I like that quote. I think I'm struggling with that whole "throw off the bullshit and do what you want" thing right now.
Yeah. I recommend Tuckers advice, the guy is a clear thinker, and that right there is his main message. He's probably one of the biggest influences on my life, which might seem really stupid if you've just read some of his stories. But the guy gives great advice.
“So other people hurt me? That’s their problem. Their character and actions are not mine. What is done to me is ordained by nature and what I do by my own.â€
“Today I escaped from anxiety. Or no, I discarded it, because it was within me, in my own perceptions—not outside.â€
“When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself: The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil. But I have seen the beauty of good, and the ugliness of evil and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own–not of the same blood or birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine. And so none of them can hurt me.â€
“Show me a man who isn’t a slave; one who is a slave to sex, another to money, another to ambition; all are slaves to hope or fear. I could show you a man who has been a Consul who is a slave to his ‘little old woman’, a millionaire who is the slave of a little girl in domestic service. And there is no state of slavery more disgraceful than one which is self-imposed.â€
“Count your years and you’ll be ashamed to be wanting and working for exactly the same things as you wanted when you were a boy. Of this make sure against your dying day - that your faults die before you do.â€
Wasn't Seneca the one who said "let us merely separate ourselves from the crowd, and we shall be made whole"?
postinonthenets on
Solitude sometimes is best society, and short retirement urges sweet return
Seneca was also a total hedonist who lived large on imperial funds.
Which doesn't make him wrong, but it makes you wonder.
Well, he wasn't a hedonist because he was a stoic . . but he was rich, which is totally fine for a stoic. Their goal was tranquility, and the elimination of negative emotions along with an inner joy - and not letting the material things rule your life. But you could still be loaded.
Tucker Max had terrible parents and teachers. I was encourage on all sides to do what I was interested in doing from parents and teachers alike. Not once from primary school through to university did anyone ever advise me to 'get a safe job', it was always about finding what I was interested in at the time and pursuing that. That's probably why I'm in the precarious position I'm in today; what interests me most varies from week to week so I never stick to one thing long enough to make a success of it.
If your parents never urged you to get a 9 to 5 job that you didnt have fantastic interest in then you're unusual, thats pretty much the norm. Generally speaking a parent is interested in you supporting yourself and not ending up homeless, so theyre not going to tell you to say fuck it and carve a new path in life - like Tucker did. The guy graduated for U of Chicago, then Duke law - fucked up his law career, then got kicked out of the family business - he ended up basically destitute for a couple years just writing and trying to get his shit out there. Now he has a book thats been on the NYT bestseller for two years, and is going to have a wide release film coming out this fall that he produced and wrote, and got independently financed.
So it worked out for him, but it easily could have gone the other way, and parents will tend to steer their kids to the safer path, to avoid the likely failing.
So what you're saying is...?
Whether or not you have parents that encourage pursuing a 9 to 5 or parents who encourage chasing your dreams ultimately has little bearing on your success and/or happiness and Tucker is just spewing meaningless shit?
My point was he didnt have terrible parents and teachers. and no, he doesnt spew meaningless shit. Most people have no coherent philosophy of life - theyre enlightened hedonists at best, but probably unenlightened hedonists, and that's going to be the case unless you have some influential figures in your life that show you what life is really about.
My name is Tucker Max, and I am an asshole.
I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.
But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way. I share my adventures with the world.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.
But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way. I share my adventures with the world.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
Thats from the back of his book and the intro to his site. So, promotional material.
Like literally one aspect out of him, the man is not two dimensional. I dont really want to make this about the guy, so Ill stop now.
Although one tangent - enlightened hedonism is a perfectly acceptable way of living ones life.
And yeah if your dorm shields you from consequences then once again high school isn't the thing you miss, the thing you miss is having someone follow you around and wipe your ass for you. Real freedom requires you to wipe your own ass.
This isn't really a contest. Just my experience.
And yeah, I'm conflating all of undergrad with dorm-life. So, residential undergrad follows the same path. Of course, we all have different experiences, and I'm a bit hesitant to agree with any blanket statement about the worth of the time-period that I feel has been my "best and happiest" so far.
I've made no claims about worth, either.
Why can't you just say, "Okay, we had different experiences" and just move on. Really, I think this insane requirement for broad blanket-statements to become law is what's pissing people off. Let's just be nice to each other instead of digging defensive-position holes that we can't seem to climb out of.
Really, that's all I'm looking for. Just say, "Our experiences differed" and move on.
Because that has nothing to do with anything I said, there is no such requirement, and I haven't been particularly mean to anyone who hasn't tried to pass personal attacks off as arguments. Our experiences differing or not differing is irrelevant. I maintain that if the part of your life that is singularly The Best part is the part that you had the least control over, I question the specific manner in which you have exercised that control.
I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.
But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way. I share my adventures with the world.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
Thats from the back of his book and the intro to his site. So, promotional material.
Like literally one aspect out of him, the man is not two dimensional. I dont really want to make this about the guy, so Ill stop now.
Although one tangent - enlightened hedonism is a perfectly acceptable way of living ones life.
I'd be interested to see a definition of this "englightened hedonism". Do you mean Epicureanism?
SlayerVin on
BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS!
0
Options
MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
Well, he wasn't a hedonist because he was a stoic . . but he was rich, which is totally fine for a stoic. Their goal was tranquility, and the elimination of negative emotions along with an inner joy - and not letting the material things rule your life. But you could still be loaded.
Seneca is not without his detractors. In his own time, he was widely considered to be a hypocrite or, at least, less than "stoic" in his lifestyle. His tendency to engage in illicit affairs with married women and close ties to Nero's excess test the limits of his teachings on restraint and self-discipline. While banished to Corsica, he wrote pleas for restoration rather incompatible with his advocacy of a simple life and the acceptance of fate. In his Pumpkinification (54) he ridiculed several behaviors and policies of Claudius that every Stoic should have applauded; a reading of the text shows it was also an attempt to gain Nero's favor by flattery
Just saying--although, to be fair, a lot of our sketchy knowledge of his life apparently comes from one of his rivals.
I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.
But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way. I share my adventures with the world.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
Thats from the back of his book and the intro to his site. So, promotional material.
Like literally one aspect out of him, the man is not two dimensional. I dont really want to make this about the guy, so Ill stop now.
Although one tangent - enlightened hedonism is a perfectly acceptable way of living ones life.
I'd be interested to see a definition of this "englightened hedonism". Do you mean Epicureanism?
It's basically planned out hedonism - maximizing welfare and pleasure through thought and identifying those things which give the most welfare and pleasure and the least amount of downsides (so like, heroin is out) and then doing those things.
Unenlightened hedonism is basically going through life aimless, doing whatever makes you feel better in the moment. Which is what modern American life is pretty much about.
I get excessively drunk at inappropriate times, disregard social norms, indulge every whim, ignore the consequences of my actions, mock idiots and posers, sleep with more women than is safe or reasonable, and just generally act like a raging dickhead.
But, I do contribute to humanity in one very important way. I share my adventures with the world.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
Thats from the back of his book and the intro to his site. So, promotional material.
Like literally one aspect out of him, the man is not two dimensional. I dont really want to make this about the guy, so Ill stop now.
Although one tangent - enlightened hedonism is a perfectly acceptable way of living ones life.
I'd be interested to see a definition of this "englightened hedonism". Do you mean Epicureanism?
It's basically planned out hedonism - maximizing welfare and pleasure through thought and identifying those things which give the most welfare and pleasure and the least amount of downsides (so like, heroin is out) and then doing those things.
Unenlightened hedonism is basically going through life aimless, doing whatever makes you feel better in the moment. Which is what modern American life is pretty much about.
I can buy that. Though I don't see how that's much different than living a reasonable life. I guess it just gives a name to it...
I also agree with your sentiment about modern American life and try to live my life as far from that ideal as possible. I think that changes with age in most people, during the period called "grown-up life", but I think a lot of people in my generation are having a bit of trouble outgrowing aimless pursuit of shallow pleasure. Excess is in. It's easy to make a blanket statement like that though, I can't really tell if it's exactly the truth about American life or if it's just the picture that is most visible. The current economic situation and the "drug war" in Mexico would suggest that it is actually true, however. Who knows what to believe anymore?
There are things which are within our power, and there are things which are beyond our power. Within our power are opinion, aim, desire, aversion, and, in one word, whatever affairs are our own. Beyond our power are body, property, reputation, office, and, in one word, whatever are not properly our own affairs.
Now, the things within our power are by nature free, unrestricted, unhindered; but those beyond our power are weak, dependent, restricted, alien. Remember, then, that if you attribute freedom to things by nature dependent, and take what belongs to others for you own, you will be hindered, you will lament, you will be disturbed, you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you take for your own only that which is your own, and view what belongs to others just as it really is, then no one will ever compel you, no one will restrict you, you will find fault with no one, you will accuse no one, you will do nothing against your will; no one will hurt you, you will not have an enemy, nor will you suffer any harm.
Oh now theres a life lesson: childhood heroes are more often than not anything but.
Yah, pretty much. Although I have found there is a lot of merit to Neitzsche's statement (paraphrased), about his mother and sister, on what he thought of them now that he was older.
'One of the greater acts of love is to not examine a thing too closely.' Which I have found to be excellent advice, but challanging to put into practice.
Sarcastro on
0
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
Isn't Tucker Max the dude whose claim to fame is being a gigantic douche/tool?
Why would I want to take his advice?
his claim to fame is writing very funny stories which may or may not be true.
if they are true, he's a bit of an asshole but I never read one where he really hurt anybody (haven't seen the site in at least 5 years though, since way before the book) and as I said, they're funny.
edit - funny in the drunk frat boy asshole sense. so maybe not funny to a lot of people.
Fuck, I've written down this list of lessons I have learned in my life so far about 4 times now (erased and rewritten), and now I am just going to write whatever comes out this time and see what sticks.
Don't belch loudly in front of people you don't really know, especially if they are girls.
Dress sharply when out in public. Retire ratty clothes, regardless of any sentimental value. If you don't feel comfortable in it and it doesn't make you look good, Do Not Wear It.
Maintain good personal hygene, hair and nails trimmed.
BRUSH AND FLOSS YOUR FUCKING TEETH EVERY DAY. Use mouthwash too.
CONFIDENCE. As someone said already, fake it until you make it if you have to.
Exersize. Eat small meals, eat frequently.
Everything is acceptable in moderation, tho sometimes you have to moderate the moderation and go to the excess.
Girls are way more interesting when you aren't afraid of interacting with them.
It is ok to draw girls. (For decades I had trouble allowing myself to be caught drawing girls, I have no idea where this self censorship came from.)
My own worst enemy is Me.
There is such a thing as having too much porn.
LAN parties and orgies are sometimes logistical nightmares.
Even if you are pennyless and begging for change, don't buy cheap alcohol. Save for the good stuff.
Patience is a virtue, but so is taking initiative when you want it.
Don't wait for someone else to do it for you.
Most people take things way to seriously, myself included.
Know when to shut up.
Know when to speak up.
Smile.
Do not dwell on what others may or may not think of you.
My life lessons (at least some of them) - All of these are applied to a reasonable person without a disability and moderate monetary means.
1. There are no shortcuts, there are no immaterial amounts, things don't just magically get done. If you want to do something research the options, formulate the plan and then put the work in and grind it out.
2. You are as social as you want to be. There is nothing stopping you from going out and enjoying yourself with a group besides your own hang ups.
3. You can have as much fun as you want too. Want to go canoeing on Saturday mornings, nothing is stopping you. Dont let concerns from school or work get in the way of life.
4. When in a relationship its awesome to be devoted to your girlfriend, to put her first, but don't lose your sense of identity.
5. Never be with someone who makes you a worse person for being with them. I know this seems obvious but only a month out of a 2 year relationship and I am just now returning to who I used to be and realizing how much better I can be.
6. Stolen from an awesome thread, but its what I live according to now material things fade, even friendships and relationships fade, the only thing you ALWAYS have is who you are and the skills you have learned and personality you have obtained through your experiences and the honor you have from being a good person and contributing to society in a positive manner.
7. This one I learned the hard way, when you have major success, cool, take a night or even a week off and celebrate, what you shouldn't do is get a big head and think you have life figured out at 22. (long story short got into a really good law school and thought I had the world figured out until 1L grades came back- not forgetting that lesson any time soon) In short, humility is a GREAT trait to have.
8. Work out every few days at least. My personal theory is that having evolved moving around a lot we need physical activity to keep balanced.
9. Thankfully this is one I realized very early on - Appreciate everything good in your life. Seriously. Have an awesome friend, take a bit of time out and thank your lucky stars you two are buds. Like driving around and looking at the Hill Country, be conscious of how awesome that moment is. Like being in the dark right before you climb into bed, that moment when there are no responsibilities and all you have to do is sleep - take notice of it and appreciate it. etc.
10. If possible try to really love whatever you do. I had no idea I would like being a lawyer but i love it and it makes doing work fun and something I am passionate about.
11. Watch who you take advice from (lol meta).
12. Dont try to be a NICE GUY TM, you wind up feeling like a douche and real love , even love that doesn't last forever, doesn't work like that.
13. There is great value in meditation or prayer or simply quiet reflection. Take some time every day to clear your mind.
14. That little voice in your head that tells you something doesn't feel right, LISTEN TO IT.
15. You can't get over in life, there is no crime you can commit that you can't eventually get caught. Instead just do what is right and you wont have to deal with the stress of keeping a lie straight or hoping you dont get caught.
16. Like whatever you like without apologies. If your friends respect you , it wont really matter. For instance I love the song, "Computer Love" by Zapp and have it on every playlist.
17. Shepard Book was right, the journey is the more important part, dont get to focused on milestones.
18. Early is on time, on time is late and late is unacceptable ( I know cliche)
19. Whatever you think you have figured out now, is not nearly what you will know a few years from now.
20. A quote from somewhere I dont remember - Your indignation even if justified never seems as righteous to others as it seems to you.
21. Patience is required for success.
22. Always be mindful of pride, especially when in a dispute.
23. If there is something you really want to do that is on your mind to the point where you cant get your work done, take some time out and do it.
24. DON'T fashion yourself to be acceptable in another's eyes, just become the person you want to be for yourself.
25. Take the people you look up to the most and try to appropriate the best traits they have.
This one seems obvious, but no one's perfect. No one's a perfect match for you. People don't enjoy being put on pedestals. I learned this the hard way with my first girlfriend, where I thought she was perfect and as such, tried to be the perfect person for her. As you can guess, it didn't work out. She also thoroughly showed me the truth of how stupid putting people on pedestals is, because when she fell off, she fell off hard. I know now I had too high of expectations of her, ridiculous ones, and it wasn't fair.
Another one, and this has probably be mentioned, but friends, even ones that you love and love you, can hurt you in tremendous ways. This was basically learned by a close friend and their drug problems.
Also, your friends will come and go, the person you were friends with the other day may not be your friend today. All you can do is enjoy your time with them, no matter how brief.
Finally, my favorite C.S. Lewis quote (knowing my luck, it's already been posted as well, but I gave up reading the whole thread around page five):
"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
Posts
Wasn't Seneca the one who said "let us merely separate ourselves from the crowd, and we shall be made whole"?
Twitter
Which doesn't make him wrong, but it makes you wonder.
Oh now theres a life lesson: childhood heroes are more often than not anything but.
Twitter
Well, he wasn't a hedonist because he was a stoic . . but he was rich, which is totally fine for a stoic. Their goal was tranquility, and the elimination of negative emotions along with an inner joy - and not letting the material things rule your life. But you could still be loaded.
Doesnt apply here. The guy got sentenced to death and was concerned only for his wife and kids.
Yeah my post was only tangentially connected to Seneca.
Twitter
Oh I know, its a valid point in general.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of hedonism?
Thats from the back of his book and the intro to his site. So, promotional material.
Like literally one aspect out of him, the man is not two dimensional. I dont really want to make this about the guy, so Ill stop now.
Although one tangent - enlightened hedonism is a perfectly acceptable way of living ones life.
Twitter
Because that has nothing to do with anything I said, there is no such requirement, and I haven't been particularly mean to anyone who hasn't tried to pass personal attacks off as arguments. Our experiences differing or not differing is irrelevant. I maintain that if the part of your life that is singularly The Best part is the part that you had the least control over, I question the specific manner in which you have exercised that control.
I'd be interested to see a definition of this "englightened hedonism". Do you mean Epicureanism?
Just saying--although, to be fair, a lot of our sketchy knowledge of his life apparently comes from one of his rivals.
It's basically planned out hedonism - maximizing welfare and pleasure through thought and identifying those things which give the most welfare and pleasure and the least amount of downsides (so like, heroin is out) and then doing those things.
Unenlightened hedonism is basically going through life aimless, doing whatever makes you feel better in the moment. Which is what modern American life is pretty much about.
I can buy that. Though I don't see how that's much different than living a reasonable life. I guess it just gives a name to it...
I also agree with your sentiment about modern American life and try to live my life as far from that ideal as possible. I think that changes with age in most people, during the period called "grown-up life", but I think a lot of people in my generation are having a bit of trouble outgrowing aimless pursuit of shallow pleasure. Excess is in. It's easy to make a blanket statement like that though, I can't really tell if it's exactly the truth about American life or if it's just the picture that is most visible. The current economic situation and the "drug war" in Mexico would suggest that it is actually true, however. Who knows what to believe anymore?
Why would I want to take his advice?
With the exception of D&D threads.
Let me know how it is - I'm on a kick with that kind of book recently.
Have you read Epictetus' Enchiridion?
http://www.geocities.com/khs10uk/enchiridion.htm
Yah, pretty much. Although I have found there is a lot of merit to Neitzsche's statement (paraphrased), about his mother and sister, on what he thought of them now that he was older.
'One of the greater acts of love is to not examine a thing too closely.' Which I have found to be excellent advice, but challanging to put into practice.
his claim to fame is writing very funny stories which may or may not be true.
if they are true, he's a bit of an asshole but I never read one where he really hurt anybody (haven't seen the site in at least 5 years though, since way before the book) and as I said, they're funny.
edit - funny in the drunk frat boy asshole sense. so maybe not funny to a lot of people.
1. There are no shortcuts, there are no immaterial amounts, things don't just magically get done. If you want to do something research the options, formulate the plan and then put the work in and grind it out.
2. You are as social as you want to be. There is nothing stopping you from going out and enjoying yourself with a group besides your own hang ups.
3. You can have as much fun as you want too. Want to go canoeing on Saturday mornings, nothing is stopping you. Dont let concerns from school or work get in the way of life.
4. When in a relationship its awesome to be devoted to your girlfriend, to put her first, but don't lose your sense of identity.
5. Never be with someone who makes you a worse person for being with them. I know this seems obvious but only a month out of a 2 year relationship and I am just now returning to who I used to be and realizing how much better I can be.
6. Stolen from an awesome thread, but its what I live according to now material things fade, even friendships and relationships fade, the only thing you ALWAYS have is who you are and the skills you have learned and personality you have obtained through your experiences and the honor you have from being a good person and contributing to society in a positive manner.
7. This one I learned the hard way, when you have major success, cool, take a night or even a week off and celebrate, what you shouldn't do is get a big head and think you have life figured out at 22. (long story short got into a really good law school and thought I had the world figured out until 1L grades came back- not forgetting that lesson any time soon) In short, humility is a GREAT trait to have.
8. Work out every few days at least. My personal theory is that having evolved moving around a lot we need physical activity to keep balanced.
9. Thankfully this is one I realized very early on - Appreciate everything good in your life. Seriously. Have an awesome friend, take a bit of time out and thank your lucky stars you two are buds. Like driving around and looking at the Hill Country, be conscious of how awesome that moment is. Like being in the dark right before you climb into bed, that moment when there are no responsibilities and all you have to do is sleep - take notice of it and appreciate it. etc.
10. If possible try to really love whatever you do. I had no idea I would like being a lawyer but i love it and it makes doing work fun and something I am passionate about.
11. Watch who you take advice from (lol meta).
12. Dont try to be a NICE GUY TM, you wind up feeling like a douche and real love , even love that doesn't last forever, doesn't work like that.
13. There is great value in meditation or prayer or simply quiet reflection. Take some time every day to clear your mind.
14. That little voice in your head that tells you something doesn't feel right, LISTEN TO IT.
15. You can't get over in life, there is no crime you can commit that you can't eventually get caught. Instead just do what is right and you wont have to deal with the stress of keeping a lie straight or hoping you dont get caught.
16. Like whatever you like without apologies. If your friends respect you , it wont really matter. For instance I love the song, "Computer Love" by Zapp and have it on every playlist.
17. Shepard Book was right, the journey is the more important part, dont get to focused on milestones.
18. Early is on time, on time is late and late is unacceptable ( I know cliche)
19. Whatever you think you have figured out now, is not nearly what you will know a few years from now.
20. A quote from somewhere I dont remember - Your indignation even if justified never seems as righteous to others as it seems to you.
21. Patience is required for success.
22. Always be mindful of pride, especially when in a dispute.
23. If there is something you really want to do that is on your mind to the point where you cant get your work done, take some time out and do it.
24. DON'T fashion yourself to be acceptable in another's eyes, just become the person you want to be for yourself.
25. Take the people you look up to the most and try to appropriate the best traits they have.
Another one, and this has probably be mentioned, but friends, even ones that you love and love you, can hurt you in tremendous ways. This was basically learned by a close friend and their drug problems.
Also, your friends will come and go, the person you were friends with the other day may not be your friend today. All you can do is enjoy your time with them, no matter how brief.
Finally, my favorite C.S. Lewis quote (knowing my luck, it's already been posted as well, but I gave up reading the whole thread around page five):
"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."