Unfortunately most of the major abuses and corruption happen on the state level... I'm not sure how much sway the federal government is going to have over, for example, the California Correctional Peace Officer's Association.
Anyway, this is what I'd like to see, at least in California:
Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent crimes - particularly drug possession.
Increase funding for non-prison drug diversion (aka "Prop 36") and mental health treatment options for nonviolent offenders.
Repeal three strikes laws or amend them so the third strike must be a violent crime.
Decriminalize marijuana and prostitution.
A freeze on all pay raises for correctional officers.
A freeze on all new prison construction.
Increased funding for public defenders.
A serious committed investigation into the prevalence of plea bargaining and the racial injustices in the trial system.
Community outreach and youth programs to help at-risk kids stay out of trouble.
That's not an exhaustive list. We're really fucked here, and it's going to take a hard-ass of Eliot Ness proportions to drive the rats out of the prison system.
I agree with most of this, with one major exception: We have to be more selective than "nonviolent crimes" when it comes to eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and modifications to three strikes laws.
Because people can still do serious harm to another person without the use of violence. For instance, grand theft is not on the same level as smoking a joint.
My views on your other suggestions range from "wholeheartedly agree" to "iffy". Prostitution, for instance, is a tricky issue, from the standpoint of its consequences on the women who typically end up being the prostitutes. (Although practically speaking enforcement has been difficult and inconsistent.) But generally, I wouldn't be bothered if the rest of this list was implemented.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Funny that you used the f-word, because that's another one of my peeves: the prison industry being an actual industry. They have lobbyists working for harsher laws to keep the flow of inmates steady to keep business up.
I think it's a bit sad that people say prisoners shouldn't vote because their interests are biased when there are those who can directly influence the government who push to put more people in prison for longer sentences.
If prisoners could vote nationwide then maybe politicans would start giving a shit about prisoners, and why there's so goddamn many of them
I don't think giving prisoners the right to vote is really the best way of promoting prisoner welfare or fair sentencing laws. I don't think that nations with better criminal policies than ours got them that way.
If you want to have prisoners retain the right to vote you should really look to the other reasons for doing so.
Unfortunately most of the major abuses and corruption happen on the state level... I'm not sure how much sway the federal government is going to have over, for example, the California Correctional Peace Officer's Association.
Anyway, this is what I'd like to see, at least in California:
Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for nonviolent crimes - particularly drug possession.
Increase funding for non-prison drug diversion (aka "Prop 36") and mental health treatment options for nonviolent offenders.
Repeal three strikes laws or amend them so the third strike must be a violent crime.
Decriminalize marijuana and prostitution.
A freeze on all pay raises for correctional officers.
A freeze on all new prison construction.
Increased funding for public defenders.
A serious committed investigation into the prevalence of plea bargaining and the racial injustices in the trial system.
Community outreach and youth programs to help at-risk kids stay out of trouble.
That's not an exhaustive list. We're really fucked here, and it's going to take a hard-ass of Eliot Ness proportions to drive the rats out of the prison system.
I agree with most of this, with one major exception: We have to be more selective than "nonviolent crimes" when it comes to eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and modifications to three strikes laws.
Because people can still do serious harm to another person without the use of violence. For instance, grand theft is not on the same level as smoking a joint.
I'd like to see white collar crimes treated as worse than violent offenses, to a point, personally. Stealing someone's future is a lot worse than stealing their car.
I agree with most of this, with one major exception: We have to be more selective than "nonviolent crimes" when it comes to eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and modifications to three strikes laws.
Because people can still do serious harm to another person without the use of violence. For instance, grand theft is not on the same level as smoking a joint.
Yeah, you're right, and so is moniker. I sacrificed thoroughness for brevity.
Prostitution, for instance, is a tricky issue, from the standpoint of its consequences on the women who typically end up being the prostitutes. (Although practically speaking enforcement has been difficult and inconsistent.)
You'll get no argument from me. I've actually been one of the few opponents of total prostitution legalization on these boards before, due to the deleterious effects that prostitution usually (but, obviously, not always) has on the prostitute's mental health. There are devils in those details, and I would ultimately like to see a decriminalization + licensing system where practicing without a license is a misdemeanor for the prostitute and a felony for the pimp or madam, and very specific enforcement rules on licensed brothels.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Disenfranchisement should be reserved for traitors and traitors alone. Any citizen who has not directly tried to destroy the very foundations of this country should be allowed to vote. As soon as you start disenfranchising people, you start denying them other basic rights as well.
Like, for instance, the right of free association? Life and liberty, those things?
If we deny criminals the right to vote, next thing you know we'll be locking them in cages for years at a time.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Funny that you used the f-word, because that's another one of my peeves: the prison industry being an actual industry. They have lobbyists working for harsher laws to keep the flow of inmates steady to keep business up.
This is also what gets my blood up -- the privatization of incarceration. It doesn't take an economic genius to see where that leads. If you're a "prison services" provider, you have incentive to keep the demand for your services high, while restricting supply. (High demand + low supply = $TEXAS profit.) Which means, as you say, incentive to lobby for ridiculous things like mandatory minimum sentences for first-time drug offenders. But it goes further than that: if prisons are part of a supply/demand economy, does the prison have real incentive to rehabilitate prisoners? Not so much. Repeat customers are good for business. Does the prison have incentive to address issues like overcrowding? Not so much. It keeps costs low and profits high. In a private prison industry based on a supply-and-demand economy, we should expect high incarceration rates, overcrowding, and a high rate of recidivism, which is exactly what we get in the United States.
I know, I know -- the free market and efficiency and smaller government and all that. But for a prison system, it's fundamentally the wrong approach.
Disenfranchisement should be reserved for traitors and traitors alone. Any citizen who has not directly tried to destroy the very foundations of this country should be allowed to vote. As soon as you start disenfranchising people, you start denying them other basic rights as well.
Like, for instance, the right of free association? Life and liberty, those things?
If we deny criminals the right to vote, next thing you know we'll be locking them in cages for years at a time.
Some people seem to forget that the lack of voting rights is punitive. It's not meant to serve a purpose...it's not like any candidate is ever going to run on the "let them all out" platform (and win, even with the prisoner vote) and it would be theoretically possible to keep the guards out of it (using absentee ballots that aren't screened).
But the point is that it's a punishment, pure and simple...the Constitution allows it, so we do it. There's no reason to bother arguing that it serves no purpose (it doesn't).
I'm personally ambivalent regarding it, though I think once somebody's out (and particularly if they're no longer on probation/parole) they should absolutely get that right back. I'd actually like to see a Constitutional amendment to that effect.
Oh, and yeah the privatization of prisons is one of the worst ideas ever in the history of ever. Right up there with the privatization of war.
Most prisons are run by the state; so, are you guys talking about the nationalization of lock manufacturers?
Most may still be, but are you unaware of the disturbing trend towards allowing privately (and for-profit) run prisons?
Some things just shouldn't be run by private interests. Or we'll end up with a credit card slot on the fire hose when the firemen arrive.
Most prisons are run by the state; so, are you guys talking about the nationalization of lock manufacturers?
It's a huge industry. More importantly, it's an industry with a huge lobbying arm and apparently politicians can be bought for the corporate equivalent of pocket change.
It's a huge industry. More importantly, it's an industry with a huge lobbying arm and apparently politicians can be bought for the corporate equivalent of pocket change.
Random personal opinion: politicians are cheap to buy in this area because "TOUGH ON CRIME RAWR" is easy brownie points.
Most prisons are run by the state; so, are you guys talking about the nationalization of lock manufacturers?
Most may still be, but are you unaware of the disturbing trend towards allowing privately (and for-profit) run prisons?
According to a WSJ article from last month, currently 7.4% of the prison population is housed in for-profit prisons, and the number is growing. Sure, most are still in state or federally run institutions, but 7.4% (and growing) is a non-trivial number.
Oh, and yeah the privatization of prisons is one of the worst ideas ever in the history of ever. Right up there with the privatization of war.
If the economic downturn is anywhere close to as severe as is being predicted, some of these issues will shake out on their own. Our current swing toward dystopian fiction is an ironic side effect of state and federal officials having mad money to swing around. Once we get to the point where state officials are having to choose between delivering the services the voters are demanding or building another shiny prison, you'll start to see a blooming of enlightened mercy.
It's also easier for people to harden their hearts to criminals when everyone is doing well. Widespread economic pain has a way of lessening the mental barrier between "us" and "them."
Corporal punishment instead of jail time should be an option. 10 lashes or 10 days? You pick.
If an alternate punishment is optional by the convict it couldn't be considered cruel & unusual, am i rite?
I'm doing my part!
I wonder what the cost break-down between ankle bracelet monitoring and full incarceration is. If we weren't all cheering for ass rape, you could solve a lot of problems by putting your random check kiters and coke addicts on a restricted schedule of work, shopping for necessities and home.
Fun bonus, those folks still pay taxes, feed and house themselves, and don't get to play meet and greet with hardened criminals.
I agree with most of this, with one major exception: We have to be more selective than "nonviolent crimes" when it comes to eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and modifications to three strikes laws.
Because people can still do serious harm to another person without the use of violence. For instance, grand theft is not on the same level as smoking a joint.
Yeah, you're right, and so is moniker. I sacrificed thoroughness for brevity.
Prostitution, for instance, is a tricky issue, from the standpoint of its consequences on the women who typically end up being the prostitutes. (Although practically speaking enforcement has been difficult and inconsistent.)
You'll get no argument from me. I've actually been one of the few opponents of total prostitution legalization on these boards before, due to the deleterious effects that prostitution usually (but, obviously, not always) has on the prostitute's mental health. There are devils in those details, and I would ultimately like to see a decriminalization + licensing system where practicing without a license is a misdemeanor for the prostitute and a felony for the pimp or madam, and very specific enforcement rules on licensed brothels.
Guess we're basically in agreement then :^:
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Posts
I agree with most of this, with one major exception: We have to be more selective than "nonviolent crimes" when it comes to eliminating mandatory minimum sentences and modifications to three strikes laws.
Because people can still do serious harm to another person without the use of violence. For instance, grand theft is not on the same level as smoking a joint.
My views on your other suggestions range from "wholeheartedly agree" to "iffy". Prostitution, for instance, is a tricky issue, from the standpoint of its consequences on the women who typically end up being the prostitutes. (Although practically speaking enforcement has been difficult and inconsistent.) But generally, I wouldn't be bothered if the rest of this list was implemented.
I don't think giving prisoners the right to vote is really the best way of promoting prisoner welfare or fair sentencing laws. I don't think that nations with better criminal policies than ours got them that way.
If you want to have prisoners retain the right to vote you should really look to the other reasons for doing so.
Just throwing that out there.
I'd like to see white collar crimes treated as worse than violent offenses, to a point, personally. Stealing someone's future is a lot worse than stealing their car.
Yeah, you're right, and so is moniker. I sacrificed thoroughness for brevity.
You'll get no argument from me. I've actually been one of the few opponents of total prostitution legalization on these boards before, due to the deleterious effects that prostitution usually (but, obviously, not always) has on the prostitute's mental health. There are devils in those details, and I would ultimately like to see a decriminalization + licensing system where practicing without a license is a misdemeanor for the prostitute and a felony for the pimp or madam, and very specific enforcement rules on licensed brothels.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Like, for instance, the right of free association? Life and liberty, those things?
If we deny criminals the right to vote, next thing you know we'll be locking them in cages for years at a time.
I know, I know -- the free market and efficiency and smaller government and all that. But for a prison system, it's fundamentally the wrong approach.
Most prisons are run by the state; so, are you guys talking about the nationalization of lock manufacturers?
Some people seem to forget that the lack of voting rights is punitive. It's not meant to serve a purpose...it's not like any candidate is ever going to run on the "let them all out" platform (and win, even with the prisoner vote) and it would be theoretically possible to keep the guards out of it (using absentee ballots that aren't screened).
But the point is that it's a punishment, pure and simple...the Constitution allows it, so we do it. There's no reason to bother arguing that it serves no purpose (it doesn't).
I'm personally ambivalent regarding it, though I think once somebody's out (and particularly if they're no longer on probation/parole) they should absolutely get that right back. I'd actually like to see a Constitutional amendment to that effect.
Oh, and yeah the privatization of prisons is one of the worst ideas ever in the history of ever. Right up there with the privatization of war.
Most may still be, but are you unaware of the disturbing trend towards allowing privately (and for-profit) run prisons?
It's a huge industry. More importantly, it's an industry with a huge lobbying arm and apparently politicians can be bought for the corporate equivalent of pocket change.
Random personal opinion: politicians are cheap to buy in this area because "TOUGH ON CRIME RAWR" is easy brownie points.
According to a WSJ article from last month, currently 7.4% of the prison population is housed in for-profit prisons, and the number is growing. Sure, most are still in state or federally run institutions, but 7.4% (and growing) is a non-trivial number.
If an alternate punishment is optional by the convict it couldn't be considered cruel & unusual, am i rite?
If the economic downturn is anywhere close to as severe as is being predicted, some of these issues will shake out on their own. Our current swing toward dystopian fiction is an ironic side effect of state and federal officials having mad money to swing around. Once we get to the point where state officials are having to choose between delivering the services the voters are demanding or building another shiny prison, you'll start to see a blooming of enlightened mercy.
It's also easier for people to harden their hearts to criminals when everyone is doing well. Widespread economic pain has a way of lessening the mental barrier between "us" and "them."
I wonder what the cost break-down between ankle bracelet monitoring and full incarceration is. If we weren't all cheering for ass rape, you could solve a lot of problems by putting your random check kiters and coke addicts on a restricted schedule of work, shopping for necessities and home.
Fun bonus, those folks still pay taxes, feed and house themselves, and don't get to play meet and greet with hardened criminals.
Guess we're basically in agreement then :^: