Figured out the bass issue, apparently turning DSP on adds much more emphasis on bass. Turning it off and setting the EQ to flat or BGM (reduced bass/treble) makes the bass level resonable for music. Will have to try 360 later.
Think i might need a new receiver/amp soon anyway, this one only has RCA inputs/outputs. Will that cause an issue if I am using HDMI from 360 to TV? Or once its going from tv to receiver is rca fine?
Okay, first of all, DSP is the devil. Never ever use it. It's the Photoshop filter of audio processing.
RCA connections for audio are fine, it just means you can't have digital audio. So no DD5.1, DTS, etc. If you only have 2 speakers, you're not missing much anyway. And even with a full 5.1 set-up, RCA connections will get you Dolby Pro-Logic, which isn't terrible.
Basically, don't worry about what sort of signal is getting to the receiver unless you have a 5.1-capable receiver and the full regiment of speakers.
ElJeffe on
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Anyone have an opinion on rear projection DLPs? I'm looking to purchase a large TV and I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to 1) A 2008 Samsung LCD, most likely an LN52A650, 2) The Samsung HL67A750 rear projection DLP with the LED light engine, or 3) wait to see how the 2009 LCDs are received.
Space is not a concern and I don't really care about thinness. The TV I pick will primarily be used for video games and movies. What attracts me to the DLP is the LED light engine, the great price/size ratio, and the possibility for no motion blur, but I'm not as familiar with DLPs as I am with LCDs so I'm hesitating a bit. Here's a few things I could use help with:
-How is the picture quality of a high-end DLP like the HL67A750 compared to a high-end LCD like the Samsung 2008 6 and 7 series? Sharpness, contrast, color, etc. I know that rear projection DLPs aren't as good for viewing at odd angles, but are they at least equal to LCDs in other areas?
-As I mentioned, I have read that DLPs blow LCDs out of the water as far as minimizing motion blur. Is this true? I can see some blur on my current LCD and wouldn't mind getting rid of it. Does the 120Hz refresh rate on Samsung's 2008 LCDs eliminate or drastically reduce motion blur? I don't really care about MotionFlow/AMP/other frame interpolation algorithms because they make things look phony to me; does the 120Hz refresh help mitigate motion blur even with those frame interpolation features turned off?
-How well do DLPs work as computer monitors compared to LCDs? I don't intend to use this TV as a primary monitor, but it would be nice to have a clear picture for PC games, movies, etc.
Basically, is that DLP a good alternative to the LCD I'm looking at, or should I just stick with the LCD? And if I should just stick with LCD, do you think it's worth it to wait for the 2009 models instead? I can get both TVs for about the same price +/- $100ish and I would prefer not to wait, but I can if it looks like there's going to be something drastically improved in the 2009 LCD models.
The Samsung HL67A750 rear projection DLP with the LED light engine
As I've mentioned before, I've watched this exact TV a lot in person and it is incredible. Better than any LCD or plasma I have seen, including other Samsungs. The viewing angles are decent too, by the way. I barely noticed any issues.
I didn't see any motion blur at all. I don't know about using the TV as a computer display, but I would be surprised if it had significant issues other than the obvious (input lag).
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I suggest to everyone that I can to get a Samsung LED DLP as long as they can deal with a TV about a foot deep. It's wonderful technology that a lot of people ignore because it isn't super thin.
It's the best big TV you can get per dollar spent I'd bet.
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
I stopped by Best Buy with my Wall-E blu ray in tow today to test out the DLP. After adjusting the settings to some that I found on AVSforums, the picture was spectacular and I found myself really impressed with it. The Mitsubishi DLP next to the Samsung was running Kung Fu Panda in blu ray and looked great as well, so as a comparison I swapped Wall-E with Kung Fu Panda. It looked just as great on the Samsung DLP, if not better. The only concerns I have with it are the silk screen effect, which I can see but it might not bother me in the long run, and vertical viewing angles for when I stand up to play something like Rock Band or Wii Sports.
At this point I am leaning towards the DLP. I think I am going to try to get one home where I can really test it out my way, and make sure that I buy it from a place where I can return it if I somehow end up unhappy. I don't think I will be buying a 2008 LCD as an alternative if I end up unhappy with it, though...I will just end up kicking myself for buying a CCFL backlit LCD when the LED backlit ones arrive.
I would like to rely on them solely as my receiver/speaker setup currently puts out too much bass for an apartment, the only way to get it manageable is to lower the volume so much that I can't hear very well. All bass boost etc is down and eq is set to flat already.
I am looking at the Samsung LN46A750 vs the 650, the only real difference I care about is the 750 has a subwoofer. I would be primarily gaming with this.
I was surprised at the quality of my 37LG50's built-in speakers--they're not very loud (maybe a bit on the soft side) but the quality is much better than I was expecting.
Then again, I'm guessing it's nothing next to, say, a dedicated audio system, but that would set me back as much as the TV set itself.
So, I just picked up a 46" Sony Bravia KDL S series 1080P LCD tv. I hooked it up to my 360 via the HDMI cable, and I can't seem to get 1080P to work. It scales the TV to 480i mode with everything around the edges chopped off, 1080i works fine though.
Somewhere in the past 30 days Pioneer cut its prices without me noticing. That TV I linked to is generally considered the second best TV for black levels right now, period. Many people will buy this TV over the top-end Samsung 950s or Sony XBR8s. Its big brother the Elite Kuro holds down the title "Best TV on the planet" at pretty much any resource I go to.
At $2,000 and free shipping, I feel very comfortable saying that it is the best 50" TV out there right now. The only possible downside I see is that it IS plasma, so you have burn-in potential, but as I understand it treating it well during the first 200-hour break-in makes this a minimal problem.
Edit: Common across reviews is a sole complaint against this set...there are next to no color adjustment options, and the colors ARE NOT perfect. Most reviews seem to supplement with an immediate note that the picture is still fantastic compared to all others. For those that this is a dealbreaker, the 50" Elite is only $3400 and comes with more calibration options you'll ever need. And it's STILL below the $3800+ 52" Samsung 950 or the obscenely overpriced Sony XBR8.
I hear PC gaming is huge off the coast of Somalia right now.
PSN: TheScrublet
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Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Ordered a Samsung LN46A650 this morning, now I play the waiting game.
How much of an issue is it if my tv stand is a bit on the narrow side?
It's about 26 inches wide, maybe 16 deep, which should be more than enough to hold the base. However the tv will overhang a bit.
I would like to avoid getting a new one if i can, mainly due to cost, and the only ones I seem to find with similar height to mine are much wider (46-48 inches), which would put it partially in front of a hot water baseboard heater.
I am pretty sure my current stand can support a 46 inch lcd weight wise as right now it is holding a 30 inch crt.
Somewhere in the past 30 days Pioneer cut its prices without me noticing. That TV I linked to is generally considered the second best TV for black levels right now, period. Many people will buy this TV over the top-end Samsung 950s or Sony XBR8s. Its big brother the Elite Kuro holds down the title "Best TV on the planet" at pretty much any resource I go to.
At $2,000 and free shipping, I feel very comfortable saying that it is the best 50" TV out there right now. The only possible downside I see is that it IS plasma, so you have burn-in potential, but as I understand it treating it well during the first 200-hour break-in makes this a minimal problem.
Edit: Common across reviews is a sole complaint against this set...there are next to no color adjustment options, and the colors ARE NOT perfect. Most reviews seem to supplement with an immediate note that the picture is still fantastic compared to all others. For those that this is a dealbreaker, the 50" Elite is only $3400 and comes with more calibration options you'll ever need. And it's STILL below the $3800+ 52" Samsung 950 or the obscenely overpriced Sony XBR8.
You could also consider a Samsung PN50A650, blacks are not quite as deep as the Panny you listed, but they are still great, and the color is just as good as the higher priced models, especially post calibration.
You should be able to find it for under $1,600, and at 50 inches with all the adjustment options in the world, it's a great deal.
Also, don't worry about burn in with the newer plasma's, even a break in period is not necessary if your smart with it. Most HD sources(including video games) have built in protection like pixel shift and transparent static HUD's.
The only issue I've ever had was the screen for RockBand2 after you finish a song was up(new years) on the screen static for about an hour. It left IR, but with less then a minute of the scrolling burn in protection tool it was completely gone.
Also have had no issues with tickers or black bars on movies.
Somewhere in the past 30 days Pioneer cut its prices without me noticing. That TV I linked to is generally considered the second best TV for black levels right now, period. Many people will buy this TV over the top-end Samsung 950s or Sony XBR8s. Its big brother the Elite Kuro holds down the title "Best TV on the planet" at pretty much any resource I go to.
At $2,000 and free shipping, I feel very comfortable saying that it is the best 50" TV out there right now. The only possible downside I see is that it IS plasma, so you have burn-in potential, but as I understand it treating it well during the first 200-hour break-in makes this a minimal problem.
Edit: Common across reviews is a sole complaint against this set...there are next to no color adjustment options, and the colors ARE NOT perfect. Most reviews seem to supplement with an immediate note that the picture is still fantastic compared to all others. For those that this is a dealbreaker, the 50" Elite is only $3400 and comes with more calibration options you'll ever need. And it's STILL below the $3800+ 52" Samsung 950 or the obscenely overpriced Sony XBR8.
For what it's worth, you should be able to access all of the Elite calibration settings on a non-Elite Kuro via the service port. You'll need a serial -> USB converter (or a computer that actually has a serial port I suppose...) and some software you should be able to find on avsforum.com. It may void your warranty though, not really sure.
Ordered a Samsung LN46A650 this morning, now I play the waiting game.
How much of an issue is it if my tv stand is a bit on the narrow side?
I had my LN40A650 on too narrow of a stand for a while, it never presented any problems.
For what it's worth, you should be able to access all of the Elite calibration settings on a non-Elite Kuro via the service port. You'll need a serial -> USB converter (or a computer that actually has a serial port I suppose...) and some software you should be able to find on avsforum.com. It may void your warranty though, not really sure.
Unfortunately I've seen a bunch of documentation on AVSforum and elsewhere that suggests that if you want the calibration you buy the Elite. At the end of the day, everything I've seen says that the "problems" with the non-elite are only noticeable when stood up next to the Elite, and that even with the "problems" the non-elite beats the shit out of every other plasma. A relocation reimbursement check should be at my apt now (I'm in CO skiing right now), and my tax refund is coming in this Friday. I am ordering this goddamn TV as soon as I am able. I appreciate the extra feedback about the burn-in "non-issue", I am no longer apprehensive at all about ordering this plasma.
So I borrowed a Spyder 3 from one of my buddies and some ran some tests with HCFR on my Samsung Plasma. I did the default settings on the TV, my adjustments based on the THX calibration from Attack of the Clones, and then calibration settings I found on AVSforums. The only thing I wish I had done was take a before and after picture of what the TV actually looked and not just had the charts.
Luminance
(White line is target)
Default settings were way off
THX helped a little
AVSForums settings where damn near perfect
Gamma
Default almost completely off the screen
THX again a little better
AVS again damn near perfect
RGB Levels
Default, not too terrible but not great
THX, small improvement
AVS, about the same as the others
Blue levels where off is all of them, and I cranked it way down for the AVS settings
Color Temp
Default, once again almost off the screen
THX, once again, small improvement
AVS, better, but not perfect
Final thoughts:
Default settings suck.
THX helps a little, but not much.
AVS settings are pretty great. Getting settings from some one with better skills and better equipment is a big help. Search them for your model number and then browse for calibration settings.
Luminance and gamma showed great improvement and were almost perfect, RGB and Temp not that much, but definitely better.
Unfortunately I've seen a bunch of documentation on AVSforum and elsewhere that suggests that if you want the calibration you buy the Elite. At the end of the day, everything I've seen says that the "problems" with the non-elite are only noticeable when stood up next to the Elite, and that even with the "problems" the non-elite beats the shit out of every other plasma. A relocation reimbursement check should be at my apt now (I'm in CO skiing right now), and my tax refund is coming in this Friday. I am ordering this goddamn TV as soon as I am able. I appreciate the extra feedback about the burn-in "non-issue", I am no longer apprehensive at all about ordering this plasma.
Here is a sample calibration of the 5020FD (third post in the thread) including color space adjustments, which are not available on the non-elite kuros. As I said in my previous post, you need a serial->USB converter and some software (ControlCAL) and you may void your warranty in calibrating the TV in this manner. There may be some additional settings that the non-Elite lacks even with this method, but color space adjustments were far and away the most glaring omission from the non-elite 9G kuros.
So I went ahead and bought my brother's 34'' Sony Wega HDTV. He tells me that he's calibrated it already, so I expect it to at least be fairly well tuned, even if not perfectly, but I can check out AVSforums later(will they really tell me one list of settings to use, given the model number?)
When I was testing out my Xbox last night, right off the bat I was worried, at the opening menu screen. The text on the lower left seemed low res, the yellows seemed washed out, it just didn't look very good. But upon playing Gears of War 2, everything seemed good as far as my layperson's eyes could tell. Does anyone know if the menu screen is just supposed to look like crap, or might that be a glaring indicator that I need to adjust the settings?
And how do I tell when I should be upscaling dvds through HDMI, or through the TV's own ability to do so?
So.... my girlfriend had a freakout the other night and threw her phone across the room, and my LCD happened to be in the way. Now it has a lil' gouge in the screen, and it displays as a white spot. It's very small, but it's there.
Is this going to cost more than a new TV to repair? It's less than a year old and I got an extended warranty, but neither cover accidental damage.
So.... my girlfriend had a freakout the other night and threw her phone across the room, and my LCD happened to be in the way. Now it has a lil' gouge in the screen, and it displays as a white spot. It's very small, but it's there.
Is this going to cost more than a new TV to repair? It's less than a year old and I got an extended warranty, but neither cover accidental damage.
le sigh.
You'll have to call and ask. With current deals, depending on the size of the screen, it could well be cheaper to buy a new one.
ElJeffe on
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ZephosClimbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up.MichiganRegistered Userregular
thats a killer price for the spec's i was looking into, but i'd be so damn nervous about getting a refurb unit.
You're probably fine...at that price level the only thing negative I'd be worried about is a dead pixel.
Edit: Removed a bunch of my original post because I checked that link closer and saw that thing is only warrantied for 3 months. What a load of shit. I'd go ahead and get that $80 1-year. If it hasn't broken in that time frame it's probably ok.
I hear PC gaming is huge off the coast of Somalia right now.
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Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
edited February 2009
Got my Samsung LN46A650 on wednesday. It is magnificent. The black level difference in comparison to my westinghouse 22' lcd is like night and day. I was shocked to see dark movies/games on the Samsung, no crappy halos surrounding people from blacks that aren't quite black enough.
The only thing I have had an issue with so far is calibration. I used a few presets from avsforums, which work fine for more things. However certain games, WoW notably , almost requires its own configuration to make it not look like a neon wonderland.
The lack of config options when using one of the preset entertainment modes is kind of annoying, however I have not noticed significant input lag (which game mode is supposed to cut down on) in online fps games with entertainment mode disabled.
Thanks for the advice and wonderful information in this thread. I will now go back to caressing my tv.
Got my Samsung LN46A650 on wednesday. It is magnificent. The black level difference in comparison to my westinghouse 22' lcd is like night and day. I was shocked to see dark movies/games on the Samsung, no crappy halos surrounding people from blacks that aren't quite black enough.
The only thing I have had an issue with so far is calibration. I used a few presets from avsforums, which work fine for more things. However certain games, WoW notably , almost requires its own configuration to make it not look like a neon wonderland.
The lack of config options when using one of the preset entertainment modes is kind of annoying, however I have not noticed significant input lag (which game mode is supposed to cut down on) in online fps games with entertainment mode disabled.
Thanks for the advice and wonderful information in this thread. I will now go back to caressing my tv.
Goddamn, this is the exact TV I want. So jealous right now....
I got the LN40A650 (or 42?) in August last year, been working awesome, as I upgraded from a 27" poop-tube TV. I also haven't noticed any input delay in the various modes - I think it's mostly what you can notice and if it's something that bothers you.
One thing I found out though is that the bezel is basically taped/glued to the TV - the top right corner started pulling away from the screen. It's not really noticable unless you're standing over the TV and pulling on that corner. Doesn't affect the display or anything else, just kinda dissapointing that its chinsey like that..
Oh yeah, the recent (this was back in August, so there's probably newer ones) calibration posts for the LN<X>A650's look really good... have to take into account what sort of ambient lighting is in your room for them, of course..
So, we might get a new tv with our tax return. We want to get something HD and large-ish, like in the 40 inch range. I don't know very much about newer tvs though. Most of my friends don't know much about the subject either.
So what are the advantages/disadvantages of LCD and plasma TVs? They were priced about the same at the store today.
So, we might get a new tv with our tax return. We want to get something HD and large-ish, like in the 40 inch range. I don't know very much about newer tvs though. Most of my friends don't know much about the subject either.
So what are the advantages/disadvantages of LCD and plasma TVs? They were priced about the same at the store today.
That question has been answered multiple times throughout the thread, so I'd go back and look through it because there's a TON of information. However, to quickly summarize, plasma TVs have no issue with viewing angle whereas even top LCD monitors still suffer if you're not in the prime center seat. Depending on the plasma TV, you *MAY* have to take some steps against burn-in, though this seems to be mostly a dead issue these days. LCDs have to worry about motion lag (that's where all the 120Hz and 240Hz type stuff comes in) whereas plasmas don't have to deal with that. Plasmas tend to need rooms that can control light conditions to prevent glare...LCDs can usually look good even in rooms with lots of sunlight. This is not even comprehensive, I suggest searching the thread for a full explanation.
More to the point, what kind of TV are you looking to get? Are you the kind of person who cares about quality in their TV, or the kind of person who looks at the racks of TVs at BestBuy and really doesn't notice the difference between high-end Samsung/Sonys and the cheaper Vizio knockoffs? If you care about quality enough to buy a brandname, do you care enough to buy the higher end panel of that brandname?
Right now I would make two recommendations to you. The first is to consider grabbing one of the Pioneer plasmas before they disappear off the market. You can find the Pioneer 50" 5020 at amazon for $1900ish and free shipping right now, and it's easily one of the best images on the market. If you want to stay closer to your 40" range, I would suggest looking at the Samsung LCDs. The Samsung ln46a850 is a great screen, and the cheaper 750 and 650 are pretty good too. I would also stay away from Sony unless you find a really good deal on one. The price premiums they charge versus Samsung are obscene.
The scrappy Irvine television company caused heads to turn when it became the No. 1 supplier of flat-panel sets during the second quarter of 2007, much to the dismay of more established players such as Sony Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co.
But a report issued Friday showed that Vizio again upset the TV industry's world order during the last three months of 2008 -- the key holiday shopping season. It snagged the No. 2 spot among the nation's biggest flat-panel TV suppliers, according to iSuppli Corp.
The El Segundo research firm said Vizio's rise showed that value-minded shoppers had opted for its sets, whose prices generally undercut the competition.
"This is an indication that in the present tough economic climate, consumers are becoming less brand conscious and prefer televisions that they perceive to have good picture quality and that are less expensive," said Riddhi Patel, an iSuppli analyst.
During the fourth quarter, Samsung shipped 20.2% of TVs in the U.S., according to iSuppli. Following were Vizio with 14.3%, Sony with 13.5% and Panasonic Corp. with 10.7%.
The gap between Vizio and Sony is less than 1 percentage point, which makes it a very close call.
If shipments to Canada are included, Sony vaults back to No. 2, according to DisplaySearch. Last week, that consulting firm placed Sony at No. 2 in North America for the fourth quarter, with 14.2%, and Vizio at No. 3 with 12.3%.
One thing on which both research firms agree: The television market, which suffered brutal price cuts during the holidays, will continue to face punishing economics this year.
The strain was too great for Pioneer Corp., which last week announced it would exit the plasma TV business. Though it had less than 3% of the plasma market, according to DisplaySearch, Pioneer commanded respect from custom installers of high-end home entertainment systems. That area was considered very lucrative until late last year. Pioneer laid off an undisclosed number of workers at its Long Beach office.
Dutch manufacturer Royal Philips Electronics made a similar move last year, handing over its U.S. TV business to Japanese manufacturer Funai Electric Co., which licensed the Philips brand to sell TVs and other electronics in North America.
Other marginal players that lack either a strong brand or enough capital to ride out the storm could also cut bait in the coming months, said Paul Gagnon, an analyst with DisplaySearch.
No. There are really only three main buying groups. At the high end, you have the av-philes. These are the audiophiles willing to spend upwards of 5-figures on speakers. The group that will buy that $4000+ receiver to go with their $5000-7000 TV. Then there is the discerning-customer group. This group doesn't want cheap crap, but doesn't want to spend that 30% price premium for the extra 2% in performance. This is the group that will buy the "normal" high-end stuff...the $2000 receiver, the $2500-3000 TV. This group will buy the brand name speakers, but won't get the premium line.
Then there is the budget group. This is what most people fall under. That's been borne out since I started following this thread a few months ago when people in here get irritated with advice telling them their tastes aren't good enough. Get outside this forum into the general population, and it's even more obvious. MOST people have absolutely no problem picking the size of their TV and then saying "I want the cheapest one". The offbrand Home-Theater-in-a-Box people. And who can blame them? Look at the most popular TV shows right now...do you really need a $6000 Sony to watch Biggest Loser? Do black levels really matter when your primary TV use is Scrubs and Wii Sports? Pioneers (particularly the Elites) are just about the undisputed kings of displays, but they had no low or middle offerings so when the market crashed they were gone. Vizios are pieces of shit, but they're cheap, FUNCTIONAL pieces of shit.
So, we might get a new tv with our tax return. We want to get something HD and large-ish, like in the 40 inch range. I don't know very much about newer tvs though. Most of my friends don't know much about the subject either.
So what are the advantages/disadvantages of LCD and plasma TVs? They were priced about the same at the store today.
That question has been answered multiple times throughout the thread, so I'd go back and look through it because there's a TON of information. However, to quickly summarize, plasma TVs have no issue with viewing angle whereas even top LCD monitors still suffer if you're not in the prime center seat. Depending on the plasma TV, you *MAY* have to take some steps against burn-in, though this seems to be mostly a dead issue these days. LCDs have to worry about motion lag (that's where all the 120Hz and 240Hz type stuff comes in) whereas plasmas don't have to deal with that. Plasmas tend to need rooms that can control light conditions to prevent glare...LCDs can usually look good even in rooms with lots of sunlight. This is not even comprehensive, I suggest searching the thread for a full explanation.
More to the point, what kind of TV are you looking to get? Are you the kind of person who cares about quality in their TV, or the kind of person who looks at the racks of TVs at BestBuy and really doesn't notice the difference between high-end Samsung/Sonys and the cheaper Vizio knockoffs? If you care about quality enough to buy a brandname, do you care enough to buy the higher end panel of that brandname?
Right now I would make two recommendations to you. The first is to consider grabbing one of the Pioneer plasmas before they disappear off the market. You can find the Pioneer 50" 5020 at amazon for $1900ish and free shipping right now, and it's easily one of the best images on the market. If you want to stay closer to your 40" range, I would suggest looking at the Samsung LCDs. The Samsung ln46a850 is a great screen, and the cheaper 750 and 650 are pretty good too. I would also stay away from Sony unless you find a really good deal on one. The price premiums they charge versus Samsung are obscene.
Do you really expect me to read this entire thread? Forty or fifty pages is a lot of reading.
We are looking at spending around 1000 dollars. Inches wise, we want something between 32 and 42. So that Pioneer screen and the Samsung LN46a850 is about twice what we are looking to spend. So I guess I am the kind of lowly plebeian who buys TVs from department stores or something, God forbid. An off-the-racks and racks buying member of the proletariat.
We watch movies, cable and play vidja games, but we are not "videophiles" and we do not have a huge amount of disposable income. I currently have a ps2, and a Wii that get regular use. At some point, I want to get a 360 or ps3, but that is several months off at least. We will upgrade to Blu-ray at some point, but again that is some time away. I want to get a TV that would be good for quite some time. I am not one for rash purchases or who disposes of those purchases and buys a replacement 2 or 3 years later.
I guess 1080 is the way to go, right? What is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I think p is better right?
I guess plasma is ruled out. LCD seems to have a higher resolution for the same price.
I've heard that Vizio tvs are kind of like playing the lottery. I have friends who have been very satisfied with theirs after calibrating it, but I have also heard about people getting screens with stuck pixels and being stuck with them.
No. There are really only three main buying groups. At the high end, you have the av-philes. These are the audiophiles willing to spend upwards of 5-figures on speakers. The group that will buy that $4000+ receiver to go with their $5000-7000 TV. Then there is the discerning-customer group. This group doesn't want cheap crap, but doesn't want to spend that 30% price premium for the extra 2% in performance. This is the group that will buy the "normal" high-end stuff...the $2000 receiver, the $2500-3000 TV. This group will buy the brand name speakers, but won't get the premium line.
Then there is the budget group. This is what most people fall under. That's been borne out since I started following this thread a few months ago when people in here get irritated with advice telling them their tastes aren't good enough. Get outside this forum into the general population, and it's even more obvious. MOST people have absolutely no problem picking the size of their TV and then saying "I want the cheapest one". The offbrand Home-Theater-in-a-Box people. And who can blame them? Look at the most popular TV shows right now...do you really need a $6000 Sony to watch Biggest Loser? Do black levels really matter when your primary TV use is Scrubs and Wii Sports? Pioneers (particularly the Elites) are just about the undisputed kings of displays, but they had no low or middle offerings so when the market crashed they were gone. Vizios are pieces of shit, but they're cheap, FUNCTIONAL pieces of shit.
Even price point was never Pioneer's primary issue. They were never able to effectively market the fact that they were the best. Guys with silver hair who wear jackets that actually smell like money would walk into Best Buy and come out with a Dynex because the information simply doesn't present itself.
So, we might get a new tv with our tax return. We want to get something HD and large-ish, like in the 40 inch range. I don't know very much about newer tvs though. Most of my friends don't know much about the subject either.
So what are the advantages/disadvantages of LCD and plasma TVs? They were priced about the same at the store today.
That question has been answered multiple times throughout the thread, so I'd go back and look through it because there's a TON of information. However, to quickly summarize, plasma TVs have no issue with viewing angle whereas even top LCD monitors still suffer if you're not in the prime center seat. Depending on the plasma TV, you *MAY* have to take some steps against burn-in, though this seems to be mostly a dead issue these days. LCDs have to worry about motion lag (that's where all the 120Hz and 240Hz type stuff comes in) whereas plasmas don't have to deal with that. Plasmas tend to need rooms that can control light conditions to prevent glare...LCDs can usually look good even in rooms with lots of sunlight. This is not even comprehensive, I suggest searching the thread for a full explanation.
More to the point, what kind of TV are you looking to get? Are you the kind of person who cares about quality in their TV, or the kind of person who looks at the racks of TVs at BestBuy and really doesn't notice the difference between high-end Samsung/Sonys and the cheaper Vizio knockoffs? If you care about quality enough to buy a brandname, do you care enough to buy the higher end panel of that brandname?
Right now I would make two recommendations to you. The first is to consider grabbing one of the Pioneer plasmas before they disappear off the market. You can find the Pioneer 50" 5020 at amazon for $1900ish and free shipping right now, and it's easily one of the best images on the market. If you want to stay closer to your 40" range, I would suggest looking at the Samsung LCDs. The Samsung ln46a850 is a great screen, and the cheaper 750 and 650 are pretty good too. I would also stay away from Sony unless you find a really good deal on one. The price premiums they charge versus Samsung are obscene.
Do you really expect me to read this entire thread? Forty or fifty pages is a lot of reading.
We are looking at spending around 1000 dollars. Inches wise, we want something between 32 and 42. So that Pioneer screen and the Samsung LN46a850 is about twice what we are looking to spend. So I guess I am the kind of lowly plebeian who buys TVs from department stores or something, God forbid. An off-the-racks and racks buying member of the proletariat.
We watch movies, cable and play vidja games, but we are not "videophiles" and we do not have a huge amount of disposable income. I currently have a ps2, and a Wii that get regular use. At some point, I want to get a 360 or ps3, but that is several months off at least. We will upgrade to Blu-ray at some point, but again that is some time away. I want to get a TV that would be good for quite some time. I am not one for rash purchases or who disposes of those purchases and buys a replacement 2 or 3 years later.
I guess 1080 is the way to go, right? What is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I think p is better right?
I guess plasma is ruled out. LCD seems to have a higher resolution for the same price.
I've heard that Vizio tvs are kind of like playing the lottery. I have friends who have been very satisfied with theirs after calibrating it, but I have also heard about people getting screens with stuck pixels and being stuck with them.
$1000 / 3br - Beautiful NE Orlando-Tuscawilla Area A+Schools Gat (Winter Springs) Is the samsung LN46A530 a good TV?
How far do you sit from your TV?
Improvolone on
Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
Currently, about 7 or 8 feet most of the time. The way our room is currently laid out, you can sit any from 2 feet to 12 feet away from it. I have a 6 year old Sony flat front crt thing. It is in the 20 inch diagonal screen size range.
We won't be in this apartment forever though. And we could re-arrange our living room if we wanted.
Currently, about 7 or 8 feet most of the time. The way our room is currently laid out, you can sit any from 2 feet to 12 feet away from it. I have a 6 year old Sony flat front crt thing. It is in the 20 inch diagonal screen size range.
We won't be in this apartment forever though. And we could re-arrange our living room if we wanted.
Your eye won't notice the difference between 1080p and 720p if you're sitting far enough away from the tv. Check out the chart in the OP and try to balance out a nice ration between screen size and price to help make your decision.
Not a sham at all, it just depends on screen size versus viewing distance versus eyesight. I think at 42" and 7-8 feet you might be able to tell the difference; 32", not so much.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Well, I am more interested in getting the best TV for the money. Our tax return is going to be about 1700 I think. We will move several times in the next few years. At least twice, to a new apartment some time soon, and then hopefully into a house. So the viewing layout will change several times as well. I try to not sit any closer than 5 feet, and much prefer about somewhere between 7 and 10 feet.
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Okay, first of all, DSP is the devil. Never ever use it. It's the Photoshop filter of audio processing.
RCA connections for audio are fine, it just means you can't have digital audio. So no DD5.1, DTS, etc. If you only have 2 speakers, you're not missing much anyway. And even with a full 5.1 set-up, RCA connections will get you Dolby Pro-Logic, which isn't terrible.
Basically, don't worry about what sort of signal is getting to the receiver unless you have a 5.1-capable receiver and the full regiment of speakers.
Space is not a concern and I don't really care about thinness. The TV I pick will primarily be used for video games and movies. What attracts me to the DLP is the LED light engine, the great price/size ratio, and the possibility for no motion blur, but I'm not as familiar with DLPs as I am with LCDs so I'm hesitating a bit. Here's a few things I could use help with:
-How is the picture quality of a high-end DLP like the HL67A750 compared to a high-end LCD like the Samsung 2008 6 and 7 series? Sharpness, contrast, color, etc. I know that rear projection DLPs aren't as good for viewing at odd angles, but are they at least equal to LCDs in other areas?
-As I mentioned, I have read that DLPs blow LCDs out of the water as far as minimizing motion blur. Is this true? I can see some blur on my current LCD and wouldn't mind getting rid of it. Does the 120Hz refresh rate on Samsung's 2008 LCDs eliminate or drastically reduce motion blur? I don't really care about MotionFlow/AMP/other frame interpolation algorithms because they make things look phony to me; does the 120Hz refresh help mitigate motion blur even with those frame interpolation features turned off?
-How well do DLPs work as computer monitors compared to LCDs? I don't intend to use this TV as a primary monitor, but it would be nice to have a clear picture for PC games, movies, etc.
Basically, is that DLP a good alternative to the LCD I'm looking at, or should I just stick with the LCD? And if I should just stick with LCD, do you think it's worth it to wait for the 2009 models instead? I can get both TVs for about the same price +/- $100ish and I would prefer not to wait, but I can if it looks like there's going to be something drastically improved in the 2009 LCD models.
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
As I've mentioned before, I've watched this exact TV a lot in person and it is incredible. Better than any LCD or plasma I have seen, including other Samsungs. The viewing angles are decent too, by the way. I barely noticed any issues.
I didn't see any motion blur at all. I don't know about using the TV as a computer display, but I would be surprised if it had significant issues other than the obvious (input lag).
It's the best big TV you can get per dollar spent I'd bet.
I stopped by Best Buy with my Wall-E blu ray in tow today to test out the DLP. After adjusting the settings to some that I found on AVSforums, the picture was spectacular and I found myself really impressed with it. The Mitsubishi DLP next to the Samsung was running Kung Fu Panda in blu ray and looked great as well, so as a comparison I swapped Wall-E with Kung Fu Panda. It looked just as great on the Samsung DLP, if not better. The only concerns I have with it are the silk screen effect, which I can see but it might not bother me in the long run, and vertical viewing angles for when I stand up to play something like Rock Band or Wii Sports.
At this point I am leaning towards the DLP. I think I am going to try to get one home where I can really test it out my way, and make sure that I buy it from a place where I can return it if I somehow end up unhappy. I don't think I will be buying a 2008 LCD as an alternative if I end up unhappy with it, though...I will just end up kicking myself for buying a CCFL backlit LCD when the LED backlit ones arrive.
I was surprised at the quality of my 37LG50's built-in speakers--they're not very loud (maybe a bit on the soft side) but the quality is much better than I was expecting.
Then again, I'm guessing it's nothing next to, say, a dedicated audio system, but that would set me back as much as the TV set itself.
I thought an update fixed these issues years ago.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-PDP-5020FD-50-Inch-1080p-Plasma/dp/B001AAPEDC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1233782339&sr=1-1
Somewhere in the past 30 days Pioneer cut its prices without me noticing. That TV I linked to is generally considered the second best TV for black levels right now, period. Many people will buy this TV over the top-end Samsung 950s or Sony XBR8s. Its big brother the Elite Kuro holds down the title "Best TV on the planet" at pretty much any resource I go to.
At $2,000 and free shipping, I feel very comfortable saying that it is the best 50" TV out there right now. The only possible downside I see is that it IS plasma, so you have burn-in potential, but as I understand it treating it well during the first 200-hour break-in makes this a minimal problem.
Edit: Common across reviews is a sole complaint against this set...there are next to no color adjustment options, and the colors ARE NOT perfect. Most reviews seem to supplement with an immediate note that the picture is still fantastic compared to all others. For those that this is a dealbreaker, the 50" Elite is only $3400 and comes with more calibration options you'll ever need. And it's STILL below the $3800+ 52" Samsung 950 or the obscenely overpriced Sony XBR8.
PSN: TheScrublet
How much of an issue is it if my tv stand is a bit on the narrow side?
It's about 26 inches wide, maybe 16 deep, which should be more than enough to hold the base. However the tv will overhang a bit.
I would like to avoid getting a new one if i can, mainly due to cost, and the only ones I seem to find with similar height to mine are much wider (46-48 inches), which would put it partially in front of a hot water baseboard heater.
I am pretty sure my current stand can support a 46 inch lcd weight wise as right now it is holding a 30 inch crt.
Steam/PSN/XBL/Minecraft / LoL / - Benevicious | WoW - Duckwood - Rajhek
as I still have not pulled the trigger.
You could also consider a Samsung PN50A650, blacks are not quite as deep as the Panny you listed, but they are still great, and the color is just as good as the higher priced models, especially post calibration.
You should be able to find it for under $1,600, and at 50 inches with all the adjustment options in the world, it's a great deal.
Also, don't worry about burn in with the newer plasma's, even a break in period is not necessary if your smart with it. Most HD sources(including video games) have built in protection like pixel shift and transparent static HUD's.
The only issue I've ever had was the screen for RockBand2 after you finish a song was up(new years) on the screen static for about an hour. It left IR, but with less then a minute of the scrolling burn in protection tool it was completely gone.
Also have had no issues with tickers or black bars on movies.
For what it's worth, you should be able to access all of the Elite calibration settings on a non-Elite Kuro via the service port. You'll need a serial -> USB converter (or a computer that actually has a serial port I suppose...) and some software you should be able to find on avsforum.com. It may void your warranty though, not really sure.
I had my LN40A650 on too narrow of a stand for a while, it never presented any problems.
PSN: TheScrublet
Luminance
Default settings were way off
THX helped a little
AVSForums settings where damn near perfect
THX again a little better
AVS again damn near perfect
THX, small improvement
AVS, about the same as the others
Blue levels where off is all of them, and I cranked it way down for the AVS settings
THX, once again, small improvement
AVS, better, but not perfect
Default settings suck.
THX helps a little, but not much.
AVS settings are pretty great. Getting settings from some one with better skills and better equipment is a big help. Search them for your model number and then browse for calibration settings.
Luminance and gamma showed great improvement and were almost perfect, RGB and Temp not that much, but definitely better.
Steam ID: Good Life
Here is a sample calibration of the 5020FD (third post in the thread) including color space adjustments, which are not available on the non-elite kuros. As I said in my previous post, you need a serial->USB converter and some software (ControlCAL) and you may void your warranty in calibrating the TV in this manner. There may be some additional settings that the non-Elite lacks even with this method, but color space adjustments were far and away the most glaring omission from the non-elite 9G kuros.
When I was testing out my Xbox last night, right off the bat I was worried, at the opening menu screen. The text on the lower left seemed low res, the yellows seemed washed out, it just didn't look very good. But upon playing Gears of War 2, everything seemed good as far as my layperson's eyes could tell. Does anyone know if the menu screen is just supposed to look like crap, or might that be a glaring indicator that I need to adjust the settings?
And how do I tell when I should be upscaling dvds through HDMI, or through the TV's own ability to do so?
Is this going to cost more than a new TV to repair? It's less than a year old and I got an extended warranty, but neither cover accidental damage.
le sigh.
You'll have to call and ask. With current deals, depending on the size of the screen, it could well be cheaper to buy a new one.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4337312&Sku=V25-3712
thats a killer price for the spec's i was looking into, but i'd be so damn nervous about getting a refurb unit.
Get an extended warranty.
XBL : lJesse Custerl | MWO: Jesse Custer | Best vid ever. | 2nd best vid ever.
You're probably fine...at that price level the only thing negative I'd be worried about is a dead pixel.
Edit: Removed a bunch of my original post because I checked that link closer and saw that thing is only warrantied for 3 months. What a load of shit. I'd go ahead and get that $80 1-year. If it hasn't broken in that time frame it's probably ok.
PSN: TheScrublet
The only thing I have had an issue with so far is calibration. I used a few presets from avsforums, which work fine for more things. However certain games, WoW notably , almost requires its own configuration to make it not look like a neon wonderland.
The lack of config options when using one of the preset entertainment modes is kind of annoying, however I have not noticed significant input lag (which game mode is supposed to cut down on) in online fps games with entertainment mode disabled.
Thanks for the advice and wonderful information in this thread. I will now go back to caressing my tv.
Steam/PSN/XBL/Minecraft / LoL / - Benevicious | WoW - Duckwood - Rajhek
Goddamn, this is the exact TV I want. So jealous right now....
One thing I found out though is that the bezel is basically taped/glued to the TV - the top right corner started pulling away from the screen. It's not really noticable unless you're standing over the TV and pulling on that corner. Doesn't affect the display or anything else, just kinda dissapointing that its chinsey like that..
Oh yeah, the recent (this was back in August, so there's probably newer ones) calibration posts for the LN<X>A650's look really good... have to take into account what sort of ambient lighting is in your room for them, of course..
Otherwise, I'm looking for any other 32" LCD, and I'm trying to stay under $599. Here's what I've got so far:
$499 LG 32" 32LG20
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10114256&catid=
$579 Toshiba 32" 32AV502U
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10111560&catid=
$599 LG 32" 32LG20 (this one seems to frequently go on sale for $549)
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10100226&catid=
$599 Samsung 32" LN32A450
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10099578&catid=23244
$548 RCA 32" L32HD31
http://thebrick.com/Application/Cart/BuyRoom.asp?TraderID=34DC92B9-3DBD-438F-AA0B-BD0F699D5896&Code=L32HD31&ProductID=16C62C15-C26B-4E94-9356-D14C2B014DE5&Code=E1ABFE9B-E8F8-4B89-94CC-426A2135514A&SellOrderId=E1ABFE9B-E8F8-4B89-94CC-426A2135514A&CategoryID=42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B&SiteCode=EN&CategoryTracking=7BE068EA-7944-4C60-B5D7-45BBB6903379%2CAA5EB354-6919-4875-A39A-9B7174523350%2C42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B
$578 32" BRAVIA L-Series LCD
http://thebrick.com/Application/Cart/BuyRoom.asp?TraderID=34DC92B9-3DBD-438F-AA0B-BD0F699D5896&Code=KDL32L400&ProductID=A83852C9-0D9B-43BD-933B-12E06B9023F5&Code=4A02BFA6-8548-415E-AE63-385AF0013BB4&SellOrderId=4A02BFA6-8548-415E-AE63-385AF0013BB4&CategoryID=42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B&SiteCode=EN&CategoryTracking=7BE068EA-7944-4C60-B5D7-45BBB6903379%2CAA5EB354-6919-4875-A39A-9B7174523350%2C42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B
$598 32" BRAVIA M-Series LCD
http://thebrick.com/Application/Cart/BuyRoom.asp?TraderID=34DC92B9-3DBD-438F-AA0B-BD0F699D5896&Code=KDL32M400&ProductID=F41E8630-A7E4-45A7-9C48-815BAFAAB5DA&Code=9981EED9-48C7-4DBE-851C-5A2E4FA96AEE&SellOrderId=9981EED9-48C7-4DBE-851C-5A2E4FA96AEE&CategoryID=42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B&SiteCode=EN&CategoryTracking=7BE068EA-7944-4C60-B5D7-45BBB6903379%2CAA5EB354-6919-4875-A39A-9B7174523350%2C42978BDC-8C3D-46B4-AAE5-C51AE13E898B
Any opinions?
What's the difference between the Bravia M series and L series?
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889112020
I know dick about tvs, but I figure someone might be able to make use of this information.
So what are the advantages/disadvantages of LCD and plasma TVs? They were priced about the same at the store today.
That question has been answered multiple times throughout the thread, so I'd go back and look through it because there's a TON of information. However, to quickly summarize, plasma TVs have no issue with viewing angle whereas even top LCD monitors still suffer if you're not in the prime center seat. Depending on the plasma TV, you *MAY* have to take some steps against burn-in, though this seems to be mostly a dead issue these days. LCDs have to worry about motion lag (that's where all the 120Hz and 240Hz type stuff comes in) whereas plasmas don't have to deal with that. Plasmas tend to need rooms that can control light conditions to prevent glare...LCDs can usually look good even in rooms with lots of sunlight. This is not even comprehensive, I suggest searching the thread for a full explanation.
More to the point, what kind of TV are you looking to get? Are you the kind of person who cares about quality in their TV, or the kind of person who looks at the racks of TVs at BestBuy and really doesn't notice the difference between high-end Samsung/Sonys and the cheaper Vizio knockoffs? If you care about quality enough to buy a brandname, do you care enough to buy the higher end panel of that brandname?
Right now I would make two recommendations to you. The first is to consider grabbing one of the Pioneer plasmas before they disappear off the market. You can find the Pioneer 50" 5020 at amazon for $1900ish and free shipping right now, and it's easily one of the best images on the market. If you want to stay closer to your 40" range, I would suggest looking at the Samsung LCDs. The Samsung ln46a850 is a great screen, and the cheaper 750 and 650 are pretty good too. I would also stay away from Sony unless you find a really good deal on one. The price premiums they charge versus Samsung are obscene.
PSN: TheScrublet
Vizio snags No. 2 spot in flat-screen TV sales in 4th quarter of 2008.
No. There are really only three main buying groups. At the high end, you have the av-philes. These are the audiophiles willing to spend upwards of 5-figures on speakers. The group that will buy that $4000+ receiver to go with their $5000-7000 TV. Then there is the discerning-customer group. This group doesn't want cheap crap, but doesn't want to spend that 30% price premium for the extra 2% in performance. This is the group that will buy the "normal" high-end stuff...the $2000 receiver, the $2500-3000 TV. This group will buy the brand name speakers, but won't get the premium line.
Then there is the budget group. This is what most people fall under. That's been borne out since I started following this thread a few months ago when people in here get irritated with advice telling them their tastes aren't good enough. Get outside this forum into the general population, and it's even more obvious. MOST people have absolutely no problem picking the size of their TV and then saying "I want the cheapest one". The offbrand Home-Theater-in-a-Box people. And who can blame them? Look at the most popular TV shows right now...do you really need a $6000 Sony to watch Biggest Loser? Do black levels really matter when your primary TV use is Scrubs and Wii Sports? Pioneers (particularly the Elites) are just about the undisputed kings of displays, but they had no low or middle offerings so when the market crashed they were gone. Vizios are pieces of shit, but they're cheap, FUNCTIONAL pieces of shit.
PSN: TheScrublet
Do you really expect me to read this entire thread? Forty or fifty pages is a lot of reading.
We are looking at spending around 1000 dollars. Inches wise, we want something between 32 and 42. So that Pioneer screen and the Samsung LN46a850 is about twice what we are looking to spend. So I guess I am the kind of lowly plebeian who buys TVs from department stores or something, God forbid. An off-the-racks and racks buying member of the proletariat.
We watch movies, cable and play vidja games, but we are not "videophiles" and we do not have a huge amount of disposable income. I currently have a ps2, and a Wii that get regular use. At some point, I want to get a 360 or ps3, but that is several months off at least. We will upgrade to Blu-ray at some point, but again that is some time away. I want to get a TV that would be good for quite some time. I am not one for rash purchases or who disposes of those purchases and buys a replacement 2 or 3 years later.
I guess 1080 is the way to go, right? What is the difference between 1080p and 1080i? I think p is better right?
I guess plasma is ruled out. LCD seems to have a higher resolution for the same price.
I've heard that Vizio tvs are kind of like playing the lottery. I have friends who have been very satisfied with theirs after calibrating it, but I have also heard about people getting screens with stuck pixels and being stuck with them.
Is the samsung LN46A530 a good TV?
We won't be in this apartment forever though. And we could re-arrange our living room if we wanted.
Your eye won't notice the difference between 1080p and 720p if you're sitting far enough away from the tv. Check out the chart in the OP and try to balance out a nice ration between screen size and price to help make your decision.