I wasn't sure it was fair to call the game racist, especially because the first question that popped into my mind was "if this is racist, how could you make a zombie game in africa without it being racist?"
but you answered that, especially with what you presented as #2 on your list. I didn't even realize there was none of that (at least in the demo I played. maybe it will be present in the full game, but I doubt it. I don't remember anything like that from RE4, at least.)
but yeah basically good job, very reasonable and convincing
I think what a lot of people might not realize is that, when dealing with spaniards and africans as zombies, you do have to do it differently, because they are treated differently by our society and in our history. Like I said, color blindness is not necessarily better or more accurate than accepting difference.
You really do have to be more careful and to go to greater lengths with an African setting because those stereotypes do exist and are harmful, but you can still make the game you want without reinforcing those stereotypes
sdrawkcaB emaN on
0
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
So did anyone else see panel 3 and think of the event in Fallout 3 where you walk into Canterbury Commons and there is a dude who is in a robot suit battling a woman in an insect suit?
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
What is this in reference to?
In any case though, I think racism is one of those things that's a bit bigger and more complex than a dictionary definition can accurately or adequately define. Much like many, many political and philosophical ideas.
Dictionaries, let's remember, are meant to give you just the simple, literal denotive definition so that one may understand the word when it is used. They're not the ultimate authority on defining words like, say, "individual," "nation," "God," "love," "mind," "property," and all manner of other things that are complicated enough to be debated basically forever.
I wasn't sure it was fair to call the game racist, especially because the first question that popped into my mind was "if this is racist, how could you make a zombie game in africa without it being racist?"
but you answered that, especially with what you presented as #2 on your list. I didn't even realize there was none of that (at least in the demo I played. maybe it will be present in the full game, but I doubt it. I don't remember anything like that from RE4, at least.)
but yeah basically good job, very reasonable and convincing
This, except I haven't played the demo. Is there a trailer I can watch that will give me a better idea what we're talking about?
I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
I would imagine there's going to be a character similar to Luis Sera in RE4.
Also, I think something's worth mentioning. In that one article talking about the racist imagery in the game, and mentioned "non-infected" Africans beating something in a sack and dragging a white woman off. I don't know how much of the game they saw, but I'm gonna hazard a guess that those people weren't actually uninfected. At the very start of RE4, you come across a couple of Ganado that look perfectly normal, and then out of nowhere violently attack you. It takes a little while before the Ganado start to look noticeably different from normal people. It's usually just small details--red pupils, bloody and dirty, horrible insects bursting out of their heads, that kind of thing. My guess is that if a character is acting violently, they're going to be infected.
That said, the game definitely has some imagery that comes off as racist out of context. Backwards Name pretty much summed it up, but I don't think we can say with certainty that his suggestions for how they could make the game come off as less racist aren't included. Just have to wait 'n see.
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
the french and british would like to argue with you
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
the french and british would like to argue with you
No we wouldn't. We spent hundreds of years covering that shit up, as far as we, or anyone else is concerned.
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
the french and british would like to argue with you
No we wouldn't. We spent hundreds of years covering that shit up, as far as we, or anyone else is concerned.
It
Never
Happened
I actually have no idea what we're talking about here.
A Wikipedia link or even just an explanation would be pretty rad!
I find it weird that when it involves africans, everyone has to go crazy, but in RE4 when there were spaniards as the infected, no one really gave a damn.
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
the french and british would like to argue with you
No we wouldn't. We spent hundreds of years covering that shit up, as far as we, or anyone else is concerned.
It
Never
Happened
I actually have no idea what we're talking about here.
A Wikipedia link or even just an explanation would be pretty rad!
Nothing happened. Just like I said. Move along, we're friends now nothing to see here.
The_Scarab on
0
I Win Swordfightsall the traits of greatnessstarlight at my feetRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
I would really like this further explained.
How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.
Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?
As much as I would like to continue this conversation I'm sure that eventually the fact that I'm an American white male is going to work against me. Likely at the hands of other American white males, but that's neither here nor there.
Javen on
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of other black characters in RE5 that are black and not zombies. Your partner, for one
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
I would really like this further explained.
How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.
Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?
No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' Westernized speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.
Posts
I wasn't sure it was fair to call the game racist, especially because the first question that popped into my mind was "if this is racist, how could you make a zombie game in africa without it being racist?"
but you answered that, especially with what you presented as #2 on your list. I didn't even realize there was none of that (at least in the demo I played. maybe it will be present in the full game, but I doubt it. I don't remember anything like that from RE4, at least.)
but yeah basically good job, very reasonable and convincing
I think what a lot of people might not realize is that, when dealing with spaniards and africans as zombies, you do have to do it differently, because they are treated differently by our society and in our history. Like I said, color blindness is not necessarily better or more accurate than accepting difference.
You really do have to be more careful and to go to greater lengths with an African setting because those stereotypes do exist and are harmful, but you can still make the game you want without reinforcing those stereotypes
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Because that is what it reminded me of.
What is this in reference to?
In any case though, I think racism is one of those things that's a bit bigger and more complex than a dictionary definition can accurately or adequately define. Much like many, many political and philosophical ideas.
Dictionaries, let's remember, are meant to give you just the simple, literal denotive definition so that one may understand the word when it is used. They're not the ultimate authority on defining words like, say, "individual," "nation," "God," "love," "mind," "property," and all manner of other things that are complicated enough to be debated basically forever.
This, except I haven't played the demo. Is there a trailer I can watch that will give me a better idea what we're talking about?
Well, the whole light-skinned "good" African with Western, white, middle-class accepted modes of speech and behavior is, unfortunately, actually another Hollywood stereotype.
Unless I'm wrong, she's not really presented as in any way similar to or a part of the group of africans that are being turned into zombies, no? So that entire group of people is still dehumanized. What's needed are people who look like them, speak like them, and still humanized and relatable. Having some completely different Westernized, light-skinned black person who doesn't look, act, or speak anything like the people being dehumanized really doesn't help, especially when the only "good" black person conforms to white standards that still plague this country today (like how among most African Americans, as well as Hollywood and the fashion industry, light skin is considered more attractive than dark skin).
Like I said, having a black protagonist doesn't make the problem go away by itself.
Hahahaha :^:
Also, I think something's worth mentioning. In that one article talking about the racist imagery in the game, and mentioned "non-infected" Africans beating something in a sack and dragging a white woman off. I don't know how much of the game they saw, but I'm gonna hazard a guess that those people weren't actually uninfected. At the very start of RE4, you come across a couple of Ganado that look perfectly normal, and then out of nowhere violently attack you. It takes a little while before the Ganado start to look noticeably different from normal people. It's usually just small details--red pupils, bloody and dirty, horrible insects bursting out of their heads, that kind of thing. My guess is that if a character is acting violently, they're going to be infected.
That said, the game definitely has some imagery that comes off as racist out of context. Backwards Name pretty much summed it up, but I don't think we can say with certainty that his suggestions for how they could make the game come off as less racist aren't included. Just have to wait 'n see.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
he wrote all that
i know right
I have a problem
No I know he did. He referred to the article I was referring to.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
That's because there is not a long history of Spaniards being thought of as mindless subhuman savages.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
no.
Everyone else is the problem.
You have the solution.
the french and british would like to argue with you
oh ryan
8-)
No we wouldn't. We spent hundreds of years covering that shit up, as far as we, or anyone else is concerned.
It
Never
Happened
Did you read all of Meiz's posts? They're my favourites.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
A Wikipedia link or even just an explanation would be pretty rad!
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I mean come on people think Americans are always eating and so the zombies have to always hungry and eating humans in the Resident Evil games
Come on Capcom stop stereotyping
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
Nothing happened. Just like I said. Move along, we're friends now nothing to see here.
you mean the one that didn't even exist until after the outcry?
yeah, there is that
What are you nerds fixing on doing about it?
Satans..... hints.....
well, firstly we plan to accept that those who are offended are rightly so
and secondly we are going to play the game anyway
Are any of you complaining about this not going to buy the game for the same reason?
I would really like this further explained.
How come you can't have a black person with middle-class accepted mode of speech? I see this complaint alot when there are black people portrayed.
Because I am not trying to be mean here but if we were to say look percentage wise at say black doctors, the majority of them would come from middle class families as opposed to people from the ghetto. So why is it surprise that they speak where they are from?
Satans..... hints.....
Or lobby the developers about it
I have been complaining.
And I am not going to buy the game for that very reason.
I however have been complaining about the controls though.
MORALS
Satans..... hints.....
Deep down, you know you want to strafe.
Satans..... hints.....
No, what he's saying is that having a black character with more 'relatable' Westernized speech and mannerisms, etc., doesn't help to undo the portrayal as the Africans in the game as mindless/violent/savages, because she is then patently not a part of that group at all.