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Kurtz pisses off his forum when he shuts it down (not a bitch thread)

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Posts

  • SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Sheep I'ma punch you in the groin.

    In fact I'm going to VATS it up.

    95% chance of groin punching


    Please don't.

    That's where my babies come from.

    Sheep on
    QlBGc.jpg
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    NOT ANYMORE THEY DON'T!

    I think some of the 'argh, Kurtz sucks!' comes from some jabs and jests both strips took at each other early on, which evolved into other things, like opposing WoW guilds that some people have ended up taking unfortunately seriously.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Man alphamonkey deserves credit too. People shit all over that guy, at least a year or two ago when things got really unstable (the forums were down for like two months), but he put a lot of work into this place.

    hmm well

    what's that over there...

    ?

    Sarksus on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Man alphamonkey deserves credit too. People shit all over that guy, at least a year or two ago when things got really unstable (the forums were down for like two months), but he put a lot of work into this place.

    hmm well

    what's that over there...

    ?

    foil.jpg

    moniker on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Hey, I mean, sometimes you gotta be real.

    I ain't givin' Buckley shit for that.
    Well, you should.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I was under the impression that alphamonkey does diddly-shit. He seems to pop in every six months or so to say he can't do something and then vanishes again like smoke.

    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Drez on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    I was under the impression that alphamonkey does diddly-shit. He seems to pop in every six months or so to say he can't do something and then vanishes again like smoke.

    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    From what I understand, Ramius is the forum guy, and alpha is the server guy. They have a symbiotic relationship.

    MKR on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    MKR wrote: »
    From what I understand, Ramius is the forum guy, and alpha is the server guy. They have a symbiotic relationship.

    Which one is liquid evil?

    Incenjucar on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    MKR wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I was under the impression that alphamonkey does diddly-shit. He seems to pop in every six months or so to say he can't do something and then vanishes again like smoke.

    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    From what I understand, Ramius is the forum guy, and alpha is the server guy. They have a symbiotic relationship.

    I'm not really criticizing him per se because, of course, I don't have any glimpse into the behind-the-scenes goings on, but I remember some of the crits I heard over the years and uh well let's just not go there I guess. He's still the server-based admin as far as I know so I guess he's not really doing anything wrong.

    Drez on
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Uh, yeah. That's kind of how it goes. When things go right, you have no idea he's even there and doing anything. It's when things go wrong that guys like him come to notice.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    I was under the impression that alphamonkey does diddly-shit. He seems to pop in every six months or so to say he can't do something and then vanishes again like smoke.

    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Yes, you are.

    Premier kakos on
    SuperKawaiiWillSig.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    All I know is whoever came up with the :winky: emoticon is my favourite admin. Even more than whoever split us off into Everything Else way back when.

    moniker on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    I was under the impression that alphamonkey does diddly-shit. He seems to pop in every six months or so to say he can't do something and then vanishes again like smoke.

    Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Yes, you are.

    Good. Like I said I didn't really know.

    Drez on
  • NocturneNocturne Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Zek wrote: »
    From reading the newspost, it seems like Kurtz was in a crappy position and had no choice in the matter. There's certainly no trace of "fuck you guys I'll do what I want" there, and he says it's temporary. Sometimes IRL shit happens and I'm guessing all the drama started with forum addicts with a sense of entitlement.

    This is pretty much how I feel. If I had to deal with shit like that on Thanksgiving, and possibly didn't have enough prior notice about it so that I could warn the forumers, I would also say "Well back that shit up, pull the plug, and I'll deal with it later."

    Nocturne on
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Nocturne wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    From reading the newspost, it seems like Kurtz was in a crappy position and had no choice in the matter. There's certainly no trace of "fuck you guys I'll do what I want" there, and he says it's temporary. Sometimes IRL shit happens and I'm guessing all the drama started with forum addicts with a sense of entitlement.

    This is pretty much how I feel. If I had to deal with shit like that on Thanksgiving, and possibly didn't have enough prior notice about it so that I could warn the forumers, I would also say "Well back that shit up, pull the plug, and I'll deal with it later."

    except for the fact that none of that is true....

    1) He had plenty of choice in the matter, he is the one that made the decision to pull the plug on the pvp forums permanently, and without warning. No one would have bitched if he would have said "this was costing too much, so after the holidays we'll sort it out."

    2) There's plenty of trace of fuck you guys, I'll do what I want. You just have to actually read what he's been typing in the newly spawned forums, and on his twitter posts. He never said, "oh, we have to close this because it's expensive", he said "straub has to take down the forums for a while because they cost a lot so I just told him to not bring back the pvp forums because I don't like what they are, they're not what I wanted", which came off to a lot of fans as, "I don't like the way my fans have acted on my forums, so I'm shutting it down"

    3) He had enough notice to warn the forumers, Straubs host didn't say "we're pulling the plug on your site tomorrow" they just said he had to do something soon or they would.

    4) Yes, a lot of it was from forumers with a sense of entitlement, but Kurtz was a dick about it too.

    edit: finally, he NEVER said it was temporary, unless he's caved and changed it within the last six hours. He's said that he is starting a facebook group and people can find him on twitter, but the only forum in place now is the webcomics.com forum which will NOT have a pvp forum. He told the forumers directly it's up to them to find a new home there.

    amateurhour on

    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • SarksusSarksus Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Whatever. It's an internet forum. Maybe they'll all go outside now and play some baseball. Scott Kurtz is saving lives by encouraging exercise, that valiant motherfucker.

    Sarksus on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Whatever. It's an internet forum. Maybe they'll all go outside now and play some baseball. Scott Kurtz is saving lives by encouraging exercise, that valiant motherfucker.

    Fat nerds can save the world, Sarksus. You of all people should recognize this given your avatar/sig.

    moniker on
  • JokermanJokerman Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Whatever. It's an internet forum. Maybe they'll all go outside now and play some baseball. Scott Kurtz is saving lives by encouraging exercise, that valiant motherfucker.

    Like Scott Kurtz ever advocated physical activity:whistle:

    Jokerman on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Oh the days of webcomic drama, how I miss it so.

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20031003l.gif

    Of course that was more friendly rivalry than drama.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Forums are for community interaction. If you just want a place where your fans can talk about you and how awesome you are, and not ever discuss any other common interests, then clearly a forum is not the way to go. Giving your fans a forum, then taking it away after they have grown into a tightly knit community, is a dick move.

    I understand that forums have a tendency to decay into pure internet bile. I feel I need not invoke the greater internet dickwad theory, here. I fully believe the only reason good forums exist (such as this one) is because of the hard work of admins and moderators. I don't think idiots outnumber us sensible posters, I just think that when idiots are allowed to run amok, the sensible among us leave.

    AbsoluteZero on
    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2008
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I don't really know, but I'd like to. I hope sociologists are at least pondering this and can provide some kind of viewpoint on this at some point in the future so I can read about why my generation is/was, generally speaking, a collective piece of shit.

    Has there ever been a generation who is taught, really, indoctrinated with the phrase "Do what you want with your life and don't let anyone stand in your way." I remember my childhood being filled by teaches telling me that the sky's the limit, follow my dreams, don't listen to people who tell me what I can't do, etc. We were trying to tell kids to choose the best life for themselves and instead I think we taught kids that the world owes them something.

    There's nothing wrong with telling people to shoot for the top.

    It's just you also have to tell them not to shoot everyone else to get there.

    I agree and I think that's the part we missed. There was no tempering lesson to go with the galvanizing.

    Actually, I'm pretty sure that part was the goal, and the shoot for the stars stuff was simply a preexisting lesson magnified by its association. Remember, the Cold War, and thereby the stupidity that is the all-or-nothing zero sum game, is still quite recent, so it makes very good sense that parents would want to teach that you can still have something as long as you don't start burning bridges.

    I'd say the bathhouse analogy is a good one. While you can tell them to get the fuck out at any time, you can't tell them to go straight from the water to the door without getting dressed. Hell, in Massachusetts at least, the bank can't even kick you out of your house during certain months if you can show that you can't find a warm place to stay that night.
    Even in cases in which you work on your employer's whims, they are not allowed to cut you loose without giving you a short period to at least search for alternate employment.

    Also, I'd say that regular updates in City of Heroes is, in fact, an entitlement, on the basis that you bought the game and pay the monthly fees on the expectation of regular maintenance and updates, although this is, of course, custom rather than legality.

    In this case, Kurtz should have tried to pressure the provider to allow him a minimal forum for another week or so to allow the residents to arrange an alternate meeting place.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Hey, I mean, sometimes you gotta be real.

    I ain't givin' Buckley shit for that.
    Well, you should.

    I've developed a great heuristic for myself, and others are allowed to copy it: If the problem presents itself, "Should I give B^Uckley shit for that?" the answer is "Yes."

    Cervetus on
    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • AlectharAlecthar Alan Shore We're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Honestly, what got me was the stuff about how the forums weren't even about the comic anymore. I guess Mr. Kurtz isn't of the opinion that an online forum and an online fan club are two different things. Hell, even an online fan club would probably make a forum where they discussed things other than their fandom.

    I just don't get Kurtz' brand of ego and self-deprecation. One minute he's irritated at forums that aren't all about his work anymore, the next he's talking about how his comic's really just a few panels with a fart joke punchline (all to often true, unfortunately). Am I missing something wherein the obvious disconnect between acting as though your webcomic is high art and your webcomic being about fart jokes is somehow resolved?

    I understand the question of expenses, and I wouldn't blame Kurtz for shutting down the forums to, say, move them elsewhere, especially if quick action is demanded by the holidays, but it is kind of ridiculous to set up a forum that you allow to develop as a community independent of your intervention and then shut it down because suddenly you feel like you don't really want them talking about the next episode of Heroes. Where was forum moderation when Kurtz apparently needed it? It seems to me that Kurtz got miffed that not everyone wanted to talk about how awesome his comic and his venture into exploring the intellectual and business aspects of webcomics are and used heavy server traffic as an excuse to make people knock that community-making thing off. Seriously, discussing things of mutual interest to fans of a comic that used to be about such nerdy pursuits is most definitely off limits.

    Alecthar on
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    There is only one thing I will miss about the forums and that is the Motivational Posters thread and I won't miss that all that much. The rest of it was real hit and miss for me, even the much vaunted community. The problem as I see it was a lack of a good, strong and Visible Mod staff. People where allowed to post shit that would have gotten them a swift ban here.

    If you Look at Penny Arcade Forums, the Mods are highly visible in the threads, its a rare popular thread that don't have at least one mod posting. Combine this with the Infractions system and Jailings, everybody can see that people breaking the rules get their punishment. I think the alternative(Jailing) to perma-banning makes it all the more clear that the rules are being enforced.

    All that being said, there are things I don't like about Penny-Arcade. The need to read Tycho's blog to get the joke in the comic sometimes, is one of them. Not going to stop reading or make bitch threads about it, but thats just my opinion and Gabe and Tycho can ignore it all they want. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, doesn't mean you should shove it in people's face.

    Kipling217 on
    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Alecthar wrote: »
    Honestly, what got me was the stuff about how the forums weren't even about the comic anymore. I guess Mr. Kurtz isn't of the opinion that an online forum and an online fan club are two different things. Hell, even an online fan club would probably make a forum where they discussed things other than their fandom.

    I just don't get Kurtz' brand of ego and self-deprecation. One minute he's irritated at forums that aren't all about his work anymore, the next he's talking about how his comic's really just a few panels with a fart joke punchline (all to often true, unfortunately). Am I missing something wherein the obvious disconnect between acting as though your webcomic is high art and your webcomic being about fart jokes is somehow resolved?

    I understand the question of expenses, and I wouldn't blame Kurtz for shutting down the forums to, say, move them elsewhere, especially if quick action is demanded by the holidays, but it is kind of ridiculous to set up a forum that you allow to develop as a community independent of your intervention and then shut it down because suddenly you feel like you don't really want them talking about the next episode of Heroes. Where was forum moderation when Kurtz apparently needed it? It seems to me that Kurtz got miffed that not everyone wanted to talk about how awesome his comic and his venture into exploring the intellectual and business aspects of webcomics are and used heavy server traffic as an excuse to make people knock that community-making thing off. Seriously, discussing things of mutual interest to fans of a comic that used to be about such nerdy pursuits is most definitely off limits.

    I like PVP, especially the last six months or so, but Scott Kurtz is clearly a very emotional guy. He's led by his emotions first and foremost. The 'disconnect' you mention is an emotional tactic for avoiding criticism. If someone disrespects him by saying 'it's kinda dumb' he can talk about how webcomics are important and how they are damaging the business of syndication. If someone analyses a joke or comic too much he can just switch to 'it's just fart jokes, man'.

    I agree that no-one is entitled to their forum. I also would be surprised if Mike and Jerry did the same thing here for the same reasons here (yes I know they shut the forums down before but that was for different reasons). I'd expect them to warn people and give them a bit of time to sort out something else. This is a classic Scott Kurtz impulsive, emotional decision.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    One thing is for sure. If he actually makes the move to Seattle next year as he is planning to I've got a feeling he would do well to learn a lot from Mike and Jerry

    amateurhour on

    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I do go out of my way to support PA because I enjoy these forums a lot. I follow the political threads as basically infodumps on issues I care about and G&T is 100% more reliable for opinions on new releases than any other site I've been to. I've bought the game and, off the top of my head, around six shirts from the PA site. I'm looking at picking up shirts numbers 7 through 9 in a couple weeks, as well.

    As to Kurtz shutting down his forums, it's understandable. Sometimes costs really do cut into everything else, but I'd have figured that a 24-hour notice with more clear explanation on the circumstances (as well as return) would've been a better way to handle it.

    EDIT: The artist/viewer relationship is something I spend quite some time thinking about. It's not as one-sided as people seem to think. I believe it's much more a symbotic relationship, because one side needs the other.

    Basically, the artist can create whatever the hell they want. But, whatever the hell they've created won't necessarily make them millions of dollars and net them blowjobs at the Playboy mansion (or whatever else the artist may want the piece to do). In fact, the artists has no say whatsoever on the impact of a piece of work. The impact depends entirely on the audience, the people who consume the art. They are the ones who really dictate the value of a given piece of art.

    Without loyal readership (several of whom, but not a majority I think, post in these forums) Penny Arcade would've been a neat little webcomic but nothing more and likely would have fizzled out in the lean year when Jerry was having all those personal problems. But, the audience kept coming back and coming back, giving a real sense of worth to Mike and Jerry's art. As much as the consistent creation kept the readers coming back, it was the readers who enabled Mike and Jerry to make a living off of nine panels a week. One side needs the other.

    LibrarianThorne on
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