I really wish I could remember who did this bit, but:
Why are stereotypes always bad? You never hear anyone go, "Oh you know those Mexicans... they can fly!" or "You know those damn Asians... they're full of candy!"
Ok, so when you make assumptions about a Roadhouse outside of Bumfuck Alabama, you're being racist?
Just because it is located in an area where blacks happen to be doesn't mean that it is racist to form an opinion of that area. If there are fucking murders going on outside the YMCA, I'm not racist for not wanting to go to the Y, even if it's located in harlem.
If you avoid the YMCA because it is a locus of crime, that's fine.
If you avoid the YMCA because it's frequented by blacks, and you assume that therefore it is crime-ridden, then it's racist.
Do you see the difference?
Munkus I'd really appreciate an answer to this because I think I phrased this question extremely clearly and we're both on the same page here, in terms of talking about the same thing
Again, you're the one that is assuming that he made an assumption based on race alone and not anything else.
OK, but I have evidence and reason to make that claim.
(1) Bill O'Reilly was at the restaurant with Al Sharpton, at Sharpton's request, due to a battle-of-words between the two over a race-related issue, couching the whole meeting in racial terms.
(2) He was in a restaurant whose patronage is overwhelmingly black, in a historically black area, in a historically black type of restaurant
(3) The assumptions he made included many common negative stereotypes of black people
So, yes I made a positive assertion
I also made that assertion with evidence, well within reasonable bounds.
If you assume the opposite, I'm open to opposing evidence, but I think the assertion I made is logical, reasonable, and well-evidenced.
I really wish I could remember who did this bit, but:
Why are stereotypes always bad? You never hear anyone go, "Oh you know those Mexicans... they can fly!" or "You know those damn Asians... they're full of candy!"
Even "positive" stereotypes, like "Asians are good at math" or "Black dudes have huge wangs" are actually bad, because then those who don't conform to those stereotypes are penalized doubly!
I really wish I could remember who did this bit, but:
Why are stereotypes always bad? You never hear anyone go, "Oh you know those Mexicans... they can fly!" or "You know those damn Asians... they're full of candy!"
Even "positive" stereotypes, like "Asians are good at math" or "Black dudes have huge wangs" are actually bad, because then those who don't conform to those stereotypes are penalized doubly!
I really wish I could remember who did this bit, but:
Why are stereotypes always bad? You never hear anyone go, "Oh you know those Mexicans... they can fly!" or "You know those damn Asians... they're full of candy!"
Even "positive" stereotypes, like "Asians are good at math" or "Black dudes have huge wangs" are actually bad, because then those who don't conform to those stereotypes are penalized doubly!
god damn it backwards I quoting a stand up comic
I quoting a stand up comic? way to be an asian stereotype, bro
I really wish I could remember who did this bit, but:
Why are stereotypes always bad? You never hear anyone go, "Oh you know those Mexicans... they can fly!" or "You know those damn Asians... they're full of candy!"
Even "positive" stereotypes, like "Asians are good at math" or "Black dudes have huge wangs" are actually bad, because then those who don't conform to those stereotypes are penalized doubly!
god damn it backwards I quoting a stand up comic
I quoting a stand up comic? way to be an asian stereotype, bro
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
I like broadway musicals, barbershop, friday, and my avatar is a shaolin beaver.
I am clearly the ideal target for gay black furry media.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Plants do start at the bottom and move steadily up.
Furu on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also, the thing is, lots of black people were offended by O'Reilly's statements.
I don't think, that as whites, who simply don't have the experience of race-based discrimination the way blacks do, especially when one considers the history of race relations in the US, which does still resonate and affect us today (being made fun of by the black kids at your high school really doesn't compare to a whole society stereotyping you, and oppressing your race for hundreds of years, so let's please not go down that road of equivalence), it's not OK for us to decide what a black person is and isn't allowed to get offended about, again excepting incredibly extreme situations. Like someone getting offended because Barack Obama silicone wristbands are black is clearly silly.
Someone being offended by what Bill O'Reilly said is a reasonable logical conclusion. And therefore, he should have at least apologized for his statements, and/or clarified them. Saying things that a reasonable person could find offensive is not OK. I think we should all be able to agree upon that, for the sake of our fellow citizens who are members of persecuted minorities.
There seems to be resistance to accept that different rules apply. That saying something about a white person might be ok, but saying the same thing about a black person might not be. But the reality is, prejudices exist about blacks that do not exist about whites. And more importantly, whites in America have never been discriminated against as a race, or in an institutionalized fashion because of their race, as we are the majority, and have been overrepresented (by pure proportionality) in business, media, and politics, and still are today, and for hundreds of years whites oppressed other minorities to the benefit of whites.
Simply put, because of differences in our history and society, the rules are different sometimes, when it comes to dealing with issues of race and prejudice.
We should be OK with that, because we should be more concerned with doing right by others than with our own convenience. We should be concerned with making sure we are not propagating prejudice down the generations, or in our own society. We should be concerned utmost with moving towards equality of opportunity -- not sameness, not universality, but equality of opportunity.
If we, as whites, who benefited as group from racism for so long, right up to and including the present moment, have to make very small sacrifices to help correct that wrong, shouldn't we?
I think that should be the question we ask ourselves when we talk about race. I don't think we should rush to the defense of people who say things that a reasonable person could find extremely offensive.
sdrawkcaB emaN on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
You know what offends me? The term African-American. Now that is racist.
I ain't a Euromerican. Unless you were born in Africa and living in the states, you are not African-American, dang it.
SEMANTICS
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
As a white person I feel I have a responsibility to feel guilty about any racism ever and must atone for this by seeking it out everywhere and talking really loudly about how I don't agree with racism and how some of my best friends are minorities. I feel this will make up for when Rosa Parks had to sit in the back of a bus. It is my opinion that whitey is a dick and should be made to suffer for his crimes.
I hope those posts aren't in response to my own, or are fakeposts. Otherwise I'm going to be really disappointed and saddened that people could so hugely miss a basic point of compassion for one's fellow man, and putting the interests of society before your own, especially when the cost to you is so small.
I just can't understand anyone who wouldn't have enough empathy to do that.
fun fact: I started that post not realizing that backwards name was making a non-sarcastic version of it at the very same time
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2009
Shit, I stopped reading what you said a while back.
This is a fucking comic thread about a comic where they point out the absurdity of calling something racist based the skin-color of the protagonists and antagonists.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
If we, as whites, who benefited as group from racism for so long, right up to and including the present moment, have to make very small sacrifices to help correct that wrong, shouldn't we?
Simply put, no.
We are all responsible for our own actions. I don't feel bad for something someone else did just because we're the same race. I feel no attachment to my race, no desire to better my race, no desire to defend it, no desire to give a shit about people because of race.
Shit, I stopped reading what you said a while back.
This is a fucking comic thread about a comic where they point out the absurdity of calling something racist based the skin-color of the protagonists and antagonists.
but what's funny is they aren't saying the game isn't racist. They're saying putting in a black team-mate doesn't fix it.
If we, as whites, who benefited as group from racism for so long, right up to and including the present moment, have to make very small sacrifices to help correct that wrong, shouldn't we?
Simply put, no.
We are all responsible for our own actions. I don't feel bad for something someone else did just because we're the same race. I feel no attachment to my race, no desire to better my race, no desire to defend it, no desire to give a shit about people because of race.
But if you see something wrong with your society, even if you have nothing to do with it, but you have the chance to help fix it, you wouldn't?
Shit, I stopped reading what you said a while back.
This is a fucking comic thread about a comic where they point out the absurdity of calling something racist based the skin-color of the protagonists and antagonists.
but what's funny is they aren't saying the game isn't racist. They're saying putting in a black team-mate doesn't fix it.
That's the sense I got from the newspost, anyway.
Man it's a little late to tie this back into the comic and RE5 because pretty much everything you've said in this thread in no way relates to that.
Posts
I'm confused how we got to this.
OK, but I have evidence and reason to make that claim.
(1) Bill O'Reilly was at the restaurant with Al Sharpton, at Sharpton's request, due to a battle-of-words between the two over a race-related issue, couching the whole meeting in racial terms.
(2) He was in a restaurant whose patronage is overwhelmingly black, in a historically black area, in a historically black type of restaurant
(3) The assumptions he made included many common negative stereotypes of black people
So, yes I made a positive assertion
I also made that assertion with evidence, well within reasonable bounds.
If you assume the opposite, I'm open to opposing evidence, but I think the assertion I made is logical, reasonable, and well-evidenced.
Even "positive" stereotypes, like "Asians are good at math" or "Black dudes have huge wangs" are actually bad, because then those who don't conform to those stereotypes are penalized doubly!
So was my high school.
But this conversation started about national media, like movies, in which whites are still the overwhelming majority.
evidence: sdraw tried to steal my burger, and i submit to the court that he was mega high
is that still alright
Me too.
XBox LIVE: Bogestrom | Destiny
PSN: Bogestrom
bet you wish you were super normal, as everyone knows all whites are.
(i am being sassy no one take this seriously or i swear i will be so cross with you)
god damn it backwards I quoting a stand up comic
I quoting a stand up comic? way to be an asian stereotype, bro
(I have no idea what race you are)
mostly white
I am clearly the ideal target for gay black furry media.
that is a pretty bad stereotype for Asians I tell you what
you see a Mexican child you don't just cross the road, you run
XBox LIVE: Bogestrom | Destiny
PSN: Bogestrom
oh my god this is fantastic
well essentially it starts at the bottom and then moves steadily upwards until it reaches the top
and apparently, it is a plant
Plants do start at the bottom and move steadily up.
Just don't drive.
I don't think, that as whites, who simply don't have the experience of race-based discrimination the way blacks do, especially when one considers the history of race relations in the US, which does still resonate and affect us today (being made fun of by the black kids at your high school really doesn't compare to a whole society stereotyping you, and oppressing your race for hundreds of years, so let's please not go down that road of equivalence), it's not OK for us to decide what a black person is and isn't allowed to get offended about, again excepting incredibly extreme situations. Like someone getting offended because Barack Obama silicone wristbands are black is clearly silly.
Someone being offended by what Bill O'Reilly said is a reasonable logical conclusion. And therefore, he should have at least apologized for his statements, and/or clarified them. Saying things that a reasonable person could find offensive is not OK. I think we should all be able to agree upon that, for the sake of our fellow citizens who are members of persecuted minorities.
There seems to be resistance to accept that different rules apply. That saying something about a white person might be ok, but saying the same thing about a black person might not be. But the reality is, prejudices exist about blacks that do not exist about whites. And more importantly, whites in America have never been discriminated against as a race, or in an institutionalized fashion because of their race, as we are the majority, and have been overrepresented (by pure proportionality) in business, media, and politics, and still are today, and for hundreds of years whites oppressed other minorities to the benefit of whites.
Simply put, because of differences in our history and society, the rules are different sometimes, when it comes to dealing with issues of race and prejudice.
We should be OK with that, because we should be more concerned with doing right by others than with our own convenience. We should be concerned with making sure we are not propagating prejudice down the generations, or in our own society. We should be concerned utmost with moving towards equality of opportunity -- not sameness, not universality, but equality of opportunity.
If we, as whites, who benefited as group from racism for so long, right up to and including the present moment, have to make very small sacrifices to help correct that wrong, shouldn't we?
I think that should be the question we ask ourselves when we talk about race. I don't think we should rush to the defense of people who say things that a reasonable person could find extremely offensive.
I ain't a Euromerican. Unless you were born in Africa and living in the states, you are not African-American, dang it.
SEMANTICS
I just can't understand anyone who wouldn't have enough empathy to do that.
This is a fucking comic thread about a comic where they point out the absurdity of calling something racist based the skin-color of the protagonists and antagonists.
seriously, fuck you schmucks, be more me
ok good because I think you're a hugely solid dude geebs and I woulda been hella bummed if you were not down with basic human empathy
So I should be easily offended by anything remotely race related because I possibly had some horribly racist ancestors.
Right.
No.
Simply put, no.
We are all responsible for our own actions. I don't feel bad for something someone else did just because we're the same race. I feel no attachment to my race, no desire to better my race, no desire to defend it, no desire to give a shit about people because of race.
but what's funny is they aren't saying the game isn't racist. They're saying putting in a black team-mate doesn't fix it.
That's the sense I got from the newspost, anyway.
okay
puttin' on a wig
But if you see something wrong with your society, even if you have nothing to do with it, but you have the chance to help fix it, you wouldn't?
Man it's a little late to tie this back into the comic and RE5 because pretty much everything you've said in this thread in no way relates to that.
YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT
THE WORLD HAS RACISM
YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, BECAUSE OF YOUR RACE
DO YOU HELP FIX IT Y/N
IT'S NOT ABOUT GUILT
NOWHERE DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GUILT
MY ANCESTORS ARE ITALIAN IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME HERE POST RECONSTRUCTION BUT I STILL CARE ABOUT FIXING MY SOCIETY CHRIST ON A FUCKING COCK
8-)
white knighting