If they weren't a Deathknight,mage,druid,rogue I'd understand completely.
Sometimes I wonder if their RNG is even close to a pseudo RNG, certainly seems stacked until it reaches a critical point where it just unloads onto someone. IE quest drops tend to either be really good or really shitty, item drops tend to be really good or really shitty, cooking dailies tend to be one thing day after day, instance dailies tend to be one thing day after day.
We're not sure if we're going to imply the +10 to loot (goes until they win something) or if it's going to be a roll of 1-110 or whatever. the implied +10 is probably the better of the two.
They've posted the algorithm they use.
- WoW currently uses the IBAA pseudo-random number generation algorithm. We have a library of generators and can switch at any time if the need were to arise.
- WoW currently uses the IBAA pseudo-random number generation algorithm. We have a library of generators and can switch at any time if the need were to arise.
Randomness is sometimes streaky.[/QUOTE]
We are also TERRIBLE at recognizing when something is random and when it is not.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
Best "working loot council" I've seen on a pug is that you can only win a single tier token for the run, with simple mainspec free rolls on everything and offspec free rolls if no one wants it for mainspec. The other working loot council i've seen is the raid leader simply saying before the start if "this linked purple" drops it is going to "thisname", free rolls on everything else if you don't like it don't come.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
I never said anything about that. Letting people roll on everything regardless of what they've already won is just dumb in anything outside a 5 man, though.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
I never said anything about that. Letting people roll on everything regardless of what they've already won is just dumb in anything outside a 5 man, though.
I agree it's not the best way to distribute loot but it's what happens most of the time, it seems pretty much standard.
I mean, in diablo2 the loot system I encountered was generally whatever you click on faster than the other guy is yours.
The best way to distribute loot is to not play with people who are dicks.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
I never said anything about that. Letting people roll on everything regardless of what they've already won is just dumb in anything outside a 5 man, though.
Oh, yeah, total free rolls is kinda silly. We do that in 10 mans but it's more because we're all too lazy to pay attention and argue, and nowadays it's just gear for alts and the rare item that a main wants and declares loudly on Vent for no one to roll on. We make the Naxx pugs adhere to a version of our regular loot rules, i.e., you want something, you /roll, and then say in raid chat how many things you've already won. The person who's won the least things gets it, or if it's a tie then the highest roll of them, etc. It works out well until people start trying to be sneaky and roll "off-spec" for items that are probably upgrades for their main spec.
The basic idea was a loot council that usually just defaulted to free roles for main specs. This was to protect the people that got the raid to the point it had gotten to, but to allow for PuGs to have a shot at stuff when it wasn't a big deal. Most stuff that dropped just got /rolled on, but occasionally the council would step in and say "this person's been coming for this long and it's a big upgrade for them - it's going to him/her". Drama was actually pretty non-existant.
Of course, I was the RL and ML and people respected me enough to know I wasn't dicking them. The rules were always made very clear at the outset, and the group was almost always made of mature people that were there as much to have fun as to pick up nice, shiney goodies. People understood when the council stepped in it was for a reason, and there were enough opportunities for people to /roll that they would see we weren't playing favorites just to play favorites - rather to reward someone. I took a break at one point for a month and someone else stepped in to keep the raid going - he did a loot council with him being the only member of the council (where I would link/chat about it in o-chat) and it pretty much killed the raid.
What little drama did crop up was inevitably from first time PuGers that didn't come again, and we didn't miss 'em so who cares?
Killer Avacado on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
we run a weekly Naxx pug same as you do, for alts and mains who didn't get to go.
we have a caveat in the loot system that if we feel you're performing badly, or that you have gotten a ton of loot, we reserve the right to award the item to the second highest roller.
Had that in place ever since a warlock doing 1.2k DPS won the Turning Tide.
- WoW currently uses the IBAA pseudo-random number generation algorithm. We have a library of generators and can switch at any time if the need were to arise.
Randomness is sometimes streaky.
We are also TERRIBLE at recognizing when something is random and when it is not.
We're not really terrible at recognizing random events we just don't like to accept them. We have no control over random events and humans tend to not enjoy losing control. We often create bogus patterns to give structure to the unknown.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
we run a weekly Naxx pug same as you do, for alts and mains who didn't get to go.
we have a caveat in the loot system that if we feel you're performing badly, or that you have gotten a ton of loot, we reserve the right to award the item to the second highest roller.
Had that in place ever since a warlock doing 1.2k DPS won the Turning Tide.
What I never will understand is why people who cannot do any type of real dps want better gear. I mean honestly, it isn't going to improve their performance. I guess they want to stand around in cities and say hey look at my gear and how cool I am.
If you're concerned about distributing loot evenly, just don't free roll on shit.
Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
we run a weekly Naxx pug same as you do, for alts and mains who didn't get to go.
we have a caveat in the loot system that if we feel you're performing badly, or that you have gotten a ton of loot, we reserve the right to award the item to the second highest roller.
Had that in place ever since a warlock doing 1.2k DPS won the Turning Tide.
What I never will understand is why people who cannot do any type of real dps want better gear. I mean honestly, it isn't going to improve their performance. I guess they want to stand around in cities and say hey look at my gear and how cool I am.
makes perfect sense... if you're doing 1000 dps on your hunter, say, and an upgraded gun off of KT drops, you might do 1020 dps afterwards. improvement without effort, what's not to love?
Better is people who want upgrades and never bothered to properly gem or enchant the epic they're replacing. And enchant is an even bigger upgrade right there, buddy, and you never worried about THAT...
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2009
Getting the expensive enchant, I can understand being lax as to that, but getting any enchant at all should be really easy in this day and age.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Haha. You try loot counciling a pug.
They've posted the algorithm they use.
Randomness is sometimes streaky.
Randomness is sometimes streaky.[/QUOTE]
We are also TERRIBLE at recognizing when something is random and when it is not.
Best "working loot council" I've seen on a pug is that you can only win a single tier token for the run, with simple mainspec free rolls on everything and offspec free rolls if no one wants it for mainspec. The other working loot council i've seen is the raid leader simply saying before the start if "this linked purple" drops it is going to "thisname", free rolls on everything else if you don't like it don't come.
I pity any ML who loot councils in a pug
bad mojo
I never said anything about that. Letting people roll on everything regardless of what they've already won is just dumb in anything outside a 5 man, though.
I agree it's not the best way to distribute loot but it's what happens most of the time, it seems pretty much standard.
I mean, in diablo2 the loot system I encountered was generally whatever you click on faster than the other guy is yours.
The best way to distribute loot is to not play with people who are dicks.
Oh, yeah, total free rolls is kinda silly. We do that in 10 mans but it's more because we're all too lazy to pay attention and argue, and nowadays it's just gear for alts and the rare item that a main wants and declares loudly on Vent for no one to roll on. We make the Naxx pugs adhere to a version of our regular loot rules, i.e., you want something, you /roll, and then say in raid chat how many things you've already won. The person who's won the least things gets it, or if it's a tie then the highest roll of them, etc. It works out well until people start trying to be sneaky and roll "off-spec" for items that are probably upgrades for their main spec.
The basic idea was a loot council that usually just defaulted to free roles for main specs. This was to protect the people that got the raid to the point it had gotten to, but to allow for PuGs to have a shot at stuff when it wasn't a big deal. Most stuff that dropped just got /rolled on, but occasionally the council would step in and say "this person's been coming for this long and it's a big upgrade for them - it's going to him/her". Drama was actually pretty non-existant.
Of course, I was the RL and ML and people respected me enough to know I wasn't dicking them. The rules were always made very clear at the outset, and the group was almost always made of mature people that were there as much to have fun as to pick up nice, shiney goodies. People understood when the council stepped in it was for a reason, and there were enough opportunities for people to /roll that they would see we weren't playing favorites just to play favorites - rather to reward someone. I took a break at one point for a month and someone else stepped in to keep the raid going - he did a loot council with him being the only member of the council (where I would link/chat about it in o-chat) and it pretty much killed the raid.
What little drama did crop up was inevitably from first time PuGers that didn't come again, and we didn't miss 'em so who cares?
we run a weekly Naxx pug same as you do, for alts and mains who didn't get to go.
we have a caveat in the loot system that if we feel you're performing badly, or that you have gotten a ton of loot, we reserve the right to award the item to the second highest roller.
Had that in place ever since a warlock doing 1.2k DPS won the Turning Tide.
We're not really terrible at recognizing random events we just don't like to accept them. We have no control over random events and humans tend to not enjoy losing control. We often create bogus patterns to give structure to the unknown.
I thought that was interesting, and a good thing given Naxx didn't really have useful hard modes like Ulduar will.
What I never will understand is why people who cannot do any type of real dps want better gear. I mean honestly, it isn't going to improve their performance. I guess they want to stand around in cities and say hey look at my gear and how cool I am.
makes perfect sense... if you're doing 1000 dps on your hunter, say, and an upgraded gun off of KT drops, you might do 1020 dps afterwards. improvement without effort, what's not to love?