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PAX 2071! (A Shadowrun Phalla) GAME OVER. Runners win!

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Posts

  • DarianDarian regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Well, either grudge or RNG

    Most people won't hit their grudge day one with a vig or mafia kill, anyway, because it would be too obvious that they would be behind it. (e.g., MacGuffin in the vampire phalla kept us away from taking kime out early).

    Darian on
  • ZellpherZellpher regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Yeah, the bugs were underpowered. I was trying to avoid giving them a straight out kill because I thought that would have been overpowered, what with...IIRC 6 non-conditional kills and 2 conditional ones. Should have accounted for role blocking though. Speaking of which I had no idea why LS didn't just jail drez when they knew he basically came out saying, "Hey, I'm a vig, but some asshole keeps blocking me." but maybe I'm just not as crafty. The second riddle thing, which was way too meta, was that abysmal lynx was targeting gumpy each night. For toob and squib, I was really sad when you guys died so early. Also, infidel totally saved my ass on day 3 by writing the narration up and pming people, so you should all give him a hug, or booze/hookers.

    Zellpher on
  • DrezDrez regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I'm going to Vig a few selected people D1 when I get the chance. Grudge kills are fun. (You're not on that list, if it matters).

    Grudge kills are the dumbest shit on the fucking forum.

    People who cry about grudge kills are the dumbest people in the forum.

    No, grudge kills are the dumbest thing on this forum, bar absolutely nothing. Each game is a separate entity from every other game. Grudge voting and especially grudge kills are so unbelievably obnoxious.

    Yea each game is seperate, blah blah. No one EVER metagames previous games or ANYTHING.

    Oh yes, a lot of people do. And they are all dumb.

    You make it sound as though I give a damn that it's a popular activity, or that that makes it right. I don't and it doesn't.

    Look, voting for someone on Day One as a grudge, that's one thing. Starting a bandwagon on the person, or killing them outright is just a dick move.

    Drez on
  • DrezDrez regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Zellpher wrote: »
    Yeah, the bugs were underpowered. I was trying to avoid giving them a straight out kill because I thought that would have been overpowered, what with...IIRC 6 non-conditional kills and 2 conditional ones. Should have accounted for role blocking though. Speaking of which I had no idea why LS didn't just jail drez when they knew he basically came out saying, "Hey, I'm a vig, but some asshole keeps blocking me." but maybe I'm just not as crafty. The second riddle thing, which was way too meta, was that abysmal lynx was targeting gumpy each night. For toob and squib, I was really sad when you guys died so early. Also, infidel totally saved my ass on day 3 by writing the narration up and pming people, so you should all give him a hug, or booze/hookers.

    Do you know why nobody saw me attack Gumpy on Day One?


    Really enjoyable game btw. I have no idea why both baddie groups let me live for so long.

    Drez on
  • abotkinabotkin regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    Zellpher wrote: »
    Yeah, the bugs were underpowered. I was trying to avoid giving them a straight out kill because I thought that would have been overpowered, what with...IIRC 6 non-conditional kills and 2 conditional ones. Should have accounted for role blocking though. Speaking of which I had no idea why LS didn't just jail drez when they knew he basically came out saying, "Hey, I'm a vig, but some asshole keeps blocking me." but maybe I'm just not as crafty. The second riddle thing, which was way too meta, was that abysmal lynx was targeting gumpy each night. For toob and squib, I was really sad when you guys died so early. Also, infidel totally saved my ass on day 3 by writing the narration up and pming people, so you should all give him a hug, or booze/hookers.

    Do you know why nobody saw me attack Gumpy on Day One?


    Really enjoyable game btw. I have no idea why both baddie groups let me live for so long.

    Us bugs only had 2 opportunities for guaranteed kills the entire game (and those could likely have been guarded against).

    And a question Drez: What makes grudge kills worse than RNG kills? And if both are just as bad, what should someone with a vig ability do day 1? Nothing? From what I've seen, there is never enough data day 1 to pick a legitimate vig target day 1 unless you are the mafia (at which point anyone not mafia is fair game). And I honestly can't see enough reason not to use a vig ability just because you don't have a good target.

    abotkin on
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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    abotkin wrote: »
    Us bugs only had 2 opportunities for guaranteed kills the entire game (and those could likely have been guarded against).

    And a question Drez: What makes grudge kills worse than RNG kills? And if both are just as bad, what should someone with a vig ability do day 1? Nothing? From what I've seen, there is never enough data day 1 to pick a legitimate vig target day 1 unless you are the mafia (at which point anyone not mafia is fair game). And I honestly can't see enough reason not to use a vig ability just because you don't have a good target.
    Intuition, motherfucker. (James Doakes moment, sorry)

    Grudge kills establish a meta-line of continuity between games which doesn't sound exactly bad at first blush but it gives a huge advantage to those who have played more beyond the experience they would have already picked up.

    Would you take a pledge of trust as serious from some random punk as you would Ardor?

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    It was a great game, Zell, Infy, and Mr B.

    I enjoyed playing it, and watching it.

    I will grudge vote Darkewolfe (please note not grudge kill) for a few games.

    Mostly just because it gives me something to do on a day one.

    Anybody has any other problems or questions for me about the accusations that EBM levelled at me, they can PM me.

    lonelyahava on
  • KrataLightbladeKrataLightblade Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Bug boards unlocked, sorry guys, I spent all day watching DVDs and playing some Dawn of War.

    Anyway.

    I did love this game, even if we did lose. I was pretty sure we would, though, once we all started getting outed. I should've probably advised against contacting Gumpy, but...

    I also appreciate all of you not putting 2 and 2 together in this thread and vigging me the instant EBM went batshit.

    The funny part is, all that was based on a comment I made trying to be ironic. It was a fucking joke, but there's really no point explaining that to someone who's going insane on you, as Infidel kindly pointed out. Ahava and I didn't actually have a pregame alliance, we never do. We simply haven't ever run into a circumstance where either of us had to lie to the other before (normally, we're on the same side). This time, we both lied to each other, and I love that she was able to. It only reaffirms me in my belief that she and I can chat about Phalla and she won't feel any worse for fucking me over than I will for fucking HER over.

    Spectre, i was sorry to see you go. Someday, I hope to end up evil with you again, so I can request that you teach me everything you fucking know. If people kill you by day 4 because otherwise you win the game, I want to be you, man. *L*

    I'm sorry Max died, too. I was hoping he'd live long enough to make use of his new conversion ability. So sad we didn't do better...

    Glad to be a part of this game, guys. Thanks for the fun.

    Also, Drez.

    I don't hate you. I promise.

    KrataLightblade on
    LEVEL 50 SWORD JUGGLER/WIZARD!
  • ExarchExarch regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Early game grudges are the result of not having any information to go on. I think more games need mechanics specifically designed to make day one eventful, so that people aren't just shooting blind. Half the discussion day one is normally about basic game mechanics and/or fluff, so really there's nothing for a vig to go on.

    People may be dumb and gun for people due to past losses, but generally when given a way to help them win now, they'll take that road instead. Often day one you sit looking at a list of names, none of them any more suspect than the others, so you figure hey, why not be a dick. It's still a dickish move, but it's a problem that can be averted through game design.

    Exarch on
    No gods or kings, only man.
    LoL: BunyipAristocrat
  • EvilBadmanEvilBadman DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I'm going to finish by stating I have seen people agreeing with my stance, and coming forward supporting me privately, presumably to avoid becoming a pariah. Everyone else is going to stick their fingers in their ears and deny everything. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

    EvilBadman on
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    I should note that Badman is fucking awesome
    XBL- Evil Badman; Steam- EvilBadman; Twitter - EvilBadman
  • DrezDrez regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    abotkin wrote: »
    Us bugs only had 2 opportunities for guaranteed kills the entire game (and those could likely have been guarded against).

    And a question Drez: What makes grudge kills worse than RNG kills? And if both are just as bad, what should someone with a vig ability do day 1? Nothing? From what I've seen, there is never enough data day 1 to pick a legitimate vig target day 1 unless you are the mafia (at which point anyone not mafia is fair game). And I honestly can't see enough reason not to use a vig ability just because you don't have a good target.
    Intuition, motherfucker. (James Doakes moment, sorry)

    Grudge kills establish a meta-line of continuity between games which doesn't sound exactly bad at first blush but it gives a huge advantage to those who have played more beyond the experience they would have already picked up.

    Would you take a pledge of trust as serious from some random punk as you would Ardor?

    Exactly.

    Drez on
  • DrezDrez regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Also, Drez.

    I don't hate you. I promise.

    OK.

    Drez on
  • Abysmal LynxAbysmal Lynx Registered User
    edited December 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    That was fun. I got to be in two networks. The one thing I'm wondering though is who killed me?

    The_Reflection

    And it was my fault. I had some minor suspicion of you and threw your name his way.

    I floated your name to Gumpy first after he suggested Wildcat to me. I attacked Wildcat but I asked T_R to kill you and he did.

    Sorry about that. I guess Gumpy did not wholly trust me at that point because he did not give me any indication that you would be a BAD target. The language he used made it sound like he didn't think about you any which way.

    I was a pretty awful vig, all told.

    No hard feelings, that's just how the game goes. It does suck to be taken out by your own allies though.

    Abysmal Lynx on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • EgosEgos regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Drez wrote: »
    abotkin wrote: »
    Us bugs only had 2 opportunities for guaranteed kills the entire game (and those could likely have been guarded against).

    And a question Drez: What makes grudge kills worse than RNG kills? And if both are just as bad, what should someone with a vig ability do day 1? Nothing? From what I've seen, there is never enough data day 1 to pick a legitimate vig target day 1 unless you are the mafia (at which point anyone not mafia is fair game). And I honestly can't see enough reason not to use a vig ability just because you don't have a good target.
    Intuition, motherfucker. (James Doakes moment, sorry)

    Grudge kills establish a meta-line of continuity between games which doesn't sound exactly bad at first blush but it gives a huge advantage to those who have played more beyond the experience they would have already picked up.

    Would you take a pledge of trust as serious from some random punk as you would Ardor?

    Exactly.

    There are some other punks I would trust ;-)

    Egos on
  • OatsOats regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    EvilBadman wrote: »
    I'm going to finish by stating I have seen people agreeing with my stance, and coming forward supporting me privately, presumably to avoid becoming a pariah. Everyone else is going to stick their fingers in their ears and deny everything. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

    I for one also think that pregame alliances are dumb.

    However, you were killed by someone who didn't know who you were or anything else about you.

    This undercuts your whole argument.

    Oats on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Eh.

    An argument doesn't have to be specifically applicable to be generally correct.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • OatsOats regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    True, and I agree with him for the most part.

    I do disagree with how outraged he was and how he voiced his concerns, however.

    There are better ways of going about this sort of thing.

    Oats on
  • CodograzanWardCodograzanWard Registered User
    edited December 2008
    this was my first time, I was excited to have a role like a target seer and leading to Maximus's death. What happened was Night 3 or something I target seered Krata targetting Maximus. When Krata was shown as a bug I target seered Maximus, who targetted Inquisitor who was jailed. I assumed Max jailed Inquis. That was probably my biggest contribution. That made me content with my role

    I think one thing that really got the bad guys down quick was unintended crossfire.

    CodograzanWard on
  • KrataLightbladeKrataLightblade Registered User
    edited December 2008
    this was my first time, I was excited to have a role like a target seer and leading to Maximus's death. What happened was Night 3 or something I target seered Krata targetting Maximus. When Krata was shown as a bug I target seered Maximus, who targetted Inquisitor who was jailed. I assumed Max jailed Inquis. That was probably my biggest contribution. That made me content with my role

    I think one thing that really got the bad guys down quick was unintended crossfire.

    Holy hell my bug sacrifice was targetted?

    No wonder we all got splattered.

    KrataLightblade on
    LEVEL 50 SWORD JUGGLER/WIZARD!
  • GrundlterrorGrundlterror regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Hellz yeah! Can't believe I had to so plainly spell out that I was a ganger to the other gangers, I thought the kris kross jump lyrics would have done the trick.

    Grundlterror on
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  • DarianDarian regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Yeah... I really didn't read my role pm anywhere near well enough. I missed warban, too, else I could probably have kept Darkewolfe away from him.

    Darian on
  • warbanwarban Who the Hoof do you think we are? Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Darian wrote: »
    Yeah... I really didn't read my role pm anywhere near well enough. I missed warban, too, else I could probably have kept Darkewolfe away from him.
    GRUDGING!

    :P


    SO MUCH RIGHT NOW

    :P

    warban on
    ACE ✰ PONY ✰ DETECTIVE!
  • DarianDarian regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Get in line :P

    Darian on
  • GrundlterrorGrundlterror regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Shamus is still the best neutral. "Hi Drez. I guess you're Sabbat? Here's a list of village specials including all four guardians and both seers."

    Gumpy did an excellent job this game, though.
    Maaan, he only got away with that because I died and the person I gave all my info to was new.

    Yes Grundl, I still blame you.

    Best day 1 plan ever.

    Haha, I tried goddammit, I TRIED!!!

    Grundlterror on
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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Would you take a pledge of trust as serious from some random punk as you would Ardor?
    Yes and no.

    On one hand, a new player is more likely to trust someone blindly.

    On the other hand, Ardor could be manipulating said new player.


    Weighing the options, I probably would trust a new player more than a vet, because vets are (generally) sneakier.

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    New players should be far more careful with trusting vets than any vet should be trusting each other or newbies.

    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*

    lonelyahava on
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    New players should be far more careful with trusting vets than any vet should be trusting each other or newbies.

    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*
    I'm not sure you should give advice on who to trust, Ahava. :P

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    New players should be far more careful with trusting vets than any vet should be trusting each other or newbies.

    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*
    I'm not sure you should give advice on who to trust, Ahava. :P

    My point exactly, you mean mean evil evil bad bad man!

    Bad Spectre! Bad!!!


    Newbies:: Always trust Spectre. Until Day 3.

    lonelyahava on
  • Dac VinDac Vin S-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC! Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Alternately, Trust No Oneâ„¢

    Okay, bad idea. You COULD do it, but that would be too boring.

    Dac Vin on
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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I never trust anyone.

    TehSpectre on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited December 2008
    But it won't stop him from manipulating people that do. science.gif

    cj iwakura on
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  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    :whistle:

    TehSpectre on
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  • M.D.M.D. and then what happens? Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Who killed izuvan and why?

    edit - everyone should always trust me

    M.D. on
  • The_ReflectionThe_Reflection regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I killed Izuvan for being super inactive then popping up out of no where. It made me suspicious.

    The_Reflection on
    SYSOP wrote: »

    "The_Reflection has a story, that must be told"..."He is already a legend, and he ain't even old"
    "He can drink a river of blood and not burst"..."He can swallow a desert and never thirst"
  • EgosEgos regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*

    I don't know...manipulating extremely new players seems somewhat in poor taste..

    Egos on
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Egos wrote: »
    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*

    I don't know...manipulating extremely new players seems somewhat in poor taste..
    They gotta learn somehow. :P

    Also, if you're gonna play the role of a villain, you may as well go all in. Knowhadimean?

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • DrezDrez regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Egos wrote: »
    Cause Vets are not nice. *L*

    I don't know...manipulating extremely new players seems somewhat in poor taste..

    This is not something I agree with. I mean I certainly feel guilty about it later, but like I said, each game is its own game, which cuts both ways.

    Really, phalla is all about psychology and social engineering. It's not exactly "meta" to carry the skills you've cultivated in multiple previous games over to a new one. And I think avoiding noobs is a bad idea. I was leery of killing Crownaxe because I didn't want to kill some dude that has like 30 posts total in his entire PA career. But then I realized that was a mistake (plus Gumpy suggested him as a target - in fact, I forgot, I recommended The_Reflection kill Lynx over Crownaxe which was damned dumb on my part).

    Drez on
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    I try to treat new players as if they're anyone else.

    If they act suspicious in any way, I will use a kill/bandwagon them in a heartbeat.

    TehSpectre on
    Sloth_Sig.png
  • piLpiL regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Who killed izuvan and why?

    edit - everyone should always trust me

    I was so scared you were going to bandwagon me on day one.

    piL on
  • DarianDarian regular Registered User regular
    edited December 2008
    Who killed izuvan and why?

    edit - everyone should always trust me

    Yes, because trusting you never gets anyone killed because you slept through vote close.

    :|

    Darian on
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