuffs.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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How could Ultron even enter a meta-physical plane like Hell when he's nothing but a physical being?
Are Ultron's insides packed to overflowing with nothing but extremely vital components? Is he unable to function with even the smallest wire being damaged?
No. Ultron is not full of cogs, he is full of servomotors, power supplies, wiring and most of all: empty space. The bullet is likely to pass through Ultron while completely missing anything vital. Also: forcefields. Anti-metal doesn't do shit against forcefields. And Ultron has lots of forcefields.
And what vital systems might get hit would probably have several back-ups. Ultron is smart enough to build himself with redundant.
And there is the fact that a bullethole is only the size of a bullet. It does not inflict damage on a very large area.
The only thing an anti-metal bullet (that Doom doesn't have, by the way) would do is create a very small, rather difficult to exploit opening for Doom to fuck some of Ultron's insides up.
And magic blasts do nothing against Adamantium if they're not meant to rearrange shit on a molecular level. Hellfire works on people's souls and is otherwise just particularly hot fire. Ultron has no soul and is rather heat-resistant.
So no.
And Doom lost his major magic mojo. Now he's back to regular level Doom power.
I doubt Doom has access to machine magic, much less a portal to machine hell (Why does a machine religion need a machine hell?).
Why would you automatically assume some guy calling himself the machine god is actually a god in the traditional sense?
I mean, i'm not too serious here, I was just trying to find some way for doom to win/use magic. However, in the comic Tracer does say that he was created in the same way humans created their gods. That's ambiguous, but you could take it to mean that he's an avatar of their collective belief. Take that one step further and you can say "to have belief in the spiritual requires a soul, so machines have souls". If machines have souls, are they different from ours? Or could you subject them to the same realm of magic that Doom deals with?
I just think it would be a nice twist in the fight, if Doom were to screw with that nature of Ultron which no one would really expect. It's ridiculous, but then, so is an evil genius named Doom who speaks in the third person who is also in a villain tournament fighting a giant sentient robot named Ultron.
Edit: Obviously there has to be a machine hell because all religions need some kind of eternal punishment with which to scare their children into not being little brats.
A hole the size of a bullet through a persons head is still enough to kill them.
I know it's not the same when dealing with a robot but the point stands that even something that does not damage a large area can still be quite harmful if the damage is in the right area.
I dunno. I mean, on one hand, I suppose he would if he had to (taking control briefly of the president to nuke the whole city while running to the prez's bunker, generally escaping death, etc.). On the other hand, one of Doom's weaknesses is for sure pride, and that definitely should be taken into account. I mean, I bet there are some trim, toned, non-syphilitic soldiers he could posess, but your basic point stands (I think anyway).
I was wondering this too. Because when people like Doom end up in hell, they don't show up naked, I'm inclined to believe that there's no rule against soulless objects entering hell. However, Ultron's sentience and lack of connection to a body with a soul (like doom's armor, Dr. Strange's gear, etc) may exclude him from a trip to hell.
I agree 100% with this. I want Doom to win, but victory via anti-matter bullet is highly unlikely. At the minimum, Doom would need a lot of bullets, and also to be a very good marksman.
This is interesting. I don't know how hard transmuting matter is supposed to be in the MU. It seems like it should be a hard thing to to, but, I mean, Doom is supposed to be a pretty good magic-user. I agree that hellfire is probably out, but I'm still holding faith to the deus-ex-machina power of magic for Doom. Could Doom maybe pull a Blink and either bend physics or open a portal or something that causes Ultron's own death beams to hit him in the back?
Also, how did Doom lose his magic Mojo? I admit that I'm not 100% up on my Doom lore. The last I read, he escaped from hell via Thor's hammer, but I don't really remember him renouncing/losing his powers in any way. I mean, I know he's back in his old armor, and I know he doesn't explicitly have his magic armor for this fight, but doesn't all that armor do is boost his power? I mean, I thought he traded the soul of his old girlfriend to get his magic powers boosted way up?
assume a piece of ultron with mass 15g (about the size of a quarter)
in an anhillation event
e=mc^2
e=.03 kg*(3*10^8 m/s)^2
e=2.7*10^15 joules
1 kiloton of TNT=4.184*10^12 joules
2.7*10^15/4.184*10^12=650 kilotons of energy
So shooting ultron with a 9mm antibullet yields more energy than 2 direct hits by a W87 nuclear warhead. about 30 times the energy released in hiroshima.
Now I'm not saying that Doom has one of these. I'm just saying that if he did, please do not argue that ultron would survive it. Don't argue that Doom would survive it. Don't argue that DC would survive it.
Not anti-matter.
Anti-metal is Antarctic vibranium, which differs from Wakandan vibranium in that it creates vibrations rather than absorbs them.
It is called anti-metal because it will liquefy any non-magically enhanced metal it comes into contact with.
And Doom did not lose his magic, he just had a falling-out with the demons who granted him his enhanced magical abilities and as such returned to his regular magic levels. The level he was at before he got the skin-armour.
He's still a very competent and powerful sorcerer, but he is no longer at the enhanced levels he was at during the whole "wearing Valeria's skin and killing Ben or whatever and being all magical and shit" thing.
Anywho, back on topic, Doom's Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Doom#Powers_and_abilities), says that he can open portals to other planes of existence besides hell, which I guess is important if someone successfully argues that Ultron cannot be dropped into hell (though I'm not sure other planes would be any different). Also, apparently he can make a magic force-field, as well as "ensnare foes in bands of energy" which sounds like it would be pretty helpful in fighting Ultron. I mean, he could just throw up the magic shield, wrap up ultron in some magic chains, and fling his ass out of bounds.
Additionally, the Wiki claims that Doom gained "unlimited magical ability" when he sacrificed his sweetheart's soul, which for even someone who is as pro-doom as me sounds like a confusing exaggeration at the least. It also does not mention if he ever lost his increased magic powers.
Anally.
No, that's Super Adaptoid.
I prefer to look at this in a "if Marvel put out a book with Doom vs Ultron, who would win?"
The formula for that is fairly easy: The character with the most fans (or fan bois) wins. Fans = Money, Money = who will win the fight.
Doom is a household name like Spider-Man or Batman thanks to having been around since forever+1. Ultron is really only known to actual comic book readers and not your average "man on the street" as it were.
By using the above argument I don't actually have to "think" much like some of the writers who are responsible for all the crazy shit that drives us nuts with their lazy writing and use of "yadda,yadda, he loses because of (some stupid reason that would never work here)."
using that logic it's a popularity contest and doesn't give for argumentation
using that logic steals away the fun that's supposed to be had
Obviously.
Doom is simply in a position where his character can not utilize as many strengths as Ultron.
Being that this is Washington D.C. and Doom has an embassy there, he can certainly enlist help from the washington forces to attack Ultron. Why? Because the sovereign leader of a country is not much of an immediate threat when compared to a genocidal robot. As such, this fight becomes Doom + Washington D.C. vs Ultron. It won't be long before S.H.I.E.L.D. arrives and puts Ultron in his place. All to the benefit of Doom's greater scheme.
But hey..he'll actually go toe to toe with Ultron with anti-metal bullets as his only plan since RICHARDS!!! is on his mind.
But can Ultron kill Doom before he can do that?
I'm saying yes.
It seems in character, all right. Hell, during the confusion he steals some sort of secret SHIELD tech. Manipulation and backstabbing is his thing.
Furu: Can Ultron kill Doom before he can do that? Yes. Can Doom avoid getting killed and fuck up Ultron like I said? Yes.
Besides, scarred techno-magic weilding, Darth Vader inspiring, archetype defining super despot > evil robot. There were like, what, four evil robots in this tourny (Ultron, Brainiac, Metallo, and Nimrod) so Doom's probably had an entry on his To Do list* called "Research Quick Robot Removal Solution" for some time.
Evil Robots are the rope-a-dopes of the comic book world. Doom and Loki advance.
* Right between "Agree to Kyoto Treaty to throw off Avengers" and "RRRIICCHHHARRRDDSSS!!!!"
Doom makes an anonmyous call to GLA headquarters: "Ultron is rampaging through DC destroying everything! We need every superhero we can get!!" Then he hides behind something until Squirrel Girl shows up.
and Squirrel Girl >>>> Ultron
To be fair, Squirrel Girl did beat Doom and Thanos
Karnak can destroy pretty much any material or energy field by punching it in its weakest point. It is Karnak's superpower to find out where to hit something in order to destroy it almost instantly.
On the other hand, Ultron has single-handedly slaughtered an entire nation and made a giant portrait of his face using their bodies.
On the one hand, Doom has beaten the Thing.
On the other hand, Doom has been beaten by the Thing, whereas Ultron can take on the strongest Avengers by himself, physically.
On the one hand, Doom is still human.
On the other hand, Ultron's reaction time is vastly, vastly superior due to his robot nature.
See how this works?
Ultron != Army of Ultrons
Why do you think Doom is hiding behind a dumpster?!?! Fool DOOM once, shame on you, Fool DOOM twice and he'll dismember your family.
Oh, and doesn't Doom run a fictional eastern European nation? How many fictional eastern European nation's we got in MU?
There is, however, no indication whatsoever that he has the ability to resist being forced out of bounds with dimensional bending magicks (which Doom is intimately familiar with) and in fact it seems like that would be an easy victory for Doom.
Now, it's not quite the same as "beating Ultron in a fight", but it is certainly winning this particular match.
And to those that think this is too cheesy a victory for Doom, I say we've had worse so far and suck it up.
Doom vrs. Loki: Final Matchup.
Doom would still have to get Ultron through this portal, and he would also first have to conjure this portal, all the while Ultron is fighting back with the strength of a thousand men and energy blasts that can hurt the likes of Thor.
Nah, Doom will just trick him into going through the portal by conjuring the Images of Ikonn or some other illusionist trick (Dr. Strange does this constantly). Ultron may be SUPER ROBOT SMART but he has consistently been shown to have lower creativity than Doom. Whether this is intentional or not, I cannot say.
Also, why is it that every time Spectre roots for someone he brings up "superior reaction time?"
And reaction time is important.
Who do you think would win in a fight, a sloth, or a guy with a club.
Depends. Whose name is on the cover?
Captain Caveman never loses.
I'd term it more "guy with a shotgun".
Superior reaction time is a big help when you can beat the shit out of Thor.
Doesn't Flash have a villian that works solely on that premises? The Turtle or something?
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