The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
Snowe is like the Ted Kennedy of Maine. Collins has had her up and down moments, and frankly the only thing that saved her last year was her history of opposition to Bush's most high-profile bullshit and a weak opponent. Maine just doesn't produce strong Democrats; they all end up leaving the state for somewhere with running water and fewer moose-strikes. Collins is always vulnerable; Snowe could eat a baby on camera at this point and still win by 20 points.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
A) The Dems are going to basically shepherd Specter through the Democratic primary. Probably was part of the deal. (You can still run against him; you're just on your own as far as support goes.)
The party is supposed to keep its hands out of the primary anyway. It is PA, though, which makes that more a platitude than a reality.
The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
Snowe is like the Ted Kennedy of Maine. Collins has had her up and down moments, and frankly the only thing that saved her last year was her history of opposition to Bush's most high-profile bullshit and a weak opponent. Maine just doesn't produce strong Democrats; they all end up leaving the state for somewhere with running water and fewer moose-strikes. Collins is always vulnerable; Snowe could eat a baby on camera at this point and still win by 20 points.
Is the flu thing actually causing Collins significant harm?
Or rather, is the swine flu actually the cause? Because seriously.
The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
Their unofficial "moderate Pubs" caucus has just been cut off at the knees, though. They'd have more power caucusing with the Dems and throwing in with Bayh's semi-fictional ConservaDem caucus.
Well, until Franken is seated they still have power. And they've been doing the "moderate Pub" thing for years. That's one of the reasons they're so popular. Maine's kind of conservative, but it's still New England.
They control 33% less of their own caucus than they did yesterday. That's a pretty hefty blow.
There's also the fact that power generally lies more with the votes to break a fillibuster than to enforce one. If they defect they can put the screws to the other side of the aisle instead of just being an assumed vote against cloture.
Fox News: "Highlighting the intense unpopularity of Obama's handling of the economy, support for his stimulus package among Republicans has dropped by 33% in the last day."
You're absolutely joking, right?
The fact that it's not obvious is hilarious.
Wait, no, what's the word?
Horrible. That's it.
The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"
I read that he was switching parties, but I was disappointed to learn he's still a Democrat.
A-hurrr!
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Fox News: "Highlighting the intense unpopularity of Obama's handling of the economy, support for his stimulus package among Republicans has dropped by 33% in the last day."
You're absolutely joking, right?
The fact that it's not obvious is hilarious.
Wait, no, what's the word?
Horrible. That's it.
The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"
We report, you decide exactly how horrible that filthy Specter person is being.
Okay, it appears that:
A) The Dems are going to basically shepherd Specter through the Democratic primary. Probably was part of the deal. (You can still run against him; you're just on your own as far as support goes.) The remaining Republicans are in a meeting; McConnell should have a statement out when that's over. That'll be fun.
Hmmm...I don't know that anybody will beat him, then, even with the EFCA stance. It might be a bit closer because of it, but I see him getting the nomination.
At which point he'll be the incumbent, without the GOP stench. Or at least with less of it.
The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"
That's awesome.
What, all six of them?
Who will still be willing to admit to being a "GOP voter" in another 18 months, after they've finished the trainwreck they're currently on course for? No, I think there will be a lot of "I'm generally an independent, but I think I've favoring Republicans this time around" voters.
In other words, Republicans are the new Democrats. But we knew that.
Anyway, welcome to the party Arlen! Also, that NRO line was hilarious.
Nor are all Republicans guaranteed to unite on a filibuster. But that's why I said if he becomes part of the democrat bloc as a whole, trying to stop filibusters, it will increase the likelihood of bills being passed with no republican support.
Good. I know I'm pretty tired of bipartisan bullshit half measures. WOO partisanship!
JebusUD on
I write you a story
But it loses its thread
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
Michael Steele with a reaction:
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
Their unofficial "moderate Pubs" caucus has just been cut off at the knees, though. They'd have more power caucusing with the Dems and throwing in with Bayh's semi-fictional ConservaDem caucus.
Well, until Franken is seated they still have power. And they've been doing the "moderate Pub" thing for years. That's one of the reasons they're so popular. Maine's kind of conservative, but it's still New England.
Even after they're going to have a lot of pull. Just because we have 60 votes on paper doesn't mean they'll actually show up, and even if they do that they won't demand a pound of flesh for their vote. It'll give leadership a bit more leverage if they have the stones to use it, but at the end of the day we're almost certain to lose people from the Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh rump on anything worth doing and need Collins, Snowe, and maybe Vionovich to make up for it.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.â€
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.
I mean its not like Specter is particularly popular among PA Dems. A 71/28 split for Dems isn't huge by partisan standards (in 06) but for a long term incumbent its not tiny either. I'd think it would take more than neutrality to make him a favorite in the Dem primary and that's assuming a real big name like Rendell (or even Nutter) doesn't challenge him.
The two Maine Senators are really popular, and even though Collins was involved with the pandemic thing on the stimulus bill, they're both actually quite good.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.”
Nor are all Republicans guaranteed to unite on a filibuster. But that's why I said if he becomes part of the democrat bloc as a whole, trying to stop filibusters, it will increase the likelihood of bills being passed with no republican support.
Good. I know I'm pretty tired of bipartisan bullshit half measures. WOO partisanship!
Actually, I was just about to say this, but I bet dollars to donuts that's how EFCA will play out, and ideally the same on a lot of other issues. On EFCA he can vote for cloture (to keep government functioning and allow the measure a fair up and down vote) while still staying with his word of voting against it on the up or down. With any luck this'll play out on other issues too, because at the end of the if we can get that it's worth letting Specter get a free ride.
It'll give leadership a bit more leverage if they have the stones to use it, but at the end of the day we're almost certain to lose people from the Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh rump on anything worth doing and need Collins, Snowe, and maybe Vionovich to make up for it.
Its a lot more difficult to play moderate when you become the de facto opposition. Previously they could point to the GOP and say "we have to compromise or they'll filibuster!" Now the only thing between cloture (once Franken is seated) and a filibuster is their unity. I think we'll see more "up and down" rhetoric out of them now (at least I hope) with votes for cloture but against the bill as their cover
Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.
It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record. Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don’t do it first.â€
I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.
Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.
It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.
He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.
Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.
I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.
My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans. Unlike Senator Jeffords’ switch which changed party control, I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free Choice (Card Check) will not change.
This seems more than a little odd to me. He's got a history with labor, and now that he's switching being against EFCA will hurt in the primary rather than help. Wonder what he's thinking.
Yeah this seems idiotic. Card check is down the list on priorities for me but it seems dumb to switch parties, thus burning bridges with the GOP and still refuse to budge on an issue that would help quite a bit in terms of unions.
I would hope that what this actually means is that he has realized that his views actually lie closer to the democrats and should thus label himself a democrat. His views won't change, its just that they are mainly democractic views.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
Why, one could indeed say that. If one weren't the dumbass selected by the RNC to run the ship aground.
Really, it's really a matter of Specter's views/record not lining up particularly well with either party, but the GOP suddenly becoming batshit insane.
If you're going to have friction between you and your party, it might as well be a sane party.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
Pft. Silly quid. Only republicans have principles.
"Some in the Republican Party are happy about this. I am not. Let’s be honest-Senator Specter didn’t leave the GOP based on principles of any kind. He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
Why, one could indeed say that. If one weren't the dumbass selected by the RNC to run the ship aground.
Really, it's really a matter of Specter's views/record not lining up particularly well with either party, but the GOP suddenly becoming batshit insane.
Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.
It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.
He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.
Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.
Now I very much want to see some post-announcement poll numbers for Rendell. He's unpopular as hell in the sticks, but that was dead ender territory anyway, and if Rendell is popular enough to win the Dem primary and someone like Toomey gets the R nod he way well win by default.
Yeah the neutral in the primary thing had to be part of the deal. Its the whip and the carrot in one, because if he continues being a douche nozzle, he might suddenly find Ed Rendell pounding his ass and coasting to victory.
It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.
He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.
Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.
Now I very much want to see some post-announcement poll numbers for Rendell. He's unpopular as hell in the sticks, but that was dead ender territory anyway, and if Rendell is popular enough to win the Dem primary and someone like Toomey gets the R nod he way well win by default.
Rendell won't primary Specter. They're practically life-partners at this point.
The question is, can the Dems use this as leverage against Bayh, Nelson, etc. They won't have the excuse of needing Republicans to provide cover any more.
Back to the first page, at least with regards to Nelson, this provides no leverage.
What do you think the Democrats can actually do to Nelson? If they pull support from him during a primary, they effectively concede the election and you will get a republican in his place. The man has huge approval ratings in Nebraska, and is a Senator in a fairly conservative state.
Unless Democrats want to take up the mantle of losing elections again, they won't do anything to Nelson. Blue Dog Democrats don't arise in a vacuum, and failing to recognize that will lead to trouble.
Also, I don't think EFCA is going to pass anyhow. A bunch of business groups have lobbied extensively against it, including comapnies that aren't really considered paragons of evil (Costco comes to mind) and furthermore, unions aren't the powerhouse they once were. Its future seems very much in doubt.
I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.
Yeah, I dont get it either.
People with power (perceived or real) don't like to give it up?
Delzhand on
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
And by the way, if you want to talk Republican purging... this isn't even the only story on that front today.
Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr., rising star out of Utah, got an appearance in Michigan canceled on him because he's not conservative enough.
So there's that. It's like watching a train wreck, where you think all the cars have overturned and it's horrible, and then there's a rift in the space-time continuum and six flaming propane trucks come out of the sky at Mach 1. It's still horrible, but now it's strangely awesome.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
I don't understand why any well off 80-year-old man would fight so hard to keep a job where everyone fucking hates you at one point or another. Seriously dude, just retire. Play golf, relax. The country can probably manage without you. Same goes for the rest of the 70+ crowd, and double for Byrd. Fucks sake.
Probably because of all the opportunities to spend time with a hooker that they just don't get at home.
Posts
Snowe is like the Ted Kennedy of Maine. Collins has had her up and down moments, and frankly the only thing that saved her last year was her history of opposition to Bush's most high-profile bullshit and a weak opponent. Maine just doesn't produce strong Democrats; they all end up leaving the state for somewhere with running water and fewer moose-strikes. Collins is always vulnerable; Snowe could eat a baby on camera at this point and still win by 20 points.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Is the flu thing actually causing Collins significant harm?
Or rather, is the swine flu actually the cause? Because seriously.
There's also the fact that power generally lies more with the votes to break a fillibuster than to enforce one. If they defect they can put the screws to the other side of the aisle instead of just being an assumed vote against cloture.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The ACTUAL Fox News headline is "Specter Turns Back on GOP Voters to Run as Democrat"
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
A-hurrr!
We report, you decide exactly how horrible that filthy Specter person is being.
Yeah.
Also, Jeffe's fake Fox quote is better than the real thing:
Edit: Beat, but damnit I have the image.
Hmmm...I don't know that anybody will beat him, then, even with the EFCA stance. It might be a bit closer because of it, but I see him getting the nomination.
At which point he'll be the incumbent, without the GOP stench. Or at least with less of it.
That's awesome.
What, all six of them?
Who will still be willing to admit to being a "GOP voter" in another 18 months, after they've finished the trainwreck they're currently on course for? No, I think there will be a lot of "I'm generally an independent, but I think I've favoring Republicans this time around" voters.
In other words, Republicans are the new Democrats. But we knew that.
Anyway, welcome to the party Arlen! Also, that NRO line was hilarious.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Good. I know I'm pretty tired of bipartisan bullshit half measures. WOO partisanship!
But it loses its thread
Even after they're going to have a lot of pull. Just because we have 60 votes on paper doesn't mean they'll actually show up, and even if they do that they won't demand a pound of flesh for their vote. It'll give leadership a bit more leverage if they have the stones to use it, but at the end of the day we're almost certain to lose people from the Nelson, Lincoln, Bayh rump on anything worth doing and need Collins, Snowe, and maybe Vionovich to make up for it.
I mean its not like Specter is particularly popular among PA Dems. A 71/28 split for Dems isn't huge by partisan standards (in 06) but for a long term incumbent its not tiny either. I'd think it would take more than neutrality to make him a favorite in the Dem primary and that's assuming a real big name like Rendell (or even Nutter) doesn't challenge him.
1/2 of the above is true.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Well...that's half true.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Actually, I was just about to say this, but I bet dollars to donuts that's how EFCA will play out, and ideally the same on a lot of other issues. On EFCA he can vote for cloture (to keep government functioning and allow the measure a fair up and down vote) while still staying with his word of voting against it on the up or down. With any luck this'll play out on other issues too, because at the end of the if we can get that it's worth letting Specter get a free ride.
Its a lot more difficult to play moderate when you become the de facto opposition. Previously they could point to the GOP and say "we have to compromise or they'll filibuster!" Now the only thing between cloture (once Franken is seated) and a filibuster is their unity. I think we'll see more "up and down" rhetoric out of them now (at least I hope) with votes for cloture but against the bill as their cover
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
It would be good to have a stick to back up the carrot, but Rendell isn't having an especially good run of it in PA lately, and there isn't much of a bench beyond that, certainly not with a lot of name recognition and the ability to really challenge Specter in s ahort period of time from a dead stop.
Clearly he believes in nothing! NOTHING!
^Arlen Spector^
"we believe in nothing Lebowski"
But it loses its thread
He's not as popular as before but he has enough sway in Philly to carry the primary by himself. Nutter probably does too. And Toomey is a joke with no shot in the general.
Remember Specter will have to win among Democrats (and I's? I'm not sure if Penn has open primaries), and he's far less popular in the party than Rendell, Nutter, etc.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Yeah, I dont get it either.
I would hope that what this actually means is that he has realized that his views actually lie closer to the democrats and should thus label himself a democrat. His views won't change, its just that they are mainly democractic views.
Doesn't that mean he's leaving for his principles if his voting record doesn't match up with the GOP?
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Why, one could indeed say that. If one weren't the dumbass selected by the RNC to run the ship aground.
Really, it's really a matter of Specter's views/record not lining up particularly well with either party, but the GOP suddenly becoming batshit insane.
If you're going to have friction between you and your party, it might as well be a sane party.
At least, that's how I like to think of it.
Is that the same way standards are a liberal trap?
Pft. Silly quid. Only republicans have principles.
But it loses its thread
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Now I very much want to see some post-announcement poll numbers for Rendell. He's unpopular as hell in the sticks, but that was dead ender territory anyway, and if Rendell is popular enough to win the Dem primary and someone like Toomey gets the R nod he way well win by default.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Back to the first page, at least with regards to Nelson, this provides no leverage.
What do you think the Democrats can actually do to Nelson? If they pull support from him during a primary, they effectively concede the election and you will get a republican in his place. The man has huge approval ratings in Nebraska, and is a Senator in a fairly conservative state.
Unless Democrats want to take up the mantle of losing elections again, they won't do anything to Nelson. Blue Dog Democrats don't arise in a vacuum, and failing to recognize that will lead to trouble.
Also, I don't think EFCA is going to pass anyhow. A bunch of business groups have lobbied extensively against it, including comapnies that aren't really considered paragons of evil (Costco comes to mind) and furthermore, unions aren't the powerhouse they once were. Its future seems very much in doubt.
People with power (perceived or real) don't like to give it up?
Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr., rising star out of Utah, got an appearance in Michigan canceled on him because he's not conservative enough.
So there's that. It's like watching a train wreck, where you think all the cars have overturned and it's horrible, and then there's a rift in the space-time continuum and six flaming propane trucks come out of the sky at Mach 1. It's still horrible, but now it's strangely awesome.