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What we need more of [Science dummy]

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Posts

  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Esquire.

    Weaver on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    weaver you have a corn cob pipe, right?

    Mysst on
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  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I am not sold on Ethanol

    BusterK on
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  • tuggatugga Makin' movies Makin' songsRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Snowbeat wrote: »
    I might join the navy and become a nuclear engineer

    is that science-y enough

    better idea: go through school and graduate with a degree, then work for the military as a contractor

    bookoo dollahs

    tugga on
  • the wookthe wook Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    something something yadda yadda obtaining ethanol from sugarcane is supposed to be a much more efficient process. though i don't know how it stands on water consumption.

    the wook on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    I'm confident there are other plants we could grow for biofuel that require significantly less water than corn

    it's all about the powerful corn lobby

    Druhim on
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    How much work/money would it take to convert from corn to more efficient biofuels?

    How long-term would be we talking about probably before it starts paying off?

    Khavall on
  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    I'm confident there are other plants we could grow for biofuel that require significantly less water than corn

    it's all about the powerful corn lobby

    Yeah the corn part is biggest problem I have with Ethanol

    BusterK on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    I don't have links right now, but there have been recent SciAm stories about how some grasses would serve very well for biofuel

    really, you just need the cellulose and corn is a grass
    just one that was heavily hybridized thousands of years ago

    Druhim on
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  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    I don't have links right now, but there have been recent SciAm stories about how some grasses would serve very well for biofuel

    really, you just need the cellulose and corn is a grass
    just one that was heavily hybridized thousands of years ago

    Ever see a car get 40 mpg
    On weeeeed?

    BusterK on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    more like 40 mpt
    (miles per toke lol)

    Druhim on
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  • Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    loooool

    Randall_Flagg on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    But really, with the idea of better biofuels but the Corn lobby holding it down...

    Are we talking something like if we converted to grass crops for fuel we'd see the profit 5 years down the line over corn biofuel or if we converted to grass crops for fuel in 500 years we'd see the profit over corn biofuel? Ultimately, yes going with the better solution for economy and environment is best, but if we're going towards a net loss over the next 499 years 'till it catches the theory of better isn't necessarily the "Best" solution. Much like keeping fossil fuels still works because changing the fuel isn't immediately economically feasible.

    Khavall on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    Druhim on
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  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Are you saying I should be putting my lawn clippings into my gas tank?

    BYToady on
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  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    and if we got rid of fucking corn they would stop the agave field destruction!

    (druhim's real reason to stop the corn lobby)

    Dead Legend on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    and if we got rid of fucking corn they would stop the agave field destruction!

    (druhim's real reason to stop the corn lobby)
    shhhh!

    Druhim on
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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?

    Khavall on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?
    what? are you fucking high?

    that makes no goddamn sense

    sure, different crops have different requirements but you're just being absurd here acting like there's some massive corn infrastructure that would need to be torn up to allow farmers to grow something else

    you do realize that many farmers change crops from time to time, right?

    Druhim on
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  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    crop rotation

    doesn't burn out the soil

    saves the nutrients in the soil so it doesn't get shitty (there's a technical term here involving a high iron count that i learned about but i forgot it)

    laterite?

    laterization?

    or is that when shit gets deforested

    both i guess

    Dead Legend on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    also I was wrong earlier when I said we get ethanol from the cellulose, it's from the sugar stored in the corn

    which brings up the fact that sugar cane is easier to raise, and easier to extract sugar from for producing ethanol than corn is

    corn is estimated (and it's considered a generous estimate, many claim it's under 1.0) that the energy returned on energy invested is only 1.34 for corn, but 8 for sugar cane (in other words, best case corn returns 34% more energy when used to produce ethanol, sugar cane produces 700% more)

    Brazil also produces a large amount of ethanol for mixing into their gasoline, only they grow sugar cane for their ethanol because they don't have a bloated corn lobby protecting their interests

    Druhim on
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  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    What on earth is a corn cozy?

    Lost Salient on
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  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    There's also the problem of food shortages from using so much of our food and fertile land for fuel

    BusterK on
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  • BYToadyBYToady Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    My god man, if we didn't produce as much corn, what would happen to the corn palace?

    BYToady on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    What on earth is a corn cozy?
    ok, you know that thing between your legs that bleeds roughly once a month?

    Druhim on
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    also I was wrong earlier when I said we get ethanol from the cellulose, it's from the sugar stored in the corn

    which brings up the fact that sugar cane is easier to raise, and easier to extract sugar from for producing ethanol than corn is

    corn is estimated (and it's considered a generous estimate, many claim it's under 1.0) that the energy returned on energy invested is only 1.34 for corn, but 8 for sugar cane (in other words, best case corn returns 34% more energy when used to produce ethanol, sugar cane produces 700% more)

    Brazil also produces a large amount of ethanol for mixing into their gasoline, only they grow sugar cane for their ethanol because they don't have a bloated corn lobby protecting their interests
    Too bad the corn lobby is stronger.

    Hacksaw on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?
    what? are you fucking high?

    that makes no goddamn sense

    sure, different crops have different requirements but you're just being absurd here acting like there's some massive corn infrastructure that would need to be torn up to allow farmers to grow something else

    you do realize that many farmers change crops from time to time, right?

    So it wouldn't be a problem?

    There's a way to just answer the question... Yeah, I don't understand anything about farming.

    I'm wondering if it would be a problem. I guess there wouldn't be. So what is the corn lobby's argument against alternate crops? I'm just trying to understand the situation here. If there are better solution, why aren't we subsidizing them? If there's a problem switching to them... that'd make sense.

    I understand the idea of lobbyists going for causes that may not be in the best interest of everyone and the country because they have their own personal agenda, but I'm just trying to understand the situation here.

    Khavall on
  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?
    what? are you fucking high?

    that makes no goddamn sense

    sure, different crops have different requirements but you're just being absurd here acting like there's some massive corn infrastructure that would need to be torn up to allow farmers to grow something else

    you do realize that many farmers change crops from time to time, right?

    So it wouldn't be a problem?

    There's a way to just answer the question... Yeah, I don't understand anything about farming.

    I'm wondering if it would be a problem. I guess there wouldn't be. So what is the corn lobby's argument against alternate crops? I'm just trying to understand the situation here. If there are better solution, why aren't we subsidizing them? If there's a problem switching to them... that'd make sense.

    I understand the idea of lobbyists going for causes that may not be in the best interest of everyone and the country because they have their own personal agenda, but I'm just trying to understand the situation here.
    BECAUSE OTHER CROPS AREN'T CORN AND DON'T LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH SOLID GOLD COCAINE

    duh

    Druhim on
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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?
    what? are you fucking high?

    that makes no goddamn sense

    sure, different crops have different requirements but you're just being absurd here acting like there's some massive corn infrastructure that would need to be torn up to allow farmers to grow something else

    you do realize that many farmers change crops from time to time, right?

    So it wouldn't be a problem?

    There's a way to just answer the question... Yeah, I don't understand anything about farming.

    I'm wondering if it would be a problem. I guess there wouldn't be. So what is the corn lobby's argument against alternate crops? I'm just trying to understand the situation here. If there are better solution, why aren't we subsidizing them? If there's a problem switching to them... that'd make sense.

    I understand the idea of lobbyists going for causes that may not be in the best interest of everyone and the country because they have their own personal agenda, but I'm just trying to understand the situation here.

    We use HFCS in soda in America because it we are the only place in the world where it is cheaper to grow corn than sugar.

    Switching to a new crop and maintaining profitability would mean ditching your corn subsidies and getting congress to make new ones for another plant, which is difficult and risky, not to mention there are some places where you just plain can't grow the sugar and the people who own that land aren't giving up the subsidies no matter what.

    Plus it's makin us all fatties

    MrMonroe on
  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    What on earth is a corn cozy?
    ok, you know that thing between your legs that bleeds roughly once a month?

    :|

    Lost Salient on
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    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    Khavall wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    why would corn be that much more profitable than anything else we could grow? the hypothetical situation you've presented makes no sense

    If we already have Corn crops being grown like crazy I can't imagine we could just switch over for free... the sunk costs of changing crops would need to be considered if we're going to put forwards better crops.


    I mean, what's the corn lobby fighting for even if it's more profitable, and better for the environment to grow other things as fuel, as long as enough farmers grow corn for the HFCS demand?
    what? are you fucking high?

    that makes no goddamn sense

    sure, different crops have different requirements but you're just being absurd here acting like there's some massive corn infrastructure that would need to be torn up to allow farmers to grow something else

    you do realize that many farmers change crops from time to time, right?

    So it wouldn't be a problem?

    There's a way to just answer the question... Yeah, I don't understand anything about farming.

    I'm wondering if it would be a problem. I guess there wouldn't be. So what is the corn lobby's argument against alternate crops? I'm just trying to understand the situation here. If there are better solution, why aren't we subsidizing them? If there's a problem switching to them... that'd make sense.

    I understand the idea of lobbyists going for causes that may not be in the best interest of everyone and the country because they have their own personal agenda, but I'm just trying to understand the situation here.

    We use HFCS in soda in America because it we are the only place in the world where it is cheaper to grow corn than sugar.

    Switching to a new crop and maintaining profitability would mean ditching your corn subsidies and getting congress to make new ones for another plant, which is difficult and risky, not to mention there are some places where you just plain can't grow the sugar and the people who own that land aren't giving up the subsidies no matter what.

    Plus it's makin us all fatties

    So, and correct me if I've got it wrong, but we subsidize corn because we already subsidize corn, despite the fact that there are biofuels that could be better served with another crop, and many corn farmers could switch over to sugar instead of HFCS's stupid monopoly on being in everything, but we would *gasp* need to pass something through congress to fix the retarded situation?


    The fuck is wrong with everyone.

    Khavall on
  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Also everyone is getting paid mad dollar bills to make a lot of useless corn

    BusterK on
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  • ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    so Amazon.com hates the gays, apparently

    they claim it is a "glitch" in the listing system which is being fixed as we speak

    so they have birthed an artificial intelligence within their site code, and it's a bigot :|

    Hey Monroe

    You know why everyone jumped down your throat for this post?

    Because leaping to an outlandish conclusion based on little to no evidence is the exact opposite of science.

    See?

    Butler on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 2009
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Butler wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    so Amazon.com hates the gays, apparently

    they claim it is a "glitch" in the listing system which is being fixed as we speak

    so they have birthed an artificial intelligence within their site code, and it's a bigot :|

    Hey Monroe

    You know why everyone jumped down your throat for this post?

    Because leaping to an outlandish conclusion based on little to no evidence is the exact opposite of science.

    See?
    Except that proves that it wasn't a random "glitch" like Amazon claimed and instead a specific and deliberate removal of LGBT books... it's just that the responsible agency was misplaced.

    Khavall on
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    i wish we used actual sugar in more products in the US. :\

    Metzger Meister on
  • BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    mexican soda owns qtiyd

    There are some cane sugar sodas in the U.S.
    Hanson's for one

    BusterK on
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  • DruhimDruhim Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    what's bizarre to me is that Coca Cola still doesn't make Coke with sucrose in the states, even though plenty of it is being imported from Mexico. You'd think that would be an incentive to produce and sell it in the states for more than the hfcs versions, but less than the Mexican Coke

    Druhim on
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 2009
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
This discussion has been closed.