Except that dwarfs have absolutely no magic phase.
I think Empire is what you're describing. Or Orcs & Goblins, however due to animosity O&G pretty much suck competitively.
I don't really care about being hyper-competitive. I mean, obviously I don't want to get slaughtered either but, I don't need to have a perfectly honed army.
I wouldn't have guessed that O&Gs had good shooting though.
O&G have decent war machines, but their infantry's shooting won't be winning any awards.
I think this tip goes well for everyone, but don't put your general/caster (especially if that person is both) out where a Fear-causing unit can break and kill them first turn. He's got both the Hydra and the Black Guard, both of which should be out ahead of any unit of Riders or whatever she was in. The Hydra has 5 toughness, the 4+ scaly skin and regen, so it's great for soaking up shooting (which the VC don't have, but whatever) and screening for your army. It's costly to do so, and I'd rather hit first, but it works. The Black Guard are pretty much the best option in your army for receiving a charge (with the Har Ganeth banner, anyways) and I can speak from experience that they will ruin Black Knight charges.
Any time your general dies like a chump you've either done something you shouldn't have or got really unlucky.
EDIT - What kind of unit was the Sorc even in? From the looks of it it was Dark Riders, which seems like a really odd choice.
Not really, she gets the benefits of fast cav movement, so she can dance around flinging magic. Of course the problem here was not using them well at all and leaving them exposed.
It's an odd choice if your reaction is apparently to stand and shoot (which is what it looks like he did). He could have easily fled, rallied and cast next turn.
I just sold a good chunk of my plastics betting on that. If they new release doesn't see at least new Clanrats and Slaves, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe buy all old Jes Goodwin metals?
They will get new plastics, which will possibly be one piece, which will hopefully rock.
I just sold a good chunk of my plastics betting on that. If they new release doesn't see at least new Clanrats and Slaves, I don't know what I'll do. Maybe buy all old Jes Goodwin metals?
They will get new plastics, which will possibly be one piece, which will hopefully rock.
I would donate money to GW to get someone like Jes Goodwin to do them, or at least try to obscure the tails and integrate them on the bodies. I also hope they're super gangly and ugly looking.
For those with Warriors; how do you paint your... Warriors? God-specific? Generic for in-game flexibility? I generally like settling on these things (and have never considered a mixed-god army before) but it feels like I'd be missing out on lots of gameplay.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
For those with Warriors; how do you paint your... Warriors? God-specific? Generic for in-game flexibility? I generally like settling on these things (and have never considered a mixed-god army before) but it feels like I'd be missing out on lots of gameplay.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
You could make magnetized god specific banners perhaps?
For those with Warriors; how do you paint your... Warriors? God-specific? Generic for in-game flexibility? I generally like settling on these things (and have never considered a mixed-god army before) but it feels like I'd be missing out on lots of gameplay.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
You could make magnetized god specific banners perhaps?
Buy the banner bitz from the new Chaos Marines; it'd be perfect for this.
For those with Warriors; how do you paint your... Warriors? God-specific? Generic for in-game flexibility? I generally like settling on these things (and have never considered a mixed-god army before) but it feels like I'd be missing out on lots of gameplay.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
You could make magnetized god specific banners perhaps?
Buy the banner bitz from the new Chaos Marines; it'd be perfect for this.
I've gotten really into magentizing lately; I just did Karl-Franz' weapons, no less. This wouldn't be tough to do at all. Combine with a few specifically-colored Warriors to sprinkle in and I see this working pretty well.
For those with Warriors; how do you paint your... Warriors? God-specific? Generic for in-game flexibility? I generally like settling on these things (and have never considered a mixed-god army before) but it feels like I'd be missing out on lots of gameplay.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
The number of times I've preached against mixed Chaos makes me feel dirty about considering otherwise. It would be a departure but I find the concept interesting (and tactically appealing).
I've gone even more tiny and compact. The idea here is that Knight unit 1 (with the Blasted Standard and Lord) will be out front and rush forward to punch through whatever I can. The Nurgle contingent (no doubt under the sway of the cunning Tzeentchian lord) is the follow up, again trying to engage and utterly break a unit or two as fast as possible. This will be supported by the marauder horse, dogs, and spawn. Finally, the Tzeentch sorc with the second Knights (with the Wrath banner) will threaten and shoot away, playing the final oblique line blow once I've torn holes in the rest of the army.
And the mark of Tzeentch on the Lord is primarily for fluff. Or I could throw the Armor of Morrslieb on him to get a sweet 3+ ward save (though as an offensive unit, I'm more worried about crazy magic items).
My bro and I upgraded from the simplified rules and started using all the rulebook rules minus codex stuff like Animosity, etc (since we're still not technically playing point-limit matches, we're just trying to grasp the rules).
It was pretty fun, and pretty quick. We only ran across a few rulings that we wanted to ask about here. And so, here they are:
When you assault a unit from the rear, how do you resolve those? I had a unit of spider riders charge his miners, and we weren't sure if the models immediately turn around with the command group moving to the front, or what. Also, the Combat Resolution bonus points from rear flanking: are they only rewarded for the first turn that you charged the rear, or do they continue to be rewarded?
Are musicians and standard bearers still equipped like the rest of the squad? We assumed yes, but you know what happens when you assume.
Rear assaults (:winky:) follow all the normal combat rules, but grant +2 CR (if they're unit strength five or more) and negate all rank bonuses to CR for the rest of the combat. You have two options for changing facing/moving within units; characters and champions may move during their next move phase to wherever they'd like, or (see: the respective sections in the rulebook); if the unit wins, it may execute a free turn and change the facing of the front rank (see: very last section of the Close Combat chapter). Note that this doesn't regain the rank bonus or eliminate the +2 CR.
Musicians and Standards are equipped as the unit. I'm pretty sure this is described in the section about them (something about being "exceptional members of the unit" who can handle a pole and still fight).
Actually, if you turn to face after winning a round of combat then you do regain your rank bonus and the attacker loses the rear/flank bonus. As soon as your unit turns, the musician, standard bearer, and champion will move to the back.
Actually, if you turn to face after winning a round of combat then you do regain your rank bonus and the attacker loses the rear/flank bonus. As soon as your unit turns, the musician, standard bearer, and champion will move to the back.
...
Is this new to 7th or have I just been playing wrong in three different countries for half my life?
I'll try and cite my rulebook later if no one else backs me up, but once you've performed the turn maneuver your "front" has been moved to the battle line. The rank bonus is counted before combat, and if you have no enemies over US5 in your rear or flank then you get your rank bonus back. This has its drawbacks though, as you have now moved your rear and are opening yourself up to another rear charge.
*edit* Ok, here goes my interpretation. Page 80 under "Position Within Unit" defines that the champ, std bearer, and mus are always in the "front" rank. Page 46 under "Free Maneuvers" says that you may execute a free turn maneuver after winning combat with a unit in your rear or flank. This allows characters, champions, standard bearers, and musicians to move into contact with the enemy. Thus, by page 80, you have moved your front rank to be in contact with the enemy.
I worked almost 10 hours today. A lot of that day was spent re-looking through the Skaven army book, and thinking of all the possibilities... it really is a tragedy that Rat Ogres aren't any better.
I'm probably going to buy one or two blisters of Skaven stuff in January to try my hand at painting the little bastards. I'm thinking gutter runners, and either a warlord or a gray seer. Hmm.
Thanks Eternal; I swear I remember a "frontage changes don't counter the losses and benefits from a flank or rear charge" line. I might be thinking of previous editions, though. I looked as well and don't see anything.
SJ: 4th/5th melee skaven armies with tons of awesome Moulder stuff (S/T 5 Rat Ogres!) and useful Stormvermin were the shit. I miss them so much.
Just avoid buying any of the plastics right now, if you can.
I'll freely admit I don't have a bunch of experience with WHFB but that really looks like too many hammers, not enough anvils. Maybe drop a unit of Knights for a unit or two of Marauders? Magic Missiles, Handgunners, crossbowmen, and enfilading bolt throwers are going to mess you up something fierce if you don't turn the game into a rout real fast, as small as most of those units are.
I'll freely admit I don't have a bunch of experience with WHFB but that really looks like too many hammers, not enough anvils. Maybe drop a unit of Knights for a unit or two of Marauders? Magic Missiles, Handgunners, crossbowmen, and enfilading bolt throwers are going to mess you up something fierce if you don't turn the game into a rout real fast, as small as most of those units are.
That's a fair concern; I'm probably skewing so far because it's the opposite of skaven and Empire that I've played in the last few years, both of which operate like anvils being slowly ground down on heads. I want lots of tiny, hard-hitting units. I'm avoiding Marauders on foot on purpose.
Also the first Knight unit has 1+ armor saves with 4+ wards against shooting and will be in front. They're built to absorb a round of shooting or two.
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Yeah, VC are Tomb Kings a pretty cool. So is Empire, argh..
So, what would you guys recommend as an army? I like shooting. I'm not going to make a gunline army or something, but, I would enjoy a shooting phase that actually impacts the game. Ranged war machines would be a nice plus.
I'd probably prefer a more defensive, sturdy army. Something that could take a charge.
I think the way magic is done is Warhammer is pretty cool, so I wouldn't mind having a magic phase of sorts, but it's not hyper essential.
PiptheFair was absolutely correct in prescribing you the Dwarf pill, but allow me to perhaps weigh in before you run to the pharmacy to begin your addiction.
However, in all honesty Empire also works. Dwarf Warriors can take a charge pretty well, but not as well as a large unit of Empire Pikemen with Halberdier and Handgunner attachments. They sit there and get hit in the front (because the attachments make it neigh impossible to hit the flanks), get to make a Stand & Shoot reaction because of the handgunner attachment (as long as it doesn't move), use the Halberdiers to make a counter-charge with the Halberdiers (who are Str 4 and negate ranks), and then get to make 15 attacks minus casualties. On top of that, you get to have a magic phase, good movement, and cavalry.
Now, if you are okay with not being too competitive, Dwarfs can consistently win and be pretty fun but they get pretty fucking predictable. But if you get imaginative with the army book, you're going to have lots of fun. Empire is endlessly customizable and honestly if it weren't for the fact I'd spend assloads of money trying to get into that army I'd probably play them.
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Empire is a lot of fun; they really can mimic just about any play style out there, to a lesser degree (and excel at more than a few). Plus, they have awesome outfits.
I'll freely admit I don't have a bunch of experience with WHFB but that really looks like too many hammers, not enough anvils. Maybe drop a unit of Knights for a unit or two of Marauders? Magic Missiles, Handgunners, crossbowmen, and enfilading bolt throwers are going to mess you up something fierce if you don't turn the game into a rout real fast, as small as most of those units are.
That's a fair concern; I'm probably skewing so far because it's the opposite of skaven and Empire that I've played in the last few years, both of which operate like anvils being slowly ground down on heads. I want lots of tiny, hard-hitting units. I'm avoiding Marauders on foot on purpose.
Also the first Knight unit has 1+ armor saves with 4+ wards against shooting and will be in front. They're built to absorb a round of shooting or two.
Here's a random question mostly unrelated to this post; how do "wards against shooting" work against Breath Weapons?
Edit: Also, are Ogres Large Targets, and do Hounds cause panic tests?
I'll freely admit I don't have a bunch of experience with WHFB but that really looks like too many hammers, not enough anvils. Maybe drop a unit of Knights for a unit or two of Marauders? Magic Missiles, Handgunners, crossbowmen, and enfilading bolt throwers are going to mess you up something fierce if you don't turn the game into a rout real fast, as small as most of those units are.
That's a fair concern; I'm probably skewing so far because it's the opposite of skaven and Empire that I've played in the last few years, both of which operate like anvils being slowly ground down on heads. I want lots of tiny, hard-hitting units. I'm avoiding Marauders on foot on purpose.
Also the first Knight unit has 1+ armor saves with 4+ wards against shooting and will be in front. They're built to absorb a round of shooting or two.
Here's a random question mostly unrelated to this post; how do "wards against shooting" work against Breath Weapons?
Edit: Also, are Ogres Large Targets, and do Hounds cause panic tests?
The Blasted Standard specifically works against "all attacks made in the Shooting phase" which includes breath weapons. Most ward saves will work against any attack.
Ogres are not large targets and hounds can cause panic tests in some scenarios (such as when flanking an engaged unit), though do not do so inherently.
Sorry, think the hounds question was unclear. When a hound unit breaks, does it trigger Panic tests from friendly units like normal? Or is it treated like Orcs & Goblins, where no one cares that the dogs ran away?
Sorry, think the hounds question was unclear. When a hound unit breaks, does it trigger Panic tests from friendly units like normal? Or is it treated like Orcs & Goblins, where no one cares that the dogs ran away?
Teh fact that they are dogs has no matter on the situation, unless they have it as rule saying otherwise, units they run through panic
Sorry, think the hounds question was unclear. When a hound unit breaks, does it trigger Panic tests from friendly units like normal? Or is it treated like Orcs & Goblins, where no one cares that the dogs ran away?
Teh fact that they are dogs has no matter on the situation, unless they have it as rule saying otherwise, units they run through panic
Yes thank you what I was asking is whether or not they had that rule, as Goblins do
Sorry, think the hounds question was unclear. When a hound unit breaks, does it trigger Panic tests from friendly units like normal? Or is it treated like Orcs & Goblins, where no one cares that the dogs ran away?
Teh fact that they are dogs has no matter on the situation, unless they have it as rule saying otherwise, units they run through panic
Yes thank you what I was asking is whether or not they had that rule, as Goblins do
No, that's an orc special rule. The only army with anything similar is ogres/gnoblars.
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http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/fb-armies/
O&G have decent war machines, but their infantry's shooting won't be winning any awards.
It's an odd choice if your reaction is apparently to stand and shoot (which is what it looks like he did). He could have easily fled, rallied and cast next turn.
I would donate money to GW to get someone like Jes Goodwin to do them, or at least try to obscure the tails and integrate them on the bodies. I also hope they're super gangly and ugly looking.
I loved playing them in Mordheim.
I might paint them all somewhat generic, with half of each box clearly god-specific (and extra banners). If I can get the generic and god-specific ones to blend well, that should give me flexibility in marks with still a bit of character.
You could make magnetized god specific banners perhaps?
Buy the banner bitz from the new Chaos Marines; it'd be perfect for this.
I've gotten really into magentizing lately; I just did Karl-Franz' weapons, no less. This wouldn't be tough to do at all. Combine with a few specifically-colored Warriors to sprinkle in and I see this working pretty well.
Thanks.
I'm all over warhammer's internet right now.
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/hordesofchaos/painting/4colors/gallery.htm
Very cool gallery. Second row down & last one on the right would fit any god.
Goddamn you Games Workshop.
I'm inclined to wait on those and chariots 'cause we're likely to see plastic kits as Chaos wave 2.
Nurgle loves all the poor and downtrodden. He just want to help them strike back against the man. With diseases. Lovely diseases.
Where's the Tzeentch sign up sheet?
Revision 2:
Total 2243
Pts Qty Unit Notes
348 18 Warriors Cmd, Shields, Nurgle
30 5 Hounds
30 5 Hounds
71 5 Maraud Horse Mus
335 5 Knights Cmd, Lances, Blasted Std, Tzeentch
315 5 Knights Cmd, Banner Wrath, Tzeentch
260 4 Ogres Greatweapons, Chaos Armor, Nurgle, Mutant
110 2 Spawn
175 1 Sorcerer Infernal Puppet, Tzeentch
190 1 Sorcerer Black Tongue, Nurgle
379 1 Lord Steed, Runeshield, Runesword, Tzeentch, D Splendor
I've gone even more tiny and compact. The idea here is that Knight unit 1 (with the Blasted Standard and Lord) will be out front and rush forward to punch through whatever I can. The Nurgle contingent (no doubt under the sway of the cunning Tzeentchian lord) is the follow up, again trying to engage and utterly break a unit or two as fast as possible. This will be supported by the marauder horse, dogs, and spawn. Finally, the Tzeentch sorc with the second Knights (with the Wrath banner) will threaten and shoot away, playing the final oblique line blow once I've torn holes in the rest of the army.
And the mark of Tzeentch on the Lord is primarily for fluff. Or I could throw the Armor of Morrslieb on him to get a sweet 3+ ward save (though as an offensive unit, I'm more worried about crazy magic items).
My bro and I upgraded from the simplified rules and started using all the rulebook rules minus codex stuff like Animosity, etc (since we're still not technically playing point-limit matches, we're just trying to grasp the rules).
It was pretty fun, and pretty quick. We only ran across a few rulings that we wanted to ask about here. And so, here they are:
When you assault a unit from the rear, how do you resolve those? I had a unit of spider riders charge his miners, and we weren't sure if the models immediately turn around with the command group moving to the front, or what. Also, the Combat Resolution bonus points from rear flanking: are they only rewarded for the first turn that you charged the rear, or do they continue to be rewarded?
Are musicians and standard bearers still equipped like the rest of the squad? We assumed yes, but you know what happens when you assume.
Sorry to keep bothering!
Musicians and Standards are equipped as the unit. I'm pretty sure this is described in the section about them (something about being "exceptional members of the unit" who can handle a pole and still fight).
...
Is this new to 7th or have I just been playing wrong in three different countries for half my life?
*edit* Ok, here goes my interpretation. Page 80 under "Position Within Unit" defines that the champ, std bearer, and mus are always in the "front" rank. Page 46 under "Free Maneuvers" says that you may execute a free turn maneuver after winning combat with a unit in your rear or flank. This allows characters, champions, standard bearers, and musicians to move into contact with the enemy. Thus, by page 80, you have moved your front rank to be in contact with the enemy.
I'm probably going to buy one or two blisters of Skaven stuff in January to try my hand at painting the little bastards. I'm thinking gutter runners, and either a warlord or a gray seer. Hmm.
SJ: 4th/5th melee skaven armies with tons of awesome Moulder stuff (S/T 5 Rat Ogres!) and useful Stormvermin were the shit. I miss them so much.
Just avoid buying any of the plastics right now, if you can.
That's a fair concern; I'm probably skewing so far because it's the opposite of skaven and Empire that I've played in the last few years, both of which operate like anvils being slowly ground down on heads. I want lots of tiny, hard-hitting units. I'm avoiding Marauders on foot on purpose.
Also the first Knight unit has 1+ armor saves with 4+ wards against shooting and will be in front. They're built to absorb a round of shooting or two.
PiptheFair was absolutely correct in prescribing you the Dwarf pill, but allow me to perhaps weigh in before you run to the pharmacy to begin your addiction.
However, in all honesty Empire also works. Dwarf Warriors can take a charge pretty well, but not as well as a large unit of Empire Pikemen with Halberdier and Handgunner attachments. They sit there and get hit in the front (because the attachments make it neigh impossible to hit the flanks), get to make a Stand & Shoot reaction because of the handgunner attachment (as long as it doesn't move), use the Halberdiers to make a counter-charge with the Halberdiers (who are Str 4 and negate ranks), and then get to make 15 attacks minus casualties. On top of that, you get to have a magic phase, good movement, and cavalry.
Now, if you are okay with not being too competitive, Dwarfs can consistently win and be pretty fun but they get pretty fucking predictable. But if you get imaginative with the army book, you're going to have lots of fun. Empire is endlessly customizable and honestly if it weren't for the fact I'd spend assloads of money trying to get into that army I'd probably play them.
Here's a random question mostly unrelated to this post; how do "wards against shooting" work against Breath Weapons?
Edit: Also, are Ogres Large Targets, and do Hounds cause panic tests?
The Blasted Standard specifically works against "all attacks made in the Shooting phase" which includes breath weapons. Most ward saves will work against any attack.
Ogres are not large targets and hounds can cause panic tests in some scenarios (such as when flanking an engaged unit), though do not do so inherently.
Yes thank you what I was asking is whether or not they had that rule, as Goblins do
No, that's an orc special rule. The only army with anything similar is ogres/gnoblars.