Was there anything more during the event to show him coming back? Other then a throwaway panel with him on a seahorse with the narration going "Oh, hey! Aquaman's back!"
pretty sure that Johns has already confirmed that Aquaman is a Black Lantern and "comes back" in Blackest Night.... so maybe the Aquaman seen in FC#7 is the other newer Aquaman?
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
He is stuck in the past. He etches his symbol into the rock, someone in the modern era finds it, and they send, oh, let's say Booster Gold back to get him.
I'm not certain, but I believe you're mistaken:
it looks like he's not even in the past, but rather in the distant future of Earth 51. This is actually a reasonable result of the Omega Sanction. The problem is, how can he send a message back in time?
Personally, I find this kind of time travel in multiple universes irritating and incomprehensible:
whatever future Batman is in, it's purely the current future of the present of Earth 51, which means that if ANYTHING changes the future, Batman ceases to exist since futures aren't just alternate worlds. 52 ditched the concept of a branching multiverse to have ONLY 52 worlds, which means Batman is screwed.
There was still time travel aplenty after 52, iarc.
What you said makes, perfect sense but... yeah. Comic book logic.
Ok one thing that is stupider than all the rest of the stuff
The rubik's cube was completely 100% pointless and never did anything even after it was hyped up to being the key to defeating the anti-life
I mean seriously what the fuck why would you waste like five pages of a book that doesn't have enough pages on something that has no importance in any way to anything ever
You could ask 'what ever happened to' or 'what was the point' about nearly every character or plot point in the book. It should have been a stand-alone story, ala "Earth-2" or ARKHAM ASYLUM. It completely fails as a tentpole event book, and will most likely rarely (if ever) be mentioned in future DC stories.
For all the talk from Morrison about how FC would be superior to SI, you can clearly see that SI set the Marvel Universe up for the next few years, and Bru/Fraction/Slott/Bendis have material to run with. What the hell are you supposed to take out of FINAL CRISIS? Hell, DiDio has even said they won't let anyone but Morrison write about the multiverse - so what was the point?
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Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
i certainly enjoyed FC more than SI purely based on the fact that it wasn't some bullshit that was solved in like a day
Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
GM: I wondered about that myself. I love what Gail Simone (especially) and other writers have done to empower the Wonder Woman concept but I must admit I’ve always sensed something slightly bogus and troubling at its heart. When I dug into the roots of the character I found an uneasy melange of girl power, bondage and disturbed sexuality that has never been adequately dealt with or fully processed out to my mind. I’ve always felt there was something oddly artificial about Wonder Woman, something not like a woman at all.
I love this solely because it will make S_D's collective head explode
For all the talk from Morrison about how FC would be superior to SI, you can clearly see that SI set the Marvel Universe up for the next few years, and Bru/Fraction/Slott/Bendis have material to run with. What the hell are you supposed to take out of FINAL CRISIS? Hell, DiDio has even said they won't let anyone but Morrison write about the multiverse - so what was the point?
That's precisely the problem. SI came after years of groundwork, and ultimately all the series did was act as a set up for the next story arc. The story itself never managed to do anything that hadn't been done in the hundreds of other story about shape-shifting alien invaders.
Final Crisis wasn't a success, but at least it had ambition and vision.
Quality-wise, I'd certainly say it's an individual choice.
In the sense that each story sets up their respective universes for future storylines, there isn't even a serious comparison to be made. SI/DR sets the tone for the entire MU for the next two-three years. FC is borderline COUNTDOWN-esque in how quickly it will be ignored.
You'll have to elaborate on which parts had "ambition and vision".
It's a story about the apocalypse, the subjugation of humanity, and the deaths of icons and gods that spans the entire multiverse. You have to admit that that's kind of rare.
SI, meanwhile, was just the typical Skrull invasion plot of the likes we've seen in Fantastic Four and The Avengers, but bloated. It also had an epilogue which encouraged you to read Dark Reign, which does nothing to salvage the story at all.
Final Crisis certainly felt like it all took place in a day or two. Each issue, they are still fighting the same battles in the same exact place. There just isn't much sense of time flow in the series. I mean, how many issues was it that Hal and John and Guy and Kyle were flying towards the earth? It just seems like a ton of stuff was static. And then it all ended very abruptly and in a whirl of incomprehensible action.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Final Crisis certainly felt like it all took place in a day or two. Each issue, they are still fighting the same battles in the same exact place. There just isn't much sense of time flow in the series. I mean, how many issues was it that Hal and John and Guy and Kyle were flying towards the earth? It just seems like a ton of stuff was static. And then it all ended very abruptly and in a whirl of incomprehensible action.
On Earth there was a month jump between #3 and 4 (I think it's those issues). Outside of Earth it was only a day or two
edit: It's also explained that it's supposed to read that way. Darkseid was falling through time and messing up time/space
Secret Invasion was 8 issues that took place over what, three hours?
You'll have to elaborate on which parts had "ambition and vision".
It's a story about the apocalypse, the subjugation of humanity, and the deaths of icons and gods that spans the entire multiverse. You have to admit that that's kind of rare.
SI, meanwhile, was just the typical Skrull invasion plot of the likes we've seen in Fantastic Four and The Avengers, but bloated. It also had an epilogue which encouraged you to read Dark Reign, which does nothing to salvage the story at all.
It's rare if you haven't read the Kirby source material it was cribbed from. Or CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Or KINGDOM COME. Or Simonson's THOR run. MIRACLEMAN. Byrne's FANTASTIC FOUR.
Secret Invasion was also static. The Invasion (not the set-up, which precedes the mini) takes place in a day, which is even shorter than FC which had an initial assault, the spread of the Anti-Life Equation, the heroes regrouping and attempting to hold their ground, and then the final issue.
It's rare if you haven't read the Kirby source material it was cribbed from. Or CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Or KINGDOM COME. Or Simonson's THOR run. MIRACLEMAN. Byrne's FANTASTIC FOUR.
Aside from the fact that that's a short list compared to SI drawing from every appearance the Skrulls have ever had since their introduction, none of those stories contain every element present in Final Crisis.
I think part of the problem is that Grant was almost going for too wide a spectrum. He threw in everything and the kitchen sink. There was so much content, so many characters, so much to absorb that it lost all of its connection to the reader. There was so much that it was hard to care about anything. And the storytelling was so detached and disjointed that it made following the action a chore.
After it has all been said and done, I feel that the best stories that came out of Final Crisis were some of the Tie-In books.
Revelations
Rogue's Revenge
Superman Beyond
Those were the stories worth reading in FC. The core books were much too garbled and spastic to ever draw me in or make me care.
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Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
but Superman Beyond practically was part of the core book
actually, it was supposed to be, but that would've been too much for issues
Yeah but Superman Beyond actually told one story. It wasn't going in 20 different directions at once. It didn't features a cast of 4,000 characters. It was easy to follow and it was a fun read.
Will Final Crisis have a lasting impact on the DCU?
I mean, the Earth is wrecked, billions are dead, no one escaped the horrors of Darkseid; will any of that show in the coming months? Are we back to the status quo? Will the people deposited in a different universe stay there? TELL ME!
Will Final Crisis have a lasting impact on the DCU?
I mean, the Earth is wrecked, billions are dead, no one escaped the horrors of Darkseid; will any of that show in the coming months? Are we back to the status quo? Will the people deposited in a different universe stay there? TELL ME!
See, this would be an interesting story - but I'm inclined to think FC will have minimal-to-zero impact. They'll show people rebuilding a few cities, that'll be about it.
Will Final Crisis have a lasting impact on the DCU?
I mean, the Earth is wrecked, billions are dead, no one escaped the horrors of Darkseid; will any of that show in the coming months? Are we back to the status quo? Will the people deposited in a different universe stay there? TELL ME!
See, this would be an interesting story - but I'm inclined to think FC will have minimal-to-zero impact. They'll show people rebuilding a few cities, that'll be about it.
yeah man remember how much impact the skrull invasion had on people who weren't super heroes
I don't understand why a lasting impact on a line of comics is seen as indicative of an individual comic's quality.
Ultimatum is set to destroy the Ultimate Universe. Does that make it good?
Because we would like continuity to matter, knowing that a story changes the medium in which it is told. That makes it more worthwhile. It gives the story more impact.
[EDIT] By the way, continuity is not the sole determining factor of quality, but it certainly adds to it. Ultimatum is pretty bad because of the horrible, soul-rendering shit that happens in it.
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Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited January 2009
i think grant morrison must have done something horrible to you as a child
i've never seen you make a post that wasn't slandering him in some way
on that note, why are you stirring up shit in this thread anyway?
I don't understand why a lasting impact on a line of comics is seen as indicative of an individual comic's quality.
Ultimatum is set to destroy the Ultimate Universe. Does that make it good?
Because we would like continuity to matter, knowing that a story changes the medium in which it is told. That makes it more worthwhile. It gives the story more impact.
[EDIT] By the way, continuity is not the sole determining factor of quality, but it certainly adds to it. Ultimatum is pretty bad because of the horrible, soul-rendering shit that happens in it.
Except history has shown us no change is permanent and that the virtue of continuity lies solely in scope of a publisher's universe, not in its capacity for change.
If you want the events you read about to have a permanent impact, then stick to self-contained titles or turn to another medium altogether.
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There was still time travel aplenty after 52, iarc.
What you said makes, perfect sense but... yeah. Comic book logic.
I mean seriously what the fuck why would you waste like five pages of a book that doesn't have enough pages on something that has no importance in any way to anything ever
Also what ever happened to Libra?
For all the talk from Morrison about how FC would be superior to SI, you can clearly see that SI set the Marvel Universe up for the next few years, and Bru/Fraction/Slott/Bendis have material to run with. What the hell are you supposed to take out of FINAL CRISIS? Hell, DiDio has even said they won't let anyone but Morrison write about the multiverse - so what was the point?
if anything SI should have been a stand alone
As soon as Superman got back everything was fine
That's precisely the problem. SI came after years of groundwork, and ultimately all the series did was act as a set up for the next story arc. The story itself never managed to do anything that hadn't been done in the hundreds of other story about shape-shifting alien invaders.
Final Crisis wasn't a success, but at least it had ambition and vision.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
In the sense that each story sets up their respective universes for future storylines, there isn't even a serious comparison to be made. SI/DR sets the tone for the entire MU for the next two-three years. FC is borderline COUNTDOWN-esque in how quickly it will be ignored.
And that's because of how Morrison views Superman.
i'm talking about holding it's own as a story
in my opinion, SI was boring as fuck in that regard.
It's a story about the apocalypse, the subjugation of humanity, and the deaths of icons and gods that spans the entire multiverse. You have to admit that that's kind of rare.
SI, meanwhile, was just the typical Skrull invasion plot of the likes we've seen in Fantastic Four and The Avengers, but bloated. It also had an epilogue which encouraged you to read Dark Reign, which does nothing to salvage the story at all.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Explain in detail how FC #7 fits with FC #1-6. Remove all of the Morrison-isms and brickabrack - what was the series about?
On Earth there was a month jump between #3 and 4 (I think it's those issues). Outside of Earth it was only a day or two
edit: It's also explained that it's supposed to read that way. Darkseid was falling through time and messing up time/space
Secret Invasion was 8 issues that took place over what, three hours?
It's rare if you haven't read the Kirby source material it was cribbed from. Or CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. Or KINGDOM COME. Or Simonson's THOR run. MIRACLEMAN. Byrne's FANTASTIC FOUR.
Aside from the fact that that's a short list compared to SI drawing from every appearance the Skrulls have ever had since their introduction, none of those stories contain every element present in Final Crisis.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
After it has all been said and done, I feel that the best stories that came out of Final Crisis were some of the Tie-In books.
Revelations
Rogue's Revenge
Superman Beyond
Those were the stories worth reading in FC. The core books were much too garbled and spastic to ever draw me in or make me care.
actually, it was supposed to be, but that would've been too much for issues
tell me what you didn't understand and i'll try and help you make sense of it
I mean, the Earth is wrecked, billions are dead, no one escaped the horrors of Darkseid; will any of that show in the coming months? Are we back to the status quo? Will the people deposited in a different universe stay there? TELL ME!
Assume I did not understand a single thing in the story, and go from there.
See, this would be an interesting story - but I'm inclined to think FC will have minimal-to-zero impact. They'll show people rebuilding a few cities, that'll be about it.
Ultimatum is set to destroy the Ultimate Universe. Does that make it good?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
glad we got that out of the way
Because we would like continuity to matter, knowing that a story changes the medium in which it is told. That makes it more worthwhile. It gives the story more impact.
[EDIT] By the way, continuity is not the sole determining factor of quality, but it certainly adds to it. Ultimatum is pretty bad because of the horrible, soul-rendering shit that happens in it.
i've never seen you make a post that wasn't slandering him in some way
on that note, why are you stirring up shit in this thread anyway?
Woo!
Is it a congo line? I brought party hats!
no he totally loves All Star Superman #6 it's one of his favorite issues in his 23 years of reading comics
you see? twenty three years
that's longer than you've been alive!
Except history has shown us no change is permanent and that the virtue of continuity lies solely in scope of a publisher's universe, not in its capacity for change.
If you want the events you read about to have a permanent impact, then stick to self-contained titles or turn to another medium altogether.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation