And let me ask you, what do you think people like Jimmy 'the stabber' Malone will do when his marijuana business is now tits up thanks to legalization?
Someone who wants to make money selling drugs and who doesn't care how dangerous the drug is is already selling hard drugs, because pot has a much worse profit margin than crack, heroin, or meth. Hell, Jimmy would be making much better money selling black market OxyContin than he ever would selling pot.
Drug dealers are for the most part selling all sorts of drugs, whichever they happen to have lying around, cut with whatever they fancy for their margins. They just use different fronts for Marijuana or Crack or whatever. The local high dude you see selling Marijuana probably got it from someone more dangerous, who got it from someone more dangerous and so on. Unless he grew it himself, which is highly unlikely, the money goes back to someone you don't want making it. Gangs do make significant cash from Marijuana, furthermore, their unfettered access to it is useful for them as a way to recruit new members.
Amazing the way this thread flits around like a moth with ADD. Are some states in the US more louche when it comes to the weed compared to others?
And also the real forthcoming problemos (which is Mexican for problems) will surely be resource and sex wars. The two emerging heavy hitters India and China have a massive hunger for the things we take for granted like plastic bags and a decent choice of whom we'd like to bang; whereas they have scant resources of both, due to their obsession with having lots of sons, very few daughters and fuck all oil.
Sex wars.
I don't think Mexico needs to worry about Chinese invasion forces stealing their daughters quite yet...
Amazing the way this thread flits around like a moth with ADD. Are some states in the US more louche when it comes to the weed compared to others?
And also the real forthcoming problemos (which is Mexican for problems) will surely be resource and sex wars. The two emerging heavy hitters India and China have a massive hunger for the things we take for granted like plastic bags and a decent choice of whom we'd like to bang; whereas they have scant resources of both, due to their obsession with having lots of sons, very few daughters and fuck all oil.
Sex wars.
I don't think Mexico needs to worry about Chinese invasion forces stealing their daughters quite yet...
The point is that we have existing evil corporations that would gladly crush the upstart cartels if it came to being able to legally sell drugs to americans.
Well, yes our corporations are quite evil, but they are not Drug Cartel evil for the most part.
I respectfully disagree. Just because there isn't a profit incentive to shoot up the police station because this is the USA and not Thunderdome doesn't mean that our petroleum, tobacco, and pharmaceutical companies would feel bad about it.
Well of course they wouldn't corporations don't have emotions, they are engines which exist to make money for their shareholders and owners. They have morals only within the grounds it is profitable to do so. However, when was the last time Coca Cola corporation heavies came round and killed you for drinking Pepsi?
Actually, I think that post was a joke. You're still right, of course.
No he's quite serious. He doesn't value human life and thinks active steps should be taken to reduce the population.
Actually that post was a joke. I would love to see our population balanced through birth control as opposed to say lining up 60% of the worlds population and blasting them to the fertile fields of pluto. However currently that does not appear to be a possibility.
Our way of life is unsustainable, eventually we will deplete needed resources and then we are likely looking at a mass die off. Unless we find renewable sources of energy that we can suspend from the sky to avoid taking up precious, precious land needed to provide housing for the masses.
So that said the value of human life is currently rather low. When we can extract memories and experiences from people to share with others we might actually see a bit of a jump in the market. Human experience would sell rather well. I could always lie and say that human life is valuable while doing nothing to better the human condition, enjoying the comforts I have while people the world over suffer, sitting back and talking about how each life should be cherished but doing diddly squat about the ills of the world. Personally I prefer to care for individuals, and do what I can at that level.
Are you saying we should not take steps to reduce the population?
The point is that we have existing evil corporations that would gladly crush the upstart cartels if it came to being able to legally sell drugs to americans.
Well, yes our corporations are quite evil, but they are not Drug Cartel evil for the most part.
I respectfully disagree. Just because there isn't a profit incentive to shoot up the police station because this is the USA and not Thunderdome doesn't mean that our petroleum, tobacco, and pharmaceutical companies would feel bad about it.
Well of course they wouldn't corporations don't have emotions, they are engines which exist to make money for their shareholders and owners. They have morals only within the grounds it is profitable to do so. However, when was the last time Coca Cola corporation heavies came round and killed you for drinking Pepsi?
Corporations cannot be good or evil, which is why we have laws which apply to them and distinguish a responsible company from one who will be shut down by the government.
Max Barry’s novel “Jennifer Government” is set in a futuristic capitalistic world in which everything is privatised, even the Police and the Government. As part of a scheme hatched by the ambitious marketing executives John Nike and John Nike (in Barry's setting, everyone takes their employing company name as their surname), a lower-level merchandising worker, named Hack Nike, is unwittingly contracted to kill teenagers.
After some teenagers were really killed in a Nike Store, Jennifer Government starts her investigation.
It does not take long until the different characters get into contact with each other and Jennifer Government gets to know the basic information about the Nike campaign. It turns out that she is not only involved professionally, but also privately…
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Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
Actually, I think that post was a joke. You're still right, of course.
No he's quite serious. He doesn't value human life and thinks active steps should be taken to reduce the population.
Actually that post was a joke. I would love to see our population balanced through birth control as opposed to say lining up 60% of the worlds population and blasting them to the fertile fields of pluto. However currently that does not appear to be a possibility.
Our way of life is unsustainable, eventually we will deplete needed resources and then we are likely looking at a mass die off. Unless we find renewable sources of energy that we can suspend from the sky to avoid taking up precious, precious land needed to provide housing for the masses.
So that said the value of human life is currently rather low. When we can extract memories and experiences from people to share with others we might actually see a bit of a jump in the market. Human experience would sell rather well. I could always lie and say that human life is valuable while doing nothing to better the human condition, enjoying the comforts I have while people the world over suffer, sitting back and talking about how each life should be cherished but doing diddly squat about the ills of the world. Personally I prefer to care for individuals, and do what I can at that level.
Are you saying we should not take steps to reduce the population?
Now I know it is the 21st century and all that, but I'm pretty sure that books still exist.
Actually, I think that post was a joke. You're still right, of course.
No he's quite serious. He doesn't value human life and thinks active steps should be taken to reduce the population.
Actually that post was a joke. I would love to see our population balanced through birth control as opposed to say lining up 60% of the worlds population and blasting them to the fertile fields of pluto. However currently that does not appear to be a possibility.
Our way of life is unsustainable, eventually we will deplete needed resources and then we are likely looking at a mass die off. Unless we find renewable sources of energy that we can suspend from the sky to avoid taking up precious, precious land needed to provide housing for the masses.
So that said the value of human life is currently rather low. When we can extract memories and experiences from people to share with others we might actually see a bit of a jump in the market. Human experience would sell rather well. I could always lie and say that human life is valuable while doing nothing to better the human condition, enjoying the comforts I have while people the world over suffer, sitting back and talking about how each life should be cherished but doing diddly squat about the ills of the world. Personally I prefer to care for individuals, and do what I can at that level.
Are you saying we should not take steps to reduce the population?
And let me ask you, what do you think people like Jimmy 'the stabber' Malone will do when his marijuana business is now tits up thanks to legalization?
Someone who wants to make money selling drugs and who doesn't care how dangerous the drug is is already selling hard drugs, because pot has a much worse profit margin than crack, heroin, or meth. Hell, Jimmy would be making much better money selling black market OxyContin than he ever would selling pot.
Drug dealers are for the most part selling all sorts of drugs, whichever they happen to have lying around, cut with whatever they fancy for their margins. They just use different fronts for Marijuana or Crack or whatever. The local high dude you see selling Marijuana probably got it from someone more dangerous, who got it from someone more dangerous and so on. Unless he grew it himself, which is highly unlikely, the money goes back to someone you don't want making it. Gangs do make significant cash from Marijuana, furthermore, their unfettered access to it is useful for them as a way to recruit new members.
First, small-time growers aren't that uncommon once you get 20 miles out of a major city. Hell, there are houses within a 20 minute walk from my work that have a small shed surrounded by a garden. This shed typically has a power cord from the house to the shed. We call these trap-houses.
Second, not all pot dealers are drug dealers, who in turn are not always the much feared big scary gang. Not even all the way up the chain. Hell, here in Florida, some of the local pot dealers' dealers' dealers, and so on, are simply old stoners who have the time and the acreage to grow. Or even young stoners who got lucky enough to have the acreage and ability.
There's a good point to be made there. Those retarded people you see in some TV shows with 38 children need a severe beating. They are definitely part of the problem. Wait, god told you to have all those kids!? What was I thinking? You're a great person!
Cheers!
Well, it helps that many of those people are from Africa, where a family of that size would consume just as many resources as one Texan.
And let me ask you, what do you think people like Jimmy 'the stabber' Malone will do when his marijuana business is now tits up thanks to legalization?
Someone who wants to make money selling drugs and who doesn't care how dangerous the drug is is already selling hard drugs, because pot has a much worse profit margin than crack, heroin, or meth. Hell, Jimmy would be making much better money selling black market OxyContin than he ever would selling pot.
Drug dealers are for the most part selling all sorts of drugs, whichever they happen to have lying around, cut with whatever they fancy for their margins. They just use different fronts for Marijuana or Crack or whatever. The local high dude you see selling Marijuana probably got it from someone more dangerous, who got it from someone more dangerous and so on. Unless he grew it himself, which is highly unlikely, the money goes back to someone you don't want making it. Gangs do make significant cash from Marijuana, furthermore, their unfettered access to it is useful for them as a way to recruit new members.
First, small-time growers aren't that uncommon once you get 20 miles out of a major city. Hell, there are houses within a 20 minute walk from my work that have a small shed surrounded by a garden. This shed typically has a power cord from the house to the shed. We call these trap-houses.
Second, not all pot dealers are drug dealers, who in turn are not always the much feared big scary gang. Not even all the way up the chain. Hell, here in Florida, some of the local pot dealers' dealers' dealers, and so on, are simply old stoners who have the time and the acreage to grow. Or even young stoners who got lucky enough to have the acreage and ability.
Most people live in a major enough city that their drugs are not being grown locally.
I'm not saying that people don't exist who grow their own, and supply to some extent, but most of the pot smoked in the US is grown remotely and shipped in. Local growers of pot are probably in the same fraction of local growers of food, a small and nearly insignificant market share. It's money straight into the pockets of the gangs, and its legalization would dry up this source.
And yes, many pot dealers only sell pot. Which they buy from someone else, who probably buys from someone else and the further you go up the chain the less likely you are to want to meet this person and the more 'hard' the drugs are that they are dealing.
Heck, clearly its not all happy old hippies gowing the pot, since there is a massive criminal element involved in growing it in Mexico and Canada.
The point some of you are missing is this: legalizing marijuana instantly criminalizes (and justifies ruthless prosecution) those members of cartels who have been involved in previously and (now) current activities deemed illegal.
Sure, low level guys off the street for a while, but more importantly, high level guys gone as well. Assuming they come peacefully, only for a little while. Assuming there is a struggle, they may be off the streets for good...
The point some of you are missing is this: legalizing marijuana instantly criminalizes (and justifies ruthless prosecution) those members of cartels who have been involved in previously and (now) current activities deemed illegal.
Sure, low level guys off the street for a while, but more importantly, high level guys gone as well. Assuming they come peacefully, only for a little while. Assuming there is a struggle, they may be off the streets for good...
Good luck prosecuting cartels that exist outside the country.
And let me ask you, what do you think people like Jimmy 'the stabber' Malone will do when his marijuana business is now tits up thanks to legalization?
Someone who wants to make money selling drugs and who doesn't care how dangerous the drug is is already selling hard drugs, because pot has a much worse profit margin than crack, heroin, or meth. Hell, Jimmy would be making much better money selling black market OxyContin than he ever would selling pot.
Drug dealers are for the most part selling all sorts of drugs, whichever they happen to have lying around, cut with whatever they fancy for their margins. They just use different fronts for Marijuana or Crack or whatever. The local high dude you see selling Marijuana probably got it from someone more dangerous, who got it from someone more dangerous and so on. Unless he grew it himself, which is highly unlikely, the money goes back to someone you don't want making it. Gangs do make significant cash from Marijuana, furthermore, their unfettered access to it is useful for them as a way to recruit new members.
First, small-time growers aren't that uncommon once you get 20 miles out of a major city. Hell, there are houses within a 20 minute walk from my work that have a small shed surrounded by a garden. This shed typically has a power cord from the house to the shed. We call these trap-houses.
Second, not all pot dealers are drug dealers, who in turn are not always the much feared big scary gang. Not even all the way up the chain. Hell, here in Florida, some of the local pot dealers' dealers' dealers, and so on, are simply old stoners who have the time and the acreage to grow. Or even young stoners who got lucky enough to have the acreage and ability.
Most people live in a major enough city that their drugs are not being grown locally.
I'm not saying that people don't exist who grow their own, and supply to some extent, but most of the pot smoked in the US is grown remotely and shipped in. Local growers of pot are probably in the same fraction of local growers of food, a small and nearly insignificant market share. It's money straight into the pockets of the gangs, and its legalization would dry up this source.
And yes, many pot dealers only sell pot. Which they buy from someone else, who probably buys from someone else and the further you go up the chain the less likely you are to want to meet this person and the more 'hard' the drugs are that they are dealing.
Heck, clearly its not all happy old hippies gowing the pot, since there is a massive criminal element involved in growing it in Mexico and Canada.
This whole point depends completely on where in the states you live. For instance, I live in Kentucky. If you're smoking weed you bought from here, chances are extremely high you're smoking weed that was grown here. End of story.
And weed doesn't have a high enough profit margin for the endless chain of middlemen you're describing. weed is cheap to begin with, and there is plenty of competition to keep prices down. A grower will probably have A middleman, or even 2 at the most, but more than that and someone is working for free or not selling product.
And I maintain that the United States will never decriminalize hard drugs (ie, cocaine, crystal meth, crack, heroin, etc) and it is insanely idiotic to think it will ever happen. It is complete and total political suicide for any upstanding government official to formally introduce such a bill.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
I'm not so sure on that. Most people seem to view Weed and Mushrooms as harmless, because they are both unmodified in the sense that other than growing & harvesting, not much is done with them.
From there, I could see some people starting to think the same thing about Heroin / Poppy and Cocaine / Coca.
Also, heres an interesting tidbit from the US to the World Health Organization:
If WHO activities relating to drugs failed to reinforce proven drug control approaches, funds for the relevant programs should be curtailed.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
I'm not so sure on that. Most people seem to view Weed and Mushrooms as harmless, because they are both unmodified in the sense that other than growing & harvesting, not much is done with them.
From there, I could see some people starting to think the same thing about Heroin / Poppy and Cocaine / Coca.
Also, heres an interesting tidbit from the US to the World Health Organization:
If WHO activities relating to drugs failed to reinforce proven drug control approaches, funds for the relevant programs should be curtailed.
I don't know about "most people" but I view weed as "harmless" because it's virtually impossible to OD on it or suffer serious ill effects as a result of using it. Even the people I know who 420 smoke weed erryday are perfectly functional members of society - shit, one guy is a stockbroker. Shrooms aren't even in the same zip code as weed.
[tiny]i said virtually, don't split hairs here. compare it to the scale of coke/alcohol abuse.[/tiny]
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And to get off the drug tangent and back on the title of the thread for a moment:
Friend of the wife's wants to get married. In Mexico.
Are the touristy areas still safe, or should we decline for reasons of "I don't feel like getting stabbed this year"?
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I wouldn't say it's virtually impossible to OD on weed. I would say it's impossible to OD on weed. The amount of THC necessary to cause fatal results is exxxtreeemeeelllyyyy large. We're talking about smoking 1/3 of your body weight all at once. Obviously, one cannot smoke that much marijuana all at once. Furthermore, much of the effects of marijuana will basically prevent you from smoking more after a certain point. It is a depressant, so eventually, you'll just fall asleep before you can smoke more.
PS: There has never been a reported case of death due to an overdose of marijuana.
And to get off the drug tangent and back on the title of the thread for a moment:
Friend of the wife's wants to get married. In Mexico.
Are the touristy areas still safe, or should we decline for reasons of "I don't feel like getting stabbed this year"?
Well, I know I wouldn't go. If you want a beach and bunch of alcohol, there are a lot safer options to travel to.
Well, I would say to let Mexico perish, as we have no money to feed into the country, and the drug carthels would funnel it through them anyways (seeing as how corrupt the country is). If they can support themselves or call the U.N, perhaps they'll stay out of anarchy, but they will probably plunge into anarchy anyways.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited March 2009
I'm trying to decipher what the above post said, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past all the stupid. Anyone got a translation?
And to get off the drug tangent and back on the title of the thread for a moment:
Friend of the wife's wants to get married. In Mexico.
Are the touristy areas still safe, or should we decline for reasons of "I don't feel like getting stabbed this year"?
The tourist areas are, for the most part, safe. It's the drug transport corridors where all the horrific shit is going down.
I wouldn't say it's virtually impossible to OD on weed. I would say it's impossible to OD on weed. The amount of THC necessary to cause fatal results is exxxtreeemeeelllyyyy large. We're talking about smoking 1/3 of your body weight all at once. Obviously, one cannot smoke that much marijuana all at once. Furthermore, much of the effects of marijuana will basically prevent you from smoking more after a certain point. It is a depressant, so eventually, you'll just fall asleep before you can smoke more.
PS: There has never been a reported case of death due to an overdose of marijuana.
Well, if you deliberately ingested, smoked, concentrated and shot up enough high-test herb you'd eventually get there. But as you said, it would necessitate someone else doing it to you. I left "virtually impossible" in there to avoid someone trying to bring up the "yeah but it's totally possible under this set of circumstances that will never fucking happen" argument. :P
Well, I know I wouldn't go. If you want a beach and bunch of alcohol, there are a lot safer options to travel to.
That's my feelings as well. There's plenty of sandy beaches that don't carry a risk of [strike]getting robbed, beaten, stabbed, and thrown off a rootop[/strike] "getting drunk" and "falling from a balcony."
Also your avatar and facial hair are fucking awesome and a testament to your name sir. 8-)
PeregrineFalcon on
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Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'm trying to decipher what the above post said, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past all the stupid. Anyone got a translation?
"We as a country are pretty fucked as well, and don't have any money to spare in foreign aid. In addition, any provided aid would likely be soaked up by the network of corruption and not reach the needy citizens. If they are able to correct this situation internally or request assistance from the United Nations, they may be able to reverse this downward trend; however, my prediction is that they will suffer an economic collapse and the subsequent ills that result."
The tourist areas are, for the most part, safe. It's the drug transport corridors where all the horrific shit is going down.
I'm not sure where she's planning to go yet, but as she's concerned about cost I'm worried she may cut the wrong corner and pick a less-than-desirable resort.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'm trying to decipher what the above post said, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past all the stupid. Anyone got a translation?
"We as a country are pretty fucked as well, and don't have any money to spare in foreign aid. In addition, any provided aid would likely be soaked up by the network of corruption and not reach the needy citizens. If they are able to correct this situation internally or request assistance from the United Nations, they may be able to reverse this downward trend; however, my prediction is that they will suffer an economic collapse and the subsequent ills that result."
The tourist areas are, for the most part, safe. It's the drug transport corridors where all the horrific shit is going down.
I'm not sure where she's planning to go yet, but as she's concerned about cost I'm worried she may cut the wrong corner and pick a less-than-desirable resort.
I have a friend in central mexico (and a grandmother who is from there) and they both say there's no conflict down there. It's mainly the border areas that are fucked up. I'm sure the yucatan is fine too.
You should go to costa rica, though. It's an incredibly nice country. I'm not sure about the cost, however, as I've only been there on family vacations.
I know it is statistically rare, but haven't Canadians been imprisoned, murdered, and robbed in the tourist focused centers of Mexico made it to the Canadian news sources a few times? I know I had a friend who recently traveled in the area and was mugged: She told the police the thieves had stolen far more money than they actually had as a bit of revenge, since she thought when the cops went to get their cut they would extort more than the thieves had.
Seriously though, check out places like Tofino/Ucluelet BC Canada for beaches and alcohol. Sure, the Pacific ocean water isn't as warm as in Mexico, but I still find it no less fun to swim, boogie board, surf, scuba, kayak, wind surf, fish, and boat in. There are other places on Vancouver Island that also have nice beaches too but I haven't been to the other one's (like near Victoria) myself.
I know it is statistically rare, but haven't Canadians been imprisoned, murdered, and robbed in the tourist focused centers of Mexico made it to the Canadian news sources a few times? I know I had a friend who recently traveled in the area and was mugged: She told the police the thieves had stolen far more money than they actually had as a bit of revenge, since she thought when the cops went to get their cut they would extort more than the thieves had.
Seriously though, check out places like Tofino/Ucluelet BC Canada for beaches and alcohol. Sure, the Pacific ocean water isn't as warm as in Mexico, but I still find it no less fun to swim, boogie board, surf, scuba, kayak, wind surf, fish, and boat in. There are other places on Vancouver Island that also have nice beaches too but I haven't been to the other one's (like near Victoria) myself.
This man speaks truth. I am from the small isloated coast town of Powell River and it is so nice to live here. I also lived in Victoria for 5 years. I am so looking forward to ging back to Victoria this weeken to just enjoy walking around town and visiting Beacon Hill Park, the Inner Harbour adn all teh areas that I really miss.
However for the tropical locale type stuff I would choose Hawaii or the area of Mexico that a co-worker is from, he tells us of how nice the Tabasco area is and most of the corruption is of teh political and nepotisim type rather than thugs. He does tell us to stay away from Mexico city istself and the border areas. If you really want to try the resort towns try to go to the self contained resorts where you will mostly be doing things in and right around the resort itself.
I know it is statistically rare, but haven't Canadians been imprisoned, murdered, and robbed in the tourist focused centers of Mexico made it to the Canadian news sources a few times?
Yeah, thus the quip about the beat-stab-murder-strikethrough becoming "falling off a balcony" as they've been explained.
Seriously though, check out places like Tofino/Ucluelet BC Canada for beaches and alcohol. Sure, the Pacific ocean water isn't as warm as in Mexico, but I still find it no less fun to swim, boogie board, surf, scuba, kayak, wind surf, fish, and boat in. There are other places on Vancouver Island that also have nice beaches too but I haven't been to the other one's (like near Victoria) myself.
I'll have to look into that. I mean, I don't want to impose requirements on someone else's wedding, but travel to Mexico just really seems like a bad fucking idea to me, and I doubt I'm alone on this. Hawaii could be good but I imagine it's not cheap.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
This whole point depends completely on where in the states you live. For instance, I live in Kentucky. If you're smoking weed you bought from here, chances are extremely high you're smoking weed that was grown here. End of story.
And weed doesn't have a high enough profit margin for the endless chain of middlemen you're describing. weed is cheap to begin with, and there is plenty of competition to keep prices down. A grower will probably have A middleman, or even 2 at the most, but more than that and someone is working for free or not selling product.
And I maintain that the United States will never decriminalize hard drugs (ie, cocaine, crystal meth, crack, heroin, etc) and it is insanely idiotic to think it will ever happen. It is complete and total political suicide for any upstanding government official to formally introduce such a bill.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
OK, I guess I go agree that if you live in the states in middle America that your drug growers are probably frustrated farmers who are hiding a field inside a corn field etc.
However this is an unimportant tangent. Gangs DO make significant profits from sales of Marijuana, even if they only control sales in the big cities, they DO grow large amounts in Mexico, and cutting off this source of income would be a huge boon to stabilizing Mexicos government. Every penny you take from the drug dealers helps.
And there is a path from weed legalization to drug legalization. Its called the acceptance of personal responsibility for your actions. Theres no rational reason for drugs to be illegal, its just that people say "drugs are bad". Once you say, "Well, this drug isn't bad" then it continues to undermine the whole insane argument.
And this drug argument is also perfectly relevant to the failure of mexico as a state. Why is Mexico failing? Because we (the USA) have created a system where the criminal gangs have more money than the government, and where the best jobs are in being a drug dealer.
This whole point depends completely on where in the states you live. For instance, I live in Kentucky. If you're smoking weed you bought from here, chances are extremely high you're smoking weed that was grown here. End of story.
And weed doesn't have a high enough profit margin for the endless chain of middlemen you're describing. weed is cheap to begin with, and there is plenty of competition to keep prices down. A grower will probably have A middleman, or even 2 at the most, but more than that and someone is working for free or not selling product.
And I maintain that the United States will never decriminalize hard drugs (ie, cocaine, crystal meth, crack, heroin, etc) and it is insanely idiotic to think it will ever happen. It is complete and total political suicide for any upstanding government official to formally introduce such a bill.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
OK, I guess I go agree that if you live in the states in middle America that your drug growers are probably frustrated farmers who are hiding a field inside a corn field etc.
However this is an unimportant tangent. Gangs DO make significant profits from sales of Marijuana, even if they only control sales in the big cities, they DO grow large amounts in Mexico, and cutting off this source of income would be a huge boon to stabilizing Mexicos government. Every penny you take from the drug dealers helps.
And there is a path from weed legalization to drug legalization. Its called the acceptance of personal responsibility for your actions. Theres no rational reason for drugs to be illegal, its just that people say "drugs are bad". Once you say, "Well, this drug isn't bad" then it continues to undermine the whole insane argument.
And this drug argument is also perfectly relevant to the failure of mexico as a state. Why is Mexico failing? Because we (the USA) have created a system where the criminal gangs have more money than the government, and where the best jobs are in being a drug dealer.
I usually hate slippery slope, but think about it this way:
Heroin, meth, coke; they're all highly addictive. Like... insanely addictive. And aside from being addictive, they fuck you right up. Legalizing these drugs could/probably will lead to the following things:
1. People neglecting their children because they are looking for their next fix all the time.
2. People looking for their next fix while broke are going to resort to crime. A buddy of mine in Vancouver doesn't even leave change in his car in plain view because his window will be smashed for it. A pile of change.
3. The vast vast vast majority of people cannot use these drugs responsibly. They will continue to use these drugs even if it means death.
There's a very large difference between legalizing the likes of Marijuana and the way way way harder stuff like Heroine or Cocaine, in that Marijuana's effects aren't really worse in anyway than alcohol or cigarettes. The same claim can not be made of Heroine, Cocaine, Meth, etc. I mean, one of the main factors in Marijuana gaining more acceptance seems to be the notion that it really doesn't fuck you up like other drugs (or alcohol/tobacco). While it'd be nice if everyone was responsible enough to not do heroine or cocaine, we can't trust the public at large to be that responsible, and given the things that people will do on these hard drugs, it is not at all reasonable to say that they should be left up entirely to personal responsibility. I mean, I'm sure people high on Marijuana can do some stupid shit from time to time, but again, nowhere near as dangerous as someone high on meth or heroine.
The argument for legalizing hard drugs isn't generally saying that their abuse is ok, or that there are no negative externalities due to drug use.
People are going to use drugs regardless of their legal status. Those people who are prone to ruining their lives via drug addiction would be prone to ruining it via other means as well, many of which aren't illegal (alcoholism for one). I have no doubt that legalization would increase incidence of usage, but I remain unconvinced it would add significantly more abuse than the current situation. Addiction is commonly recognized as a disease and should be treated as such.
Taxation of a legal good allows for the remedying of the negative externalities of drug use without dipping as far into general funds. Right now all the money flushed down the hole of interdiction is almost entirely economically wasted. Drug use is far more correlated with economic circumstances than with any of our ham fisted attempts at actually preventing use via interdiction and excalating criminal penalties. Putting a fairly high sin tax on drug consumption, perhaps pro-rated by potential harm (herion has a higher excise tax than marijuana), is a far better approach. The revenue generated could then be spent on health care, social services, and education aimed at remedying the more egregious damage caused by drug use. This is far better than our current policy, which props up horrific drug cartels, imprisons otherwise productive members of society, and creates a net economic drain on society.
Cigarettes are more addictive than cocaine. Yet they remain legal, even with all of their long term health draw backs.
I'm no fancy biolecular physicist here, but I've done coke and I've smoked the occasional cigarette. I can promise you that I've never stayed up for two days smoking cigarettes and then, at 3am, driven to the ghetto to buy another carton cuz I ran out.
Even if cigarettes are more addictive than cocaine, they aren't nearly as damaging to the body or to innocent bystanders of my coke-fueled rage.
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Drug dealers are for the most part selling all sorts of drugs, whichever they happen to have lying around, cut with whatever they fancy for their margins. They just use different fronts for Marijuana or Crack or whatever. The local high dude you see selling Marijuana probably got it from someone more dangerous, who got it from someone more dangerous and so on. Unless he grew it himself, which is highly unlikely, the money goes back to someone you don't want making it. Gangs do make significant cash from Marijuana, furthermore, their unfettered access to it is useful for them as a way to recruit new members.
I don't think Mexico needs to worry about Chinese invasion forces stealing their daughters quite yet...
Bring me the daughter of Alfredo Garcia.
Never. Unionizing, on the other hand...
Steam: pazython
Actually that post was a joke. I would love to see our population balanced through birth control as opposed to say lining up 60% of the worlds population and blasting them to the fertile fields of pluto. However currently that does not appear to be a possibility.
Our way of life is unsustainable, eventually we will deplete needed resources and then we are likely looking at a mass die off. Unless we find renewable sources of energy that we can suspend from the sky to avoid taking up precious, precious land needed to provide housing for the masses.
So that said the value of human life is currently rather low. When we can extract memories and experiences from people to share with others we might actually see a bit of a jump in the market. Human experience would sell rather well. I could always lie and say that human life is valuable while doing nothing to better the human condition, enjoying the comforts I have while people the world over suffer, sitting back and talking about how each life should be cherished but doing diddly squat about the ills of the world. Personally I prefer to care for individuals, and do what I can at that level.
Are you saying we should not take steps to reduce the population?
Jennifer Government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Government
off topic, but that mention of a coke employee shooting a pepsi drinker reminded me of several instances in the book.
Now I know it is the 21st century and all that, but I'm pretty sure that books still exist.
This guy isn't as crazy as he seems.
First, small-time growers aren't that uncommon once you get 20 miles out of a major city. Hell, there are houses within a 20 minute walk from my work that have a small shed surrounded by a garden. This shed typically has a power cord from the house to the shed. We call these trap-houses.
Second, not all pot dealers are drug dealers, who in turn are not always the much feared big scary gang. Not even all the way up the chain. Hell, here in Florida, some of the local pot dealers' dealers' dealers, and so on, are simply old stoners who have the time and the acreage to grow. Or even young stoners who got lucky enough to have the acreage and ability.
Well, it helps that many of those people are from Africa, where a family of that size would consume just as many resources as one Texan.
Most people live in a major enough city that their drugs are not being grown locally.
I'm not saying that people don't exist who grow their own, and supply to some extent, but most of the pot smoked in the US is grown remotely and shipped in. Local growers of pot are probably in the same fraction of local growers of food, a small and nearly insignificant market share. It's money straight into the pockets of the gangs, and its legalization would dry up this source.
And yes, many pot dealers only sell pot. Which they buy from someone else, who probably buys from someone else and the further you go up the chain the less likely you are to want to meet this person and the more 'hard' the drugs are that they are dealing.
Heck, clearly its not all happy old hippies gowing the pot, since there is a massive criminal element involved in growing it in Mexico and Canada.
Sure, low level guys off the street for a while, but more importantly, high level guys gone as well. Assuming they come peacefully, only for a little while. Assuming there is a struggle, they may be off the streets for good...
Good luck prosecuting cartels that exist outside the country.
This whole point depends completely on where in the states you live. For instance, I live in Kentucky. If you're smoking weed you bought from here, chances are extremely high you're smoking weed that was grown here. End of story.
And weed doesn't have a high enough profit margin for the endless chain of middlemen you're describing. weed is cheap to begin with, and there is plenty of competition to keep prices down. A grower will probably have A middleman, or even 2 at the most, but more than that and someone is working for free or not selling product.
And I maintain that the United States will never decriminalize hard drugs (ie, cocaine, crystal meth, crack, heroin, etc) and it is insanely idiotic to think it will ever happen. It is complete and total political suicide for any upstanding government official to formally introduce such a bill.
There is no slippery slope from weed legality to cocaine legality.
I'm not so sure on that. Most people seem to view Weed and Mushrooms as harmless, because they are both unmodified in the sense that other than growing & harvesting, not much is done with them.
From there, I could see some people starting to think the same thing about Heroin / Poppy and Cocaine / Coca.
Also, heres an interesting tidbit from the US to the World Health Organization:
MWO: Adamski
I don't know about "most people" but I view weed as "harmless" because it's virtually impossible to OD on it or suffer serious ill effects as a result of using it. Even the people I know who 420 smoke weed erryday are perfectly functional members of society - shit, one guy is a stockbroker. Shrooms aren't even in the same zip code as weed.
[tiny]i said virtually, don't split hairs here. compare it to the scale of coke/alcohol abuse.[/tiny]
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Friend of the wife's wants to get married. In Mexico.
Are the touristy areas still safe, or should we decline for reasons of "I don't feel like getting stabbed this year"?
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PS: There has never been a reported case of death due to an overdose of marijuana.
Well, I know I wouldn't go. If you want a beach and bunch of alcohol, there are a lot safer options to travel to.
Well, if you deliberately ingested, smoked, concentrated and shot up enough high-test herb you'd eventually get there. But as you said, it would necessitate someone else doing it to you. I left "virtually impossible" in there to avoid someone trying to bring up the "yeah but it's totally possible under this set of circumstances that will never fucking happen" argument. :P
That's my feelings as well. There's plenty of sandy beaches that don't carry a risk of [strike]getting robbed, beaten, stabbed, and thrown off a rootop[/strike] "getting drunk" and "falling from a balcony."
Also your avatar and facial hair are fucking awesome and a testament to your name sir. 8-)
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"We as a country are pretty fucked as well, and don't have any money to spare in foreign aid. In addition, any provided aid would likely be soaked up by the network of corruption and not reach the needy citizens. If they are able to correct this situation internally or request assistance from the United Nations, they may be able to reverse this downward trend; however, my prediction is that they will suffer an economic collapse and the subsequent ills that result."
I'm not sure where she's planning to go yet, but as she's concerned about cost I'm worried she may cut the wrong corner and pick a less-than-desirable resort.
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;-)
I have a friend in central mexico (and a grandmother who is from there) and they both say there's no conflict down there. It's mainly the border areas that are fucked up. I'm sure the yucatan is fine too.
You should go to costa rica, though. It's an incredibly nice country. I'm not sure about the cost, however, as I've only been there on family vacations.
Seriously though, check out places like Tofino/Ucluelet BC Canada for beaches and alcohol. Sure, the Pacific ocean water isn't as warm as in Mexico, but I still find it no less fun to swim, boogie board, surf, scuba, kayak, wind surf, fish, and boat in. There are other places on Vancouver Island that also have nice beaches too but I haven't been to the other one's (like near Victoria) myself.
This man speaks truth. I am from the small isloated coast town of Powell River and it is so nice to live here. I also lived in Victoria for 5 years. I am so looking forward to ging back to Victoria this weeken to just enjoy walking around town and visiting Beacon Hill Park, the Inner Harbour adn all teh areas that I really miss.
However for the tropical locale type stuff I would choose Hawaii or the area of Mexico that a co-worker is from, he tells us of how nice the Tabasco area is and most of the corruption is of teh political and nepotisim type rather than thugs. He does tell us to stay away from Mexico city istself and the border areas. If you really want to try the resort towns try to go to the self contained resorts where you will mostly be doing things in and right around the resort itself.
Yeah, thus the quip about the beat-stab-murder-strikethrough becoming "falling off a balcony" as they've been explained.
I'll have to look into that. I mean, I don't want to impose requirements on someone else's wedding, but travel to Mexico just really seems like a bad fucking idea to me, and I doubt I'm alone on this. Hawaii could be good but I imagine it's not cheap.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
OK, I guess I go agree that if you live in the states in middle America that your drug growers are probably frustrated farmers who are hiding a field inside a corn field etc.
However this is an unimportant tangent. Gangs DO make significant profits from sales of Marijuana, even if they only control sales in the big cities, they DO grow large amounts in Mexico, and cutting off this source of income would be a huge boon to stabilizing Mexicos government. Every penny you take from the drug dealers helps.
And there is a path from weed legalization to drug legalization. Its called the acceptance of personal responsibility for your actions. Theres no rational reason for drugs to be illegal, its just that people say "drugs are bad". Once you say, "Well, this drug isn't bad" then it continues to undermine the whole insane argument.
And this drug argument is also perfectly relevant to the failure of mexico as a state. Why is Mexico failing? Because we (the USA) have created a system where the criminal gangs have more money than the government, and where the best jobs are in being a drug dealer.
This is a joke, right?
I usually hate slippery slope, but think about it this way:
Heroin, meth, coke; they're all highly addictive. Like... insanely addictive. And aside from being addictive, they fuck you right up. Legalizing these drugs could/probably will lead to the following things:
1. People neglecting their children because they are looking for their next fix all the time.
2. People looking for their next fix while broke are going to resort to crime. A buddy of mine in Vancouver doesn't even leave change in his car in plain view because his window will be smashed for it. A pile of change.
3. The vast vast vast majority of people cannot use these drugs responsibly. They will continue to use these drugs even if it means death.
MWO: Adamski
Tobacco is grown in the U.S. and cocoa plants aren't. There's your explanation.
People are going to use drugs regardless of their legal status. Those people who are prone to ruining their lives via drug addiction would be prone to ruining it via other means as well, many of which aren't illegal (alcoholism for one). I have no doubt that legalization would increase incidence of usage, but I remain unconvinced it would add significantly more abuse than the current situation. Addiction is commonly recognized as a disease and should be treated as such.
Taxation of a legal good allows for the remedying of the negative externalities of drug use without dipping as far into general funds. Right now all the money flushed down the hole of interdiction is almost entirely economically wasted. Drug use is far more correlated with economic circumstances than with any of our ham fisted attempts at actually preventing use via interdiction and excalating criminal penalties. Putting a fairly high sin tax on drug consumption, perhaps pro-rated by potential harm (herion has a higher excise tax than marijuana), is a far better approach. The revenue generated could then be spent on health care, social services, and education aimed at remedying the more egregious damage caused by drug use. This is far better than our current policy, which props up horrific drug cartels, imprisons otherwise productive members of society, and creates a net economic drain on society.
I'm no fancy biolecular physicist here, but I've done coke and I've smoked the occasional cigarette. I can promise you that I've never stayed up for two days smoking cigarettes and then, at 3am, driven to the ghetto to buy another carton cuz I ran out.
Even if cigarettes are more addictive than cocaine, they aren't nearly as damaging to the body or to innocent bystanders of my coke-fueled rage.
How much do I owe you?