But the gist of it is, that 5 men thought it would appear better to be a victim of gay rape than to be seen as gay.
Thats a hell of a defense strategy, but with at least one of the victims admitting that they are gay; not so compelling.
A Pensacola paramedic later testified that he and Taylor were friends and had consensual sex on a previous occasion before the two met again at a bar in July 2004. The man said that he had one beer and that Taylor then bought him a shot, which caused him to become extremely ill.
He said that he woke up in Taylor's home and that Taylor raped him repeatedly, but that he couldn't fight Taylor because he felt drugged.
And, man, I thought the Army got the rainbow ribbon for something else. Our BMT ribbon for the Air Force is MUCH more hetero... (I'll link it later)
I find it amusing that other service branches get a ribbon just for getting through bootcamp.
Congratulations! You meet the bare minimum standards to do the job, have some chest candy!
well obviously this is because Navy boot camp is so easy it doesen't warrent a ribbon
duh :P
The fact that the chair force has a boot camp ribbon shoots your logic full of big, gaping, vaginal holes.
Maaaaaaaan, I can't even make a gay joke here, can I? I was conditioned to do that by the AF in AF Sneaker Camp, by the by. Beforehand, I was a socially concsious liberal.
And yes, AF gets the GWOT ribbon, too. I tend not to wear my ribbons on my blues, though, unless it's full dress. I haven't done that much cool stuff to warrent showing off. But as much as I think the GWOT ribbon is bullshit, that is primarily what I do every damn day. I may be over here, but I'm about 6 seconds away from the action, given the time delay.
And to make this post OT, I don't care if the guy next to me looking at feed is Harvey Firestien. Just let the other kids know where they have to blow shit up.
Evil, I have to get to work, but I'll try to send you a PM about everything I've had to go through getting out, as not to derail the thread.
Topic related: There was a case of a chaplain in the R&R program in Qatar taking Marines out to bars "friendly like" and drugging them before cornholing them back at base. I really wish I could find a link for that.
I'm not sure how I feel about this story... On one hand, it's the word of 5 people against his, so it's very possible he did it. But I can also totally see guys going to this length to hide their sexuality from the military. Especially guys that aren't sure of how they feel.
I have a feeling this occurred in a sort of grey area. They were probably really drunk and were willing at the time, but regretted it later and wanted to cover it up. Also, somehow I doubt someone would bother to drug that many guys when honestly, it's not that hard to hook up in the gay community. (a bit of a stereotype but true)
I would like to see more of the evidence presented but I doubt the military will release that. Hell, there only seems to be one AP reporter working the story.
If he didn't do it, this isn't the last we'll hear of it I think. Eventually one of the guys will crack and spill the beans. If he did do it, well, he'll get what he deserves I suppose.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Why does he always flee whenever I wade into the fray? I never get a chance to slap him around properly like the rest of you seem to.
I think he can handle being called a dickhead by the rest of us, because he can fall back on his whole "I'm infantry, so I'm more hardcore than them anyway" defense...if only in his own head.
When you tell him he's a dickhead, he has to deal with the fact that he is, in fact, a dickhead.
At least, that's what I'm guessing.
Nobody else here is/was infantry, right? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
Once a Marine, always a Marine. That pretty much sums up the life of retired Sgt. Eric Alva, who was sworn into the Marine Corps at 19, stationed in Somalia and Japan and lost his right leg when he stepped on a land mine on March 21, 2003, the first day of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
As the war's first injured soldier, Alva was an instant celebrity. He was on "Oprah." President Bush awarded him the Purple Heart. Donald Rumsfeld visited. And strangers in Alva's native San Antonio still insist on paying for his dinner at Chili's. Last fall Alva, 36, contacted the Human Rights Campaign, the gay rights group, and asked to be involved in its lobbying effort. Today he'll stand alongside Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Mass.) when he introduces a bill to repeal the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on gay, lesbian and bisexual military personnel.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Why does he always flee whenever I wade into the fray? I never get a chance to slap him around properly like the rest of you seem to.
I think he can handle being called a dickhead by the rest of us, because he can fall back on his whole "I'm infantry, so I'm more hardcore than them anyway" defense...if only in his own head.
When you tell him he's a dickhead, he has to deal with the fact that he is, in fact, a dickhead.
At least, that's what I'm guessing.
Nobody else here is/was infantry, right? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
Well, I'm the only infantry guy who calls him on his bullshit. I don't know if there's any other active infantry posters around here, to be honest. I know there's engineers, artillerists, Jeepguy is a submariner and Quid's a sea man (hee hee!), and there's a few Air Force types knocking about, but no paratroopers or rangers or even leg infantry (that knows what the fuck it's talking about). Aren't you a sapper, by the by?
I swear to God, I about blew a fuse when he went into his "oh im infantry so ill do what I want in war because i know more about how war works and FUCK counter insurgency fucking hippies" spiel.
If it wasn't for the fact I was in the middle of moving at that point, I was planning to find his unit out, call his First Sergeant and be like "Hello there Top, I just want to read what one of your high speeds is posting on the internet about what he thinks. I'll leave it to you to find out who!" and then let the games begin.
Well, I'm the only infantry guy who calls him on his bullshit. I don't know if there's any other active infantry posters around here, to be honest. I know there's engineers, artillerists, Jeepguy is a submariner and Quid's a sea man (hee hee!), and there's a few Air Force types knocking about, but no paratroopers or rangers or even leg infantry (that knows what the fuck it's talking about). Aren't you a sapper, by the by?
Naw...I used to be an armor crewman when I was active...nowadays I'm just a signal geek in the Guard (in an infantry battalion, though). That's what I deployed as, too, so aside from the occasional patrol my time over there went by pretty quietly. I was lucky.
I swear to God, I about blew a fuse when he went into his "oh im infantry so ill do what I want in war because i know more about how war works and FUCK counter insurgency fucking hippies" spiel.
Oh fuck, I forgot why I had the impression he was an idiot already.
I remember at one of our towers, a salty old E-5 fister had an argument with the 10th Mountain guys, who were legs. Afterwards, the fister put on the outside of his tower a drawing of a hand flipping the bird with the line:
"Hey LEGS! If you can read this: <drawing of hand flipping them off> And get back to scanning your own goddamn sector!"
It was hilarious to hear them on the radio then bitch to the fister about the drawing. Usually, Para/rangers/SOF/etc... are decent at keeping their own inline from making stupid comments.
Jesus, the inter service love in here is awesome. I think I'm one of the few AF Officers on the board, I'll be the first to admit I'm a desk jockey but I wear my spings proudly. My perspective tends to be a bit different from a lot of you guys, but I'm glad so many of you agree with me on this topic. I think it's sad I learn more about the other services from this board than my daily job.
Regardless to add to this topic I'm reminded of something that happened while I was in Aerospace Basic Course, the first PME for us Officers. It was combined ops week and we were in groups with Senior NCO's from the NCO academy down the block. As a team building exercise we were asked a few questions and then told to stand in corners based on our answers so we could learn all the different perspectives you can run into in our gloriously diverse service. So along come how do you feel about Gays serving in the military. The choices were it should happen now, indifferent, not ok with it. Of the 25 of us in the room I was the only one in the it should happen now corner, with two guys in the indifferent corner. I don't think I’ve ever been so disappointed in my service.
While explaining why we were in our positions it turned out I was the only one who had ever really met, much less been friends with an openly gay person. There's a serious fear of the unknown out there, and integration can only help it go away. Will we see stupid shits saying "I won't serve with no gays". You're damn right, and I'd promptly tell any Airman who said that to shut up and color. Flexibility is the key to airpower. We hear that all the time in training, well people need to learn to be flexible. Some of the finest people I know are gay, why the hell should they be forced to hide it if they want to serve their country?
Mishra on
"Give a man a fire, he's warm for the night. Set a man on fire he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Terry Pratchett
H3ndu so reminds me of all those little peter priesthood shits at church who didn't have a god damn fucking clue what they were talking about but figured anyone who didn't worship how they worshipped was in some way less righteous.
I'm an ex-LDS Transexual. I was going to serve in the army before I came out, try and get into infantry. But I decided against it, mainly becuase I knew I was suicidal and didn't think I'd be a safe person for a team to rely on.
Anyway, so this my outside view, though my dad was a Submariner and I've known more than my fair share of people in the service, Gays should have the same rights to serve as anyone else. We aren't talking 14 y/o kids that are going to be sneaking into each other's sleeping bags at night here. They're grown adults (for tge most part) who can deal with following basic rules like, gee I don't know, don't fuck while on deployment, don't fuck an officer (since that's such a new ass rule anyway). Personally I think it'll do wonders for acceptance of gays in society, though the first few to be open about it are probably going to go through much the same things the first blacks went through. In the end we get over it and move on.
P.S. I know a metric shit ton of Transexuals who served in the armed forces, it's pretty damn common actually. So it's not like the ranks are fucking bereft of Gays and Transgenders, they just don't come out before or during their service is all.
They should definitely let them in (openly). Why this idea strikes such panic into some people is beyond me.
Cuz then the conservatives couldn't attack gays for destorying our country? It's far harder to personally attack people who are responsible for defending you
I apparently had a gay roommate during my stint on active duty. We didn't find out until after he tried to kill himself and the chain of command poked through his shit a little. He hadn't been in the unit long. People in general had already been treating him like shit because he was a little different and didn't generally socialize and fit in with "the guys." I always tried to treat him decently, and would often invite him over to my half of the room to chill (we had the whole "wall of lockers" thing going on...only two guys in the room). Of course, this all made perfect sense when I found out he was (apparently) gay.
I'd guess he was probably a little unstable to begin with...but basically having to lie about who he was every day as well as putting up with a climate where homosexual-related slurs were used at a rate that makes SE++ look restrained didn't help.
This only served to cement my opinion that DADT was a fundamentally fucked-up policy. This kid could possibly have been a perfectly decent soldier (though again, maybe now) but instead this bullshit ended up pushing him over the edge. And this was long before Iraq or 9/11 (about 2000), so it isn't like it couldn't have been done back then. Just makes me wonder what kind of fucking people we are.
Also, I participated in the Big Brothers, Big Sisters program when I was a kid (single mom, no dad around). Come to find out years later that my Big Brother was apparently very, very gay. I was a kid, I never noticed. He was a great guy, and a good role model. I wonder if the program even knew at the time. *shrug*
Honestly, having a couple guys make out around me (like, say, if I had a gay roommate in the military) would probably make me moderately uncomfortable. Unlike two chicks, which would of course simply be hawt. But I'll be damned if I allow that little bit of discomfort affect how I treat other human beings, and what opportunities I'd allow them to have.
And to be perfectly honest having one of my other roommates (a real winner) make out with his nasty 40-year-old townie girlfriend (he was 18) while I was in the room (and probably have sex while I was in there, for all I know) wasn't exactly comfortable, either. In fact, I'd probably rather have had two dudes going at...because heterosexual or not that shit was just unnatural.
EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it the more I think I'm just not fond of excessive PDA in general. Homo or hetero. Unless it's two chicks...because again, hawt.
I dunno, my experiences so far are quite the opposite - the parts of the Air Force I've seen have been almost disturbingly C/R.
Everything I've heard suggests that the AF is indeed disturbingly evangelical, to the point where it's practically institutionalized in the academy. My experiences with the Army haven't demosntrated any particular emphasis on the Christian Right, and no one has couched opposition to homosexuality in religious terms.
The C/R thought process is more common with the "older folk", much like in the civilian world. Most of the young Airmen could give two shits about gays in the military. They want to serve, let them.
Mcdermott is right; if the higher ups tell us that we will tolerate and function normally with openly gay soldiers, that is precisely what we would do.
I dunno, my experiences so far are quite the opposite - the parts of the Air Force I've seen have been almost disturbingly C/R.
Everything I've heard suggests that the AF is indeed disturbingly evangelical, to the point where it's practically institutionalized in the academy. My experiences with the Army haven't demosntrated any particular emphasis on the Christian Right, and no one has couched opposition to homosexuality in religious terms.
The C/R thought process is more common with the "older folk", much like in the civilian world. Most of the young Airmen could give two shits about gays in the military. They want to serve, let them.
Mcdermott is right; if the higher ups tell us that we will tolerate and function normally with openly gay soldiers, that is precisely what we would do.
Exactly. I'm not in thr military but don't soliders always have to work with one another despite major differences? I mean the armed forces is a pretty divrese bunch racially, socially and religiously. If a solider can't tolerate working with people who they may not agree with then I can't imagine them being a very well-trained solider anyway.
Exactly. I'm not in thr military but don't soliders always have to work with one another despite major differences? I mean the armed forces is a pretty divrese bunch racially, socially and religiously. If a solider can't tolerate working with people who they may not agree with then I can't imagine them being a very well-trained solider anyway.
I knew "former" members of the KKK (which is to say that they couldn't officially claim membership while serving) who served both with and under black soldiers without incident...because they had to. I fail to see how bigots being the majority somehow makes the more worthy of consideration.
I knew "former" members of the KKK (which is to say that they couldn't officially claim membership while serving) who served both with and under black soldiers without incident...because they had to. I fail to see how bigots being the majority somehow makes the more worthy of consideration.
I don't think the majority of the Military (USAF anyway) are bigots; they just seem to be the ones making the most noise. There are, as previously stated, the old guard who don't want to let go of old beliefs; but for the most part I think they are the minority.
Apparently the U.S. is one of the few countries that dosent allow homosexuals in the military.
What I would REALLY like to know is how the other nations have implemented it.
When I was in Iraq, males and females had seperate quarters, showers and latrines. Almost every female soldier said that they would not be comfortable with a male roommate or sharing shower facilities with males. I would like to know what consideration would be made when I say I'm not comfortable sharing a room or a shower with a homosexual male.
Threads survive for more than a year? Damn, I figured they'd get dableeted by then.
In any event, gays serve in the military just not openly. You already have shared a shower with some gay dude. Why are you uncomfortable with that specifically, but have no issue with being naked with a bunch of other random guys so long as they aren't gay?
Threads survive for more than a year? Damn, I figured they'd get dableeted by then.
In any event, gays serve in the military just not openly. You already have shared a shower with some gay dude. Why are you uncomfortable with that specifically, but have no issue with being naked with a bunch of other random guys so long as they aren't gay?
I realize I have probably showered with a guy dude nearby. Whatever, no big deal.
Being forced to live with a gay roommate? Not so cool.
Thats why I really want to know how other nations militaries handle it.
My sophmore year in the dorms I had a gay roomie. The only difference compared to the year before was that he didn't go home on the weekends. Also, he was kind of a douchebag.
I guess I just don't understand the issue. Are you concerned one might be oggling you or something? Because, honestly, going off these posts, you're probably not his type.
Threads survive for more than a year? Damn, I figured they'd get dableeted by then.
In any event, gays serve in the military just not openly. You already have shared a shower with some gay dude. Why are you uncomfortable with that specifically, but have no issue with being naked with a bunch of other random guys so long as they aren't gay?
I realize I have probably showered with a guy dude nearby. Whatever, no big deal.
Being forced to live with a gay roommate? Not so cool.
Thats why I really want to know how other nations militaries handle it.
Would you be uncomfortable sharing a room with an ugly chick?
Threads survive for more than a year? Damn, I figured they'd get dableeted by then.
In any event, gays serve in the military just not openly. You already have shared a shower with some gay dude. Why are you uncomfortable with that specifically, but have no issue with being naked with a bunch of other random guys so long as they aren't gay?
I realize I have probably showered with a guy dude nearby. Whatever, no big deal.
Being forced to live with a gay roommate? Not so cool.
Thats why I really want to know how other nations militaries handle it.
o_O
If you don't have a problem getting naked with gay dudes, why would you have a problem having one for a roommate?
I guess I just don't understand the issue. Are you concerned one might be oggling you or something? Because, honestly, going off these posts, you're probably not his type.
It makes me uncomfortable. Is that not good reason enough?
Reverse the scenario. Lets say there is a female soldier, and she is told she has to have a male roommate (because of overcrowded housing or something), and she says she is uncomfortable with it. Would that not be a enough of a justified reason?
I'd be willing to bet a year's pay, that if the female in that scenario was forced into sharing her room with a male, then her story would be on the front page of damn near every newspaper in the world with her being portrayed as the victim.
So why am I being prodded (no pun intented) to provide a rational reason for being uncomfortable?
Because female sexual molestation in the army is as high as 33% by some accounts and I'm not particularly aware of virile homosexuals putting extra special slippery gel on the soap for when they get in the shower next to you...?
Tarranon on
You could be anywhere
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited March 2008
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
And why should anyone give a shit about how you feel?
If you live your life expecting to have comfort handed to you on a silver platter, you're going to be severely disappointed all throughout. A part of living is just dealing with shit.
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
And why should anyone give a shit about how you feel?
If you live your life expecting to have comfort handed to you on a silver platter, you're going to be severely disappointed all throughout. A part of living is just dealing with shit.
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
EDIT:
By the way, I support the idea of allowing gays in the military. I think anyone who wants to serve thier country should be allowed to do so.
MY ONLY CONCERN is that the government will not take my interests into consideration when they implement this policy.
And if its anything like the attitudes of the posters in this thread thus far, then my concerns are valid.
Apperantly being a heterosexual male means I must waive my rights.
Victor15b on
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
The hell? It's discrimination against you to prevent you from discriminating against others? What does their sexual orientation have to do with anything, anyway? Why does that make you uncomfortable?
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
"Because they're gay." is not a reason either. That's like saying "I don't like you because you're you"....
Your uncomfortableness with a person's sexual orientation is NOT a valid reason for not letting someone serve their country. Honestly, you need to back up your statements instead of just being an idiot. Also, you're making some bullshit assumption that this homosexual stranger is going to rape you up the ass, because you keep referring to a woman being forced to room with a man (where implied sexual actions would occur, or have a higher chance of doing so)... which is completely false. A gay man can keep it in his pants the same as a straight man, and don't even try to argue that with me.
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
And why should anyone give a shit about how you feel?
If you live your life expecting to have comfort handed to you on a silver platter, you're going to be severely disappointed all throughout. A part of living is just dealing with shit.
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
Not it isn't, none moreso than integrated baracks are discrimination against white people. And Tarranon already dispatched your strawman. You probably aren't going to get raped by your bunk buddy, and if you were I'd be more concerned about people from bumfuck Deliverance type areas than random gay dude who finally was freed to not have to worry about being gay/talking about his boyfriend in front of people.
Apperantly being a heterosexual male means I must waive my rights.
You have a right to not sleep by gay people? You have a right to choose your living conditions in the armed forces? You have a right to tell your commanding officer to go fuck himself because you're uncomfortable about this new guy for inexpressable reasons?
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
EDIT:
By the way, I support the idea of allowing gays in the military. I think anyone who wants to serve thier country should be allowed to do so.
MY ONLY CONCERN is that the government will not take my interests into consideration when they implement this policy.
And if its anything like the attitudes of the posters in this thread thus far, then my concerns are valid.
Apperantly being a heterosexual male means I must waive my rights.
The moment you show me some numbers regarding homosexuals harassing heterosexuals in the military at the same rate males harass females, I will agree with you entirely.
Personally, I'm not comfortable sharing a room with anyone. Should the military have to give me a single?
What's the difference? If you're going to single out gays an unsuitable roommates, you can't beg off with a simple "I'm uncomfortable." WHY are you uncomfortable with one guy and not the other when the only difference is their sexual orientation?
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
And why should anyone give a shit about how you feel?
If you live your life expecting to have comfort handed to you on a silver platter, you're going to be severely disappointed all throughout. A part of living is just dealing with shit.
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
EDIT:
By the way, I support the idea of allowing gays in the military. I think anyone who wants to serve thier country should be allowed to do so.
MY ONLY CONCERN is that the government will not take my interests into consideration when they implement this policy.
And if its anything like the attitudes of the posters in this thread thus far, then my concerns are valid.
Apperantly being a heterosexual male means I must waive my rights.
I like how you just ignored my post as to why living with a female soldier isn't analogous to living with a homersexual. But then again, reality does have a very evident liberal bias.
Posts
Thats a hell of a defense strategy, but with at least one of the victims admitting that they are gay; not so compelling.
Linked from original article
Maaaaaaaan, I can't even make a gay joke here, can I? I was conditioned to do that by the AF in AF Sneaker Camp, by the by. Beforehand, I was a socially concsious liberal.
And yes, AF gets the GWOT ribbon, too. I tend not to wear my ribbons on my blues, though, unless it's full dress. I haven't done that much cool stuff to warrent showing off. But as much as I think the GWOT ribbon is bullshit, that is primarily what I do every damn day. I may be over here, but I'm about 6 seconds away from the action, given the time delay.
And to make this post OT, I don't care if the guy next to me looking at feed is Harvey Firestien. Just let the other kids know where they have to blow shit up.
Topic related: There was a case of a chaplain in the R&R program in Qatar taking Marines out to bars "friendly like" and drugging them before cornholing them back at base. I really wish I could find a link for that.
http://www.sovo.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=11670
They found the guy guilty of rape.
I'm not sure how I feel about this story... On one hand, it's the word of 5 people against his, so it's very possible he did it. But I can also totally see guys going to this length to hide their sexuality from the military. Especially guys that aren't sure of how they feel.
I have a feeling this occurred in a sort of grey area. They were probably really drunk and were willing at the time, but regretted it later and wanted to cover it up. Also, somehow I doubt someone would bother to drug that many guys when honestly, it's not that hard to hook up in the gay community. (a bit of a stereotype but true)
I would like to see more of the evidence presented but I doubt the military will release that. Hell, there only seems to be one AP reporter working the story.
If he didn't do it, this isn't the last we'll hear of it I think. Eventually one of the guys will crack and spill the beans. If he did do it, well, he'll get what he deserves I suppose.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Why does he always flee whenever I wade into the fray? I never get a chance to slap him around properly like the rest of you seem to.
I think he can handle being called a dickhead by the rest of us, because he can fall back on his whole "I'm infantry, so I'm more hardcore than them anyway" defense...if only in his own head.
When you tell him he's a dickhead, he has to deal with the fact that he is, in fact, a dickhead.
At least, that's what I'm guessing.
Nobody else here is/was infantry, right? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
This one far more upbeat.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/28/14754/6087
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Well, I'm the only infantry guy who calls him on his bullshit. I don't know if there's any other active infantry posters around here, to be honest. I know there's engineers, artillerists, Jeepguy is a submariner and Quid's a sea man (hee hee!), and there's a few Air Force types knocking about, but no paratroopers or rangers or even leg infantry (that knows what the fuck it's talking about). Aren't you a sapper, by the by?
I swear to God, I about blew a fuse when he went into his "oh im infantry so ill do what I want in war because i know more about how war works and FUCK counter insurgency fucking hippies" spiel.
If it wasn't for the fact I was in the middle of moving at that point, I was planning to find his unit out, call his First Sergeant and be like "Hello there Top, I just want to read what one of your high speeds is posting on the internet about what he thinks. I'll leave it to you to find out who!" and then let the games begin.
Naw...I used to be an armor crewman when I was active...nowadays I'm just a signal geek in the Guard (in an infantry battalion, though). That's what I deployed as, too, so aside from the occasional patrol my time over there went by pretty quietly. I was lucky.
Oh fuck, I forgot why I had the impression he was an idiot already.
"Hey LEGS! If you can read this: <drawing of hand flipping them off> And get back to scanning your own goddamn sector!"
It was hilarious to hear them on the radio then bitch to the fister about the drawing. Usually, Para/rangers/SOF/etc... are decent at keeping their own inline from making stupid comments.
Regardless to add to this topic I'm reminded of something that happened while I was in Aerospace Basic Course, the first PME for us Officers. It was combined ops week and we were in groups with Senior NCO's from the NCO academy down the block. As a team building exercise we were asked a few questions and then told to stand in corners based on our answers so we could learn all the different perspectives you can run into in our gloriously diverse service. So along come how do you feel about Gays serving in the military. The choices were it should happen now, indifferent, not ok with it. Of the 25 of us in the room I was the only one in the it should happen now corner, with two guys in the indifferent corner. I don't think I’ve ever been so disappointed in my service.
While explaining why we were in our positions it turned out I was the only one who had ever really met, much less been friends with an openly gay person. There's a serious fear of the unknown out there, and integration can only help it go away. Will we see stupid shits saying "I won't serve with no gays". You're damn right, and I'd promptly tell any Airman who said that to shut up and color. Flexibility is the key to airpower. We hear that all the time in training, well people need to learn to be flexible. Some of the finest people I know are gay, why the hell should they be forced to hide it if they want to serve their country?
-Terry Pratchett
I'm an ex-LDS Transexual. I was going to serve in the army before I came out, try and get into infantry. But I decided against it, mainly becuase I knew I was suicidal and didn't think I'd be a safe person for a team to rely on.
Anyway, so this my outside view, though my dad was a Submariner and I've known more than my fair share of people in the service, Gays should have the same rights to serve as anyone else. We aren't talking 14 y/o kids that are going to be sneaking into each other's sleeping bags at night here. They're grown adults (for tge most part) who can deal with following basic rules like, gee I don't know, don't fuck while on deployment, don't fuck an officer (since that's such a new ass rule anyway). Personally I think it'll do wonders for acceptance of gays in society, though the first few to be open about it are probably going to go through much the same things the first blacks went through. In the end we get over it and move on.
P.S. I know a metric shit ton of Transexuals who served in the armed forces, it's pretty damn common actually. So it's not like the ranks are fucking bereft of Gays and Transgenders, they just don't come out before or during their service is all.
Cuz then the conservatives couldn't attack gays for destorying our country? It's far harder to personally attack people who are responsible for defending you
I'd guess he was probably a little unstable to begin with...but basically having to lie about who he was every day as well as putting up with a climate where homosexual-related slurs were used at a rate that makes SE++ look restrained didn't help.
This only served to cement my opinion that DADT was a fundamentally fucked-up policy. This kid could possibly have been a perfectly decent soldier (though again, maybe now) but instead this bullshit ended up pushing him over the edge. And this was long before Iraq or 9/11 (about 2000), so it isn't like it couldn't have been done back then. Just makes me wonder what kind of fucking people we are.
Also, I participated in the Big Brothers, Big Sisters program when I was a kid (single mom, no dad around). Come to find out years later that my Big Brother was apparently very, very gay. I was a kid, I never noticed. He was a great guy, and a good role model. I wonder if the program even knew at the time. *shrug*
Honestly, having a couple guys make out around me (like, say, if I had a gay roommate in the military) would probably make me moderately uncomfortable. Unlike two chicks, which would of course simply be hawt. But I'll be damned if I allow that little bit of discomfort affect how I treat other human beings, and what opportunities I'd allow them to have.
And to be perfectly honest having one of my other roommates (a real winner) make out with his nasty 40-year-old townie girlfriend (he was 18) while I was in the room (and probably have sex while I was in there, for all I know) wasn't exactly comfortable, either. In fact, I'd probably rather have had two dudes going at...because heterosexual or not that shit was just unnatural.
EDIT: Actually, the more I think about it the more I think I'm just not fond of excessive PDA in general. Homo or hetero. Unless it's two chicks...because again, hawt.
Because they are terrified that they will teach the other gays to use guns? Quite a few of us have repressed anger, could be dangerous.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I, for one, support our new angry homosexual overlords.
The C/R thought process is more common with the "older folk", much like in the civilian world. Most of the young Airmen could give two shits about gays in the military. They want to serve, let them.
Mcdermott is right; if the higher ups tell us that we will tolerate and function normally with openly gay soldiers, that is precisely what we would do.
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Exactly. I'm not in thr military but don't soliders always have to work with one another despite major differences? I mean the armed forces is a pretty divrese bunch racially, socially and religiously. If a solider can't tolerate working with people who they may not agree with then I can't imagine them being a very well-trained solider anyway.
I knew "former" members of the KKK (which is to say that they couldn't officially claim membership while serving) who served both with and under black soldiers without incident...because they had to. I fail to see how bigots being the majority somehow makes the more worthy of consideration.
I don't think the majority of the Military (USAF anyway) are bigots; they just seem to be the ones making the most noise. There are, as previously stated, the old guard who don't want to let go of old beliefs; but for the most part I think they are the minority.
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Live: Kayle Solo
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The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Apparently the U.S. is one of the few countries that dosent allow homosexuals in the military.
What I would REALLY like to know is how the other nations have implemented it.
When I was in Iraq, males and females had seperate quarters, showers and latrines. Almost every female soldier said that they would not be comfortable with a male roommate or sharing shower facilities with males. I would like to know what consideration would be made when I say I'm not comfortable sharing a room or a shower with a homosexual male.
Or would it just be 100% co-ed?
In any event, gays serve in the military just not openly. You already have shared a shower with some gay dude. Why are you uncomfortable with that specifically, but have no issue with being naked with a bunch of other random guys so long as they aren't gay?
I realize I have probably showered with a guy dude nearby. Whatever, no big deal.
Being forced to live with a gay roommate? Not so cool.
Thats why I really want to know how other nations militaries handle it.
I guess I just don't understand the issue. Are you concerned one might be oggling you or something? Because, honestly, going off these posts, you're probably not his type.
Would you be uncomfortable sharing a room with an ugly chick?
If you don't have a problem getting naked with gay dudes, why would you have a problem having one for a roommate?
It makes me uncomfortable. Is that not good reason enough?
Reverse the scenario. Lets say there is a female soldier, and she is told she has to have a male roommate (because of overcrowded housing or something), and she says she is uncomfortable with it. Would that not be a enough of a justified reason?
I'd be willing to bet a year's pay, that if the female in that scenario was forced into sharing her room with a male, then her story would be on the front page of damn near every newspaper in the world with her being portrayed as the victim.
So why am I being prodded (no pun intented) to provide a rational reason for being uncomfortable?
.......yeah, probably......
On the black screen
Because of thier sexual orientation.
Do I have gay friends? Yes.
Do I hang out with my gay friends? Yes.
Do I trust my gay friends? Yes.
Do I even get drunk with my gay friends and even get trashed with my gay friends and crash on my gay friends couch because Im too wasted to drive home? Yes
Am I comforatble sharing a bedroom the size of a storage closet with a homosexual stranger for one year in a third world country? Hell no.
And why should anyone give a shit about how you feel?
If you live your life expecting to have comfort handed to you on a silver platter, you're going to be severely disappointed all throughout. A part of living is just dealing with shit.
Ok, this is discrimination against me as heterosexual male and I will not stand for it.
Would you tell a female soldier she has to live with a male soldier?
Would you tell her that life isnt about comfort and to just deal with it?
WOULD YOU?
EDIT:
By the way, I support the idea of allowing gays in the military. I think anyone who wants to serve thier country should be allowed to do so.
MY ONLY CONCERN is that the government will not take my interests into consideration when they implement this policy.
And if its anything like the attitudes of the posters in this thread thus far, then my concerns are valid.
Apperantly being a heterosexual male means I must waive my rights.
The hell? It's discrimination against you to prevent you from discriminating against others? What does their sexual orientation have to do with anything, anyway? Why does that make you uncomfortable?
"Because they're gay." is not a reason either. That's like saying "I don't like you because you're you"....
Your uncomfortableness with a person's sexual orientation is NOT a valid reason for not letting someone serve their country. Honestly, you need to back up your statements instead of just being an idiot. Also, you're making some bullshit assumption that this homosexual stranger is going to rape you up the ass, because you keep referring to a woman being forced to room with a man (where implied sexual actions would occur, or have a higher chance of doing so)... which is completely false. A gay man can keep it in his pants the same as a straight man, and don't even try to argue that with me.
Not it isn't, none moreso than integrated baracks are discrimination against white people. And Tarranon already dispatched your strawman. You probably aren't going to get raped by your bunk buddy, and if you were I'd be more concerned about people from bumfuck Deliverance type areas than random gay dude who finally was freed to not have to worry about being gay/talking about his boyfriend in front of people.
You have a right to not sleep by gay people? You have a right to choose your living conditions in the armed forces? You have a right to tell your commanding officer to go fuck himself because you're uncomfortable about this new guy for inexpressable reasons?
I must have missed that day in my civics classes.
Personally, I'm not comfortable sharing a room with anyone. Should the military have to give me a single?
I like how you just ignored my post as to why living with a female soldier isn't analogous to living with a homersexual. But then again, reality does have a very evident liberal bias.
On the black screen