reverse CTF maps (football maps) where you start with the enemy flag in your base and your capture point in the enemy base (like torch2)
semi-reverse CTF maps where you grab the flag in one part of the enemy base and capture it somewhere else in their base (like rock2)
multiple-flag CTF where you have more than 2 flags that start out in the middle or at multiple "fighting areas" around the map and you hold & capture them for points (like flagrun)
security CTF maps where you have to disable a power grid or break a wall to get access to the intel (like shutdown)
and other stuff that would be nice:
5-point maps where you can capture any point at any time and you get points for holding them/capping them all (like canalzone)
semi-reverse CTF maps where you grab the flag in one part of the enemy base and capture it somewhere else in their base (like rock2)
Rock2 was my favorite map in TFC.
Hell, I just want a map with that "when you cap the flag, the enemy base is flooded with poison gas" gimmick. It was always fun hearing the alarms go off and scrambling for the very limited supply of biohazard suits.
Let's take something not broken about the medic and nerf it! I mean, who hasn't had their team steamrolled by blut wielding medics, am I right?
Clearly it wasn't enough when you couldn't uber two people. It wasn't enough when you couldn't store uber charges. It wasn't enough when more and more classes get easy counters to an uber. The class needs to be weaker, and preferably with less actual skill needed to play!
OOOoooh! Let's change it so the medic can only overheal 1 person at a time! That way, he can just stick to his heavy like he is supposed to! Then we can nerf the other weapons, cuz if the heavy dies, then what good is the medic anyway?
Original needle gun should generate 0.5% ubercharge per hit. 1% per critical.
So you choose between heals or charging your uber faster when attacked ( if you survive ).
I think the gun shoots too fast for that; that is a potential of 5% per second if every needle hits, or 20 seconds to full uber...any kind of buff like that to the syringe gun should at max be at the same rate as charging on a fully overhealed target; the medigun should still be the fastest way to charge, even if it carries less risk.
Knuckle Dragger on
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
semi-reverse CTF maps where you grab the flag in one part of the enemy base and capture it somewhere else in their base (like rock2)
Rock2 was my favorite map in TFC.
Hell, I just want a map with that "when you cap the flag, the enemy base is flooded with poison gas" gimmick. It was always fun hearing the alarms go off and scrambling for the very limited supply of biohazard suits.
Yeah, that new firing cone for the heavies is great and all, but it seriously messes up my aim. If it did it a little bit less, I'd be happier, but I haven't killed many heavies recently if they know I'm there and are shooting at me.
semi-reverse CTF maps where you grab the flag in one part of the enemy base and capture it somewhere else in their base (like rock2)
Rock2 was my favorite map in TFC.
Hell, I just want a map with that "when you cap the flag, the enemy base is flooded with poison gas" gimmick. It was always fun hearing the alarms go off and scrambling for the very limited supply of biohazard suits.
Sacrifist (the guy that ported Warpath) also did ports of Rock2 and Avanti. I remember we helped test Rock2 at The Ville, but it was never very popular on the servers.
Knuckle Dragger on
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
Original needle gun should generate 0.5% ubercharge per hit. 1% per critical.
So you choose between heals or charging your uber faster when attacked ( if you survive ).
This is an excellent idea, but it would certainly need some balancing, otherwise it would encourage way too many battle Medics. Maybe more like a 5% (10% at most) ubercharge per kill? Then you can't just run in, shoot a little bit, and retreat to charge your uber; you actually have to kill someone, so if you try to charge your entire uber that way, chances are very good you'll just die, and thus battle Medics remain useless (as they should be.)
The blutsauger is pretty ridiculous, but not so much that you see pure offensive medics. I think it's fine. Either a nerf to blutsauger, but preferably a buff to the needlegun. Maybe if the blutsauger didn't do the same amount of damage, it's kind of sad how often a medic can win a pyro or scout fight.
make it either +1 or +2 health instead of three and it's fixed
I hate fighting lone medics, because I know they're going to pull out that bloodsucker
This.
Prior to the medic update medics were fairly easy kills as a scout. Even if they had a buddy it was a simple order of flank, triple-shot, run away. If you catch a medic alone you were probably even more likely to get the kill. That needlegun has made my job of killing key targets much harder.
Maybe lower the % from Ubersaw to 20% per strike ( boo, I hear the Medics of the thread, boo ).
Then add a % for every needle for the needle gun. 0.5% may have been too high. 0.2%, 5 needles per 1% of charge. Bump that up to a full 1% of charge for a critical.
Needlegun : 0.2% Ubercharge per needle, 1% per critical, this gun can crit.
Blutsauger : +2 hp per needle, no crits.
Ubersaw : Reduced to 20% charge per strike to compensate for another method of gaining ubercharge.
So, Medigun to charge Uber when you want to keep people alive / form a killing duo, Needlegun for long range charging if you need to attack / feel like peppering away if noone is around, Blut for survivability.
Best idea I saw regarding the ubersaw/blutsauger thing was to switch their downsides- ubersaw can't crit and the blutsauger shoots slower.
The needlegun relies on spamming needles at the target to do damage and melee weapons very strongly rely on crits to kill the other person before they turn around and mash your silly head into a pulp. Their current disadvantages are basically slaps on the wrist (blutsauger still does fine damage, good healing; and the ubersaw can still crit someone to death in a second), but switch them and they lose a lot of damage and it becomes "Do I want damage, or the secondary effect?"
Best idea I saw regarding the ubersaw/blutsauger thing was to switch their downsides- ubersaw can't crit and the blutsauger shoots slower.
The needlegun relies on spamming needles at the target to do damage and melee weapons very strongly rely on crits to kill the other person before they turn around and mash your silly head into a pulp. Their current disadvantages are basically slaps on the wrist (blutsauger still does fine damage, good healing; and the ubersaw can still crit someone to death in a second), but switch them and they lose a lot of damage and it becomes "Do I want damage, or the secondary effect?"
The Blutsauger just needs its damage nerfed. Blut for escaping and needlegun for killing-while-escaping. Right now the Blut gets it both ways, not having crits isn't nearly enough of a downside.
How do you escape when you have no deterrent against pursuit? A medic can just barely outpace a demo while backpedalling, provided he can run straight and hits no obstacles. If he can't hurt his pursuer, he is just going to be run down and killed.
I didn't say no damage, I said less. If you don't like it you can pick the needlegun, that's the whole point. You have to choose between prolonging your life while you retreat, or killing your pursuer quickly at the cost of defense. It's a sidegrade. If you know you can't get away without killing them then just use the bonesaw.
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
Knuckle Dragger on
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
TF2 needs jailbreak, when you kill someone you go to jail. If you cap an point/intelligence/hit an button the jaildoor opens and the players are back in the game. Also at the end of every map the team without any players left would be killed by an environmental hazard in the jail. (Lasers, gas, falling rocks, an rocket, flames, the ground opens to an endless pit)
noes. leave it as is. is there really a problem with it other than the fact that it's not a sidegrade?
That's a problem.
not really. medics still die laughably quick to any competent player if we dont have support. changing everything around to make us more neutered defensively will do nothing. the only reason i would say you needed to do anything would be against tandem medics, but thats so easy to counter now that it's not even funny.
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
ed: alternately, is it even possible to create a new flagged entity you can carry around that will set off triggers at capture points, or at least something that looks like a capture point?
The Blutsauger just needs its damage nerfed. Blut for escaping and needlegun for killing-while-escaping. Right now the Blut gets it both ways, not having crits isn't nearly enough of a downside.
How do you escape when you have no deterrent against pursuit? A medic can just barely outpace a demo while backpedalling, provided he can run straight and hits no obstacles. If he can't hurt his pursuer, he is just going to be run down and killed.
I didn't say no damage, I said less. If you don't like it you can pick the needlegun, that's the whole point. You have to choose between prolonging your life while you retreat, or killing your pursuer quickly at the cost of defense. It's a sidegrade. If you know you can't get away without killing them then just use the bonesaw.
It doesn't prolong your life if it encourages the other guy to run you down and kill you, and you in all reality, the only class a medic can outrun while shooting at is the heavy.
Knuckle Dragger on
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
if you can change the timing so its near instant cap it would work similar to the other one.
TF2 needs jailbreak, when you kill someone you go to jail. If you cap an point/intelligence/hit an button the jaildoor opens and the players are back in the game. Also at the end of every map the team without any players left would be killed by an environmental hazard in the jail. (Lasers, gas, falling rocks, an rocket, flames, the ground opens to an endless pit)
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
Have you played Fallout? It is somewhat similar: Three points that can be capped in any order; round ends as soon as a team captures all 3, even if one of the others is partially capped by the other team.
It is not a symmetrical map, but teams switch sides after each round (this does get confusing at times). It also has a short setup time and rounds usually go rather quickly (I think I may have seen it stalemate once).
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
if you can change the timing so its near instant cap it would work similar to the other one.
Except everyone would be equal speed, so I could see that going very, very badly with coordinated scouts and spies turning a game around in seconds. One thing that was nice about cz2 was that only the flagrunners were slowed, so the only ones able to ultimately win the game were sitting ducks without lots of free-moving escorts.
edit: definitely going to have to check out that map sometime soon Knuckle
Rock2 would have to undergo some serious alterations on its way to TF2, honestly. It was a hugeass map, even for a game as fast as TFC was. I could see it changing about as much as Well changed.
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
if you can change the timing so its near instant cap it would work similar to the other one.
CZ2, only one of the 4 flag carriers could cap, and they moved at half speed. Without those two restrictions, instant-cap points would be too hard to defend...Though it would be funny to see a coordinated simultaneous spycap.
Knuckle Dragger on
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion.
Posts
You still got away you slippery weasel you
See, this is why I believe all medics should keep a no-heal list. If you want to bitch about us, at least we can give you a reason.
- John Stuart Mill
So you choose between heals or charging your uber faster when attacked ( if you survive ).
Rock2 was my favorite map in TFC.
Hell, I just want a map with that "when you cap the flag, the enemy base is flooded with poison gas" gimmick. It was always fun hearing the alarms go off and scrambling for the very limited supply of biohazard suits.
Let's take something not broken about the medic and nerf it! I mean, who hasn't had their team steamrolled by blut wielding medics, am I right?
Clearly it wasn't enough when you couldn't uber two people. It wasn't enough when you couldn't store uber charges. It wasn't enough when more and more classes get easy counters to an uber. The class needs to be weaker, and preferably with less actual skill needed to play!
OOOoooh! Let's change it so the medic can only overheal 1 person at a time! That way, he can just stick to his heavy like he is supposed to! Then we can nerf the other weapons, cuz if the heavy dies, then what good is the medic anyway?
P.S. Please post more.
I think the gun shoots too fast for that; that is a potential of 5% per second if every needle hits, or 20 seconds to full uber...any kind of buff like that to the syringe gun should at max be at the same rate as charging on a fully overhealed target; the medigun should still be the fastest way to charge, even if it carries less risk.
- John Stuart Mill
Sacrifist (the guy that ported Warpath) also did ports of Rock2 and Avanti. I remember we helped test Rock2 at The Ville, but it was never very popular on the servers.
- John Stuart Mill
I played the Avanti map and it was decent but again, needs some tweaks to deal with the slower movement and no concs.
I would fuck an old nun for an awesome TF2 version of canalzon2 and torch2 though
Avanti was by far my favourite TFC map and I've wanted a good remake since I started playing TF2. I did play a remake once but it wasn't very good.
XBL |Steam | PSN | last.fm
This is an excellent idea, but it would certainly need some balancing, otherwise it would encourage way too many battle Medics. Maybe more like a 5% (10% at most) ubercharge per kill? Then you can't just run in, shoot a little bit, and retreat to charge your uber; you actually have to kill someone, so if you try to charge your entire uber that way, chances are very good you'll just die, and thus battle Medics remain useless (as they should be.)
Man I only had 7 hp, it was nuts.
This.
Prior to the medic update medics were fairly easy kills as a scout. Even if they had a buddy it was a simple order of flank, triple-shot, run away. If you catch a medic alone you were probably even more likely to get the kill. That needlegun has made my job of killing key targets much harder.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Then add a % for every needle for the needle gun. 0.5% may have been too high. 0.2%, 5 needles per 1% of charge. Bump that up to a full 1% of charge for a critical.
Needlegun : 0.2% Ubercharge per needle, 1% per critical, this gun can crit.
Blutsauger : +2 hp per needle, no crits.
Ubersaw : Reduced to 20% charge per strike to compensate for another method of gaining ubercharge.
So, Medigun to charge Uber when you want to keep people alive / form a killing duo, Needlegun for long range charging if you need to attack / feel like peppering away if noone is around, Blut for survivability.
The needlegun relies on spamming needles at the target to do damage and melee weapons very strongly rely on crits to kill the other person before they turn around and mash your silly head into a pulp. Their current disadvantages are basically slaps on the wrist (blutsauger still does fine damage, good healing; and the ubersaw can still crit someone to death in a second), but switch them and they lose a lot of damage and it becomes "Do I want damage, or the secondary effect?"
I didn't say no damage, I said less. If you don't like it you can pick the needlegun, that's the whole point. You have to choose between prolonging your life while you retreat, or killing your pursuer quickly at the cost of defense. It's a sidegrade. If you know you can't get away without killing them then just use the bonesaw.
That is what I am talking aboot.
This actually just came up on the official boards. Some of us tried to port canalzone2 to TF2, but ran into a problem with the mechanics; you can pick up multiple intels, but you can only drop one. If you grab 2 of them, when you drop one, it flag you as no longer carrying and one of the intels as having been dropped; the other intel is still flagged as being picked up and never respawns.
- John Stuart Mill
That's a problem.
not really. medics still die laughably quick to any competent player if we dont have support. changing everything around to make us more neutered defensively will do nothing. the only reason i would say you needed to do anything would be against tandem medics, but thats so easy to counter now that it's not even funny.
Bummer. Might have to settle for just five spread-out command points, none very close to either team's base, that you can cap in any order.
ed: alternately, is it even possible to create a new flagged entity you can carry around that will set off triggers at capture points, or at least something that looks like a capture point?
It doesn't prolong your life if it encourages the other guy to run you down and kill you, and you in all reality, the only class a medic can outrun while shooting at is the heavy.
- John Stuart Mill
if you can change the timing so its near instant cap it would work similar to the other one.
Reminds me of that super fun prison level in TFC.
Have you played Fallout? It is somewhat similar: Three points that can be capped in any order; round ends as soon as a team captures all 3, even if one of the others is partially capped by the other team.
It is not a symmetrical map, but teams switch sides after each round (this does get confusing at times). It also has a short setup time and rounds usually go rather quickly (I think I may have seen it stalemate once).
http://www.fpsbanana.com/maps/61442
- John Stuart Mill
edit: definitely going to have to check out that map sometime soon Knuckle
CZ2, only one of the 4 flag carriers could cap, and they moved at half speed. Without those two restrictions, instant-cap points would be too hard to defend...Though it would be funny to see a coordinated simultaneous spycap.
- John Stuart Mill