JUST Black Panther Thread

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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Nogs wrote: »
    I can't wait until BP and Storm have marital problems and the entire country of Wakanda goes into drought.

    But what I find interesting about this whole debate of "BP is an ass, he has the tech to cure cancer and be a humanitarian, but he doesn't" is that Storm isn't screaming down his back to make it so.

    I mean, here is Storm who is actually one of the few superheroes who HAS used their powers to help a community. Didn't she spend quite a few years in Africa, bringing rain and ensuring there are no droughts? I mean, I figure she should bring out a lot more dialogue concerning Wakanda's global position of world-tech-leader to help other nations. I think what a lot of people here dislike about Hudlin's run, is that Storm doesn't seem to think certain things are important anymore.

    Like the dress comment. Mask said 'its because she is a girl' that she is all worried about the dress. And yeah, sure, maybe its nice to see Storm as having a more 'normal' side to her. Problem with that is, she has never BEEN normal, all history and background of her would make one think the dress would be the LAST thing on her mind.

    And the complaints about Storm hugging BP while BP stares defiantly into space showing Storm as the lesser of the two are totally right. I mean who the fuck hugs like that? I don't know one person who ISN'T a dick that has a girl hang on them while they practically ignore the girl. I mean fuck, they are married, if you are gonna have them hug at least let them look at each other when they do it.

    Storm has one fo the strongest female personalities of marvel, and she is just swooooooning over BP. Its cool though, she is in love - right? Then why isn't BP depicted just as much swooning over Storm (and the whole 'Imma brush my hand against your cheek and you'll do anything I say' move doesn't count).

    All that said though, I don't mind it, after all relatively speaking they have only been married for a few weeks at most. I'll let most of it go as some sort of newly-wed dream. But if after 6 months to a year in the Marvel Universe, Storm is STILL acting like this - then someone is writing like shit. Keep in mind, I think BP himself is being portrayed fine for the most part, its Storm's character that is off.

    You are officially my new hero.

    And if Hudlin isn't to blame, then there is a concerted effort at Marvel to take one of the only strong, black, female characters in the MU and make her into a pathetic housewife.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2007
    yes, i'm sure that marvel made a conscious decision to crap up a famous character, just for giggles.

    'guys, let's see if anyone guesses what we're doing, hee hee!'

    'uh oh, sentry's on to us! cheese it, joey q!'

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    You know, sarcasm is the lowest form of humor.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2007
    i would have thought poop jokes

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I don't nearly have enough time with this character to make a correct judgment whether or not the writer is mucking it up, or if anyone in this thread is full of shit. The only thing I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that when I read my unc's copy of BP #23....that has to be the ugliest fucking interior art I have ever seen in my life. Uglier than Marvel 2099 ugly. It looks like it was inked using donuts and shattered dreams.

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yay, someone else steps up to the plate. This could be fun.
    Nogs wrote: »
    I can't wait until BP and Storm have marital problems and the entire country of Wakanda goes into drought.

    Are you implying that Storm is impetuous and petty?
    But what I find interesting about this whole debate of "BP is an ass, he has the tech to cure cancer and be a humanitarian, but he doesn't" is that Storm isn't screaming down his back to make it so.

    I mean, here is Storm who is actually one of the few superheroes who HAS used their powers to help a community. Didn't she spend quite a few years in Africa, bringing rain and ensuring there are no droughts? I mean, I figure she should bring out a lot more dialogue concerning Wakanda's global position of world-tech-leader to help other nations. I think what a lot of people here dislike about Hudlin's run, is that Storm doesn't seem to think certain things are important anymore.

    At this point, I'd wonder if she even knows about all the awesome shit Wakanda has. But if you want to look at humanitarian stuff, part 4 of the world tour arc shows them giving out mechanical replacement limbs to kids in Rwanda.

    Oh, and they only just got married. Give it time.
    Like the dress comment. Mask said 'its because she is a girl' that she is all worried about the dress. And yeah, sure, maybe its nice to see Storm as having a more 'normal' side to her. Problem with that is, she has never BEEN normal, all history and background of her would make one think the dress would be the LAST thing on her mind.

    Okay, I really have to ask this: How many of you have been through a wedding? And not "went to the courthouse" wedding, but a real ceremony with all the pomp and circumstance. I don't give a shit what you say, Storm is just as much a woman as any other, and she's human, and the wedding day is a HUGE event for almost all women. Every detail is important. I'm really surprised that you are belaboring this point.
    And the complaints about Storm hugging BP while BP stares defiantly into space showing Storm as the lesser of the two are totally right. I mean who the fuck hugs like that? I don't know one person who ISN'T a dick that has a girl hang on them while they practically ignore the girl. I mean fuck, they are married, if you are gonna have them hug at least let them look at each other when they do it.

    I said it before that I've hugged my wife like that and she's hugged me like that. Countless other couples do the same. It's a very affectionate thing to do, in my opinion. Oh, and if you'll look at the picture, you'll notice that they're both looking in the same direction; Storm is not gazing at BP or anything. Christ, I can understand nitpicking, but nitpicking this image is ridiculous. You're seeing the absolute worst in what is actually a very nice little image.
    Storm has one fo the strongest female personalities of marvel, and she is just swooooooning over BP. Its cool though, she is in love - right? Then why isn't BP depicted just as much swooning over Storm (and the whole 'Imma brush my hand against your cheek and you'll do anything I say' move doesn't count).

    What do you count as "swooning"? I can't really respond to this point if you're not specific, and I'm sure not just gonna take you at your word.
    All that said though, I don't mind it, after all relatively speaking they have only been married for a few weeks at most. I'll let most of it go as some sort of newly-wed dream. But if after 6 months to a year in the Marvel Universe, Storm is STILL acting like this - then someone is writing like shit. Keep in mind, I think BP himself is being portrayed fine for the most part, its Storm's character that is off.

    I'd say you have a very rational view of things and I agree. We'd better not be in the same general place a year from now with regards to Storm and T'Challa's relationship (and a lot of other things too).

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    I don't nearly have enough time with this character to make a correct judgment whether or not the writer is mucking it up, or if anyone in this thread is full of shit. The only thing I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that when I read my unc's copy of BP #23....that has to be the ugliest fucking interior art I have ever seen in my life. Uglier than Marvel 2099 ugly. It looks like it was inked using donuts and shattered dreams.

    Yeah, that art was hit or miss. Too many hands working on it. They wised up and got one penciller for issue 25 forward.

    Also, I got my copy of #25 today. My initial impression is that it sorta ended flat. I dunno, I'll need to read through again to get the full extent of how good it was or was not.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • BriareosBriareos Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    :shock:

    (As in, how I felt when I saw the new thread title.)

    Briareos on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited February 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »

    At this point, I'd wonder if she even knows about all the awesome shit Wakanda has. But if you want to look at humanitarian stuff, part 4 of the world tour arc shows them giving out mechanical replacement limbs to kids in Rwanda.

    and he came to new orleans to help out katrina victims because he didn't think the government was doing enough

    edit- granted, 'helping' turned out to mean 'battling vampires' but he didn't know that when he got there

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Servo wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »

    At this point, I'd wonder if she even knows about all the awesome shit Wakanda has. But if you want to look at humanitarian stuff, part 4 of the world tour arc shows them giving out mechanical replacement limbs to kids in Rwanda.

    and he came to new orleans to help out katrina victims because he didn't think the government was doing enough

    edit- granted, 'helping' turned out to mean 'battling vampires' but he didn't know that when he got there

    But really, what greater public service is their besides killing vampires.

    Marathon on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    0006tz6h

    Bloods End on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Blood's End, that's hilarious. Where is it from?

    mattharvest on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    So, issue #25. Man, T'Challa's such a micro manager. I can sorta see what you guys were saying about him telling Monica what to do. The way Hudlin writes him, he strikes me as someone who is used to having his directions followed and isn't very good at reigning that in sometimes (like in a battle). The battle bits will probably make you guys groan, especially when
    T'Challa takes time out from smacking Taskmaster in order to give both Monica and Luke some fighting advice.

    I liked Storm in this issue. She faced up Clor, threw some hard shit at him, and came up with a good way to take him down. She had a good hero and queen moment that I liked quite a bit.
    The bit where Sue and Storm watch Hercules beat up Clor...I'm not really feeling that bit. It strikes me as not very like either of the women to act like that.

    Finally, even though it's not explicitly mentioned, one of the plot threads is moving forward.
    Clor basically destroys the Wakandan Embassy while fighting Storm. Tony wonders if it can be considered an act of war, and T'Challa says that it can.

    Not a bad issue but, like the CW main series, for all the nice build up in the previous issues, the ending just isn't up to the same quality.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yeah, just read the latest BP.
    By the way, I didn't buy it: my local comic store seems content that I buy trades every two weeks or so to let me read comics without damaging them.

    Anyway, Hudlin and BP conspire to make our argument for us.

    The first thing, and oddly the thing that irritates me the most, is T'Challa's claim that this little computer card of his has near infinite abilities. Come. Freaking. ON! Hudlin, seriously, this is just stupid...all this technology was developed in the last twenty years since T'Chaka started sending people to colleges around the world? Give me a break...

    The second is of course BP's continued teaching of Monica as if she were an idiot. In actual battle, she forgets how to use her powers...because she's angry...she has incredible powers for the last ten or twenty years, but forgets how to use them...because she's angry.

    The third is Luke Cage's inexplicable performance with outdated slang and an explicit desire to be taught by BP. BP's suggestion? That Doc Samson is open to a right hook...again we have Luke Cage, a professional scrapper, and he apparently doesn't notice Doc Samson has an open jaw. Wow.

    Storm does derail Clor, but even then her and Sue's actions seem pretty inappropriate. This is Hudlin, not BP...

    mattharvest on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Just from the description, I don't get
    How a person who LEAD THE AVENGERS needs pointers on how to fight.

    Bloods End on
  • blackranger3dblackranger3d Registered User
    edited February 2007
    I love BP, one of my favourite characters.
    But dear god is Hudlin ever screwing him up.

    It seems like with each new issue the panther becomes more and more powerful and Wakanda technology more advanced.

    Fuck the way it is going he is going to, single handedly kick the shit out of the sentry.

    blackranger3d on
    BOOM SHACK A LAKA
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Yeah, just read the latest BP.
    By the way, I didn't buy it: my local comic store seems content that I buy trades every two weeks or so to let me read comics without damaging them.

    Anyway, Hudlin and BP conspire to make our argument for us.

    The first thing, and oddly the thing that irritates me the most, is T'Challa's claim that this little computer card of his has near infinite abilities. Come. Freaking. ON! Hudlin, seriously, this is just stupid...all this technology was developed in the last twenty years since T'Chaka started sending people to colleges around the world? Give me a break...

    The second is of course BP's continued teaching of Monica as if she were an idiot. In actual battle, she forgets how to use her powers...because she's angry...she has incredible powers for the last ten or twenty years, but forgets how to use them...because she's angry.

    The third is Luke Cage's inexplicable performance with outdated slang and an explicit desire to be taught by BP. BP's suggestion? That Doc Samson is open to a right hook...again we have Luke Cage, a professional scrapper, and he apparently doesn't notice Doc Samson has an open jaw. Wow.

    Storm does derail Clor, but even then her and Sue's actions seem pretty inappropriate. This is Hudlin, not BP...

    I think we more or less agree on those points, with the exception of the Kimoyo card. My understanding of it is that it's a deus ex machina of sorts, and its complete set of abilities haven't been disclosed yet. Also, I'd say that the basis for much of the Wakandan tech that is available now is from more than 20 years ago.

    But, yeah, the stuff with Monica and Luke hit the wrong notes for me. It makes me feel like T'Challa doesn't trust them to take care of themselves, which is stupid.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    The thing is, there is an easy way to make the things mentioned into awesome character flaws, ones that enhance the feeling to T'Challa as a real person and let us as readers get to know him better.

    Make it so he doesn't trust outsiders, that he's so used to being obeyed that he acts like that to people because it's his nature. Let him lecture Luke Cage and Wolverine... I would expect a king from an isolationist nation to exhibit some of those qualities (discounting prior incarnations of BP, I am talking about a ret con from everything I've read here).

    All you need to do then is have the reaction from people be more negative... like, fuck BP, I've been doing this for years, back the hell off. Then you have a character with a flaw, one that can be both good and bad, which opens up room for growth and some awesome situations. Also, it allows you to keep a strong, black, male figure in the Marvel U. without diminishing anyone else.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • O.C.O.C. Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Just read it, wow even I was pissed at this issue. I cant belive I am saying this, but lol I agree with Sentry, Luke Cage needed to be like "excuse me, I can fight just fine"

    O.C. on
    who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. -- Theodore Roosevelt
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    I think it'll be hilarious to see him have T'Challa do the same thing when he's in the Fantastic Four. Or, you know, it could be terrible, if McDuffie doesn't follow suit in FF.

    Either way, it either needs to get made into a proper character flaw which other characters will react appropriately to, or it needs to be fixed. Having both Monica and Luke accepting his advice without at least bristling at it was weird. Worse, Luke actually asking for it...just wrong. If anything, Luke knows how to smack motherfuckers up. He needs no advice for that.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    wwtMask wrote: »
    I think it'll be hilarious to see him have T'Challa do the same thing when he's in the Fantastic Four. Or, you know, it could be terrible, if McDuffie doesn't follow suit in FF.
    See, that's the problem with what Hudlin has done: he's made this character unusable except as an ass.
    Either way, it either needs to get made into a proper character flaw which other characters will react appropriately to, or it needs to be fixed. Having both Monica and Luke accepting his advice without at least bristling at it was weird. Worse, Luke actually asking for it...just wrong. If anything, Luke knows how to smack motherfuckers up. He needs no advice for that.
    I find it hilarious how much of an about-face you've done here. Bravo for being intellectually honest with yourself and realizing that at least some of what Hudlin has done here is just unacceptable. It's rare that web posters make such progress, and you deserve credit for it.

    That said, Luke Cage couldn't have been written more ridiculously...it's just insane...what is Hudlin thinking?

    mattharvest on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    That said, Luke Cage couldn't have been written more ridiculously...it's just insane...what is Hudlin thinking?

    "Well, Luke Cage is black. I am also black. Therefor I would have a better idea of how he would work, so I can ignore how he's been used in the past and do my own thing."

    Bloods End on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Bloods End wrote: »
    That said, Luke Cage couldn't have been written more ridiculously...it's just insane...what is Hudlin thinking?

    "Well, Luke Cage is black. I am also black. Therefor I would have a better idea of how he would work, so I can ignore how he's been used in the past and do my own thing."

    Bingo.

    mattharvest on
  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Well, to be fair, I did like Luke quite a bit in the "Bad Mutha" arc. The problem I had in this issue was that the way he was presented didn't jibe with the way Hudlin wrote him back then. My only other experience with Luke is in New Avengers, so take that as you will.

    I wouldn't call it an about face so much as say that this was a "wtf Reggie" issue for me. I'm not gonna try to defend it because the mentioned parts were just bad. Even the parts that I thought were pretty good are kinda overshadowed by the bad stuff. That said, I still like the book and even Hudlin writing it, but this one was just a real let down after the five previous, better issues. I hope he steps it up next month.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited February 2007
    Bloods End wrote: »
    That said, Luke Cage couldn't have been written more ridiculously...it's just insane...what is Hudlin thinking?

    "Well, Luke Cage is black. I am also black. Therefor I would have a better idea of how he would work, so I can ignore how he's been used in the past and do my own thing."

    Bingo.

    This isn't the first time that this same thing happened. In the wedding issue Cage was pressuring Jessica to move to Wakanda to avoid CW, when he refused to run when she was begging him to come with their child to Canada.

    Bloods End on
  • O.C.O.C. Registered User
    edited February 2007
    Wow, you are right, not even being sarcastic. I hadn't even realized how much Hudlin had changed Luke Cage's characterization in relation to the New Avengers. I LOVE New Avengers 22 with Luke Cage's speech about not wanting to leave. He is presented as strong and firm, and inspiring figure. Where as in Black Panther all he does is look up to him and say "thats was my piece back in the day" in reference to a gun when fighting vampires. Which begs another question, if you have unbreakable skin are you really worried about being bitten? I still really like the book, but perhaps I overlooked to much of the problems in favor of really enjoying a book. Seriously, issue 25 way to kill my arguments. I still feel this character has been advanced greatly, but there needs to be a course correction with his arrogance or at least have other characters react to it.

    O.C. on
    who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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