Unlicensed anime

aeolist · March 2005

The forum rules wrote:

TV episodes, anime fansubs, and similar are questionable and will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

I'd like to know the current status of this subject. I've been personally posting links to downloads of unlicensed anime for a long time now under the assumption that it was OK. As I recall we used ot have a rule saying that doing so for TV shows that aren't out on DVD yet is OK, but since it's not there anymore I'll assume that this huge grey area is all we have left. I've also been told by mods before that it's OK.

If a straight answer one way or another is not possible, I'd like to know exactly how this is being judged and dealt with. What are the conditions under which it is OK to post something like that, and what are the conditions under which it isn't? Either way I think the rules should be updated to say exactly what is OK and what isn't, and under what circumstances.

I don't want to resurrect a dead subject but this is the entire reason I was arguing over this particular subject. I feel the rules on this are vague and encourage selective enforcement by our mods, and this is obviously not a good thing. More personally I don't want to wake up one day to find that something I've been doing in front of mods without consequence has suddenly become a jailable or bannable offense, as happened last time. The punishment was very light for the previous occurrence so I wasn't really directly mad at that, but the possibility of a recurrence with a more severe punishment made me argue the point.

So what I'm trying to do here is head something like that off before it becomes an issue.

Hamurabi · March 2005

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

BaronVonSnakPak · March 2005

i just want champloo and naruto and bleach. though naruto has been picked up and is heading to cn in the fall, i dont know of the other two.

aeolist · March 2005

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Hamurabi · March 2005

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

Imran · March 2005

Hamurabi wrote:

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

Technically, yes.

But so is importing games, if you want to be picky.

aeolist · March 2005

Hamurabi wrote:

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

http://animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/

Nfinit Vylence · March 2005

So, if you can link to unliscensed anime, would it be kosher to then link to The Underdogs?

Munkus Beaver · March 2005

Imran wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

Technically, yes.

But so is importing games, if you want to be picky.

Explain how importing a game can be illegal.

Downloading unlicensed anime is illegal, but people tend to look the other way because they aren't getting any profit. Once the licencing happens, people care.

Imran · March 2005

Munkus Beaver wrote:

Imran wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

Technically, yes.

But so is importing games, if you want to be picky.

Explain how importing a game can be illegal.

Downloading unlicensed anime is illegal, but people tend to look the other way because they aren't getting any profit. Once the licencing happens, people care.

US Customs is free to destroy any game you import in to the United States for whatever reasons they desire. They just don't.

Paladin · March 2005

Do it in another forum. End of story.

Munkus Beaver · March 2005

Imran wrote:

Munkus Beaver wrote:

Imran wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

aeolist wrote:

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

The problem is that it's still technically illegal if it's unlicensed.

Of course, the only people who could bring charges are the Japanese companies involved in making the anime, and they don't really give two shits. Moreover, they've discovered that fansubs are basically free publicity and can actually help DVD sales a lot once their anime reaches America, so generally speaking they're OK with it.

Which, of course, doesn't really change the fact that it's against the law. But it does make the issue one big mess of a grey area.

Wait, so even unlicensed anime is still illegal to download here in the States?

Technically, yes.

But so is importing games, if you want to be picky.

Explain how importing a game can be illegal.

Downloading unlicensed anime is illegal, but people tend to look the other way because they aren't getting any profit. Once the licencing happens, people care.

US Customs is free to destroy any game you import in to the United States for whatever reasons they desire. They just don't.

On what grounds?

I think you're confused. They charge for importing certain goods into the country, and the prohibit certain food and drugs substances, but they don't destroy random software all willy nilly.

korodullin · March 2005

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:

i just want champloo and naruto and bleach. though naruto has been picked up and is heading to cn in the fall, i dont know of the other two.

Champloo was licensed before it even went on the air.

Jasconius · March 2005

Paladin wrote:

Do it in another forum. End of story.

I only had to click on one of those threads to realize that THAT forum is the pit of stupidity.

Pheezer · March 2005

Hamurabi wrote:

I'm guessing that as long as it hasn't been licensed, which would make it technically legal by US law, it should be alright to link to.

It's fucking illegal either way, it's just that if it's unlicensed a blind eye is generally turned and for anything to happen it has to be the result of active enforcement.

If a straight answer one way or another is not possible, I'd like to know exactly how this is being judged and dealt with. What are the conditions under which it is OK to post something like that, and what are the conditions under which it isn't? Either way I think the rules should be updated to say exactly what is OK and what isn't, and under what circumstances.

The rules are fucking vague for a reason. This IS dealt with case-by-case and if you don't like that go away. If you're unsure, PM a mod each time. If that's too much hassle, just find something else to post about.

The rule's fine and it isn't changing and there isn't going to be a strict, specific policy enforced because that would be retarded and it wouldn't work.

aeolist · March 2005

Why exactly does it need to be vague and why wouldn't a strict "yes or no" work?

Henroid · March 2005

In the chat thread aeolist wrote:

As far as I can see the only reason to have it vague like this is so that mods can use it as an excuse to jail or ban someone, and I don't like that conclusion. I also don't want to think that they'd do something like that.

I would think you are safe from such an "exploitation" in rule enforcement so long as you don't act like a fuck-jack.

Really, I don't see any cause for concern. I've never seen anyone have this rule enforced upon them, even when breaking it on the licensed side of it, because they fix up their post when others remind them. The forumers are quite capable of self-policing themselves, in a way.

Blutnerd · March 2005

aeolist wrote:

Why exactly does it need to be vague and why wouldn't a strict "yes or no" work?

I would guess so that there is some room to bend the rules if there is special circumstances. I assume that the general rule is no, as this is not an anime or TV forum, but sometimes it's worth ignoring the questionable legality if it is of special interest to the forum in general.
I remember a good while back there was a long and interesting documentary that ran on some US channel about the history of videogames. At that time there was a thread with a torrent link in it for those who missed it. I'm guessing that this wasn't strictly legal, but since it was of special interest to the community, it was allowed. More recently there was a thread with a torrent for a special MST3K short where they riffed on some PSX commercial thingy. Again, not strictly legal, but interesting enough to be worth allowing it.
So if you have something that you think a good portion of the community would enjoy seeing, check it with a mod. And as a rule, the latest epsiode of Bleach or Lost would not fall under this and shouldn't even be considered. Most people here know how to use Google anyway.
That's my theory at least.

aeolist · March 2005

The fact that I could be jailed or banned for a post one day and not the next causes me some concern. It is my opinion that I should be able to know to a reasonable degree whether or not a post I am making is against the rules before the punishment descends from the heavens.

That does not mean a strict "unlicensed anime is allowed/not allowed" rule. Like I said, all I need to know is what guidelines the mods use to judge such situations. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

Conditional_Axe · March 2005

Henroid wrote:

In the chat thread aeolist wrote:

As far as I can see the only reason to have it vague like this is so that mods can use it as an excuse to jail or ban someone, and I don't like that conclusion. I also don't want to think that they'd do something like that.

I would think you are safe from such an "exploitation" in rule enforcement so long as you don't act like a fuck-jack.

this is a horribly subjective term.

Really, I don't see any cause for concern. I've never seen anyone have this rule enforced upon them, even when breaking it on the licensed side of it,

I've never seen people jailed for posting anime images or pictures of kittens before, either.

Ludious · March 2005

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

Henroid · March 2005

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

Ludious · March 2005

Henroid wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

It is technically reproducing a copyrighted image, is it not?

Pheezer · March 2005

aeolist wrote:

The fact that I could be jailed or banned for a post one day and not the next causes me some concern. It is my opinion that I should be able to know to a reasonable degree whether or not a post I am making is against the rules before the punishment descends from the heavens.

That does not mean a strict "unlicensed anime is allowed/not allowed" rule. Like I said, all I need to know is what guidelines the mods use to judge such situations. I don't think this is an unreasonable request.

Great, then either don't make those posts or PM a mod before you do.

Red Machine D · March 2005

Ludious wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

It is technically reproducing a copyrighted image, is it not?

If we're going to enforce one ban on copyrighted material, you might as well enforce them all.

Dely Apple · March 2005

You don't just automatically copyright something the moment you create it. You have to do a formal process with the government.

And the reason anime threads are horrifying black holes when you start letting unlicensed anime in is because 99% of the time those websites they come from also host illegal and currently licensed anime fansubs, or porn, or hentai, or something else -- And for some reason that constantly lets people think, "Hey! It's okay to show this 9 year old doing an octopus in this anime thread now!"

Pheezer · March 2005

Dely Apple wrote:

You don't just automatically copyright something the moment you create it. You have to do a formal process with the government.

Not too familiar with the Berne Convention, are you Dely?

Pheezer · March 2005

Red Machine D wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

It is technically reproducing a copyrighted image, is it not?

If we're going to enforce one ban on copyrighted material, you might as well enforce them all.

No, because that's fucking retarded.

Dely Apple · March 2005

pheezer FD wrote:

Dely Apple wrote:

You don't just automatically copyright something the moment you create it. You have to do a formal process with the government.

Not too familiar with the Berne Convention, are you Dely?

You're assuming the US is going to honor a treaty about the arts?

Henroid · March 2005

pheezer FD wrote:

Red Machine D wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

It is technically reproducing a copyrighted image, is it not?

If we're going to enforce one ban on copyrighted material, you might as well enforce them all.

No, because that's fucking retarded.

Seriously, you guys are being silly. The internet is too vast to slap copyrights all over, let alone ENFORCE it all.

Pheezer · March 2005

Dely Apple wrote:

pheezer FD wrote:

Dely Apple wrote:

You don't just automatically copyright something the moment you create it. You have to do a formal process with the government.

Not too familiar with the Berne Convention, are you Dely?

You're assuming the US is going to honor a treaty about the arts?

Right. So how about stepping out of the conversation if you're just going to spout disinformation and irrelevancies?

Aeolist: Stop being a fucking twat and cope. If you're terrified of what'll happen if you link to a download, don't make that post, or PM a mod if you really want to, in advance of making that post. If you don't like it, go to hell.

Dely Apple · March 2005

pheezer FD wrote:

Right. So how about stepping out of the conversation if you're just going to spout disinformation and irrelevancies?

I would, but someone copyrighted the outside world(C) and I will be sued if I use the outside world(C) without permission.

Henroid · March 2005

pheezer FD wrote:

If you're terrified of what'll happen if you link to a download, don't make that post, or PM a mod if you really want to, in advance of making that post.

Don't the rules say that if you're unsure about something, PM a mod? So if you're keen to the details aeolist, you'd know that.

The Muffin Man · March 2005

Ludious wrote:

Henroid wrote:

Ludious wrote:

Here's a dumb question from someone who has little grasp on liscensing and copyright laws.

Everytime we post a photograph in the forum (EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. OF. US. HAS.) isn't that photo MOST LIKELY copyrighted or liscensed in some fashion, and hence, it's just as bad to post that image as it would be to say, post a link to the underdogs?

I suppose Google should be sued then.

It is technically reproducing a copyrighted image, is it not?

Fair use.

aeolist · March 2005

I'm satisfied. Lock away if you desire.

Pheezer · March 2005

oh man that felt gooooooooood

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