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Carpocalypse Now: And then there was one...

1246

Posts

  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I still dream about finding a Marauder in decent shape that some old guy drove, and just wants to move it out of his driveway for a pittance before going to the old age home ... :P

    They're out there. Only ran for a year or two so not that common, but they are out there.

    My plan, instead, is to pull the engine from my Lincoln when I've got time + money, and rebuild it with forged internals and high-flow heads. I should be able to get to around 400 fwhp without forced induction. That'll be a good day. Maybe someone will have figured out how to put the explorer's six speed transmission in a panther chassis by then.

    The alternative would be to get a 5.4 block and build that up and swap that in. a 5.4 swap into a panther chassis is pretty easy, and things like heads etc. are interchangeable between the 4.6 engines and the 5.4 engines.

    fshavlak on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    They're out there. Only ran for a year or two so not that common, but they are out there.

    My plan, instead, is to pull the engine from my Lincoln when I've got time + money, and rebuild it with forged internals and high-flow heads. I should be able to get to around 400 fwhp without forced induction. That'll be a good day. Maybe someone will have figured out how to put the explorer's six speed transmission in a panther chassis by then.

    The alternative would be to get a 5.4 block and build that up and swap that in. a 5.4 swap into a panther chassis is pretty easy, and things like heads etc. are interchangeable between the 4.6 engines and the 5.4 engines.

    You must have an interesting Town Car if it's FWD. :P

    Seriously though I would probably buy the shit out of any of the AARP-Approved rides - they're generally in great shape and depreciate pretty fast.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    They're out there. Only ran for a year or two so not that common, but they are out there.

    My plan, instead, is to pull the engine from my Lincoln when I've got time + money, and rebuild it with forged internals and high-flow heads. I should be able to get to around 400 fwhp without forced induction. That'll be a good day. Maybe someone will have figured out how to put the explorer's six speed transmission in a panther chassis by then.

    The alternative would be to get a 5.4 block and build that up and swap that in. a 5.4 swap into a panther chassis is pretty easy, and things like heads etc. are interchangeable between the 4.6 engines and the 5.4 engines.

    You must have an interesting Town Car if it's FWD. :P

    Seriously though I would probably buy the shit out of any of the AARP-Approved rides - they're generally in great shape and depreciate pretty fast.

    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    fshavlak on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    I was under the impression that Taurus's numbers were artificially padded because it was hit amongst rent-a-car operations and government operations. That real consumers never actually gave much of a shit about it.

    ElJeffe on
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  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    I was under the impression that Taurus's numbers were artificially padded because it was hit amongst rent-a-car operations and government operations. That real consumers never actually gave much of a shit about it.

    With one minor exception.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The Taurus is the worst car my family ever owned. What a piece of shit.

    geckahn on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    I was under the impression that Taurus's numbers were artificially padded because it was hit amongst rent-a-car operations and government operations. That real consumers never actually gave much of a shit about it.

    No, when it hit in the late 1980s people loved it.

    My dad owned a 1991 Sable, which was my car when I started driving in highschool. It was a great car ... for a 16 year old. It ran well and was dependable, but had a hilarious list of minor problems that we never bothered to fix.

    fshavlak on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    I was under the impression that Taurus's numbers were artificially padded because it was hit amongst rent-a-car operations and government operations. That real consumers never actually gave much of a shit about it.

    No, when it hit in the late 1980s people loved it.

    My dad owned a 1991 Sable, which was my car when I started driving in highschool. It was a great car ... for a 16 year old. It ran well and was dependable, but had a hilarious list of minor problems that we never bothered to fix.


    That seems to be par for the course for old Fords... The actual mechanical bits are solid, but the electronic door locks and cd players fail, or the cruise control switches stop working, or something like that.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.


    I've seen G8 GTs for 27k a couple of places. The GXP is still too new and is probably on too limited a production run to ever be sold for true bargain prices. Plus you can get a G8 GT at 27-29k, get an electronic tune, CAI, and exhaust sysrem, and you'll be within 30 or 40 HP of the GXP, and you can use the money left over to get a pedders suspension installed, and all that together will still cost you less than a 41k GXP.

    Jealous Deva on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.


    I've seen G8 GTs for 27k a couple of places. The GXP is still too new and is probably on too limited a production run to ever be sold for true bargain prices. Plus you can get a G8 GT at 27-29k, get an electronic tune, CAI, and exhaust sysrem, and you'll be within 30 or 40 HP of the GXP, and you can use the money left over to get a pedders suspension installed, and all that together will still cost you less than a 41k GXP.

    The 6 speed manual is only available on the GXP, sadly.

    fshavlak on
  • Monolithic_DomeMonolithic_Dome Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    So I'm one of those suckers who buys a new car, I guess :). Just bought an '09 Yaris, and I absolutely love it.

    My car before that: you guessed it, a piece of shit Sable.

    This thread reminded me that I was going to make an H/A thread about car maintenance, so I did:
    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=88955

    Monolithic_Dome on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.


    I've seen G8 GTs for 27k a couple of places. The GXP is still too new and is probably on too limited a production run to ever be sold for true bargain prices. Plus you can get a G8 GT at 27-29k, get an electronic tune, CAI, and exhaust sysrem, and you'll be within 30 or 40 HP of the GXP, and you can use the money left over to get a pedders suspension installed, and all that together will still cost you less than a 41k GXP.

    The 6 speed manual is only available on the GXP, sadly.

    This. But I'll consider an automatic G8 GT if it's available for a bargain.

    Shame they don't offer a blue one. I fucking love blue cars.

    PeregrineFalcon on
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  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.


    I've seen G8 GTs for 27k a couple of places. The GXP is still too new and is probably on too limited a production run to ever be sold for true bargain prices. Plus you can get a G8 GT at 27-29k, get an electronic tune, CAI, and exhaust sysrem, and you'll be within 30 or 40 HP of the GXP, and you can use the money left over to get a pedders suspension installed, and all that together will still cost you less than a 41k GXP.

    The 6 speed manual is only available on the GXP, sadly.

    This. But I'll consider an automatic G8 GT if it's available for a bargain.

    Shame they don't offer a blue one. I fucking love blue cars.

    The Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo is available with a manual and blue paint.

    Why don't I have the chance to buy such cars?

    If I ever in the future move to Australia, the cars available will be one of the biggest three reasons I move there.

    fshavlak on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    With the exception of Volvo, owned by Ford, and Mini, which only produces really one model of car, Ford beat out every European manufacture. Every brand of Ford beat out every European brand except one, which was firmly in the middle of Ford's brands.

    Ford beat European brands that make sport cars.

    Ford beat European brands that make sedans.

    Ford beat European brands that make compact cars.

    Ford beat European brands that make trucks and SUVs.

    Ford brands beat every European brand there is, and all Ford brands beat all European brands except one.

    Sorry it took me so long to respond, but I was trying to find some actual per-car data. The issue of Consumer Reports I had kicking around is now gone, and I wasn't going to subscribe to their online service just to win an internet debate, so I had to poke around. The best I could come up with is this list of the top 100 most reliable cars of the last decade. The European and American models that show up on that list, in order, are:

    Jaguar X-Type
    Volvo S40
    Mini
    Saab 9-5
    Mercedes SLK
    Citroen Xsara
    Ford Cougar
    Skoda Octavia
    Audi A4
    Volvo 850
    Fiat Brava
    Mercedes CLK
    Fiat Marea
    Ford Focus
    Peugot 106
    BMW Z3
    VW Polo
    Fiat Punto
    Mercedes C-Class

    And so on.

    I've taken the liberty of bolding the American-made cars on that list. You'll notice there's not a lot of bolding going on. (And most of it is in foreign brands bought up by domestics.)

    You harp on how Ford makes awesomely reliable cars. You'll notice, from the CR chart, they also make some of the most awesomely unreliable cars. The most reliable cars in any given class tend to be European or Japanese, and are rarely American.

    Going on that list, if you want a luxury car? Get a Jaguar. Want a small, sporty car? Get a Mini. Want a sport sedan? Get an Audi.

    I would go so far as to say that for any given car type, your best bet is almost never American. I say almost only because there must be one out there, though I can't think of a single one.

    Okay, tanks. If you want a tank, go American. There you go.

    ElJeffe on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Okay, tanks. If you want a tank, go American. There you go.

    American tanks are terrible on fuel economy, even compared to other tanks, and are expensive and difficult to maintain; there's a reason why Canada buys its tanks from Germany rather than from the US.
    :P

    Daedalus on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Daedalus wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Okay, tanks. If you want a tank, go American. There you go.

    American tanks are terrible on fuel economy, even compared to other tanks, and are expensive and difficult to maintain; there's a reason why Canada buys its tanks from Germany rather than from the US.
    :P

    And the power locks are always fucking going out, I mean really.

    ElJeffe on
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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Not positive here, but I'm fairly confident that if you want a Truck you buy American, ElJeffe

    Burtletoy on
  • clsCorwinclsCorwin Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Umm, isn't Jag owned by Ford? And don't they still have massive electrical gremlins still?

    clsCorwin on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Not positive here, but I'm fairly confident that if you want a Truck you buy American, ElJeffe

    Toyota Tundra?

    Note that I'm not saying domestic autos invariably fail at everything. Maybe domestic pick-ups have more power (in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised, given the American hard-on for horsepower), or some other feature to justify their purchase. Clearly if you want a muscle car, you'd go with a Mustang or a Charger or something.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    clsCorwin wrote: »
    Umm, isn't Jag owned by Ford? And don't they still have massive electrical gremlins still?

    Wikipedia shows them as owned by Tata, some multinational HQ'd in Mumbai.

    And maybe they do, I dunno. I was just going of what the poorly-formatted listing said.

    See, it's not that I claim to be an automotive expert. I know dick about Jaguars. All I know is that literally every time I see any sort of detailed ranking of automotive reliability, it shows domestic brands as sucking giant, hairy cocks as compared to their foreign counterparts. Every time I see some extended cost-of-ownership charts, they show domestics as expensive to maintain in the long-run due to malfunctions.

    There may be some great explanation for this, but I can only conclude that domestics just really like the cock.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • WifflebatWifflebat Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Not positive here, but I'm fairly confident that if you want a Truck you buy American, ElJeffe

    Toyota Tundra?

    Well...

    Admittedly, that's a limited issue, but it does show that foreign makes aren't immune to niggling reliability foibles.

    Wifflebat on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    clsCorwin wrote: »
    Umm, isn't Jag owned by Ford? And don't they still have massive electrical gremlins still?

    Wikipedia shows them as owned by Tata, some multinational HQ'd in Mumbai.

    And maybe they do, I dunno. I was just going of what the poorly-formatted listing said.

    See, it's not that I claim to be an automotive expert. I know dick about Jaguars. All I know is that literally every time I see any sort of detailed ranking of automotive reliability, it shows domestic brands as sucking giant, hairy cocks as compared to their foreign counterparts. Every time I see some extended cost-of-ownership charts, they show domestics as expensive to maintain in the long-run due to malfunctions.

    There may be some great explanation for this, but I can only conclude that domestics just really like the cock.

    Jags were really really awful (like, unbelievably so) until the Late 90s, when the became OK (this was due to Ford buying the company and enforcing manufacturing standards).

    Jag was very recently sold to Tata, and the effect this will have on their build quality remains to be seen.

    As for Toyota trucks. Apparently they rust really quickly. This affected a bunch of early '90s vehicles (if you've seen a photo of a truck cab on a lift, with the bed hanging down like it's on a hinge cause the frame snapped it was probably a toyota). I thought they'd gotten past that but apparently it's affecting 95-01 Tundras, also, so I wouldn't be surprised if the current gen suffers in the same way.

    I'm looking to get my hands on an F-250 diesel 4x4. I'd prefer pre-1998 (older style had less problems). You can run those powerstrokes on waste vegetable oil without too much hassle and never pay for fuel again.

    I don't really need a truck except for making an upcoming cross-country move (and there are better ways to do that than buying a truck) and dealing with the weather when I get there (4x4 would do better in the snow than open diff rear drive), so because I'm cheap it probably won't happen.

    I do want one, though.

    fshavlak on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    Jags were really really awful (like, unbelievably so) until the Late 90s, when the became OK (this was due to Ford buying the company and enforcing manufacturing standards).

    Jag was very recently sold to Tata, and the effect this will have on their build quality remains to be seen.

    Fair enough. See, I thought Jag was owned by someone domestic, and the Tata thing confused me.
    As for Toyota trucks. Apparently they rust really quickly. This affected a bunch of early '90s vehicles (if you've seen a photo of a truck cab on a lift, with the bed hanging down like it's on a hinge cause the frame snapped it was probably a toyota). I thought they'd gotten past that but apparently it's affecting 95-01 Tundras, also, so I wouldn't be surprised if the current gen suffers in the same way.

    Ah. I had an 83 Toyota pickup that lasted me until 2000 with nary an issue, until I sold it for a Civic for the improved gas mileage.

    ElJeffe on
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I've never had one of Toyota's trucks but my old S-10 I got from my dad was outstanding. Over 100k and it only ever needed a new starter. I've got a Ranger now and it's been alright, but also still fairly new too.

    Quid on
  • geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Ive got a 02 Saab 9-5. The drivetrain is in fantastic shape, but the small things that would never be an issue on a toyota or a honda are a bit of a problem.

    I can fix them for relatively little money and time, but it can be annoying.

    geckahn on
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    My dad owned a 1991 Sable, which was my car when I started driving in highschool. It was a great car ... for a 16 year old. It ran well and was dependable, but had a hilarious list of minor problems that we never bothered to fix.

    Conversely I drove a '91 Sable in HS in the '99-'02 range. My dad bought it new and took great care of it and drove it like a grandma. When I drove the car (with my dad still maintaining it) I had the following problems:

    - fucked transmission that would clunk every time I got down to 5mph
    - ignition would cut out occasionally when coasting
    - the right door would clunk open even if it was locked if I took left turns to fast
    - the amp/radio didn't work unless it was above ~85 degrees
    - the sunroof didn't work
    - the antennae didn't work
    - the windshield wipers would go off if I turned on the right blinker
    - the left blinker would blink twice is fast iff I had the windshield wipers on

    Moral of the story: go anecdotes!

    Also I am having trouble of thinking how to compare any domestic brand (ford, gm, etc. and not the foreign cars owned by a domestic company) to brands like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes. Those companies produce a lot of luxury sports cars. I can't think of any domestic luxury sports cars.

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Also I am having trouble of thinking how to compare any domestic brand (ford, gm, etc. and not the foreign cars owned by a domestic company) to brands like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes. Those companies produce a lot of luxury sports cars. I can't think of any domestic luxury sports cars.

    That's one of the reasons I was trying to specify that you needed to compare like models. Ford being more reliable than BMW doesn't mean much in itself. You can easily compare, say, Audi to BMW - they're direct competitors. I guess maybe you could compare the Z4 to domestic cars like the Plymouth Prowler, or the Saturn Sky (in which case I think the Z4 wins on reliability, but don't hold me to that). If you want to compare the BMW to something domestic, you have to go with Cadillac. And Cadillacs suck.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    If you want to compare the BMW to something domestic, you have to go with Cadillac. And Cadillacs suck.

    Oh right, I forgot they started producing things like the CTS.

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • WifflebatWifflebat Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    If you want to compare the BMW to something domestic, you have to go with Cadillac. And Cadillacs suck.

    Oh right, I forgot they started producing things like the CTS.

    And the STS.

    Wifflebat on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    My dad owned a 1991 Sable, which was my car when I started driving in highschool. It was a great car ... for a 16 year old. It ran well and was dependable, but had a hilarious list of minor problems that we never bothered to fix.

    Conversely I drove a '91 Sable in HS in the '99-'02 range. My dad bought it new and took great care of it and drove it like a grandma. When I drove the car (with my dad still maintaining it) I had the following problems:

    - fucked transmission that would clunk every time I got down to 5mph
    - ignition would cut out occasionally when coasting
    - the right door would clunk open even if it was locked if I took left turns to fast
    - the amp/radio didn't work unless it was above ~85 degrees
    - the sunroof didn't work
    - the antennae didn't work
    - the windshield wipers would go off if I turned on the right blinker
    - the left blinker would blink twice is fast iff I had the windshield wipers on

    Moral of the story: go anecdotes!

    Also I am having trouble of thinking how to compare any domestic brand (ford, gm, etc. and not the foreign cars owned by a domestic company) to brands like BMW, Audi, and Mercedes. Those companies produce a lot of luxury sports cars. I can't think of any domestic luxury sports cars.

    Sounds like you had a great highschool car also. I'm of the opinion that a high school should have at least as much character as the school it serves.

    - tachometer was out on mine. Occasionally it would behave normally, most of the times it would either read zero or point off into the nothing between 0 and 7 ... and wander there restlessly. It would start working normally when I really got on the gas and took the engine past 5k - the tach would snap alert and do its thing, until the upshift, then it would freak out again
    - radio had stopped working, but I put an aftermarket CD player in anyway.

    Everything else was not the car's fault but the result of damage
    - old lady in church parking lot took out the passenger side taillight. Couldn't find an exact match in a junkyard, settled on one that would fit. Driver's side taillight was the gussied up chrome-strip mercury unit. passenger's side was the plain jane taurus part.

    -dent near trunk latch cause the trunk to no longer remain closed on hot days. We knew summer had come when we left school and found my car in the parking lot with the trunk hanging open.

    -hail damage. The car had been totaled by a hail storm and purchased back from the insurance company. Twice.

    - Fading paint. It started life black, but like people, it was going gray with age.

    -Wheels. The stock alloys stopped holding air so we replaced with cheap junkyard wheels. The guy at the junkyard assured us they were low mileage and hadn't been in an accident. How did they come to be in a junkyard? we didn't ask.

    In other words, it was everything that a first car should be.

    fshavlak on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fshavlak wrote: »
    fly wheel horsepower (before powertrain losses).

    Wheel horsepower is whp regardless or fwd/rwd/awd.

    I normally just call that "hp" - sorry for the confusion. Makes for easier comparisons to magazine racers/riceboys since the day they dyno their shit is the day they cry themselves to sleep. :P

    But yeah, anyhow. Back closer to the topic of this, has anyone seen huge price slashing measures from GM on the "Oldsmobiled" brands? I'd be all over a cheap G8 GXP.


    I've seen G8 GTs for 27k a couple of places. The GXP is still too new and is probably on too limited a production run to ever be sold for true bargain prices. Plus you can get a G8 GT at 27-29k, get an electronic tune, CAI, and exhaust sysrem, and you'll be within 30 or 40 HP of the GXP, and you can use the money left over to get a pedders suspension installed, and all that together will still cost you less than a 41k GXP.

    The 6 speed manual is only available on the GXP, sadly.

    This. But I'll consider an automatic G8 GT if it's available for a bargain.

    Shame they don't offer a blue one. I fucking love blue cars.

    2301354290061347844S425x425Q85.jpg

    2009g8pics003.jpg

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Not positive here, but I'm fairly confident that if you want a Truck you buy American, ElJeffe

    Toyota Tundra?

    Note that I'm not saying domestic autos invariably fail at everything. Maybe domestic pick-ups have more power (in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised, given the American hard-on for horsepower), or some other feature to justify their purchase. Clearly if you want a muscle car, you'd go with a Mustang or a Charger or something.

    Tundras? No. Just don't.


    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/29/reports-of-aggressively-rusting-toyota-pickup-frames-mounting/

    tundra-rust.jpg

    Jealous Deva on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    That article seems to imply it's limited to 95-01. Are you saying that all Toyota Tundras ever produced have that problem, and thus the non-95-01 Tundra I posted must necessarily be a rusty piece of shit? Or... what, exactly?

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »

    And so on.

    I've taken the liberty of bolding the American-made cars on that list. You'll notice there's not a lot of bolding going on. (And most of it is in foreign brands bought up by domestics.)



    Lets try that again.

    Normal=Japanese
    Bold= American
    Italic = European

    American-owned foreign makes are done in combination.


    1 Honda Accord 2 Subaru Forester 3 Mazda MX-5 4 Mitsubishi Carisma 5 Toyota Yaris 6 Honda Civic 7 Nissan Almera 8 Honda CR-V 9 Toyota RAV4 10 Nissan Micra 11 Lexus IS 200 12 Mazda 626 13 Jaguar X-Type 14 Toyota Landcruiser 15 Volvo S/V40 16 MINI (BMW) 17 Suzuki Vitara 18 Mazda 323 19 Toyota Carina E 20 Saab 9-5 21 Lexus LS400 22 Ford Ka 23 Rover 45 24 Hyundai Lantra 25 Mercedes SLK 26 Citroen Xsara 27 Ford Cougar 28 Subaru Impreza 29 Skoda Octavia 30 Audi A4 31 Nissan Primera 32 Toyota Avensis 33 Volvo 850 34 Vauxhall Corsa 35 Seat Toledo 36 Volkswagen Golf 37 Daewoo Lanos 38 Fiat Brava 39 Hyundai Coupe 40 Mitsubishi Shogun 41 Rover 25 42 Mercedes CLK 43 Fiat Marea 44 Ford Focus 45 Peugeot 106 46 MG MG TF 47 BMW Z3 48 Hyundai Accent 49 Volkswagen Polo 50 Fiat Punto 51 Vauxhall Zafira 52 Mercedes C-class 53 Volvo S60 54 Toyota MR2 55 Mazda Xedos 6 56 Ford Puma 57 Vauxhall Astra 58 Vauxhall Omega 59 Chrysler Neon 60 Audi A2 61 Ford Fiesta 62 Ford Mondeo 63 Vauxhall Corsa 64 Citroen Saxo 65 BMW 3 Series 66 Vauxhall Vectra 67 Isuzu Trooper 68 Mercedes M-Class 69 Subaru Legacy 70 Rover 400 71 Fiat Ulysse 72 Mercedes E-Class 73 Renault Clio 74 Toyota Celica 75 Peugeot 306 76 Peugeot 406 77 Volvo S70 78 Rover 75 79 Daewoo Matiz 80 Peugeot 206 81 Mazda MX-3 82 Vauxhall Tigra 83 Seat Ibiza 84 Peugeot 106 85 Renault Megane 86 Peugeot 406 87 Saab 9-3 88 Audi A3 89 BMW X5 90 Mercedes S-class 91 Toyota Corolla 92 Seat Alhambra 93 BMW 5-series 94 Daewoo Nubira 95 Alfa Romeo 145 96 Saab 900 97 Mazda MX-6 98 Jaguar S-Type 99 Daewoo Leganza 100 Porsche Boxster


    Also, part of the reason why there are so many European cars on there is fairly obvious... This is quite clearly a UK survey given the fact that cars like the Ford Mondeo, Vauxhauls, etc are using their UK names instead of their US names.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    That article seems to imply it's limited to 95-01. Are you saying that all Toyota Tundras ever produced have that problem, and thus the non-95-01 Tundra I posted must necessarily be a rusty piece of shit? Or... what, exactly?

    So what we're only judging cars by the last 8 years now?

    Jealous Deva on
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    That article seems to imply it's limited to 95-01. Are you saying that all Toyota Tundras ever produced have that problem, and thus the non-95-01 Tundra I posted must necessarily be a rusty piece of shit? Or... what, exactly?

    Reading more about this story it appears that Dana Holding (based in Ohio) supplied the frames for these trucks and didn't properly apply the rust protection.

    The reason that this reflects poorly on other toyota trucks is that this isn't the first time Toyota trucks have corroded away into nothing. At the time of the Tacoma buyout Toyota claimed that the Tundra was not affected. Apparently the Tundra is just as bad.

    Given the timeline it's likely that the same underlying problem caused both issues, but even before 1995 japanese trucks didn't hold up well to the harsher climates.

    Buying a truck, I'd go domestic, but that's mostly because my budget is small and I want a full size, so I'd be looking for a truck with a diesel engine and an eight foot bed from the mid 90s. That leaves me with the choice of Ford, GM, or Dodge.

    fshavlak on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Fair enough.

    Now please point out the awesome American counterparts to the sport sedans of BMW, Audi and Mercedes, and the sports cars of Porsche, that totally kick their asses on matters of reliability.

    Also, you managed to take an almost unreadable paragraph and make it even harder to parse. Congrats. I get what you're trying to do, but my eyeballs looked at that and then vomited. I didn't know eyeballs could do that.

    I'm not quite sure what you're arguing any more. Are you saying that not every American-made car is a piece of shit? Fine, I agree with you. I'll even admit that maybe I was hasty in implying that literally every American car has a more reliable European counterpart. Are you saying that American cars are inherently more reliable than European cars? Because you're pretty much wrong, unless you're sticking with the "Ford Focus > Porsche Boxster" angle.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    That article seems to imply it's limited to 95-01. Are you saying that all Toyota Tundras ever produced have that problem, and thus the non-95-01 Tundra I posted must necessarily be a rusty piece of shit? Or... what, exactly?

    So what we're only judging cars by the last 8 years now?

    Well, you were judging cars by only a 6-year chunk of time. That's better?

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Taurus is a sad story. It used to kick Accord's and Camry's asses up and down the block in North America. And then Ford just quit on it. Well, that's not true. First they beat it with an ugly stick till only Hertz could love it, then they quit on it.

    I was under the impression that Taurus's numbers were artificially padded because it was hit amongst rent-a-car operations and government operations. That real consumers never actually gave much of a shit about it.

    No, when it hit in the late 1980s people loved it.

    It was one of the first American mainstream cars to put any consideration into aerodynamics. The front was lower than the back, and it had rounded edges and non-recessed wheels to help handling when everything else in Detroit was right angled barges.

    And it probably saved Ford from needing a bailout 20 years ago, when disasters like the Tempo were on the verge of burying the company. By the mid-late 90s it had definitely been bypassed though, and that's when it was largely relegated to fleet/rental.

    BubbaT on
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