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Driving on icy roads
OremLK
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This is a quick, non-critical thread.
I live in central Texas. It is icy here right now, and there is snow. This is unusual for me, and I'm about to drive 100 miles home to Houston for Christmas tomorrow morning.
Now, I've never driven on potentially icy roads at length and at the 70MPH speeds I'll likely be doing tomorrow (yes, that's the speed limit). Is there anything I should know?
Other information: Vehicle is a mid-90s Honda Accord, the tires are inflated to the proper pressure level.
I live in central Texas. It is icy here right now, and there is snow. This is unusual for me, and I'm about to drive 100 miles home to Houston for Christmas tomorrow morning.
Now, I've never driven on potentially icy roads at length and at the 70MPH speeds I'll likely be doing tomorrow (yes, that's the speed limit). Is there anything I should know?
Other information: Vehicle is a mid-90s Honda Accord, the tires are inflated to the proper pressure level.
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There, now you might not kill yourself.
Edit: Also, keep in mind when I say icy roads that this is Texas, and I am a Texan. I'm probably making a big deal here--we're talking the possibility of an occasional patch of ice, not snow carpeting the surface of the highway.
You need to drive at a speed that won't kill you. If it's really icy, you probably won't be driving faster than 5-10 MPH. You might even want to consider postponing your trip home until the roads clear.
Basically, ice amplifies everything you do. You need to be really light with acceleration, braking and turning otherwise your wheels will spin or lock and you will loose control of the car. It's a bit like sailing an oil tanker - if you want to stop or turn, you need to start braking a lot earlier.
- Drive according to the conditions, not the speed limit. Chances are you will have a slow journey tomorrow. - Take your time. Drive according to your comfort.
- If you feel you're about to skid, don't panic and resist the urge to brake right away. Usually you'll get grip back momentarily.
- When you are braking, try to have your wheels going straight ahead. Otherwise you're more prone to skidding.
- If your vehicle doesn't have ABS, pump the brake when you're coming up to a stop and the vehicle is sliding. Otherwise, just hold down the brake pedal and let the ABS do the pumping.
- Brake well ahead of any turns you need to do. As mentioned earlier, braking and having your wheels turned leaves you more prone to skidding. Best to brake early and then glide into the turn.
- SLOW DOWN. If the roads are icy, just take it slow and easy.
Unless TxDOT is woefully under-prepared (and I've never known Texans to be under-prepared), the interstates were all rock salted and probably never froze over to begin with. Even if they did get patchy, though, they'll have been completely cleared (or will have melted away) by this time tomorrow.
I have a feeling everyone freaking out at you is thinking New England/Great Lakes icy, not Ozarks/Midwest icy. There's a very, very high likelihood that you will not encounter any ice on the roads tomorrow. You mentioned being about 100 miles out, so if you're in Bryan or something, I wouldn't even sweat it.
Still, a few tips:
(1) Deflate your tires a few psi. It'll hurt your gas mileage, but you'll have more rubber touching the road, leading to increased friction, leading to slightly better handling.
(2) You will need to accelerate and brake much more cautiously than you're probably used to. If you slam your foot down on either pedal, you will start to lose control. Allow yourself 2-3 times as much braking distance as normal, and accelerate at least half as slowly as normal.
(3) Keep away from other cars as best as you can. Odds are most of the other people on the road don't know how to drive on ice either, and at least some of them will go off the road.
I'm with pixels on this one. I'm sure they salt most of the roads that are known to be icy. They did in NY at least.
Overpasses and bridges ice up first, and they might remain icy even when the temp goes back up over 32 degrees. So if it's close to or below freezing and the highway doesn't seem icy, still be sure to drive a bit more carefully on the overpasses and bridges.
It's still possible to coast over a totally iced over bridge, but I wouldn't do it at a high rate of speed, and I'd try to keep the tires in the thawed out tracks of the cars/trucks that crossed before you.
edit: Huge state with millions of miles of highways (lots of overpasses/bridges) and mild weather combine for bad times driving when roads ice up. For example, at least once a year Austin pretty much shuts down because we can't handle 1-1.5 inches of persistent ice on the road. Combine that with hill country and things like 100-200 ft. high flyovers and it makes for some interesting local news coverage.
Waco, so pretty close, but a little farther north. Yeah, I didn't think it was going to be hugely dangerous, that's why I mentioned driving at the speed limit--I just thought I'd make a thread to be prepared, since I have very little experience with even the chance of things getting icy.
Edit: Thanks, Djeet, I'll make sure to be cautious especially on the bridges. But I'm thinking we might wait until noon or so to leave just to be safe, it's supposed to be 40 by then.
If you're going 70 and hit ice there is no chance you'll get out of a fishtail. At 40-50 you've got a chance. You should be able to tell pretty quickly just by looking at the road if you'll have any trouble.
To the OP:
You need to drive at a speed that matches the conditions. No one here can give you a specific speed at which you should drive because we aren't there to drive on it. Just don't be retarded and drive 70 MPH on ice.
2 and 3 are fine, but #1? No, no, no, NO. Absolutely do not do that. Underinflating your tires will give you increased flex/sidewall stress resulting in poorer handling, as well as amplifying chances of a blowout.
Speaking of pressure, you are using the Accord's doorjamb information and not just pumping it up to the maximum on the sidewall, right?
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If you're at all anxious about it, I think your best bet would be cutting over to I-45 and taking it all the way south. You only add 15 or 20 minutes that way (depending on which side of Waco you're on), and it cuts your highway driving to almost nothing.
I'm with pixels on this one. I'm sure they salt most of the roads that are known to be icy. They did in NY at least.[/QUOTE]
First, you'd be surprised...many states simply aren't prepared for icy roads if they don't get them often. This is why some areas will just completely shut down due to levels of snow that places like New York see routinely.
But I don't know Texas, so perhaps it's fine.
That said, though, really it shouldn't be a big deal. Your Accord is front-wheel drive, correct? This eliminates your biggest concern, which is massive fishtailing and spinning the hell out...I learned this the hard way the first time I drove across Montana in the snow in my RWD truck (had never driven RWD on snow before).
It wasn't pretty.
In front wheel drive, on the kinds of icy you'll probably see, mostly just keep your speed down as appropriate (50mph or so) and increase following distance as much as humanly possible. You'll be fine.
Yes, yes, yes...the manufacturer already recommends the tire pressure that will give you best handling. Decreasing the pressure can actually REDUCE the amount of contact the tires have with the road.
That is, from what I understand, completely dependent on the type of tire in use. It's hit or miss usually with higher pressure and less surface area generally being better for snow driving (less surface area = more lbs/sq inch and slightly better traction). They're negligible differences though. If you're driving 50 in 4 inches of snow, you're fucked no matter what your pressure is. Lowering your PSI is only good for driving in sandy environments, btw, that somehow made it as "well snow is like sand." Lower PSI = more friction and more heat which is really really bad in winter weather sometimes.
I want to address this "Turn into/with the skid" line as well. I've seen people think that when they oversteer left, they need to turn the wheel left, because "that's the way I was skidding." "Turn the wheel in the direction you want to go." As soon as you're back in line, wind the wheel back to point you straight to avoid "overcorrecting."
FWD doesn't make you immune to oversteer either; if you're turning and your front tires suddenly bite hard while your back ones are floating, guess what, you're going to slide the back end out. I might even argue that someone in a RWD vehicle is better prepared for it, if only from having [strike]done some smoky donuts in a parking lot[/strike] previous experience in power-induced oversteer scenarios.
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I guess that the difference for me is that I never once had any real oversteer issues on ice in my Civic...now, I was fairly experience at driving on ice and snow in it (Montana and all) so perhaps that helped. But yes, you can have slight issues with turning. But with a RWD my entire ass end flew out from behind me while driving straight. As in, I did a complete 180 out of the blue. Because on a rear wheel drive if you're wheels aren't all perfectly aligned (as in with the slightest bit of routine back-and-forth correction as you drive straight) that's all it takes to cause a spin-out on ice. Especially with an inexperienced driver. And with nobody even telling me to put weight in the back (whereas with FWD your engine is over the drive wheels). And I wasn't even going all that fast (50mph or so, which still had people constantly going around me which is just as dangerous).
I'm not saying that FWD makes you immune to it, but it's like 99% less likely to be an issue in a FWD over RWD, especially for a driver unaccustomed to snow/ice.
I was driving with my brother, and he dodged a blown out tire on the road and overcompensated his turn (continued turning left as we were going left, like Peregrine just explained), and we ended up in the next lane, traveling backwards at 60 mph for 5-6 seconds, facing a semi truck which was about 20 feet in front of us. We were driving in the middle of a Michigan winter, which we are very used to driving in.
Luckily we slid gracefully off the road (he was still turning left), and landed in a freshly plowed mound of snow. He only sustained minor alignment damage, and I spilt some coffee on his floor mats.
We could have been dead.
If he just hit the tire, he would have scraped up his bumper and, at worse, wrecked some shit under his car. Sometimes it's better to sustain a little bit of damage to the car, or kill a fuzzy woodland creature, than to kill yourself trying to avoid it.
I just didn't want him getting that implication, that's all. Didn't mean to make it seem like you were painting it as a godsend. I'm saving that particular crucifixion for the person who says that AWD/4WD and an SUV means that you can continue to drive normal summer speeds.
THIS. Sudden, sharp movements, such as those required to dodge a piece of debris, are a good way to get into trouble on ice. Glad you two are okay.
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Oh yeah, those people are idiots. You have to try a little harder in 4WD/AWD, but you can certainly do it.
And yes, unless it's a brick fucking wall or oncoming semi, hit it. You're much more likely to wind up dead trying to avoid any given obstacle/debris than just hitting it. Even if it will do critical damage to your car, trying to avoid it on ice can put you in oncoming traffic, rolled over, or ten feet off the road with your cranium lodged in a tree.
If you cannot avoid rear-ending someone, at a red-light for example, and there's nothing a snowbank to the right, run yourself aground on the snowbank if at all possible. Snow is a little more forgiving than metal, and an irate driver.
I did this a couple winters ago, and the driver saw me in the rear view mirror and pulled over to help me out of the snow bank, thanking me for not hitting him.
Good point, I had forgotten to mention that. :embarassed:
Here's my copypasta "Starter Winter Emergency Kit" that I posted in another thread:
That's a good place to start.
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Edited that note in there, thanks.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
At low speeds, definitely.
At high speeds, less so (obviously).
I've only ever hit one person due to ice, and it was a love-tap at a red light. Nothing but a small scratch on their bumper and a matching one on mine. They didn't even care enough to file, and actually laughed it off because they had slid just as badly into where they were stopped at the time. It was a fucking ice skating rink that night (I think it was like fifteen below or some shit, and no I don't mean wind chill).
I work for a well service company in Wyoming - I drive on the most deadly highways in the US, several hundred miles a day, so here's my .02 USD
I'm not quite understanding how peregrine is putting this, but to correct fishtail, you turn the wheel toward the back of the car. IE if the back wheels slide out to the left side, you turn the wheel counter-clockwise. If the back wheels slide out to the right, you turn the wheel clockwise. If you've never done this before, find an empty icy lot or something and try it, don't have your first attempt be on the road.
Tap the brakes. Even anti-lock brakes will perform better if you brake in bursts instead of stomping them down.
Pre-heat your car. Let your car run for at least 10 minutes if it's below 32.
You don't have to go crazy with a survival kit and there's no reason to carry tools you don't know how to use, but you should have jumper cables, something non-perishable (I use powerbars because I'm never tempted to eat them when I'm not stuck in a blizzard) gloves and a good winter hat. If you normally wear flimsy shoes a set of winter shoes and overshoes are good to have along. If you have the money, I personally think everyone should have a decent tool kit in the car. You might only use it once every five years, but that once will be last day you will want to try fixing something with a pen-knife or something.
Finally, rehearse a little. If you've never had a flat in your car, make sure you know where the jack is and that the jack will hold weight and where the spare is and that there's air in it and how to get it out of its rack (that sounds stupid, but some cars have EXTREMELY counter-intuitive spare holding systems and extremely well hidden jacks and tire tools)
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Last time I had a flat, it took me damn near an hour to find where the tire tools were. They looked (and were positioned) as if they were pieces of metal intended to prop the little "spare tire compartment" door up (like how hoods have a similar "propping" piece of metal), so I just ignored them until I finally took a really hard look at them and realized it was exactly what I was looking for.
When it's damn cold, you don't want to do that. In short, don't be an idiot like me.
Another good idea is if you have a lite car. Throw something heavy in the trunk. It will hurt you gas milage a bit but it will help your back end grip the ground better. Its especially helpful if you have a rear wheel drive.
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4wd are great for moving from a stop, and maintaining traction at low speeds.
But they are a fucking demon for making people overconfident.
Just ease into the stop. If ABS kicks in and you tap the brakes while it is essentially tapping the brakes for you, it increases stop time, plus you can mess up the system.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/12/03/aa.anti.lock.brakes/index.html
http://www2.nsc.org/library/facts/abs.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/anti-lock-brake.htm/printable
tl;dr DON'T PUMP ANTI LOCK BRAKES!
but they're listening to every word I say