I was thinking about why I got a vote for me, when it hit me: the village is only considered good because they're the majority.
With conversion mechanics, if you have the same number of people you started with, but have a majority on the Mafia side, then wouldn't the village then be considered evil? I mean, you say one thing now, but who knows how you'll feel in the near future? If you indiscriminately attack people who you view as your enemies, you might end up weakening yourself if you end up having to change sides.
Whether or not the two sides' views can coexist is another matter entirely: perhaps it is necessary to eliminate the few for the benefit of many. But which side could be considered 'the few' or 'the many' can change at any moment. How will we ever know we did the right thing if we're not even in charge of which point of view we adopt?
Hell, when it comes down to it, we could choose to not kill each other at all, and cooperate in getting one side to convert to the other. That way, everyone lives, and we all win. Isn't that the most basic end we all seek? Does anyone else believe this could ever be possible?
That's maverick talk that is.
!John McCain
That made me chuckle. All the other attempts at refuting my statement were downright infantile, however.
If you wanted to argue against what I said, the train of thought I was thinking someone would use is that it's not about surviving, it's about having fun. Winning has absolutely no appeal if it's a foregone conclusion. If it were, what'd be the point of playing? The only reason I brought it up was because it makes sense in its own way, and tells us a little bit about ourselves as a species. I was hoping someone would catch on and start some kind of philosophical debate with me.
And while it might be kind of funny to see how long it would last in practice, I would not be arguing for it because I believe in it, but because it was thematic to the phalla, and it might liven up the thread a bit. Instead I get some weak-ass insults thrown at me. I believe we can do better than that, gentlemen.
So how about we make an effort this time, huh? Why don't we actually start enjoying ourselves as a group by bringing up relevant discussions and not shut down differences in thinking with name-calling, as it tends to slay interesting conversation.
I thought my reasons against were well thought out and pointed to the impracticality of the idea. But if you are going to throw insults, then I shall call you out as the commie bastard that you are and be done with it!
Well, in our case he's actually right (I assume). But really The_Reflection, couldn't you have been nice and been quiet? Can you imagine how excited I would have been when Kay died after I said I was going to kill him twice? I'd have had such fun!
Well, in our case he's actually right (I assume). But really The_Reflection, couldn't you have been nice and been quiet? Can you imagine how excited I would have been when Kay died after I said I was going to kill him twice? I'd have had such fun!
Well, in our case he's actually right (I assume). But really The_Reflection, couldn't you have been nice and been quiet? Can you imagine how excited I would have been when Kay died after I said I was going to kill him twice? I'd have had such fun!
Sorry Kime, I had to get my reveal on
See above for how much I care! Grrrrr!
(Yeah just kidding, I understand, of course. Would've been pretty cool though if you were quiet :P.)
I thought my reasons against were well thought out and pointed to the impracticality of the idea. But if you are going to throw insults, then I shall call you out as the commie bastard that you are and be done with it!
Fair enough. To your statements, I say that if you convert the opposing team which it is your objective to kill, you've still removed that faction from play. It's essentially the same thing, except that you strengthen your own team while you're at it.
You seem to be talking about some sort of game theory thing here, something like
Both factions cooperate = everyone lives happily ever after.
One faction cooperates, the other does not = cooperating faction gets wrecked.
Neither faction cooperates = Business as usual.
So Prisoner Dilemma I guess? And you have to consider that cooperation between factions might go against the spirit of the game. If I understand the Mega Man X plot properly, the Mavericks and Maverick Hunters have irreconcilable differences in philosophy that would preclude them from working together in this manner. Whether that has any bearing on this phalla is up to debate.
I like that you brought this up. I didn't actually mention that trying to cooperate in that manner would break down immediately because not everyone can agree to do so, and if someone was, say vigged, it would revert back to what we were initially doing: trying to find a minority by guesswork and reasoning.
So yes, the prisoner dilemma is very relevant to what I was saying. And like I mentioned earlier, a game without conflict can't really be called a game anyway, as it would defeat the purpose of why games exist.
To expand on the Mega Man X lore, one of the reasons Mavericks even exist is because of a virus introduced by Sigma (intended to be some sort of super being) to revolt against their human creators. The reploids themselves are human creations that are intended to blur the line between man and machine. They have emotions, they can reason, and share enough physical characteristics with humans (at least in an animated medium) that we can empathize with them.
However, they became Mavericks against their will. It was, in every sense of the word, a conversion mechanic. The question is are we supposed to feel sorry for them? They are technically machines, and are supposed to emulate humans, but at what point does emulation cease being mere copying? They can function independently of their creators. Our own bodies have emotions and processes that are just electrical signals and chemical reactions, so what makes them any more real than, say Zero's?
I have more I can say, but I'd like to hear what others think about this.
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warbanWho the Hoof do you think we are?Registered Userregular
edited February 2009
Its Ok The_Reflection, I role blocked Kime tonight anyway.
I like that you brought this up. I didn't actually mention that trying to cooperate in that manner would break down immediately because not everyone can agree to do so, and if someone was, say vigged, it would revert back to what we were initially doing: trying to find a minority by guesswork and reasoning.
So yes, the prisoner dilemma is very relevant to what I was saying. And like I mentioned earlier, a game without conflict can't really be called a game anyway, as it would defeat the purpose of why games exist.
To expand on the Mega Man X lore, one of the reasons Mavericks even exist is because of a virus introduced by Sigma (intended to be some sort of super being) to revolt against their human creators. The reploids themselves are human creations that are intended to blur the line between man and machine. They have emotions, they can reason, and share enough physical characteristics with humans (at least in an animated medium) that we can empathize with them.
However, they became Mavericks against their will. It was, in every sense of the word, a conversion mechanic. The question is are we supposed to feel sorry for them? They are technically machines, and are supposed to emulate humans, but at what point does emulation cease being mere copying? They can function independently of their creators. Our own bodies have emotions and processes that are just electrical signals and chemical reactions, so what makes them any more real than, say Zero's?
I have more I can say, but I'd like to hear what others think about this.
The thing I find interesting about conversion mechanics is they can introduce an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mindset. If you suspect that the converting team is going to win, and you intend to be on the winning team, then you will try to find some way to make yourself a tempting target for conversion without doing it heavy-handedly enough that it becomes obvious and you get voted off.
I really wish I knew more about the Mega man X line, and I'll probably end up catching up on it a bit through wikipedia or something. I feel that while probably not strictly necessary, having a basic idea of the different characters and such would be pretty helpful in this phalla.
Also, the idea of working together in a phalla reminds me of the Fallout Phalla from a bit back where there actually ended up being no factions until the end of the game, where players made their own teams based on ideologies rather than being assigned a role. You had the group that wanted to storm in and kill a bunch of NPC men, women, and children, a group that preferred to kill off their fellow players rather than the NPCs, and a final conscientious objector style group that refused to kill NPCs, but also refused to kill their companions whom they had played the game with up to that point.
Maverick Hunter HQ: Attention all reploids, we have detected several thermal anomalies in the outlying regions of Abel City. It seems that some of you have decided to take matters into your own hands, this is highly inadvisable as our intelligence is severely compromised, please refrain from further altercations, Maverick Hunter HQ assumes responsibility for your security. A Maverick Hunter team will be on hand to assist you in whatever way you might need. Repeat: Please stay in your designated areas, a Maverick Hunter team will assist you shortly.
X had his orders, Volt Catfish was to be arrested under suspicion of being a Maverick. The Catfish worked as the power regulation manager at a hydro electric dam built in the waterfalls on the west end of Abel City. In the wake of the missile crisis, Reploids all over had turned to protecting themselves, turning their workplaces into veritable fortresses. Volt Catfish was no different. X had to navigate a treacherous underwater maze filled with deadly spikes and defensive systems before he was finally able to corner Volt Catfish in his lair.
“Volt Catfish, by the authority granted to my by the Maverick Hunters, I place you under arrest for your suspected involvement in this past missile crisis. Please do not resist”
“You’re a fool, X, if you think I’ll just come quietly. Long have I known that you Maverick Hunters were nothing but petty thugs, and now you’ve just proven it! I’m no Maverick, I had nothing to do with this, but my protests won’t stop you, will they? I know what they do to “suspected” mavericks, X, and no, I will NOT come quietly. I won’t be manipulated as easily as you are!”
With that, Volt Catfish charged his electrodes, firing an arc at the beleaguered X. Having no choice, X carried out his orders. After an arduous fight, Volt Catfish finally fell to X’s Arm Cannon.
“Y…You… aren’t like us… X… You have… the ability… to truly feel… and think… for yourself… don’t… let them take… advan….”
And with that, Volt Catfish went offline.
Elsewhere, Armored Armadillo was finding himself under siege. He couldn't get a clear look at his attackers as he retreated deep within his lair, in the hopes that the various traps he had set up would hold them off. He had just managed to collect himself when he heard the gate to his private room *chink* open. Having nowhere to turn, Armored Armadillo steadied himself for battle.
“Hmpf, they send three when one would suffice? I suppose I can take some measure of pride in that. If you think I’ll just lay down and die, however, you’re sadly mistaken.”
His assailants were stoic, offering no reasoning for their attack. Armored Armadillo’s Armor held for a time, however, but the battle was wearing on him. Overwhelmed, he fell to a knee.
“Come then, finish what you came here to do”
“Not so fast, friends”
A blue blur zoomed in between Armored Armadillo and his attackers. Armored Armadillo’s had difficulty focusing on the figure before him.
“Storm Eagle? What…?”
“Don’t worry Armadillo my friend, you won’t have to face these creeps alone. I brought some help, thought it might even the odds a little”
From the corner of his eye, Armored Armadillo saw Shield Sheldon roll into view.
“Allright then! Now THIS is a fight!” He exclaimed, clacking his large shell-shaped shields.
Neon Tiger stepped forward.
“Outta the way, Shelly, this one’s a Maverick, it’s written all over his face! Get out of the way and you won’t get hurt!”
“Please, those puny claws of yours couldn’t hurt me if you tried! Let’s see what you got!”
Storm Eagle turned to Armored Armadillo: “Come, friend, you’re wounded, I’ll take you to safety while Sheldon holds them off”
But the battle below wasn’t going well for the large shelled Reploid. Hopelessly outnumbered, Sheldon looked up to assure himself of Storm Eagle and Armored Armadillo’s escape. Satisfied that they were out of harm’s way, he dove into the fray one final time.
Meanwhile Storm Eagle was flying over the cliffs below, his charge clutched in his talons.
“Just a while further, my friend, we’ll get you awa….”
It was then that Storm Eagle noticed the laser sight shining brightly on his talon.
“Storm Eagle, what is…”
Storm Eagle could not answer his friend, he could only watch helplessly as his charge slipped from his grasp and was dashed apart on the cliffs below.
Down below, Neon Tiger was exulting in his victory.
“Ha ha! Did you see that shot! That had to be one in a million!”
“Eh, I’ve seen better… here… let me show you.”
“Wha…” Before he could finish his thoughts, Neon Tiger’s head was turned into nothing more but a pile of loose circuitry.
The following day, survey teams from Maverick Hunter HQ scanned the areas where the highest levels of thermal activity were detected.
Among the wreckage, the following bodies were found:
Posts
I thought my reasons against were well thought out and pointed to the impracticality of the idea. But if you are going to throw insults, then I shall call you out as the commie bastard that you are and be done with it!
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It's over. At least I think it's over.
dont try and jump on my vig sir
Isn't this where the eerie music starts playing and the bad guy you thought was dead is standing right behind you!
But. . .but. . .
I was first!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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I know whose stage you picked last summer!
but im the one with the actual ability to kill.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Sorry Kime, I had to get my reveal on
See above for how much I care! Grrrrr!
(Yeah just kidding, I understand, of course. Would've been pretty cool though if you were quiet :P.)
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Win win!
haha that's terrible
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wasn't too clear what he said, but "gimp" was implied.
Fair enough. To your statements, I say that if you convert the opposing team which it is your objective to kill, you've still removed that faction from play. It's essentially the same thing, except that you strengthen your own team while you're at it.
I like that you brought this up. I didn't actually mention that trying to cooperate in that manner would break down immediately because not everyone can agree to do so, and if someone was, say vigged, it would revert back to what we were initially doing: trying to find a minority by guesswork and reasoning.
So yes, the prisoner dilemma is very relevant to what I was saying. And like I mentioned earlier, a game without conflict can't really be called a game anyway, as it would defeat the purpose of why games exist.
To expand on the Mega Man X lore, one of the reasons Mavericks even exist is because of a virus introduced by Sigma (intended to be some sort of super being) to revolt against their human creators. The reploids themselves are human creations that are intended to blur the line between man and machine. They have emotions, they can reason, and share enough physical characteristics with humans (at least in an animated medium) that we can empathize with them.
However, they became Mavericks against their will. It was, in every sense of the word, a conversion mechanic. The question is are we supposed to feel sorry for them? They are technically machines, and are supposed to emulate humans, but at what point does emulation cease being mere copying? They can function independently of their creators. Our own bodies have emotions and processes that are just electrical signals and chemical reactions, so what makes them any more real than, say Zero's?
I have more I can say, but I'd like to hear what others think about this.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Haha Rend if you did, you are my hero.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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The thing I find interesting about conversion mechanics is they can introduce an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mindset. If you suspect that the converting team is going to win, and you intend to be on the winning team, then you will try to find some way to make yourself a tempting target for conversion without doing it heavy-handedly enough that it becomes obvious and you get voted off.
I really wish I knew more about the Mega man X line, and I'll probably end up catching up on it a bit through wikipedia or something. I feel that while probably not strictly necessary, having a basic idea of the different characters and such would be pretty helpful in this phalla.
Also, the idea of working together in a phalla reminds me of the Fallout Phalla from a bit back where there actually ended up being no factions until the end of the game, where players made their own teams based on ideologies rather than being assigned a role. You had the group that wanted to storm in and kill a bunch of NPC men, women, and children, a group that preferred to kill off their fellow players rather than the NPCs, and a final conscientious objector style group that refused to kill NPCs, but also refused to kill their companions whom they had played the game with up to that point.
It was very surreal.
Maverick Hunter HQ: Attention all reploids, we have detected several thermal anomalies in the outlying regions of Abel City. It seems that some of you have decided to take matters into your own hands, this is highly inadvisable as our intelligence is severely compromised, please refrain from further altercations, Maverick Hunter HQ assumes responsibility for your security. A Maverick Hunter team will be on hand to assist you in whatever way you might need. Repeat: Please stay in your designated areas, a Maverick Hunter team will assist you shortly.
X had his orders, Volt Catfish was to be arrested under suspicion of being a Maverick. The Catfish worked as the power regulation manager at a hydro electric dam built in the waterfalls on the west end of Abel City. In the wake of the missile crisis, Reploids all over had turned to protecting themselves, turning their workplaces into veritable fortresses. Volt Catfish was no different. X had to navigate a treacherous underwater maze filled with deadly spikes and defensive systems before he was finally able to corner Volt Catfish in his lair.
“Volt Catfish, by the authority granted to my by the Maverick Hunters, I place you under arrest for your suspected involvement in this past missile crisis. Please do not resist”
“You’re a fool, X, if you think I’ll just come quietly. Long have I known that you Maverick Hunters were nothing but petty thugs, and now you’ve just proven it! I’m no Maverick, I had nothing to do with this, but my protests won’t stop you, will they? I know what they do to “suspected” mavericks, X, and no, I will NOT come quietly. I won’t be manipulated as easily as you are!”
With that, Volt Catfish charged his electrodes, firing an arc at the beleaguered X. Having no choice, X carried out his orders. After an arduous fight, Volt Catfish finally fell to X’s Arm Cannon.
“Y…You… aren’t like us… X… You have… the ability… to truly feel… and think… for yourself… don’t… let them take… advan….”
And with that, Volt Catfish went offline.
Elsewhere, Armored Armadillo was finding himself under siege. He couldn't get a clear look at his attackers as he retreated deep within his lair, in the hopes that the various traps he had set up would hold them off. He had just managed to collect himself when he heard the gate to his private room *chink* open. Having nowhere to turn, Armored Armadillo steadied himself for battle.
“Hmpf, they send three when one would suffice? I suppose I can take some measure of pride in that. If you think I’ll just lay down and die, however, you’re sadly mistaken.”
His assailants were stoic, offering no reasoning for their attack. Armored Armadillo’s Armor held for a time, however, but the battle was wearing on him. Overwhelmed, he fell to a knee.
“Come then, finish what you came here to do”
“Not so fast, friends”
A blue blur zoomed in between Armored Armadillo and his attackers. Armored Armadillo’s had difficulty focusing on the figure before him.
“Storm Eagle? What…?”
“Don’t worry Armadillo my friend, you won’t have to face these creeps alone. I brought some help, thought it might even the odds a little”
From the corner of his eye, Armored Armadillo saw Shield Sheldon roll into view.
“Allright then! Now THIS is a fight!” He exclaimed, clacking his large shell-shaped shields.
Neon Tiger stepped forward.
“Outta the way, Shelly, this one’s a Maverick, it’s written all over his face! Get out of the way and you won’t get hurt!”
“Please, those puny claws of yours couldn’t hurt me if you tried! Let’s see what you got!”
Storm Eagle turned to Armored Armadillo: “Come, friend, you’re wounded, I’ll take you to safety while Sheldon holds them off”
But the battle below wasn’t going well for the large shelled Reploid. Hopelessly outnumbered, Sheldon looked up to assure himself of Storm Eagle and Armored Armadillo’s escape. Satisfied that they were out of harm’s way, he dove into the fray one final time.
Meanwhile Storm Eagle was flying over the cliffs below, his charge clutched in his talons.
“Just a while further, my friend, we’ll get you awa….”
It was then that Storm Eagle noticed the laser sight shining brightly on his talon.
“Storm Eagle, what is…”
Storm Eagle could not answer his friend, he could only watch helplessly as his charge slipped from his grasp and was dashed apart on the cliffs below.
Down below, Neon Tiger was exulting in his victory.
“Ha ha! Did you see that shot! That had to be one in a million!”
“Eh, I’ve seen better… here… let me show you.”
“Wha…” Before he could finish his thoughts, Neon Tiger’s head was turned into nothing more but a pile of loose circuitry.
The following day, survey teams from Maverick Hunter HQ scanned the areas where the highest levels of thermal activity were detected.
Among the wreckage, the following bodies were found:
Armored Armadillo
Blaze Heatnix
Neon Tiger
Shield Sheldon
Vanishing Gungaroo
Volt Catfish
Wire Sponge
The following players have been eliminated.
B:L
Doxa
Ianator
Kay
Shorn Scrotum Man
Warban
WilDPanthA05
PMs to follow
It was excellent narration though
OoOOoOoOOOOOo
1 outta 5
At least we got one
...
There better not be death mechanics in this game...
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Are trying to say that teh_reflection is X?