There've been more than a few articles over the last few years about the effect of widespread porn access on young people reaching sexual maturity now. in short, they have a broad sexual repertoire but report problems establishing actual intimacy (or have no idea what that even is). Its not even the usual godbag nattering you'd expect; this is coming from people in a similar demographic to this forum. The blame is placed on mainstream porn norms giving people funny ideas about how the opposite sex and relationships work. Similar is the issue of widespread viagra access screwing up (heh heh, so to speak) established relationships because one or both partners think the only solution to their problems is more boners (there was a big feature article in the Weekend Australian Magazine a few months back, for you aussies). So, is less more?
Commence the freakout!
I'd be curious to see how much of problems-with-intimacy come from general porn access and how much come from things like not having a good example of stable, intimate relationships (the whole "broken family" business), mainstream porn trending towards gonzo style, or other media influences.
I'm especially curious about the other media influences. When your idea of sex is either "soft lighting, rose petals, partner you'll be with forever" or "James Bond/rock star-esque romp with a series of anonymous hot bodies" (and these are pitched to both genders, albeit unevenly), adjusting to real-life sex has got to be difficult.
Its not like mainstream porn is magically produced from nowhere, there's actually a demand for the usual degrading crud, and that's based in some pretty worrying cultural undertones.
Case in point: facials and the obsession with them.
I really don't understand that.
I like them and find them very intimate. No act is degrading by itself, only in context.
Trowizilla on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
There've been more than a few articles over the last few years about the effect of widespread porn access on young people reaching sexual maturity now. in short, they have a broad sexual repertoire but report problems establishing actual intimacy (or have no idea what that even is). Its not even the usual godbag nattering you'd expect; this is coming from people in a similar demographic to this forum. The blame is placed on mainstream porn norms giving people funny ideas about how the opposite sex and relationships work. Similar is the issue of widespread viagra access screwing up (heh heh, so to speak) established relationships because one or both partners think the only solution to their problems is more boners (there was a big feature article in the Weekend Australian Magazine a few months back, for you aussies). So, is less more?
Commence the freakout!
I'd be curious to see how much of problems-with-intimacy come from general porn access and how much come from things like not having a good example of stable, intimate relationships (the whole "broken family" business), mainstream porn trending towards gonzo style, or other media influences.
I'm especially curious about the other media influences. When your idea of sex is either "soft lighting, rose petals, partner you'll be with forever" or "James Bond/rock star-esque romp with a series of anonymous hot bodies" (and these are pitched to both genders, albeit unevenly), adjusting to real-life sex has got to be difficult.
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Its not like mainstream porn is magically produced from nowhere, there's actually a demand for the usual degrading crud, and that's based in some pretty worrying cultural undertones.
You get that everywhere, though; I don't think there's ever been a time where that dark undertone hasn't existed. Look at how fucked up people in repressed cultures get about sex (oh hi Japanese / puritanical societies). Whether it's completely out in the open or hushed up and taboo, it always seems to be kicking around somewhere.
I'd be curious to see how much of problems-with-intimacy come from general porn access and how much come from things like not having a good example of stable, intimate relationships (the whole "broken family" business), mainstream porn trending towards gonzo style, or other media influences.
Its probably a perfect storm of the above. If I'm recalling correctly, the people reporting problems tend to be either the middle-class-and-ignored or the from-abusive-home types. Both find themselves watching porn at very young ages, like in their tweens, and have fuck-all support outside of that.
I'm especially curious about the other media influences. When your idea of sex is either "soft lighting, rose petals, partner you'll be with forever" or "James Bond/rock star-esque romp with a series of anonymous hot bodies" (and these are pitched to both genders, albeit unevenly), adjusting to real-life sex has got to be difficult.
I don't think anyone's arguing that. Most of the solutions proposed are education-related. Its not like mainstream porn is magically produced from nowhere, there's actually a demand for the usual degrading crud, and that's based in some pretty worrying cultural undertones.
I guess my thoughts here are, when you say something like "less is more" then it discolors the issue. The issue is not about some notion that we have to forego sex or porn, the issue is that people generally don't know what they want in a relationship.
If moar bonerz! isn't fixing it, then question moves to the more uncomfortable one of does one or either party care to fix it or should ending it be seriously thought about in order to put things in perspective?
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Well that's the other thing - heavy internet users are still not the majority even in broadband-heavy areas, so the same people I'm talking about speak of feeling isolated from the local sexual norms, which are insulated somewhat from outside influences. And whether those local norms are actually healthier or not doesn't really change the isolation factor.
Its not like mainstream porn is magically produced from nowhere, there's actually a demand for the usual degrading crud, and that's based in some pretty worrying cultural undertones.
You get that everywhere, though; I don't think there's ever been a time where that dark undertone hasn't existed. Look at how fucked up people in repressed cultures get about sex (oh hi Japanese / puritanical societies). Whether it's completely out in the open or hushed up and taboo, it always seems to be kicking around somewhere.
Well, and then, some of those "dark undertones" are more about escaping guilt from going against your cultural mores, whatever they are. After all, you don't have to feel bad for going against that "good girls don't want sex," because, in your fantasy, you didn't start out wanting to have sex, but that sexy stranger (aka: person who you want to have sex with anyway) forced poor, innocent, naive little you to give in to that oh-so-wrong pleasure.
Its not like mainstream porn is magically produced from nowhere, there's actually a demand for the usual degrading crud, and that's based in some pretty worrying cultural undertones.
Case in point: facials and the obsession with them.
I really don't understand that.
Didn't they start out because it turns out if you film two people fucking well then it looks a lot like two people pretending to fuck? As a sort of "no look, this is real!" thing.
I'd be curious to see how much of problems-with-intimacy come from general porn access and how much come from things like not having a good example of stable, intimate relationships (the whole "broken family" business), mainstream porn trending towards gonzo style, or other media influences.
Its probably a perfect storm of the above. If I'm recalling correctly, the people reporting problems tend to be either the middle-class-and-ignored or the from-abusive-home types. Both find themselves watching porn at very young ages, like in their tweens, and have fuck-all support outside of that.
I'm especially curious about the other media influences. When your idea of sex is either "soft lighting, rose petals, partner you'll be with forever" or "James Bond/rock star-esque romp with a series of anonymous hot bodies" (and these are pitched to both genders, albeit unevenly), adjusting to real-life sex has got to be difficult.
True that.
Eeenteresting. I wonder how the lack-of-support porn-watching people compare to lack-of-support kids who didn't watch a lot of porn. My gut instinct says that it sounds more like a lack-of-support (including learning about sex from something other than porn) issue than a porn-by-itself issue. This may be because I started looking at porn quite young — around 10 or 11, if I remember correctly, although I'd seen it incidentally previously — but had gobs of support otherwise, as well as two attentive parents in a healthy relationship.
On a different note, I wish I could find this article I read awhile back talking about young Christian newlyweds who suffered from extreme sexual dysfunction and needed major counselling before they could consumate their marriage. It turns out that, when you're given the image of sex as either a horrible dirty unholy thing (before marriage) or this wonderful, uplifting, Godly experience (after marriage), you might just have a hard time switching tracks, or else find the after-marriage sex to be just as awkward and silly as anyone else's sex.
Trowizilla on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Well that's the other thing - heavy internet users are still not the majority even in broadband-heavy areas, so the same people I'm talking about speak of feeling isolated from the local sexual norms, which are insulated somewhat from outside influences. And whether those local norms are actually healthier or not doesn't really change the isolation factor.
I didn't get that.
Sorry I'm not taking my adhd meds today for reasons of tense shoulders and wanting to give them a rest.
So I couldn't concentrate on all the variables.
Could you break it up a bit?
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Well that's the other thing - heavy internet users are still not the majority even in broadband-heavy areas, so the same people I'm talking about speak of feeling isolated from the local sexual norms, which are insulated somewhat from outside influences. And whether those local norms are actually healthier or not doesn't really change the isolation factor.
I didn't get that.
Sorry I'm not taking my adhd meds today for reasons of tense shoulders and wanting to give them a rest.
So I couldn't concentrate on all the variables.
Could you break it up a bit?
I'm not sure I got what Cat is saying there either. I'm thinking Cat is saying that broadband isn't as common as you'd think and isn't a major factor in weather someone has problems establishing actual intimacy. You need the combination of access to porn + isolation from local sexual/relationship norms to be more likely to report problems establishing actual intimacy.
I think this has less to do with porn and more to do with being isolated.
There really isn't anything wrong with that. There's a large disconnect between what people find sexy in fantasies, and real life.
I agree.
But if my wife owned only interracial gang bang porn... I'd be uncomfortable with it being that I don't care for gang bangs and I'm white. :P
There's no way you can satisfy someone like that.
What the fuck are you talking about? My entire porn collection consists of catgirls and tentacles. This doesn't mean I actually have a real life desire to staple the cat to my wife's head and make a fully articulated pneumatic naughty tentacle monster. It's just what I happen to like looking at. If her porn collection consisted of nothing but interracial gang bang porn, I'd certainly have a few delicately phrased questions that'd need answering about her fixation, but just because someone likes seeing something doesn't mean they actually want to do it.
I dunno.
My pron is relatively tame.
Cat girls are super hot though.
And I used to date a girl who would wear them.
So... Uh...
TMI.
EDIT
I was also joking in that post. In the long run, I wouldn't care. I'm just prone to the same self esteem issues that plague a ton of people.
don't be that guy. You know, that guy.
I learned my lesson about chasing after lesbians a loooong time ago.
There've been more than a few articles over the last few years about the effect of widespread porn access on young people reaching sexual maturity now. in short, they have a broad sexual repertoire but report problems establishing actual intimacy (or have no idea what that even is).
Young teens having awkward sex due to high expectations and lack of knowledge isn't anything new or increasingly widespread.
Have you not seen Porky's?
The blame is placed on mainstream porn norms giving people funny ideas about how the opposite sex and relationships work.
Porn has existed forever.
Regardless of that, the two sexes are still completely in the dark about how the opposite sex and relationships work.
Dr. Drew still had a job.
Point I'm trying to make is that these problems have existed. Probably since the dawn of man.
Really, you don't think watching porn CREATES any misconceptions about what sex is, how it's none, and what's expected of either party? None?
It can't create what's already there. I'm not giving porn a pass on social problems. It can fuel them, but I don't think it creates them.
What do you mean what's already there?
Mainstream porn contains a lot of tropes, stereotypes, etc that are misconceptions of what real sex is like for normal people. Are you saying people already know this stuff before they ever watch any porn?
None of my sex has ever been like sex in porn. Or in a movie. Or on TV. I probably partly expected it to be when I was still a young stallion, nay, colt* but my expectations changed rapidly when they collided with reality. People who expect sex to be like it is portrayed in most media are either virgins or dumb.
Really, you don't think watching porn CREATES any misconceptions about what sex is, how it's none, and what's expected of either party? None?
It can't create what's already there. I'm not giving porn a pass on social problems. It can fuel them, but I don't think it creates them.
What do you mean what's already there?
Mainstream porn contains a lot of tropes, stereotypes, etc that are misconceptions of what real sex is like for normal people. Are you saying people already know this stuff before they ever watch any porn?
No.
I'm saying confusion about the opposite sex would exist without pornography. Pornography can make it even more confusing, but even if it didn't exist, no one would have a good idea about a healthy, responsible, and respectful sex life until they have one.
Even if porn could explicitly create some of these problems, I'd lay it more on media in general than porn specifically. American media portrays both women and men in an incredibly skewed, false, way.
And then there's the unchecked pedophilia in the US media. But that's a different thread.
Yeah okay, you said misconceptions up there which is whated I want to talk about, not awkwardness or confusion about the opposite sex.
I never said porn is the root of sexual confusion or problems, what I'm saying is that it's a very strong provider of misconceptions and stereotypes that people can easily latch on to, especially if they have little or no sexual experience.
On a different note, I wish I could find this article I read awhile back talking about young Christian newlyweds who suffered from extreme sexual dysfunction and needed major counselling before they could consumate their marriage. It turns out that, when you're given the image of sex as either a horrible dirty unholy thing (before marriage) or this wonderful, uplifting, Godly experience (after marriage), you might just have a hard time switching tracks, or else find the after-marriage sex to be just as awkward and silly as anyone else's sex.
OH sweet Trowizilla thank you so much for this info I ranted a week ago about this kind of thing (virgin weddings/purity balls) in my column and everyone I know had something to add but counseling after marriage for sex by virgins, LET THE RANTING BEGIN! I wonder what the divorce rate, STD, and pregnancy rate is for these kids? But a quick search of Google for "Christian newlyweds dysfunction" turned up one very fitting onion article and a list of sites on sex for Christians.
But to comment on the original idea I'm pretty sure that porn is a symptom not the problem like any addiction, if it causes issues in the relationship or life of the single person then it's an issue if not it's like anything else just something to pass the time. Sure when your young kids will indulge in this more because everything is coming to life for crying out loud I had a pallet of kelnex in my bedroom from 16 to 21 and I was a pretty avarge guy in my teens (although people who read the SaEM thread may think otherwise). But I think that this issue comes from the current time (sex is everywhere but taboo, talked about, implied, suggested, way over used by the media to sell everything, and the over hyped and undervalued of it in our personal lives)
But I did have an idea to keep peoples ideas about sex that they got from porn abit more in line with reality by changing porn star to sexual athlete
Yeah okay, you said misconceptions up there which is whated I want to talk about, not awkwardness or confusion about the opposite sex.
I never said porn is the root of sexual confusion or problems, what I'm saying is that it's a very strong provider of misconceptions and stereotypes that people can easily latch on to, especially if they have little or no sexual experience.
Misconceptions can't equal confusion? Anyway, I think we agree more than we disagree. I think the impasse seems to be at the level it influences people.
I'd also like for you to keep in mind that times change. What was taboo yesterday is completely acceptable today.
Yeah okay, you said misconceptions up there which is whated I want to talk about, not awkwardness or confusion about the opposite sex.
I never said porn is the root of sexual confusion or problems, what I'm saying is that it's a very strong provider of misconceptions and stereotypes that people can easily latch on to, especially if they have little or no sexual experience.
Misconceptions can't equal confusion? Anyway, I think we agree more than we disagree. I think the impasse seems to be at the level it influences people.
I'd also like for you to keep in mind that times change. What was taboo yesterday is completely acceptable today.
I'm mostly thinking of power roles in mainstream porn. I'm not talking about zomg not missionary position!
Plus stuff like the idea that every girl should be shaved and love/be able to deepthroat huge penises, dudes should be able to do it for hours, etc etc
On a different note, I wish I could find this article I read awhile back talking about young Christian newlyweds who suffered from extreme sexual dysfunction and needed major counselling before they could consumate their marriage. It turns out that, when you're given the image of sex as either a horrible dirty unholy thing (before marriage) or this wonderful, uplifting, Godly experience (after marriage), you might just have a hard time switching tracks, or else find the after-marriage sex to be just as awkward and silly as anyone else's sex.
OH sweet Trowizilla thank you so much for this info I ranted a week ago about this kind of thing (virgin weddings/purity balls) in my column and everyone I know had something to add but counseling after marriage for sex by virgins, LET THE RANTING BEGIN! I wonder what the divorce rate, STD, and pregnancy rate is for these kids? But a quick search of Google for "Christian newlyweds dysfunction" turned up one very fitting onion article and a list of sites on sex for Christians.
But to comment on the original idea I'm pretty sure that porn is a symptom not the problem like any addiction, if it causes issues in the relationship or life of the single person then it's an issue if not it's like anything else just something to pass the time. Sure when your young kids will indulge in this more because everything is coming to life for crying out loud I had a pallet of kelnex in my bedroom from 16 to 21 and I was a pretty avarge guy in my teens (although people who read the SaEM thread may think otherwise). But I think that this issue comes from the current time (sex is everywhere but taboo, talked about, implied, suggested, way over used by the media to sell everything, and the over hyped and undervalued of it in our personal lives)
But I did have an idea to keep peoples ideas about sex that they got from porn abit more in line with reality by changing porn star to sexual athlete
Holy run-on sentences, Batman!
I do think cultural views of sex are always going to be distorted, whether they come from religion, porn, romance movies or books, action movies, music, whatever. It's when you don't have the moderating influence of frank, honest discussion of sexuality, it seems, that people run into problems. Of course, the idea that sex is just sex — fun, frequently awkward, often silly, sometimes complicated — is a lot less compelling a soundbite than sex-as-filth, or sex-as-True-Love, or sex-as-Pure-Manly-Awesome, or sex-as-a-religious-experience.
We can't even get a healthy balance to our cultural view of something as prosaic as eating, so doing so with sex seems pretty difficult.
You seem to be posting from a place of deep frustration, but can you cram the gender essentialism? You're normally better than this dreck.
He.
Umm.
He already clarified that he wasn't stereotyping but rather using that as an example.
He failed at expression, and this whole thread is full of similar bullshit.
I'm not your white whale, and I'd appreciate you not chucking your harpoons at me.
You can chuck your harpoon at me any time. :winky:
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Really, you don't think watching porn CREATES any misconceptions about what sex is, how it's none, and what's expected of either party? None?
Oh I'm sure that by the time someone's watched porn they've had years and years of mainstream media to fuck up their idea of what constitutes a "normal" person.
Really, you don't think watching porn CREATES any misconceptions about what sex is, how it's none, and what's expected of either party? None?
Oh I'm sure that by the time someone's watched porn they've had years and years of mainstream media to fuck up their idea of what constitutes a "normal" person.
That and their friends/parents generally giving myopic or outdated opinions and information.
I think we can all agree porn is not the only problem here
In-context it's not even one of the problems. Two people are in a sexual relationship and one is watching porn and the other is upset because watching porn isn't having sex with them. The problem here is that these people either aren't having enough sex or have puritanical ideals relating to sex. Or both. Without either of those conditions the problem can't really come up. You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
I agree, except that it's just as easy to come to the conclusion that you (or your partner) is doing something horribly horribly wrong, and you're deformed and underperforming and oh my god how could anyone ever love you?
You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
I agree, except that it's just as easy to come to the conclusion that you (or your partner) is doing something horribly horribly wrong, and you're deformed and underperforming and oh my god how could anyone ever love you?
I think we can all agree porn is not the only problem here
In-context it's not even one of the problems. Two people are in a sexual relationship and one is watching porn and the other is upset because watching porn isn't having sex with them. The problem here is that these people either aren't having enough sex or have puritanical ideals relating to sex. Or both. Without either of those conditions the problem can't really come up. You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
Or maybe, they just don't like it. Crazy that is.
Like if you picked up smoking and they found out about it. But hey, you get the idea.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Meh... I was much more into porn when I was a geeky teenager in highschool who couldn't get girls.
My "archives" (like 3gigs) are very rarely even opened these days, and only when she is not available. Why go for the porn when you have the real thing right next to you? Unless you have an insane libido and she can't keep up, it's that time of the month, or she's too tired or whatever. If it's another reason then the porn is only a symptom of the problem.
And if that's the case, then it is completely unfair if she is both unwilling to have sex with you or let you "calm the beast" with porn.
It is always strange to me that it is generally perceived to be perfectly acceptable for a woman to turn down a man for whatever reason she wants, but the inverse can be construed as a personal offense. Like the guy is supposed to be ready to service her whenever she pleases, while the opposite is offensive and chauvinistic.
SO happy that I didn't get any kind of baggage like that with my fiance
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
porn isn't sex. you can have completely satisfying porn in under 5 minutes. it's mostly a masturbatory aid, and it also satisfies desires you may not have access to from your partner (like women of a different race, or women who are happy to read the news naked while random guys bust on her face)
thereby enabling your real sex life to be more committed, intimate and meaningful.
I think we can all agree porn is not the only problem here
In-context it's not even one of the problems. Two people are in a sexual relationship and one is watching porn and the other is upset because watching porn isn't having sex with them. The problem here is that these people either aren't having enough sex or have puritanical ideals relating to sex. Or both. Without either of those conditions the problem can't really come up. You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
Or maybe, they just don't like it. Crazy that is.
Like if you picked up smoking and they found out about it. But hey, you get the idea.
So I gather you're prepared to explain how a device used as an aid to perform an activity whose ultimate result has been consistently shown to be good for both mental and physical health is analogous to an activity that actively kills you? If not, "maybe they just don't like it" doesn't fly. Maybe they just don't like your playing videogames ever at all. Or that you're interested in cars. Then they demand you abandon it completely and forever. Who is the douchebag there, you or them? I get the idea it's just not one that makes any sense.
I think we can all agree porn is not the only problem here
In-context it's not even one of the problems. Two people are in a sexual relationship and one is watching porn and the other is upset because watching porn isn't having sex with them. The problem here is that these people either aren't having enough sex or have puritanical ideals relating to sex. Or both. Without either of those conditions the problem can't really come up. You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
Or maybe, they just don't like it. Crazy that is.
Like if you picked up smoking and they found out about it. But hey, you get the idea.
So I gather you're prepared to explain how a device used as an aid to perform an activity whose ultimate result has been consistently shown to be good for both mental and physical health is analogous to an activity that actively kills you?
Cite?
Also, I never made that claim. Simply that it's a habit that may not be looked favorably on by another person and said person is well within their rights to not like it. And that it's neither ridiculous, retarded, immature, or obsessive. Despite what some people here claim.
Would you feel better if I further specified smoking pot, whilst in Amsterdam, as opposed to cigarettes?
Edit:
And I don't see the analog to comparing jerking your meat to fixing up a car or playing the latest Halo. They're close, but they're essentially different.
Just like if someone was into B&D, all of a sudden, and the S/O has to be fondly acceptable of this new found hobby. I see no reason why it's looked upon so oddly by a few of you here to follow the trail of thought that a habit someone's not aware of may not be liked. If you all of a sudden started fixing cars on the weekend that's different.
Of course I'm operating under the assumption that this is coming from a standpoint of "I just started doing it during our relationship" which I guess is just the wrong way to look at it.
But then again, why wouldn't your S/O have known about it at that point in time?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Posts
I'd be curious to see how much of problems-with-intimacy come from general porn access and how much come from things like not having a good example of stable, intimate relationships (the whole "broken family" business), mainstream porn trending towards gonzo style, or other media influences.
I'm especially curious about the other media influences. When your idea of sex is either "soft lighting, rose petals, partner you'll be with forever" or "James Bond/rock star-esque romp with a series of anonymous hot bodies" (and these are pitched to both genders, albeit unevenly), adjusting to real-life sex has got to be difficult.
I like them and find them very intimate. No act is degrading by itself, only in context.
I'd be interested in differences in australia vs america as well, since in australia broadband is only highly available in the major urban areas and there's still a decent chunk of the population without decent internet access.
I'm not dissing what you are saying in any way Cat, just curious about trends.
Oh hi.
Go for your life. :winky:
Cabbage
You get that everywhere, though; I don't think there's ever been a time where that dark undertone hasn't existed. Look at how fucked up people in repressed cultures get about sex (oh hi Japanese / puritanical societies). Whether it's completely out in the open or hushed up and taboo, it always seems to be kicking around somewhere.
True that.
If moar bonerz! isn't fixing it, then question moves to the more uncomfortable one of does one or either party care to fix it or should ending it be seriously thought about in order to put things in perspective?
Well, and then, some of those "dark undertones" are more about escaping guilt from going against your cultural mores, whatever they are. After all, you don't have to feel bad for going against that "good girls don't want sex," because, in your fantasy, you didn't start out wanting to have sex, but that sexy stranger (aka: person who you want to have sex with anyway) forced poor, innocent, naive little you to give in to that oh-so-wrong pleasure.
Eeenteresting. I wonder how the lack-of-support porn-watching people compare to lack-of-support kids who didn't watch a lot of porn. My gut instinct says that it sounds more like a lack-of-support (including learning about sex from something other than porn) issue than a porn-by-itself issue. This may be because I started looking at porn quite young — around 10 or 11, if I remember correctly, although I'd seen it incidentally previously — but had gobs of support otherwise, as well as two attentive parents in a healthy relationship.
On a different note, I wish I could find this article I read awhile back talking about young Christian newlyweds who suffered from extreme sexual dysfunction and needed major counselling before they could consumate their marriage. It turns out that, when you're given the image of sex as either a horrible dirty unholy thing (before marriage) or this wonderful, uplifting, Godly experience (after marriage), you might just have a hard time switching tracks, or else find the after-marriage sex to be just as awkward and silly as anyone else's sex.
I didn't get that.
Sorry I'm not taking my adhd meds today for reasons of tense shoulders and wanting to give them a rest.
So I couldn't concentrate on all the variables.
Could you break it up a bit?
I'm not sure I got what Cat is saying there either. I'm thinking Cat is saying that broadband isn't as common as you'd think and isn't a major factor in weather someone has problems establishing actual intimacy. You need the combination of access to porn + isolation from local sexual/relationship norms to be more likely to report problems establishing actual intimacy.
I think this has less to do with porn and more to do with being isolated.
I learned my lesson about chasing after lesbians a loooong time ago.
Young teens having awkward sex due to high expectations and lack of knowledge isn't anything new or increasingly widespread.
Have you not seen Porky's?
Porn has existed forever.
Regardless of that, the two sexes are still completely in the dark about how the opposite sex and relationships work.
Dr. Drew still had a job.
Point I'm trying to make is that these problems have existed. Probably since the dawn of man.
Porn didn't cause them.
Just to play devils advocate here, but do you think it factors into it in any way?
It can certainly reinforce misconceptions.
Or create them?
I'm not your white whale, and I'd appreciate you not chucking your harpoons at me.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Doubtful.
Awkwardness and a complete lack in understanding of the opposite sex and the problems it causes socially existed before porn.
Hmmm.
Sounds like a good porn idea.
It can't create what's already there. I'm not giving porn a pass on social problems. It can fuel them, but I don't think it creates them.
What do you mean what's already there?
Mainstream porn contains a lot of tropes, stereotypes, etc that are misconceptions of what real sex is like for normal people. Are you saying people already know this stuff before they ever watch any porn?
*i have been waiting to use that for so long!
No.
I'm saying confusion about the opposite sex would exist without pornography. Pornography can make it even more confusing, but even if it didn't exist, no one would have a good idea about a healthy, responsible, and respectful sex life until they have one.
Even if porn could explicitly create some of these problems, I'd lay it more on media in general than porn specifically. American media portrays both women and men in an incredibly skewed, false, way.
And then there's the unchecked pedophilia in the US media. But that's a different thread.
I never said porn is the root of sexual confusion or problems, what I'm saying is that it's a very strong provider of misconceptions and stereotypes that people can easily latch on to, especially if they have little or no sexual experience.
Misconceptions can't equal confusion? Anyway, I think we agree more than we disagree. I think the impasse seems to be at the level it influences people.
I'd also like for you to keep in mind that times change. What was taboo yesterday is completely acceptable today.
I'm mostly thinking of power roles in mainstream porn. I'm not talking about zomg not missionary position!
Plus stuff like the idea that every girl should be shaved and love/be able to deepthroat huge penises, dudes should be able to do it for hours, etc etc
You can chuck your harpoon at me any time. :winky:
Oh I'm sure that by the time someone's watched porn they've had years and years of mainstream media to fuck up their idea of what constitutes a "normal" person.
That and their friends/parents generally giving myopic or outdated opinions and information.
In-context it's not even one of the problems. Two people are in a sexual relationship and one is watching porn and the other is upset because watching porn isn't having sex with them. The problem here is that these people either aren't having enough sex or have puritanical ideals relating to sex. Or both. Without either of those conditions the problem can't really come up. You only have to have sex a couple times to figure out that mainstream, hardcore porn is made of special-effects.
I agree, except that it's just as easy to come to the conclusion that you (or your partner) is doing something horribly horribly wrong, and you're deformed and underperforming and oh my god how could anyone ever love you?
Then add "not talking" to the list.
Or maybe, they just don't like it. Crazy that is.
Like if you picked up smoking and they found out about it. But hey, you get the idea.
My "archives" (like 3gigs) are very rarely even opened these days, and only when she is not available. Why go for the porn when you have the real thing right next to you? Unless you have an insane libido and she can't keep up, it's that time of the month, or she's too tired or whatever. If it's another reason then the porn is only a symptom of the problem.
And if that's the case, then it is completely unfair if she is both unwilling to have sex with you or let you "calm the beast" with porn.
It is always strange to me that it is generally perceived to be perfectly acceptable for a woman to turn down a man for whatever reason she wants, but the inverse can be construed as a personal offense. Like the guy is supposed to be ready to service her whenever she pleases, while the opposite is offensive and chauvinistic.
SO happy that I didn't get any kind of baggage like that with my fiance
thereby enabling your real sex life to be more committed, intimate and meaningful.
So I gather you're prepared to explain how a device used as an aid to perform an activity whose ultimate result has been consistently shown to be good for both mental and physical health is analogous to an activity that actively kills you? If not, "maybe they just don't like it" doesn't fly. Maybe they just don't like your playing videogames ever at all. Or that you're interested in cars. Then they demand you abandon it completely and forever. Who is the douchebag there, you or them? I get the idea it's just not one that makes any sense.
Cite?
Also, I never made that claim. Simply that it's a habit that may not be looked favorably on by another person and said person is well within their rights to not like it. And that it's neither ridiculous, retarded, immature, or obsessive. Despite what some people here claim.
Would you feel better if I further specified smoking pot, whilst in Amsterdam, as opposed to cigarettes?
Edit:
And I don't see the analog to comparing jerking your meat to fixing up a car or playing the latest Halo. They're close, but they're essentially different.
Just like if someone was into B&D, all of a sudden, and the S/O has to be fondly acceptable of this new found hobby. I see no reason why it's looked upon so oddly by a few of you here to follow the trail of thought that a habit someone's not aware of may not be liked. If you all of a sudden started fixing cars on the weekend that's different.
Of course I'm operating under the assumption that this is coming from a standpoint of "I just started doing it during our relationship" which I guess is just the wrong way to look at it.
But then again, why wouldn't your S/O have known about it at that point in time?