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Wonder Woman: A confused icon
Lucascraft
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I've been thinking about making this thread for a while, and I have some free time right now so I decided I'd throw this together.
The idea behind this thread was inspired by discussion that came up in the thread titled "Final Crisis and also how to fix DC Comics" which can be found here: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=81523 Specifically, the discussion about the confused state of the Wonder Woman mythos begins on page 21 of that thread.
DC has built up 3 characters as the Trinity of DC comics: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. The first two are very obvious as to why they are included. They are both iconic powerhouses that have been around for a really long time and have saturated almost every facet of our culture.
But the inclusion of Wonder Woman confuses a lot of people. Her presence in the DC continuity is not so clearly defined. As I titled this thread, Wonder Woman is some what of a confused cultural icon, and I would like to discuss this confusion in more depth in this thread, as well as hopefully discuss some reasonable solutions to fixing her mythos.
So who is Wonder Woman? This is a question that even DC seems to be trying to answer. The opening story arc in the 2007 Wonder Woman relaunch is actually titled "Who is Wonder Woman"
Wonder Woman is an Amazonian Princess. She comes from the mythical island of Themyscira. She is the daughter of Queen Hyppolyta. She was trained as a warrior princess and possesses the physical attributes of the Greek pantheon. She has the speed of Hermes, the wisdom of Athena, the grace of Artemis, and a few other things.
But her powers are not very clearly defined. Her power level is largely dependent on the writer. Some writers depict her as being as fast as the Flash, or as strong as Superman, yet other writers have her tossed around like a rag doll. She lacks a clear consistency on how fast, strong, smart, she really is.
Another aspect is that her costume does not in any way, shape, or form indicate her Greek mythology herritage.
What part of a Red, White, and Blue bathing suit indicates that she's an Amazon Princess? Her costume is a relic of World War 2 when she was created. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:
So she's a feminist, Nazi fighting Greek that wields a lasso, which is traditionally a part of the American Western cowboy genre.
Her history, origin, costume, powers, tools, and purpose are so muddled and confused that its no doubt she isn't as popular as her two counterparts in the trinity. That being said, I think she has the potential to be awesome. What DC needs to do is bring in a writer with a clear vision and purpose and completely rebuild Wonder Woman from the ground up. If she's going to be Greek, then her costume and abilities need to reflect this. If she's going to be an American patriotic hero, then maybe she needs to fight some Nazis every now and again. Its 2009 and Captain America still fights Nazis so there's no reason Wonder Woman can't also.
Most of all, I think they really need to work to differentiate her from Superman. Most writers tend to just write her as a female version of him. They both fly, they both are strong, they are both fast, etc. For her to ever stand alone as the hero that she could be, she needs to become her own woman and not just a girl Superman.
Yes, there are some very good stories regarding Wonder Woman. Gail Simone, the current writer of the book has put together some great stories recently. But even under Simone, Wonder Woman is still as confused as ever. In fact, in some ways, Simone has made the mythos even more confused than it already was. Under Simone, Wonder Woman now has her own posse of white gorilla warriors. She abandoned her Greek gods and pledged a vow of loyalty to some other guy, who recently had his heart ripped out by Zeus.
The whole thing is just a giant mess of confusion. This is one iconic character in desperate need of some focus.
The idea behind this thread was inspired by discussion that came up in the thread titled "Final Crisis and also how to fix DC Comics" which can be found here: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=81523 Specifically, the discussion about the confused state of the Wonder Woman mythos begins on page 21 of that thread.
DC has built up 3 characters as the Trinity of DC comics: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. The first two are very obvious as to why they are included. They are both iconic powerhouses that have been around for a really long time and have saturated almost every facet of our culture.
But the inclusion of Wonder Woman confuses a lot of people. Her presence in the DC continuity is not so clearly defined. As I titled this thread, Wonder Woman is some what of a confused cultural icon, and I would like to discuss this confusion in more depth in this thread, as well as hopefully discuss some reasonable solutions to fixing her mythos.
So who is Wonder Woman? This is a question that even DC seems to be trying to answer. The opening story arc in the 2007 Wonder Woman relaunch is actually titled "Who is Wonder Woman"
Wonder Woman is an Amazonian Princess. She comes from the mythical island of Themyscira. She is the daughter of Queen Hyppolyta. She was trained as a warrior princess and possesses the physical attributes of the Greek pantheon. She has the speed of Hermes, the wisdom of Athena, the grace of Artemis, and a few other things.
But her powers are not very clearly defined. Her power level is largely dependent on the writer. Some writers depict her as being as fast as the Flash, or as strong as Superman, yet other writers have her tossed around like a rag doll. She lacks a clear consistency on how fast, strong, smart, she really is.
Another aspect is that her costume does not in any way, shape, or form indicate her Greek mythology herritage.
What part of a Red, White, and Blue bathing suit indicates that she's an Amazon Princess? Her costume is a relic of World War 2 when she was created. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:
Created during World War II, the character was initially depicted fighting the Axis military forces, as well as an assortment of supervillains and supervillainesses. In later decades, some writers and their editors preferred to retain the World War II setting, while others updated the series to reflect an ongoing "present day."
"Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who should, I believe, rule the world," Marston wrote.[7] Although Gloria Steinem placed Wonder Woman on the first standalone cover of Ms. in 1972, Marston, writing in an earlier time, designed Wonder Woman to represent a particular form of female empowerment. Feminism argues that women are equal to men and should be treated as such; Marston's representative of femininity is a 6-foot-tall Amazon wielding a golden lasso that forces obedience of those encircled. In Marston's mind, women not only held the potential to be as good as men: they could be superior to men.
So she's a feminist, Nazi fighting Greek that wields a lasso, which is traditionally a part of the American Western cowboy genre.
Her history, origin, costume, powers, tools, and purpose are so muddled and confused that its no doubt she isn't as popular as her two counterparts in the trinity. That being said, I think she has the potential to be awesome. What DC needs to do is bring in a writer with a clear vision and purpose and completely rebuild Wonder Woman from the ground up. If she's going to be Greek, then her costume and abilities need to reflect this. If she's going to be an American patriotic hero, then maybe she needs to fight some Nazis every now and again. Its 2009 and Captain America still fights Nazis so there's no reason Wonder Woman can't also.
Most of all, I think they really need to work to differentiate her from Superman. Most writers tend to just write her as a female version of him. They both fly, they both are strong, they are both fast, etc. For her to ever stand alone as the hero that she could be, she needs to become her own woman and not just a girl Superman.
Yes, there are some very good stories regarding Wonder Woman. Gail Simone, the current writer of the book has put together some great stories recently. But even under Simone, Wonder Woman is still as confused as ever. In fact, in some ways, Simone has made the mythos even more confused than it already was. Under Simone, Wonder Woman now has her own posse of white gorilla warriors. She abandoned her Greek gods and pledged a vow of loyalty to some other guy, who recently had his heart ripped out by Zeus.
The whole thing is just a giant mess of confusion. This is one iconic character in desperate need of some focus.
Lucascraft on
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And yes, that movie was pretty fantastic.
Also, I'd like someone to give her pants, or maybe the skirt again. The bathing suit is pretty ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Although in this most recent arc, I'm not sure if she will continue to use Diana Prince anymore. I'm pretty sure the chief knows who she is now.
I agree, but when I tried to figure out why, I came up with the fact that they made it surprisingly bad ass/violent. I don't think that's enough to carry the character in the on-going. They try to do this, making her one of the only icons to have taken a life, or making her more battle-hungry than Superman, but it doesn't add dimension to the character. She needs some good stories that stick, things in her canon that can be used to build off of for future stories.
I will definitely check out that Manazons event, though.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
The best outfit I've seen is a full suit of battle armor she wore in this most recent arc
Pic spoilered due to size.
Also, in New Frontier, she's pretty hot in a toga:
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
But, hey- she's still selling, so it's not like there's a pressing need, is there?
One problem I see is that it's hard to reference her Amazon-ness without making her outfit seem too trapped in the past. Outfits that are neither outdated nor swimsuits just don't feel like her, though.
And for anyone who's wondering, this is what she looks like as a cowboy.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Once again, Project Rooftop continues to underwhelm.
Didn't a poster here come up with a bunch of awesome Wonder Woman designs? They might have even been for that contest. Those designs were awesome.
As for the rest, Gail seems to be breaking her down just to create an opportunity to rebuild, so I'd hang on for awhile before making any claims about how much work Wonder Woman needs.
Edit: DMAC participated in that contest. He usually runs his stuff through here before choosing one to submit.
Wasn't this the design he submitted?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
No! It's because Themyscira doesn't consist of 6 billion+ people scattered all over the globe, divided into many nations and cultures. The very concept of scarcity is foreign to the Amazons. They don't have to deal with differences in climate and stuff.
They had one job. Keep Ares prisoner. And they botched it.
It was Steve Trevor's job to introduce her to America and maybe shed light on some of the cultural differences. He tries to get her drunk. Maybe not the best way to bridge cultures.
But, you know, the pictures were pretty and I liked the fights.
I agree that they need to decide on an identity for Wonder Woman. And if they decide to push the feminist aspect, at least have it make sense. The movie makes it seem that, if people want peace and comfort, they should just become immortal and get their own paradise.
And maybe make the feminist aspect a bit more nuanced than showing a little girl excluded from sword fights. There was also this scene where WW showers disdain on Etta Candy, who is an air force fucking officer, when she manipulates Steve Trevor into moving a desk. It was both contrived and actually hurts the feminist cause. It implies that the only legitimate way of gaining authority/power is by strength of arm.
Okay, rant over.
We aren't supposed to view Amazonian society as perfect or Wonder Woman's judgment as infallible. Hell, if the fact that there was a rebellion in the first place wasn't proof enough that the Amazonian philosophy is a flawed one, the main female villain's last words pretty clearly indicate that a society free from men is doomed to fail because a partnership between the sexes is essential.
That said, Diana and her people aren't all wrong either, and they both present a great vehicle for social commentary. You just can't let it get too heavy-handed or derogatory, because nobody wants to be lectured about things they already know.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
It is, but I think the costume is good.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Yeah... if we're bringing in costumes from the Wonder family, then the clear winner is...
I cannot say I agree.
You sir have no taste. But, to be fair, you can't see the kneepads in that picture. The kneepads bring the whole look together.
Isn't the first one just the same battle armor as from Kingdom Come?
It won't, but I do think people are right to say that the costume exemplifies some of the core problems about the character, namely her conflicting character traits. She's a diplomat from a foreign country, but she's a patriotic symbol for ours. She's a warrior and a female role model, but her costume is impractical for a warrior and does exactly command respect.
Furthermore, changing her costume is the first step towards changing our perception of her. After all, Luke Cage wouldn't be where he is today if he hadn't ditched his tiara.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Hawkman + WW = probably doing it in the blood of slain monsters because they just love killing things
Batman + WW = the only human good enough to schtupp a Goddess
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Superman and Batman were such complete judgemental pricks.
Both are stubborn, but are completely fine with the way they do stuff and realizing that they can bring their strengths to the table. Batman never told WW who to punch, just gave a plan that would best use her talents. And she never questioned it because that's all Batman does, is plan. Neither one was the superior one in the relationship, for all 5 issues it was (if that).
And they were funny together, you had this flirting that worked, because Diana isn't scared of Batman and he knows she's just as quick witted as he is.
Are we really supposed to believe that he wouldn't have killed Lord?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Wonder Woman was raised as a warrior. She has just as good of a mind for tactics and planning as Batman does, but WW rarely sets the plans for the team. I think they out to make her the strategist for the JLA.
Superman only killed once, and that's been retconned out, it seems, with Zod coming back.