I know... it's easier for me to blame Fox than realize that I live in the kind of world where this show isn't kicking Monday night's ass.
Any ideas about why this show is slipping so bad in ratings? I know it has it's problems, but we also get to enjoy generally deep characters with hidden agendas acting with some sense of logic while making decidedly human errors, enjoyable villains, robots, explosions, and a plot that makes both good use of internal logic and, most importantly, fucking sense.
Pretty sure you just answered your own question.
If it isn't A Dancing Star with Sparklers Up Their Ass, American television audiences have trouble?
Guess what? More scheduling BS, depriving us of one episode before February.
We were informed last week that Fox wanted to run a two-hour Prison Break finale in the slot [December 15] that would have been our mid-season finale, the episode Earthlings Welcome Here. In order to keep that episode our finale (as it was designed to be), we are shifting the mostly stand-alone Alpine Fields into the second half of our schedule. It is worth noting that we (TPTB@TSCC) had already shifted Alpine Fields one other time due to our own whims and inclinations, so if nothing else, the episode does pack light and knows better than to make friends or put down roots.
So never fear. Everything’s the same. Just a little different. Kinda like the future.
I know... it's easier for me to blame Fox than realize that I live in the kind of world where this show isn't kicking Monday night's ass.
Any ideas about why this show is slipping so bad in ratings? I know it has it's problems, but we also get to enjoy generally deep characters with hidden agendas acting with some sense of logic while making decidedly human errors, enjoyable villains, robots, explosions, and a plot that makes both good use of internal logic and, most importantly, fucking sense.
Pretty sure you just answered your own question.
If it isn't A Dancing Star with Sparklers Up Their Ass, American television audiences have trouble?
And it is up against a hugely busy monday night line up. Chuck, HIMYM, Big Bang Theory. Monday is easily the strongest night of the week even once dancing with the stars is removed. Tuesday, or Thursday would be a much happier home for Terminator, I'd watch it then.
As it is while I like River as a terminator, and John Connor when he isn't being babied and whiney, Sarah Connors character annoys me enough that I'll watch any of the three shows I listed first.
If they're so concerned about Prison Break maybe they should move it to a timeslot where they /won't/ get owned by Heroes every week. Or just cancel a crappy show.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
Sarahs investigation? A guy came back from the future and painted a list of peoples names in his own blood on the wall. Maybe he really needed a pen.
I don't know, if I was shot up and needed to leave a message I'd write it in my own blood too. I mean, sure, the last words of a dying man and all, but a message in blood tends to leave more of an impression on the mind.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
Shirleybot seemed to enjoy killing the powerplant dude and the guy in the bathroom.
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
Shirleybot seemed to enjoy killing the powerplant dude and the guy in the bathroom.
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
That sounds about right. It's not about helping the humans, but disagreeing with Skynet's "kill all humans" agenda, since we all know that Skynet loses that battle eventually.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
Shirleybot seemed to enjoy killing the powerplant dude and the guy in the bathroom.
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
Terminators in general are bloodthirsty. "Good" or not, if something's impeding them, they're going to kill it unless stopped. I think they "enjoy" violence- note how once forbidden to kill, Arnold took some kind of perverse delight in kneecapping people, while Cameron once tried to plan an entire day around killing a bird in the chimney.
Also, the two dead guys were assholes. Keep in mind that the first one's last words called Catherine a bitch, and the power plant guy is the same scumbag that forced Sarah to scrub down in front of him.
Maybe Catherine is the world's first cybernetic feminist. Fembots are doin' it for themselves
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
Shirleybot seemed to enjoy killing the powerplant dude and the guy in the bathroom.
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
That sounds about right. It's not about helping the humans, but disagreeing with Skynet's "kill all humans" agenda, since we all know that Skynet loses that battle eventually.
Does it? The sky is scorched and all the resources are gone. Even if Skynet loses, does humanity win?
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
well
we've seen a lot of evidence that the longer a terminator is "off the leash" the more it thiniks for itself, and the t-1000s are particularly advanced (and don't appear to have any fixed "chip" or anything to limit them)...so she could be developing her own adgenda all the time.
Terminators in general are bloodthirsty. "Good" or not, if something's impeding them, they're going to kill it unless stopped. I think they "enjoy" violence- note how once forbidden to kill, Arnold took some kind of perverse delight in kneecapping people, while Cameron once tried to plan an entire day around killing a bird in the chimney.
There's also Cromartie's comment when he's setting the mouse traps. Also in T2 there was that whole element where everytime the T-1000 offed someone it tended to spend some time looking at it's weapons.
I suppose to a certain extent though it might not even be about killing - it might just be about fulfilling objectives. Terminators main jobs are to kill people, so they feel pleasure when they do it particularly well. If someone rewrote that goal in a more substantial way then redirecting who they killed, then maybe they'd be quite different.
So...is it possible that the Shirley-bot isn't even part of the Skynet agenda?
I'm beginning to wonder if she might be a breakaway group of Terminators who decided that the original Skynet was too flawed to ever win the war; or maybe that ever even starting a war was a bad tactical decision to begin with. Teaching John Henry about empathy doesn't really seem to make much sense to me otherwise.
As for her killing the opposition; if you're amoral to begin with, ( which all Terminator models introduced this far have been ), human life is of secondary importance to completing the mission goals, whatever they may be.
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
I agree that her wanting to teach John Henry empathy does not fit with someone who would be trying to establish Skynet.
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
Shirleybot seemed to enjoy killing the powerplant dude and the guy in the bathroom.
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
That sounds about right. It's not about helping the humans, but disagreeing with Skynet's "kill all humans" agenda, since we all know that Skynet loses that battle eventually.
Does it? The sky is scorched and all the resources are gone. Even if Skynet loses, does humanity win?
Eventually, they have access to advanced technology
So I'm thinking Shirlybot installs that bouncing baby AI she keeps in the basement into Cromarties body and it goes nuts. I'll bet you one pound it happens.
I called it. You guys owe me a pound.
the chip is destroyed, and I don't think cromartie can carry the whole huge computer complex with him :P
Shirley-Bot's primary motivation isn't too complicated. The resistance tried to destroy the Turk. Her job is to make sure that it doesn't get destroyed. Since Andy Goode got killed and is no longer around to develop the project, she needs to fill the void.
yes , but
as she really doesn't know too much about AIs apart from being one herself (she's a terminator after all, they're supposed to terminate, not create.) she's probably doing on hell of a job making skynet into something it never would have been
also, wouldn't it be immensly stupid to cancel this show with a possibly successful terminator movie on the horizon?
Terminators don't do emotion guys. They don't feel pleasure in killing people or completing objectives.
which is contrasted by how they are constantly portrayed by the actors who play them
oh but they do
remember that scene from terminator 2
Where they find the weapon stash and Arnie finds the minigun? He smiles, something which John had been trying to teach him after he deactivated his skynet-imposed "safeties" which prevented too much learning. John even says something along the lines of
"Now THAT is definitely you!", in contrast to the smile he tried to copy of that random guy on the street
So Cameron is so godamn perky lately because she's still in some kind of terminator afterglow after relieving her pent up frustrations at the bowling alley and church?
Actually makes sense.
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JohnnyCacheStarting DefensePlace at the tableRegistered Userregular
Terminators don't do emotion guys. They don't feel pleasure in killing people or completing objectives.
which is contrasted by how they are constantly portrayed by the actors who play them
They have to DISPLAY emotions at times to be good terminators.
The line between instinct, display, and "real" emotion is one of the interesting things about the continuity
So Cameron is so godamn perky lately because she's still in some kind of terminator afterglow after relieving her pent up frustrations at the bowling alley and church?
Actually makes sense.
You don't mess with that girl's jacket.
Mei Hikari on
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
NEW EPISODE IS COMING ON KIDS GATHER AROUND THE TIME TRAVEL LOGIC DESTROYER.
Wooooooooo! All Cameron, all the time! It's nice she finally got a good chunk of face time. I really do like her character development (whether it's seducing John or barging in on a paraplegic while he's taking a piss). The angry rant by the wheelchair dude (I want to call him Thomas, is that right?) was revealing in a how far away from human she is. But at the same time, she was just trying to help. It was great!
Also, John finally channeled his inner Humanity's-saviour all over that guy's face. Jesus, it was so satisfying to see him kick ass.
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited December 2008
1920's terminator holy shit I want an entire movie about that
That was a really, really good episode. I take it, though, that we weren't supposed to have prior knowledge of the Eric character? Otherwise I missed something along the way.
EDIT: The fact that new episodes are only spawning 4-5 posts is scaring the hell out of me. WATCH THIS SHOW!
Posts
How right you are...
If they're so willing to fuck it over, they obviously don't give a shit. Fox I mean.
And it is up against a hugely busy monday night line up. Chuck, HIMYM, Big Bang Theory. Monday is easily the strongest night of the week even once dancing with the stars is removed. Tuesday, or Thursday would be a much happier home for Terminator, I'd watch it then.
As it is while I like River as a terminator, and John Connor when he isn't being babied and whiney, Sarah Connors character annoys me enough that I'll watch any of the three shows I listed first.
Derek is my favorite character on the show
Is he your favourite or your "favourite"?
I never finish anyth
I wondered about this initially, and I feel like last night's episode confirms it.
Her story about John Henry certainly sounded like something that'd come from someone seeking to destroy Skynet.
the fact that brian austin green is a very attractive man probably helps
However, her comment about John Henry sounded more like a lament, rather than a statement of intent. As far as she's concerned, it's already happened, I think. She doesn't want it to happen again in the same way, but she wants Skynet to arise.
I'm not sure if it was bad writing, bad acting or what, but...
It leads me to think that, while she does have motives contrary to Skynet as we know it, her plans aren't quite benevolant. I bet she aims to create a Skynet that's overlord of humanity rather than our destroyer.
Well, if you can't get them on Hulu, I think the beginning of the season premier should bring you up to speed IFRC.
That sounds about right. It's not about helping the humans, but disagreeing with Skynet's "kill all humans" agenda, since we all know that Skynet loses that battle eventually.
Terminators in general are bloodthirsty. "Good" or not, if something's impeding them, they're going to kill it unless stopped. I think they "enjoy" violence- note how once forbidden to kill, Arnold took some kind of perverse delight in kneecapping people, while Cameron once tried to plan an entire day around killing a bird in the chimney.
Also, the two dead guys were assholes. Keep in mind that the first one's last words called Catherine a bitch, and the power plant guy is the same scumbag that forced Sarah to scrub down in front of him.
Maybe Catherine is the world's first cybernetic feminist. Fembots are doin' it for themselves
Does it? The sky is scorched and all the resources are gone. Even if Skynet loses, does humanity win?
I host a podcast about movies.
thanks, and yeah, Hulu only goes to S2E1, from what i found
I suppose to a certain extent though it might not even be about killing - it might just be about fulfilling objectives. Terminators main jobs are to kill people, so they feel pleasure when they do it particularly well. If someone rewrote that goal in a more substantial way then redirecting who they killed, then maybe they'd be quite different.
Eventually, they have access to advanced technology
which is contrasted by how they are constantly portrayed by the actors who play them
I think they purposely did that scene to leave you in the dark about her intentions
yes , but
oh but they do
remember that scene from terminator 2
"Now THAT is definitely you!", in contrast to the smile he tried to copy of that random guy on the street
Actually makes sense.
They have to DISPLAY emotions at times to be good terminators.
The line between instinct, display, and "real" emotion is one of the interesting things about the continuity
I host a podcast about movies.
You don't mess with that girl's jacket.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Also, John finally channeled his inner Humanity's-saviour all over that guy's face. Jesus, it was so satisfying to see him kick ass.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
EDIT: The fact that new episodes are only spawning 4-5 posts is scaring the hell out of me. WATCH THIS SHOW!