Serial, how often do you go to other pairings? Everytime I get to a quest where I have to fight conyellow mobs, I go to a new pairing. The exp will be faster and easier to get, even though I could kill the yellows. And when I go to a new pairing, I don't just go to a chapter or two before the one I am at. I start at the beginning of tier two, so what chapter 5 or so, and do -everything- up to where I am. This has not failed me, or a ton of other people who agree to it on WHA.
Edit- And also, how is bolster lacking? My 32 magus and DoK always held their own, even at the bottom of tiers. The only time my Magus was having problems is when he got to t4 and I had to learn to save my root to stop lions from fetching me.
That was embarrassing? Your team only losing by 6 points when they had that huge level advantage on you? Really?
Note I said "match afterwards." As in that was the scoreboard about 1 minute into the next scenario that popped. It was Gates of Ekrund. I rushed the gate switch, started capping it, and was promptly gang raped by orcs and witch elves without a teammate in sight. I checked the score board, saw the level spread, and left as soon as I respawned. That "only losing by six points" was basically each side capturing their own objective, and three of us getting killed. Notice how destro doesn't even have any deaths?
Serial, how often do you go to other pairings? Everytime I get to a quest where I have to fight conyellow mobs, I go to a new pairing. The exp will be faster and easier to get, even though I could kill the yellows. And when I go to a new pairing, I don't just go to a chapter or two before the one I am at. I start at the beginning of tier two, so what chapter 5 or so, and do -everything- up to where I am. This has not failed me, or a ton of other people who agree to it on WHA.
It's not an issue of failing or whether or not it works at all, it's an issue of whether or not it feels rewarding, worth the time, or fun. And to me, it is an abject failure in that regard. The equipment is usually garbage, the experience rewards are tiny, and the quests are - true to MMO form - mind-numbingly boring.
When my SH was getting near the end of T3, I had completed chapter 13-14 in all three pairings, plus chapter 10-12 in two of them, and was still level 28.
Clearly you and I have a completely different idea of what's acceptable. If you're at the end of T2, going all the way back to the beginning of T2 in a different pairing, you're going to be fighting mobs so low they don't give experience, and quest rewards that are about 1/4-1/2 what you'd get for a quest your own level. That doesn't bother you?
Edit- And also, how is bolster lacking? My 32 magus and DoK always held their own, even at the bottom of tiers. The only time my Magus was having problems is when he got to t4 and I had to learn to save my root to stop lions from fetching me.
But what does "held their own" mean? Were you competitive with higher-level characters in damage output? Survivability? Versatility? Were you getting as many kills?
All bolster does is add a few HP to your character. Higher-level characters have superior stats, superior skills, more skills, and better equipment, plus an inherent damage modifier against lower-level characters.
Honestly, I'm kind of stunned that anyone can think that bolster is anything but awful and inept.
Is it just me or is the PvE grind in this game the shittiest, most unfun PvE experience in any MMO ever?
I've played like every MMO and I want to get into WAR but I get bored and logout whenever I start trying to level. Back and fucking forth on these generic ass quests for shite exp. Fuuuck I just want to be level 40 so I can PvP all the time.
Yeah, man. I don't knwo what magic MMOs you played before where questing was different, but pretty much the only quests there are in MMOs are generic quests. Go here and kill this. Go there and deliver this message. In WAR you actually get nice writing rather than WoWs struggling attempts to joke on pop culture and horrible generic "Lawls dare be bears i want dare skins."
I think a large part of the difference is that in WoW, you got more experience per quest. Particularly at the mid levels. You could level off 20 or 30 quests, and there were always quests to do. Here, you get anywhere from 0.5% to maybe 2% of your next level's experience for quests.
I'm not going to say WoW has better quests or whatnot... I don't really enjoy any vanilla PvE in WAR or WoW. But in WoW, I could hit a quest hub, do the quests, come back, get a significant chunk of the experience I needed for a level, get another round of quests, etc. I'd usually level out of an area before I ran out of quests. Especially if you did the dungeon quests.
In WAR, it's kind of like you hit a quest hub, you run out, you do the quests, you come back, turn them in, get less than 10-15% of your level, and then get sent on to the next quest hub where everything is 3 levels higher.
I think some of it has to do with experience scaling, too. In WAR, you get absolutely laughable experience for killing a mob under your level. It drops off almost exponentially. So you run out of quests, have to go to another pairing, and do their lower-level stuff, but the experience you're getting per mob just because stuff is a level or two under you amounts to like 0.008% of a level per kill.
Huge parts of problems with the bolster mechanic sucking so, so badly, as well as PvE being so sparse and unenjoyable might be alleviated if they turned down their damned level modifiers so that level X vs. level X+2 wasn't such a huge deal.
EDIT: Note, I'm probably unusually grumpy because I just suffered the most embarrassing scenario loss I've ever had. Half of our team was level 5 or under, and we had 4 runepriests, 3 archmages, one WP, and one IB. And a few engineers. Meanwhile, they had 4 level 11 blorcs.
Yeah... that wasn't fun.
EDIT: When the match afterwards looks like this, it's time to just leave the scenario and stop getting in the queue for a while.
I'm totally in that game! I'm one of the 4 runepriests, Inien. Still trying to get the hang of the game. Sorry for the crappy game...
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I'm totally in that game! I'm one of the 4 runepriests, Inien. Still trying to get the hang of the game. Sorry for the crappy game...
It's not like it's really anyone's fault. Being lower level isn't a problem per se, but too many lower-level characters at once will tank a team like nothing else, and that's what was happening all morning.
Serial, how often do you go to other pairings? Everytime I get to a quest where I have to fight conyellow mobs, I go to a new pairing. The exp will be faster and easier to get, even though I could kill the yellows. And when I go to a new pairing, I don't just go to a chapter or two before the one I am at. I start at the beginning of tier two, so what chapter 5 or so, and do -everything- up to where I am. This has not failed me, or a ton of other people who agree to it on WHA.
Edit- And also, how is bolster lacking? My 32 magus and DoK always held their own, even at the bottom of tiers. The only time my Magus was having problems is when he got to t4 and I had to learn to save my root to stop lions from fetching me.
how was your 32 DoK not getting insta gibbed in T4? Even at 36 I was getting killed so damn fast by 40's.
Is it just me or is the PvE grind in this game the shittiest, most unfun PvE experience in any MMO ever?
I've played like every MMO and I want to get into WAR but I get bored and logout whenever I start trying to level. Back and fucking forth on these generic ass quests for shite exp. Fuuuck I just want to be level 40 so I can PvP all the time.
dude fighttest you aren't playing the game right, get the WoW fucking mentality out of your brain because it's flawed and lame.
This was not, I repeat was not meant to grind to 40 to be able to play PvP
This isn't gay WoW, you can PvP the second you get into the game and do it well.
Quests are meant to be doable for people while they travel through open RvR and wait for scenerios, AND I only do the quests that are travel/epic/good experience or items.
Stop thinking this is WoW cause it's far from it, stop feeling obligated to pick up every quest imaginable and finishin them "just cause".
One of the big problems with questing in WAR is the multiple tier approach. There are 3 completely distinct PvE progressions from 1-40, which would be great if each race could just do their own area and reach level cap, but instead Mythic decided to copy WoW's grind length and so every character has to do every zone from tier 2 and on to keep leveling. But instead of WoW's nice zone progression, you have 3 zones that each cover the same 10 levels so you can't finish one from start to finish, you're constantly switching back and forth scrounging for every last quest just so you don't have to fight +3 mobs. It's a pretty crappy setup.
I wish an MMO dev would just suck it up and let the level grind be fast for real(as opposed to "well, it's not EQ" fast). Why can't my Blorc just do all the Greenskin quests and hit 40? With how fast that was I'll gladly do it again in brand new zones with Chaos and Dark Elf alts. Hardcore players spend all their time in the endgame anyway, it makes no real difference to them.
Is it just me or is the PvE grind in this game the shittiest, most unfun PvE experience in any MMO ever?
I've played like every MMO and I want to get into WAR but I get bored and logout whenever I start trying to level. Back and fucking forth on these generic ass quests for shite exp. Fuuuck I just want to be level 40 so I can PvP all the time.
dude fighttest you aren't playing the game right, get the WoW fucking mentality out of your brain because it's flawed and lame.
This was not, I repeat was not meant to grind to 40 to be able to play PvP
This isn't gay WoW, you can PvP the second you get into the game and do it well.
Quests are meant to be doable for people while they travel through open RvR and wait for scenerios, AND I only do the quests that are travel/epic/good experience or items.
Stop thinking this is WoW cause it's far from it, stop feeling obligated to pick up every quest imaginable and finishin them "just cause".
Questing and Open RvR are mutually exclusive, and nonstop questing is still the fastest exp there is. Open RvR would be a lot more fun if everybody were doing that instead of questing for maximum exp. WAR still falls far short of being a real PvP MMO from 1-40.
One of the big problems with questing in WAR is the multiple tier approach. There are 3 completely distinct PvE progressions from 1-40, which would be great if each race could just do their own area and reach level cap, but instead Mythic decided to copy WoW's grind length and so every character has to do every zone from tier 2 and on to keep leveling. But instead of WoW's nice zone progression, you have 3 zones that each cover the same 10 levels so you can't finish one from start to finish, you're constantly switching back and forth scrounging for every last quest just so you don't have to fight +3 mobs. It's a pretty crappy setup.
I wish an MMO dev would just suck it up and let the level grind be fast for real(as opposed to "well, it's not EQ" fast). Why can't my Blorc just do all the Greenskin quests and hit 40? With how fast that was I'll gladly do it again in brand new zones with Chaos and Dark Elf alts. Hardcore players spend all their time in the endgame anyway, it makes no real difference to them.
Man what. Okay first off, if you RvR enough and take your time to do the side missions and quests, you shouldn't have to go through all 3 racial pairings and quests. When was the last time you did some PQs and scenarios with those scenario quests? Those really help level up your character up in a big fucking hurry. You need to deversify your play style some more because I didn't have to go to other racial pairings for more exp until like, R39.
Also, that is a very dumb second argument. I'm sorry but it is. WAR is one of those games that at any level, you can fight and actually contribute. Yet people like you seem to mistake it for a grinding rush. Hell, some of my fondest RvR memories were in the lower tiers. Mythic wants people to take their time, smell the roses and by the time they get to R40 and big boy RvR, they have a great working knowledge of their class and how to siege and keep etc. Currently you cannot blame most people for wanting to play their 40s. The end game is still largely new and untouched and is just now being tapped.
One of the big problems with questing in WAR is the multiple tier approach. There are 3 completely distinct PvE progressions from 1-40, which would be great if each race could just do their own area and reach level cap, but instead Mythic decided to copy WoW's grind length and so every character has to do every zone from tier 2 and on to keep leveling. But instead of WoW's nice zone progression, you have 3 zones that each cover the same 10 levels so you can't finish one from start to finish, you're constantly switching back and forth scrounging for every last quest just so you don't have to fight +3 mobs. It's a pretty crappy setup.
I wish an MMO dev would just suck it up and let the level grind be fast for real(as opposed to "well, it's not EQ" fast). Why can't my Blorc just do all the Greenskin quests and hit 40? With how fast that was I'll gladly do it again in brand new zones with Chaos and Dark Elf alts. Hardcore players spend all their time in the endgame anyway, it makes no real difference to them.
Is it just me or is the PvE grind in this game the shittiest, most unfun PvE experience in any MMO ever?
I've played like every MMO and I want to get into WAR but I get bored and logout whenever I start trying to level. Back and fucking forth on these generic ass quests for shite exp. Fuuuck I just want to be level 40 so I can PvP all the time.
dude fighttest you aren't playing the game right, get the WoW fucking mentality out of your brain because it's flawed and lame.
This was not, I repeat was not meant to grind to 40 to be able to play PvP
This isn't gay WoW, you can PvP the second you get into the game and do it well.
Quests are meant to be doable for people while they travel through open RvR and wait for scenerios, AND I only do the quests that are travel/epic/good experience or items.
Stop thinking this is WoW cause it's far from it, stop feeling obligated to pick up every quest imaginable and finishin them "just cause".
Questing and Open RvR are mutually exclusive, and nonstop questing is still the fastest exp there is. Open RvR would be a lot more fun if everybody were doing that instead of questing for maximum exp. WAR still falls far short of being a real PvP MMO from 1-40.
I've been getting around 7k per scenario in T2 and 3. That is faster than questing. Considering I can do scenarios while questing?
Leveling in this game is a cakewalk. It's only a pain in the ass if you make it a pain in the ass for yourself.
ugh I had a big ol post but it got lost, so lets try this shortened style.
Bolster- Bolster works fine. Sorry bolster doesn't make you the level with all frills. Then there would be no reason to try to level higher. Maybe I am used to it because I spent my fair share of time in CoX and am used to the sidekick deal, but as far as I can tell I couldn't really ask more from it. A team with all lvl 4s in nordenwatch is probably destined to lose. But t1 has the greatest disparity in levels, probably more so than 32 versus 40.
Surviving in t4- I play my DoK as an AoE healer/caster guard. I don't try to go toe to toe with MDPS because I am a healer. As such I get focus fired. Better to help from afar than die up close. My Magus does tons of damage and gets tons of KBs, but perhaps mostly because he is AoE spec. Maybe this is because in SP people tend to group and he would be far less effective in other t4 SCs. His problems are mostly BWs massive CC and WL Fetch. Fetch can be countered with Root or just running like a bitch when I see a lion headed towards me. Both chars can compete in T4, but I had to alter playstyles. Same thing happened when I got to t2 and people had more CC. and in t3 when people had more CC.
Questing- If you hate questing, you can level 1-40 in RvR alone. But you seem to want to complain about both RvR and PvE which makes me think MMOs, and this one in particular, are not for you. Mob experience, unless fighting substantially higher creatures, is very small. The only rewarding way is to use rested exp and kill collector mobs. Quests provide a large bump of exp, no matter how much lower they are than you. This is helpful because once you out level them they are super easy to complete. And while the reward may not be 1:1 with rewards of your own level, you can complete more than one low quest in the time it takes you to complete one even quest. Easily.
Edit: Also, thinking you should be able to do one pairing to get to 40 is retarded from a lore standpoint. This is a war of two sides with three armies. You're all in it together and need to help each other out.
Edit- And also, how is bolster lacking? My 32 magus and DoK always held their own, even at the bottom of tiers. The only time my Magus was having problems is when he got to t4 and I had to learn to save my root to stop lions from fetching me.
But what does "held their own" mean? Were you competitive with higher-level characters in damage output? Survivability? Versatility? Were you getting as many kills?
All bolster does is add a few HP to your character. Higher-level characters have superior stats, superior skills, more skills, and better equipment, plus an inherent damage modifier against lower-level characters.
Honestly, I'm kind of stunned that anyone can think that bolster is anything but awful and inept.
I don't really understand so much of the bolster hate.
Of course it's not going to make you equal to the higher level characters, and yes, the 40's will rape your face when you enter t4 at the lowest level, but I'd rather have the stat boost over nothing.
I entered t4 at level 28 because scenarios weren't popping in t3. BW's were still at their height then but wow did it hurt. And you know? I had to actually l2p and really watch what was going on around me. If not for the bolster buff giving me at least a bit of a chance, I would've been forced to mindlessly grind PQ mobs and probably flip out at the game.
Bolster has let me level close to all my ranks from 1-35 via pvp and I it for that.
I'm amazed people bother with open RvR. joining a PUG and trying for hours to take a heavily defended keep is not my idea of a good time. scenarios are lovely, easily digestible bites that are over in a fixed time frame, win or lose, and give a ton of xp and renown.
I ought to find a good guild, though, so I might actually get some organized oRvR in, which I imagine might actually be fun and profitable.
I've already expressed my opinions on scenarios elsewhere in these threads, but suffice to say, I have multiple characters exalted in World of Warcraft battlegrounds, I didn't pay money to do the same in WAR.
I'm amazed people bother with open RvR. joining a PUG and trying for hours to take a heavily defended keep is not my idea of a good time. scenarios are lovely, easily digestible bites that are over in a fixed time frame, win or lose, and give a ton of xp and renown.
I ought to find a good guild, though, so I might actually get some organized oRvR in, which I imagine might actually be fun and profitable.
I've already expressed my opinions on scenarios elsewhere in these threads, but suffice to say, I have multiple characters exalted in World of Warcraft battlegrounds, I didn't pay money to do the same in WAR.
A well defended keep is definitely frustrating for the attackers, but it is awesome for the defenders. Also since probably half the population in that tier is in one area, there are plenty of empty keeps waiting to be stolen.
dude fighttest you aren't playing the game right, get the WoW fucking mentality out of your brain because it's flawed and lame.
This was not, I repeat was not meant to grind to 40 to be able to play PvP
This isn't gay WoW, you can PvP the second you get into the game and do it well.
Quests are meant to be doable for people while they travel through open RvR and wait for scenerios, AND I only do the quests that are travel/epic/good experience or items.
Stop thinking this is WoW cause it's far from it, stop feeling obligated to pick up every quest imaginable and finishin them "just cause".
Except I don't want to play the constrained version of PvP that is low levels. To me PvP doesn't get fun until everyone has all their tricks and abilities to make the fights more dynamic. Is low level PvP "okay" and a valid distraction? Sure. But I don't want to spend as much time in the low levels as the game makes me.
I'm not saying nobody enjoys it. I'm not saying the game was designed to what I want. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm just saying it still seems crazy to me that a PvP-centric game is such a grind to level.
I didn't make it through the free month and I came back because I loved DAoC and dig the WAR setting so I want to get into it. However even in my teen levels every time I glance at my exp bar I'm stunned at how little it's moved and am forcing myself to not quit again through willpower alone.
Except I don't want to play the constrained version of PvP that is low levels. To me PvP doesn't get fun until everyone has all their tricks and abilities to make the fights more dynamic. Is low level PvP "okay" and a valid distraction? Sure. But I don't want to spend as much time in the low levels as the game makes me.
I'm not saying nobody enjoys it. I'm not saying the game was designed to what I want. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm just saying it still seems crazy to me that a PvP-centric game is such a grind to level.
I didn't make it through the free month and I came back because I loved DAoC and dig the WAR setting so I want to get into it. However even in my teen levels every time I glance at my exp bar I'm stunned at how little it's moved and am forcing myself to not quit again through willpower alone.
Dude there's plenty of fighting and excitement in T2 and ESPECIALLY T3.
Most of the moves your characters gets is from T2-T3 and then only moves after are the last ones in your tree and a few morales, couple moves.
Seriously though, I think you just haven't given PvP a try and/or just don't like it and WAR might not be for you. Scenerios is where it's fucking @ but playing with retards does suck.
Also, if you do 10-15 scenerios on rested Experience, most likely you're going to level man and that's not counting questing while waiting or doing open RvR. You need to stop worrying about getting to end game and just set your goals to the next couple levels or something and have fun with it.
Not trying to be a dick, but what do you want man? I've leveled a Bright Wizard to 28 in about a week and that was just doing scenerios and side quests.
Seriously, if you're trying to rush through the game to have fun, go back to WoW.
Except I don't want to play the constrained version of PvP that is low levels. To me PvP doesn't get fun until everyone has all their tricks and abilities to make the fights more dynamic. Is low level PvP "okay" and a valid distraction? Sure. But I don't want to spend as much time in the low levels as the game makes me.
I'm not saying nobody enjoys it. I'm not saying the game was designed to what I want. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm just saying it still seems crazy to me that a PvP-centric game is such a grind to level.
I didn't make it through the free month and I came back because I loved DAoC and dig the WAR setting so I want to get into it. However even in my teen levels every time I glance at my exp bar I'm stunned at how little it's moved and am forcing myself to not quit again through willpower alone.
ORvR and scenarios seem just as dynamic in T4 as they did in T2 and especially T3, only people have a few extra abilities and fancier armor. In fact, it seems like both scenario and ORvR were more common in T3 than it is in T4, since T4 ORvR becomes all about the zone flip/lock as opposed to the glee of killing shit, and scenario queues get wonky in T4 (or maybe I've been alone in finding T4 zones that won't even let me queue for scenarios).
WAR seems designed to justify the slow leveling curve by making PvP available to anyone who wants it, from the very start of the game. This is in contrast to other PvP-oriented games that have the grease the rails of the to max level train since that's where "real PvP" starts.
I think Bolster should put everyone's stats at one level below the max. So for t2 instead of boosting everyone to 18 it boosts them all to 20. When you take the better, higher level gear into consideration I don't understand why they capped bolster at such a low level.
Hey, anyone who wants a mod to owe them a minor favor should hook me up with a trial.
Seriously, I hella want to try this shiznit.
Should just buy it! The discount on steam ends tonight! I just got my account and I'm not sure when the recruit a friend trials come out so can't help you here. But I'm sure someone else will be able to.
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I think Bolster should put everyone's stats at one level below the max. So for t2 instead of boosting everyone to 18 it boosts them all to 20. When you take the better, higher level gear into consideration I don't understand why they capped bolster at such a low level.
That's more or less what I'm talking about.
Characters who are an actual higher level already have a huge advantage. They have more mastery points, more abilities, better equipment, etc. They are, in every way, superior to players who are being bolstered. So why does bolster further exacerbate that problem by aiming so low?
What's the worst that happens, more people are competitive in scenarios instead of having a bunch of renown pinatas floating around, hampering their team?
Edit: Also, thinking you should be able to do one pairing to get to 40 is retarded from a lore standpoint. This is a war of two sides with three armies. You're all in it together and need to help each other out.
Great. Lore.
Why is it not retarded from a gameplay standpoint, then?
I loved DAoC's RvR combat once I hit the level cap and things evened out a bit more. It was the same way with WAR's beta. That's what I want out of this game. Level 40. As even a playing field as the game gets. It's where all the developer attention and balance consideration goes. It's the one place you can get off the damned treadmill and enjoy the one thing that this game does better than every other MMO out there.
Leveling up? It's a fucking chore. Leveling via scenarios? Sure, they're great experience per-scenario - if you win - but when you're on in the middle of the day, it's pissant experience because they pop so slowly.
I play WAR for the RvR. T1-T3 balance is garbage, in part because it's harder to balance in in part because a huge portion of the player base are the sort of retards who think it should be imbalanced. In fact we have a lot of those on this very forum. I remember back in late beta, after the NDA dropped, posting screenshots of my Ironbreaker's combat log at level 11 in T1 scenarios with T2 equipment, where Witch Elves were hitting me for single-digit damage, and most of the replies were telling me that it's supposed to be that way, and that it's a good thing.
Those people piss me off. Those people provoke me to ranting (at times).
I hate this game's PvE. I hate most of the low-level RvR. But when everything comes together, and I've got friends and teammates doing their jobs and working togher, and it's a good fight, and I'm not being smacked around by bugs and bogus abilities, I don't even care if I win or lose, because it's the most fun gaming has to offer. I love it.
I think the ideal level curve solution, to insure it still feels like an accomplishment making it to 40 and it takes awhile because supposedly that helps retain customers (though in WAR's case you could argue the opposite), would be 1-11: as it is now, 12-18: fast, 19-21: slow, 22-28 fast, 29-31: slow, 31-35: fast, 35-40 slow. I know I'd prefer that to what we have now and, personally, I don't really want to rush to 40 but I agree lvling slows down too much.
I think WAR kind of screwed the pooch with only giving us 40 levels. Sure there are also Renown levels but I think WoW has the right idea: more levels so the carrot feels closer, even though the ultimate carrot (max level) might take as long/longer than WAR. No reason WAR couldn't have been 50 or 60 levels if they changed Mastery point distribution. 40 just seems like an odd number anyway.
I think the ideal level curve solution, to insure it still feels like an accomplishment making it to 40 and it takes awhile because supposedly that helps retain customers (though in WAR's case you could argue the opposite), would be 1-11: as it is now, 12-18: fast, 19-21: slow, 22-28 fast, 29-31: slow, 31-35: fast, 35-40 slow. I know I'd prefer that to what we have now and, personally, I don't really want to rush to 40 but I agree lvling slows down too much.
I think WAR kind of screwed the pooch with only giving us 40 levels. Sure there are also Renown levels but I think WoW has the right idea: more levels so the carrot feels closer, even though the ultimate carrot (max level) might take as long/longer than WAR. No reason WAR couldn't have been 50 or 60 levels if they changed Mastery point distribution. 40 just seems like an odd number anyway.
40 levels is fine, but there's no reason they had to be stretched out as far as WoW's 60 levels were. IMHO the amount of time it took to reach 40 in WoW is plenty. PvP MMOs should have shorter level grinds than PvE MMOs - PvE is about the content, PvP is about the competition. Level cap is when the PvP is most fair and most involved, there's no point in stringing players along before they can get there.
I think the ideal level curve solution, to insure it still feels like an accomplishment making it to 40 and it takes awhile because supposedly that helps retain customers (though in WAR's case you could argue the opposite), would be 1-11: as it is now, 12-18: fast, 19-21: slow, 22-28 fast, 29-31: slow, 31-35: fast, 35-40 slow. I know I'd prefer that to what we have now and, personally, I don't really want to rush to 40 but I agree lvling slows down too much.
I think WAR kind of screwed the pooch with only giving us 40 levels. Sure there are also Renown levels but I think WoW has the right idea: more levels so the carrot feels closer, even though the ultimate carrot (max level) might take as long/longer than WAR. No reason WAR couldn't have been 50 or 60 levels if they changed Mastery point distribution. 40 just seems like an odd number anyway.
I don't mind 40 either. I just think that they should tune it so that IF you do every single quest in your pairing you should be only about 10% away from the next tier.
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Sev: Your gameplay is the most heavily yomi based around. Usually you look for characters that allow you to force guessing situations for big dmg. Even if the guess is mathematically nowhere near in your favor lol. You're happiest when you have either a 50/50, 33/33/33 or even a 75/25 situation to go crazy with. And you will take big risks to force those situations to come up.
These friend trials. Is it going to make me play on the same server as the giver? Just wondering before I beg for one as I will probably want to play on an oceanic server.
strebalicious on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Once I hit the same level as my bolster I stop wanting to level.
Like full stop I wish I could turn off my experience because I'm having so much fun.
I do want to hit 30 to get my extra tactic but after that I only want to do orvr and scenarios if orvr isn't going well. I don't bother with the pve until I get tired of that.
I can perfectly understand the complaints of not being able to be super efficient but really just stop that and have fun for chrissakes. You can easily smash a 31 at 28. I have efficiency phases too. I've also recognised that pure giggly fun is more efficiently realised by throwing yourself into the fighting without thinking about much more than the fight you are in right now. Never give up.
I see a lot of people give up when I know from experience they gave up at the peak of that other classes survivability. Like a runepriest, I've seen them blow all their morales and big stuff and thought right buddy now you going down and that's when the others attacking him bugger off and I'm sitting there thinking "What."
Real life morale, real life motivation to keep fighting in the actual combat of this game, and have every combat be efficient and flexible, is a specific factor that will enable you to win in situations you would otherwise lose.
This includes learning to effectively and persistently communicate (say is really good because a lot of "idiots" are too busy fighting to pay attention to the chat log but will respond if you do a /say in front of their character. it works bitches, do it), keep calm, don't lose your temper, don't put so much into it that you nerd rage over inane stuff, and just learn when it's not worth it and that walking away isn't a bad thing.
Knowing what the classes can and can't do is just one aspect of pvp.
Now there are of course situations where logic and experience tell you luck is against you and it's best to leave.
So leave and don't think about it. Don't worry about it, don't stress about it. You know why you are leaving, you know the justification for it. There's no reason to get angry? Just move on to the next one.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Man, in almost all the scenarios tonight I was the only tank or one of two to destros four or five. Time after time they'd smash through me and lay into our overly DPS laden groups.
I tried to get people to attack their healers and pointed out they were barely denting the tanks but no, our DPS would try in vain to kill tanks, while destro healers kept them at full health and their DPS would pick off our DPS one by one. Leaving me standing there by myself wincing as I get focus fired by their entire force. The culmination being a complete shutout at one point.
Sooooo frustrating.
Started going a little better after the shutout when I said fuck it and began just suicide attacking their healers on my own with my AoE technique and knockback but I spent most of my time looking at the respawn timer as my healer buddy was too busy trying to keep the rest of the group alive to res me very often :P
HappylilElf on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Btw I'm not trying to preach I'm just trying to explain the philosophy that lets me enjoy this game 1-40.
I know all the faults with the game as well as anyone they're not really counterpoints to me.
In addition I think a lot of the counterpoints along the lines of "well the pugs suck" is not something you can blame the game for. How are mythic supposed to mind control every player in your scenario? Or maybe severely punish anything but playing a particular "way". Go go totalitarian mmo?
I think that's a really bad way to think about it. If you get a bad pug that's your bad luck but not the games fault or the game designs fault. You are entirely free to notice good players, tell them, make friends with them, and create parties to go into scenarios with.
I do agree with the separate tier for 40's thing that would be really good.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
These friend trials. Is it going to make me play on the same server as the giver? Just wondering before I beg for one as I will probably want to play on an oceanic server.
Sorry for the double post but I wanted to answer this since I missed it.
I'm pretty sure the trial is not locked since the last person I gave a trial to asked me which server to make it on over vent so I'm guessing he got hit with a giant list of servers.
If you want to know what oceanic servers people here play on I play destruction on darklands and morblitz plays order on ironclaw.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Damnit. Why does Blackguard have to be so awesome with the polearm and then just looking so awesome already at level 7.
Damnit. Damnit. Damnnn.
Kagnaros on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
Yeah I remember seeing one of the higher level students at the ma I used to do had chosen spear to master as like a side hobby. It wasn't specifically taught but he was given special instruction because he wanted to learn it for fun. The strikes of the blackguard are very obviously a fusion of chinese mainland styles. Even his autoattack attacks are like the very basic strikes. It really impressed me.
Although he does spin a lot more than normal. :P
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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Edit- And also, how is bolster lacking? My 32 magus and DoK always held their own, even at the bottom of tiers. The only time my Magus was having problems is when he got to t4 and I had to learn to save my root to stop lions from fetching me.
It's not an issue of failing or whether or not it works at all, it's an issue of whether or not it feels rewarding, worth the time, or fun. And to me, it is an abject failure in that regard. The equipment is usually garbage, the experience rewards are tiny, and the quests are - true to MMO form - mind-numbingly boring.
When my SH was getting near the end of T3, I had completed chapter 13-14 in all three pairings, plus chapter 10-12 in two of them, and was still level 28.
Clearly you and I have a completely different idea of what's acceptable. If you're at the end of T2, going all the way back to the beginning of T2 in a different pairing, you're going to be fighting mobs so low they don't give experience, and quest rewards that are about 1/4-1/2 what you'd get for a quest your own level. That doesn't bother you?
But what does "held their own" mean? Were you competitive with higher-level characters in damage output? Survivability? Versatility? Were you getting as many kills?
All bolster does is add a few HP to your character. Higher-level characters have superior stats, superior skills, more skills, and better equipment, plus an inherent damage modifier against lower-level characters.
Honestly, I'm kind of stunned that anyone can think that bolster is anything but awful and inept.
I'm totally in that game! I'm one of the 4 runepriests, Inien. Still trying to get the hang of the game. Sorry for the crappy game...
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how was your 32 DoK not getting insta gibbed in T4? Even at 36 I was getting killed so damn fast by 40's.
This was not, I repeat was not meant to grind to 40 to be able to play PvP
This isn't gay WoW, you can PvP the second you get into the game and do it well.
Quests are meant to be doable for people while they travel through open RvR and wait for scenerios, AND I only do the quests that are travel/epic/good experience or items.
Stop thinking this is WoW cause it's far from it, stop feeling obligated to pick up every quest imaginable and finishin them "just cause".
I wish an MMO dev would just suck it up and let the level grind be fast for real(as opposed to "well, it's not EQ" fast). Why can't my Blorc just do all the Greenskin quests and hit 40? With how fast that was I'll gladly do it again in brand new zones with Chaos and Dark Elf alts. Hardcore players spend all their time in the endgame anyway, it makes no real difference to them.
Questing and Open RvR are mutually exclusive, and nonstop questing is still the fastest exp there is. Open RvR would be a lot more fun if everybody were doing that instead of questing for maximum exp. WAR still falls far short of being a real PvP MMO from 1-40.
Man what. Okay first off, if you RvR enough and take your time to do the side missions and quests, you shouldn't have to go through all 3 racial pairings and quests. When was the last time you did some PQs and scenarios with those scenario quests? Those really help level up your character up in a big fucking hurry. You need to deversify your play style some more because I didn't have to go to other racial pairings for more exp until like, R39.
Also, that is a very dumb second argument. I'm sorry but it is. WAR is one of those games that at any level, you can fight and actually contribute. Yet people like you seem to mistake it for a grinding rush. Hell, some of my fondest RvR memories were in the lower tiers. Mythic wants people to take their time, smell the roses and by the time they get to R40 and big boy RvR, they have a great working knowledge of their class and how to siege and keep etc. Currently you cannot blame most people for wanting to play their 40s. The end game is still largely new and untouched and is just now being tapped.
I've been getting around 7k per scenario in T2 and 3. That is faster than questing. Considering I can do scenarios while questing?
Leveling in this game is a cakewalk. It's only a pain in the ass if you make it a pain in the ass for yourself.
Bolster- Bolster works fine. Sorry bolster doesn't make you the level with all frills. Then there would be no reason to try to level higher. Maybe I am used to it because I spent my fair share of time in CoX and am used to the sidekick deal, but as far as I can tell I couldn't really ask more from it. A team with all lvl 4s in nordenwatch is probably destined to lose. But t1 has the greatest disparity in levels, probably more so than 32 versus 40.
Surviving in t4- I play my DoK as an AoE healer/caster guard. I don't try to go toe to toe with MDPS because I am a healer. As such I get focus fired. Better to help from afar than die up close. My Magus does tons of damage and gets tons of KBs, but perhaps mostly because he is AoE spec. Maybe this is because in SP people tend to group and he would be far less effective in other t4 SCs. His problems are mostly BWs massive CC and WL Fetch. Fetch can be countered with Root or just running like a bitch when I see a lion headed towards me. Both chars can compete in T4, but I had to alter playstyles. Same thing happened when I got to t2 and people had more CC. and in t3 when people had more CC.
Questing- If you hate questing, you can level 1-40 in RvR alone. But you seem to want to complain about both RvR and PvE which makes me think MMOs, and this one in particular, are not for you. Mob experience, unless fighting substantially higher creatures, is very small. The only rewarding way is to use rested exp and kill collector mobs. Quests provide a large bump of exp, no matter how much lower they are than you. This is helpful because once you out level them they are super easy to complete. And while the reward may not be 1:1 with rewards of your own level, you can complete more than one low quest in the time it takes you to complete one even quest. Easily.
Edit: Also, thinking you should be able to do one pairing to get to 40 is retarded from a lore standpoint. This is a war of two sides with three armies. You're all in it together and need to help each other out.
I don't really understand so much of the bolster hate.
Of course it's not going to make you equal to the higher level characters, and yes, the 40's will rape your face when you enter t4 at the lowest level, but I'd rather have the stat boost over nothing.
I entered t4 at level 28 because scenarios weren't popping in t3. BW's were still at their height then but wow did it hurt. And you know? I had to actually l2p and really watch what was going on around me. If not for the bolster buff giving me at least a bit of a chance, I would've been forced to mindlessly grind PQ mobs and probably flip out at the game.
Bolster has let me level close to all my ranks from 1-35 via pvp and I
ha ha oh wow
I've already expressed my opinions on scenarios elsewhere in these threads, but suffice to say, I have multiple characters exalted in World of Warcraft battlegrounds, I didn't pay money to do the same in WAR.
A well defended keep is definitely frustrating for the attackers, but it is awesome for the defenders. Also since probably half the population in that tier is in one area, there are plenty of empty keeps waiting to be stolen.
Except I don't want to play the constrained version of PvP that is low levels. To me PvP doesn't get fun until everyone has all their tricks and abilities to make the fights more dynamic. Is low level PvP "okay" and a valid distraction? Sure. But I don't want to spend as much time in the low levels as the game makes me.
I'm not saying nobody enjoys it. I'm not saying the game was designed to what I want. I'm not saying the game sucks. I'm just saying it still seems crazy to me that a PvP-centric game is such a grind to level.
I didn't make it through the free month and I came back because I loved DAoC and dig the WAR setting so I want to get into it. However even in my teen levels every time I glance at my exp bar I'm stunned at how little it's moved and am forcing myself to not quit again through willpower alone.
Most of the moves your characters gets is from T2-T3 and then only moves after are the last ones in your tree and a few morales, couple moves.
Seriously though, I think you just haven't given PvP a try and/or just don't like it and WAR might not be for you. Scenerios is where it's fucking @ but playing with retards does suck.
Also, if you do 10-15 scenerios on rested Experience, most likely you're going to level man and that's not counting questing while waiting or doing open RvR. You need to stop worrying about getting to end game and just set your goals to the next couple levels or something and have fun with it.
Not trying to be a dick, but what do you want man? I've leveled a Bright Wizard to 28 in about a week and that was just doing scenerios and side quests.
Seriously, if you're trying to rush through the game to have fun, go back to WoW.
ORvR and scenarios seem just as dynamic in T4 as they did in T2 and especially T3, only people have a few extra abilities and fancier armor. In fact, it seems like both scenario and ORvR were more common in T3 than it is in T4, since T4 ORvR becomes all about the zone flip/lock as opposed to the glee of killing shit, and scenario queues get wonky in T4 (or maybe I've been alone in finding T4 zones that won't even let me queue for scenarios).
WAR seems designed to justify the slow leveling curve by making PvP available to anyone who wants it, from the very start of the game. This is in contrast to other PvP-oriented games that have the grease the rails of the to max level train since that's where "real PvP" starts.
Seriously, I hella want to try this shiznit.
Should just buy it! The discount on steam ends tonight! I just got my account and I'm not sure when the recruit a friend trials come out so can't help you here. But I'm sure someone else will be able to.
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That's more or less what I'm talking about.
Characters who are an actual higher level already have a huge advantage. They have more mastery points, more abilities, better equipment, etc. They are, in every way, superior to players who are being bolstered. So why does bolster further exacerbate that problem by aiming so low?
What's the worst that happens, more people are competitive in scenarios instead of having a bunch of renown pinatas floating around, hampering their team?
Great. Lore.
Why is it not retarded from a gameplay standpoint, then?
I loved DAoC's RvR combat once I hit the level cap and things evened out a bit more. It was the same way with WAR's beta. That's what I want out of this game. Level 40. As even a playing field as the game gets. It's where all the developer attention and balance consideration goes. It's the one place you can get off the damned treadmill and enjoy the one thing that this game does better than every other MMO out there.
Leveling up? It's a fucking chore. Leveling via scenarios? Sure, they're great experience per-scenario - if you win - but when you're on in the middle of the day, it's pissant experience because they pop so slowly.
I play WAR for the RvR. T1-T3 balance is garbage, in part because it's harder to balance in in part because a huge portion of the player base are the sort of retards who think it should be imbalanced. In fact we have a lot of those on this very forum. I remember back in late beta, after the NDA dropped, posting screenshots of my Ironbreaker's combat log at level 11 in T1 scenarios with T2 equipment, where Witch Elves were hitting me for single-digit damage, and most of the replies were telling me that it's supposed to be that way, and that it's a good thing.
Those people piss me off. Those people provoke me to ranting (at times).
I hate this game's PvE. I hate most of the low-level RvR. But when everything comes together, and I've got friends and teammates doing their jobs and working togher, and it's a good fight, and I'm not being smacked around by bugs and bogus abilities, I don't even care if I win or lose, because it's the most fun gaming has to offer. I love it.
I think WAR kind of screwed the pooch with only giving us 40 levels. Sure there are also Renown levels but I think WoW has the right idea: more levels so the carrot feels closer, even though the ultimate carrot (max level) might take as long/longer than WAR. No reason WAR couldn't have been 50 or 60 levels if they changed Mastery point distribution. 40 just seems like an odd number anyway.
40 levels is fine, but there's no reason they had to be stretched out as far as WoW's 60 levels were. IMHO the amount of time it took to reach 40 in WoW is plenty. PvP MMOs should have shorter level grinds than PvE MMOs - PvE is about the content, PvP is about the competition. Level cap is when the PvP is most fair and most involved, there's no point in stringing players along before they can get there.
I don't mind 40 either. I just think that they should tune it so that IF you do every single quest in your pairing you should be only about 10% away from the next tier.
Like full stop I wish I could turn off my experience because I'm having so much fun.
I do want to hit 30 to get my extra tactic but after that I only want to do orvr and scenarios if orvr isn't going well. I don't bother with the pve until I get tired of that.
I can perfectly understand the complaints of not being able to be super efficient but really just stop that and have fun for chrissakes. You can easily smash a 31 at 28. I have efficiency phases too. I've also recognised that pure giggly fun is more efficiently realised by throwing yourself into the fighting without thinking about much more than the fight you are in right now. Never give up.
I see a lot of people give up when I know from experience they gave up at the peak of that other classes survivability. Like a runepriest, I've seen them blow all their morales and big stuff and thought right buddy now you going down and that's when the others attacking him bugger off and I'm sitting there thinking "What."
Real life morale, real life motivation to keep fighting in the actual combat of this game, and have every combat be efficient and flexible, is a specific factor that will enable you to win in situations you would otherwise lose.
This includes learning to effectively and persistently communicate (say is really good because a lot of "idiots" are too busy fighting to pay attention to the chat log but will respond if you do a /say in front of their character. it works bitches, do it), keep calm, don't lose your temper, don't put so much into it that you nerd rage over inane stuff, and just learn when it's not worth it and that walking away isn't a bad thing.
Knowing what the classes can and can't do is just one aspect of pvp.
Now there are of course situations where logic and experience tell you luck is against you and it's best to leave.
So leave and don't think about it. Don't worry about it, don't stress about it. You know why you are leaving, you know the justification for it. There's no reason to get angry? Just move on to the next one.
I tried to get people to attack their healers and pointed out they were barely denting the tanks but no, our DPS would try in vain to kill tanks, while destro healers kept them at full health and their DPS would pick off our DPS one by one. Leaving me standing there by myself wincing as I get focus fired by their entire force. The culmination being a complete shutout at one point.
Sooooo frustrating.
Started going a little better after the shutout when I said fuck it and began just suicide attacking their healers on my own with my AoE technique and knockback but I spent most of my time looking at the respawn timer as my healer buddy was too busy trying to keep the rest of the group alive to res me very often :P
I know all the faults with the game as well as anyone they're not really counterpoints to me.
In addition I think a lot of the counterpoints along the lines of "well the pugs suck" is not something you can blame the game for. How are mythic supposed to mind control every player in your scenario? Or maybe severely punish anything but playing a particular "way". Go go totalitarian mmo?
I think that's a really bad way to think about it. If you get a bad pug that's your bad luck but not the games fault or the game designs fault. You are entirely free to notice good players, tell them, make friends with them, and create parties to go into scenarios with.
I do agree with the separate tier for 40's thing that would be really good.
Sorry for the double post but I wanted to answer this since I missed it.
I'm pretty sure the trial is not locked since the last person I gave a trial to asked me which server to make it on over vent so I'm guessing he got hit with a giant list of servers.
If you want to know what oceanic servers people here play on I play destruction on darklands and morblitz plays order on ironclaw.
Damnit. Damnit. Damnnn.
Although he does spin a lot more than normal. :P
I'm still looking.
PM'd. Check your Inbox.
Is it the WoW style of forcing you onto one or can you go anywhere?
Also I would appreciate a trial, I'm in Europe though, don't know if that would stop it working from an American or whatever invite