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Carpocalypse Now: And then there was one...

1235

Posts

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    Now please point out the awesome American counterparts to the sport sedans of BMW, Audi and Mercedes, and the sports cars of Porsche, that totally kick their asses on matters of reliability.

    Also, you managed to take an almost unreadable paragraph and make it even harder to parse. Congrats. I get what you're trying to do, but my eyeballs looked at that and then vomited. I didn't know eyeballs could do that.

    I'm not quite sure what you're arguing any more. Are you saying that not every American-made car is a piece of shit? Fine, I agree with you. I'll even admit that maybe I was hasty in implying that literally every American car has a more reliable European counterpart. Are you saying that American cars are inherently more reliable than European cars? Because you're pretty much wrong, unless you're sticking with the "Ford Focus > Porsche Boxster" angle.

    They don't even make sports sedans in the US for the most part... Of course the Europeans are going to beat the Americans in a category that they don't produce.


    Of course, they do make sports sedans in Japan, and the Japanese sports sedan makers like Infiniti absolutely dominate European makers in every reliability survey.


    But lets put that aside for a second. They absolutely do make familly sedans and compacts in Europe. And guess what, Ford absolutely dominates European makers in every reliability survey on those cars.


    So yes, I am saying Ford cars specifically are better, at the current time, than European makes in reliability.


    Which is of course what the original point was, not that Audi makes a better sports sedan for the UK market or whatever point you seem to be trying to make.


    Edit: To get to the absurdity of your argument I could also ask you where the European car is that could compete with the Ford Mustang in reliability in the sub-25k sports coupe segment. Well? How about the US market European truck that can compete with the reliability of the F-150?

    Jealous Deva on
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    The only thing that really upsets me is that you can bet all of this business is going to kill the (rumored) Camaro Z28, and certainly won't help the 'Vette. So long G8 GXP (why can't you just rebrand this amazing car?!), goodbye Cadillac's new forays into sports-luxury. Unfortunately most people (and especially the beancounters who will have GM under the largest microscope in the world) don't see the point in cars with soul.

    Gooey on
    919UOwT.png
  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Rumor is Ford will be globally rearranging their product lines. Hopefully, we get the European Focus and get rid of the abomination that is the American Ford Focus.

    Have you seen one lately? It looks like a happy retard that's having its asshole tickled.

    1ddqd on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    They don't even make sports sedans in the US for the most part... Of course the Europeans are going to beat the Americans in a category that they don't produce.

    Sorry, I forgot Cadillac didn't exist. But largely, yes, that was my point. It's difficult to compare the most popular European brands, because they have no domestic analogues. Meanwhile, you were all "FORD BEATS EVERYONE OLOL." The few prominent examples we have of direct competition - vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, the Chevy Corvette, the Dodge Viper - get destroyed by the likes of BMW and Porsche. You know, apples to apples.
    Of course, they do make sports sedans in Japan, and the Japanese sports sedan makers like Infiniti absolutely dominate European makers in every reliability survey.

    And? What do the Japanese car makers have to do with anything?
    But lets put that aside for a second. They absolutely do make familly sedans and compacts in Europe. And guess what, Ford absolutely dominates European makers in every reliability survey on those cars.

    Perhaps that is the case. I will happily concede, as I don't know much about cars that don't exist in the US. I was referring to the cars that US consumers can actually buy; sorry if you misunderstood.

    Now, maybe it's a case of selection bias. The European cars that succeed in the US are disproportionately the most awesome. Nobody here wants to buy the Fiat Weenie at a premium when they can buy the Ford Lameo for 25% less. They do want to buy the BMW 3-series and the Audi A4 and the Porsche Boxster and the Cooper Mini because those cars rock. And so those cars are sold here, which makes European cars look better than they really are.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    They don't even make sports sedans in the US for the most part... Of course the Europeans are going to beat the Americans in a category that they don't produce.

    Sorry, I forgot Cadillac didn't exist. But largely, yes, that was my point. It's difficult to compare the most popular European brands, because they have no domestic analogues. Meanwhile, you were all "FORD BEATS EVERYONE OLOL." The few prominent examples we have of direct competition - vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, the Chevy Corvette, the Dodge Viper - get destroyed by the likes of BMW and Porsche. You know, apples to apples.
    Of course, they do make sports sedans in Japan, and the Japanese sports sedan makers like Infiniti absolutely dominate European makers in every reliability survey.

    And? What do the Japanese car makers have to do with anything?
    But lets put that aside for a second. They absolutely do make familly sedans and compacts in Europe. And guess what, Ford absolutely dominates European makers in every reliability survey on those cars.

    Perhaps that is the case. I will happily concede, as I don't know much about cars that don't exist in the US. I was referring to the cars that US consumers can actually buy; sorry if you misunderstood.

    Now, maybe it's a case of selection bias. The European cars that succeed in the US are disproportionately the most awesome. Nobody here wants to buy the Fiat Weenie at a premium when they can buy the Ford Lameo for 25% less. They do want to buy the BMW 3-series and the Audi A4 and the Porsche Boxster and the Cooper Mini because those cars rock. And so those cars are sold here, which makes European cars look better than they really are.


    Volkswagen doesn't sell cars in the US?

    News to me.

    Jealous Deva on
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    1ddqd wrote: »
    Rumor is Ford will be globally rearranging their product lines. Hopefully, we get the European Focus and get rid of the abomination that is the American Ford Focus.

    Have you seen one lately? It looks like a happy retard that's having its asshole tickled.

    I think ford has a chance to survive since they already produce a lot of smaller fuel efficient cars (for european markets) which is what will hopefully be in demand once gas prices skyrocket again this summer.

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    You are correct, Jealous Deva. Domestic cars are the very bestest, and European cars all suck. I am going to sell my 4Runner and get a Ford Explorer and I will ask the dealer if they can mount a giant, steel cock on the hood so I can fellate it every night before bed.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    You are correct, Jealous Deva. Domestic cars are the very bestest, and European cars all suck. I am going to sell my 4Runner and get a Ford Explorer and I will ask the dealer if they can mount a giant, steel cock on the hood so I can fellate it every night before bed.

    Have fun with that.

    Jealous Deva on
  • WifflebatWifflebat Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »

    Sorry, I forgot Cadillac didn't exist. But largely, yes, that was my point. It's difficult to compare the most popular European brands, because they have no domestic analogues. Meanwhile, you were all "FORD BEATS EVERYONE OLOL." The few prominent examples we have of direct competition - vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, the Chevy Corvette, the Dodge Viper - get destroyed by the likes of BMW and Porsche. You know, apples to apples.

    Whoa whoa whoa here. I realize I'm selectively quoting, but the CTS and Corvette do not get destroyed by BMW and Porsche, not by damn sight.

    - The C6 Corvette, dollar to dollar, trim level to trim level, hangs with anything BMW or Porsche can offer on a race track, on reliability, and on maintenance cost.

    - The CTS and the CTS-V are competitive with their competitors, with equal interiors, for much the same cost.

    - The Viper is not comparable to anything, really. I doubt there are a lot of people comp shopping it.

    Wifflebat on
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wifflebat wrote: »
    Whoa whoa whoa here. I realize I'm selectively quoting, but the CTS and Corvette do not get destroyed by BMW and Porsche, not by damn sight.

    - The C6 Corvette, dollar to dollar, trim level to trim level, hangs with anything BMW or Porsche can offer on a race track, on reliability, and on maintenance cost.

    Pretty much. The Corvette is the best sports car per dollar in the world. Not to mention the fact that the upper end versions (Z06 and ZR1) absolutely destroy supercars costing 2, 3, 4 times as much.

    Gooey on
    919UOwT.png
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Wifflebat wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »

    Sorry, I forgot Cadillac didn't exist. But largely, yes, that was my point. It's difficult to compare the most popular European brands, because they have no domestic analogues. Meanwhile, you were all "FORD BEATS EVERYONE OLOL." The few prominent examples we have of direct competition - vehicles like the Cadillac CTS, the Chevy Corvette, the Dodge Viper - get destroyed by the likes of BMW and Porsche. You know, apples to apples.

    Whoa whoa whoa here. I realize I'm selectively quoting, but the CTS and Corvette do not get destroyed by BMW and Porsche, not by damn sight.

    - The C6 Corvette, dollar to dollar, trim level to trim level, hangs with anything BMW or Porsche can offer on a race track, on reliability, and on maintenance cost.

    - The CTS and the CTS-V are competitive with their competitors, with equal interiors, for much the same cost.

    - The Viper is not comparable to anything, really. I doubt there are a lot of people comp shopping it.

    The CTS is actually price-competitive with the 3 series, while being size-competitive with the 5.

    They did have some reliability problems with the 2008 version, though (whether anyone cross shopping a CTS vs a 5 series really cares about reliability is a big question, though, and you could do a complete drivetrain replacement twice for the 15-20k difference between what a CTS and a comparable 5-series will run you, though.)

    The Porsche 911 is more reliable car for car than the C6, but again you could buy 2 base C6's for the price of a 911 and have an extra to drive around while your first one is in the shop. Not to mention the huge price difference between a ZR1 and it's closest performance competitor, the Carrera GT2, where you could probably buy a ZR1 and build a house with a garage to put it in for the price of the Porsche.

    Jealous Deva on
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It might help, before using the Consumer Reports survey as a source, to actually read the consumer reports survey.

    For comparison, here are some articles on the major British surveys:

    JD Power Customer Satisfaction (2008 numbers, 2007 in brackets):
    http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=52478
    1. Lexus (1)
    2. Skoda (3)
    3. Honda (2)
    4. Toyota (4)
    5. Jaguar (6)
    6. Mercedes-Benz (12)
    7. Audi (7)
    8. Mini (9)
    9. Mazda (8)
    10. BMW (11)
    11. Subaru (16)
    12. Volvo (10)
    13. Nissan (15)
    14. Volkswagen (13)

    [Industry average]

    15. Ford (18)
    16. Land Rover (22)
    17. Hyundai (not ranked)
    18. Vauxhall (26)
    19. Saab (27)
    20. Suzuki (24)
    21. Seat (20)
    22. Peugeot (29)
    23. Renault (23)
    24. Citroen (21)
    25. Kia (17)
    26. Chevrolet (28)
    27. Mitsubishi (25)
    28. Fiat (30)


    "Which? Car" reliability survey:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7464980.stm
    Most reliable:
    - Supermini: Honda Jazz/Skoda Fabia
    - Mini MPV: Skoda Roomster
    - Medium car: Volvo C30
    - Large car: Honda Civic Hybrid
    - Luxury car: Mercedes-Benz E Class
    - MPV: Honda FR-V/Seat Altea/VW Golf Plus
    - Off-roader: Lexus RX
    - Sport & Coupe: Audi TT/Mazda MX-5

    Least reliable:
    - Supermini: Fiat Grande Punto
    - Mini MPV: Suzuki SX4
    - Medium car: Honda Civic/Citroen C4
    - Large car: VW Passat/Citroen C5
    - MPV: Ford Galaxy/Ford S-Max
    - Off-roader: Land Rover Discovery 3
    - Sport & Coupes: Mercedes-Benz SLK

    Based on that, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between a manufacturer's country and reliability.

    Some Japanese manufacturers (e.g. Toyota) are great, others (e.g. Suzuki and Mitsubishi) are poor. Some US manufacturers do OK (e.g. Ford, apart from their MPVs), others fail (e.g. Chevrolet). European manufacturers are all over the place, with Skoda doing brilliantly, and Fiat doing very poorly.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Marlor wrote: »
    It might help, before using the Consumer Reports survey as a source, to actually read the consumer reports survey.

    For comparison, here are some articles on the major British surveys:

    JD Power Customer Satisfaction (2008 numbers, 2007 in brackets):
    http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=52478
    1. Lexus (1)
    2. Skoda (3)
    3. Honda (2)
    4. Toyota (4)
    5. Jaguar (6)
    6. Mercedes-Benz (12)
    7. Audi (7)
    8. Mini (9)
    9. Mazda (8)
    10. BMW (11)
    11. Subaru (16)
    12. Volvo (10)
    13. Nissan (15)
    14. Volkswagen (13)

    [Industry average]

    15. Ford (18)
    16. Land Rover (22)
    17. Hyundai (not ranked)
    18. Vauxhall (26)
    19. Saab (27)
    20. Suzuki (24)
    21. Seat (20)
    22. Peugeot (29)
    23. Renault (23)
    24. Citroen (21)
    25. Kia (17)
    26. Chevrolet (28)
    27. Mitsubishi (25)
    28. Fiat (30)


    "Which? Car" reliability survey:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7464980.stm
    Most reliable:
    - Supermini: Honda Jazz/Skoda Fabia
    - Mini MPV: Skoda Roomster
    - Medium car: Volvo C30
    - Large car: Honda Civic Hybrid
    - Luxury car: Mercedes-Benz E Class
    - MPV: Honda FR-V/Seat Altea/VW Golf Plus
    - Off-roader: Lexus RX
    - Sport & Coupe: Audi TT/Mazda MX-5

    Least reliable:
    - Supermini: Fiat Grande Punto
    - Mini MPV: Suzuki SX4
    - Medium car: Honda Civic/Citroen C4
    - Large car: VW Passat/Citroen C5
    - MPV: Ford Galaxy/Ford S-Max
    - Off-roader: Land Rover Discovery 3
    - Sport & Coupes: Mercedes-Benz SLK

    Based on that, there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between a manufacturer's country and reliability.

    Some Japanese manufacturers (e.g. Toyota) are great, others (e.g. Suzuki and Mitsubishi) are poor. Some US manufacturers do OK (e.g. Ford, apart from their MPVs), others fail (e.g. Chevrolet). European manufacturers are all over the place, with Skoda doing brilliantly, and Fiat doing very poorly.


    It's important to point out here that Chevrolet UK is a bit different than Chevrolet US, in the UK Chevrolet is mostly cars derived from Daewoos IIRC and Vauxhall sells the cars based on the platforms that are sold as "Chevrolets" in the US.

    Jealous Deva on
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's important to point out here that Chevrolet UK is a bit different than Chevrolet US, in the UK Chevrolet is mostly cars derived from Daewoos IIRC and Vauxhall sells the cars based on the platforms that are sold as "Chevrolets" in the US.

    In that case, the American manufacturers seem to be pretty much spot on the industry average for reliability (when it comes to their UK cars).

    They're certainly no Toyota, Honda or Skoda, but they're well ahead of the likes of Kia, Mitsubishi and Fiat.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Apparently the corvette isn't good for anything. And I like how Europe is considered a country when people talk cars too.

    Who in the fuck buys a premium sports car for reliability anyways? :P Have you seen the maintenance schedule on a fucking Audi that you're talking so highly of?

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    And I like how Europe is considered a country when people talk cars too.

    The European manufacturers are spread throughout the continent to such an extent that it makes sense to. Where is Skoda from? Its HQ is in the Czech Republic, it is owned by a German company, and many of the cars are made in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It's European.

    Similarly, the other Volkswagen marques are made all over Europe, as are Peugeot-Citroen and Renault cars.

    Fiat is very much still rooted in Italy (with the exception of the Polish and Turkish plants), but they're the exception.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Therefore at least a third of any given list of vehicles should be american?

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MarlorMarlor Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Chrysler is bankrupt.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN3036863020090430

    The talks have apparently broken down, despite the Treasury increasing their offer, and Chrysler is headed to bankruptcy court.

    Escaping that fate was always a long shot... but it's pretty much confirmed that the talks have now failed.

    Marlor on
    Mario Kart Wii: 1332-8060-5236 (Aaron)
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    Going to be. They apparently still have til the end of friday (today) to work out a deal with Fiat but they're cut off after that.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Good riddance to Chrysler. GM and Ford started making good cars but the best Chrysler could give us were generation old rebodied mercedes.

    I imagine that Jeep (the only brand chrysler had that isn't awful) will get bought and will be the only survivor.

    fshavlak on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    fshavlak wrote: »
    I imagine that Jeep (the only brand chrysler had that isn't awful) will get bought and will be the only survivor.

    I would point out that Jeeps are prone to breaking down as you drive them off the goddamned car lot, except I would probably be assaulted by people telling me that Jeeps are tiny gods and how I dare I slander their good name.

    They're good if you need to go 4-wheeling, sure. Just bring a spare... everything.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    I would like you to point out to me a reliable source saying Jeeps are prone to breaking down as you drive them off the goddamned lot.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Well, here's the 2008 Wrangler. It's even from JD Power, not those horrible lying liars at Consumer Reports. Note that it has pretty much the lowest ranking they give across the board (for some reason, they apparently never give 1-star ratings? Whatever.)

    Here's the 2009 Grand Cherokee. Lookie here, it sucks too!

    I suppose this is where you call me out for using hyperbole? I regretfully admit that not all Jeeps literally explode into shrapnel as soon as they set tire off the lot, and beg your forgiveness. But seriously, I've never heard a sane person hold Jeep up as a bastion of reliability. I had a Jeep Wrangler when I was a kid. I recall it was literally ranked as the single most unreliable automobile of its year, which did not surprise me because it was breaking all the fucking time.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    Volkswagen doesn't sell cars in the US?

    News to me.

    Late, but as I understand it they don't sell the same model range in the US as they do in Europe. Mostly because the US has a distinct aversion to small cars.

    I believe, for example, that the smallest car VW sells in the US is a Golf? There are two models smaller than it sold here. Something approximately Golf or Ford Focus sized is what most Europeans will think of if you were to say "family car".

    I'm not certain Fiat, for example, actually produce a model they could convincingly sell in the US without it being treated like a novelty. Renault and Peugeot/Citroen are probably in a similar boat, though like VW they could probably sell a couple of the bigger vehicles from their range.

    It's really difficult to do a like-for-like comparison between Euro and US cars because there's a fairly narrow range of overlap.

    japan on
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    fshavlak wrote: »
    I imagine that Jeep (the only brand chrysler had that isn't awful) will get bought and will be the only survivor.

    I would point out that Jeeps are prone to breaking down as you drive them off the goddamned car lot, except I would probably be assaulted by people telling me that Jeeps are tiny gods and how I dare I slander their good name.

    They're good if you need to go 4-wheeling, sure. Just bring a spare... everything.

    So where the fuck were you in my H/A thread asking about if I should get a Liberty or not? :P

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    fshavlak wrote: »
    I imagine that Jeep (the only brand chrysler had that isn't awful) will get bought and will be the only survivor.

    I would point out that Jeeps are prone to breaking down as you drive them off the goddamned car lot, except I would probably be assaulted by people telling me that Jeeps are tiny gods and how I dare I slander their good name.

    They're good if you need to go 4-wheeling, sure. Just bring a spare... everything.

    So where the fuck were you in my H/A thread asking about if I should get a Liberty or not? :P

    Stranded on the side of the road.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Stranded on the side of the road.

    Some domestic driver beat you up for driving a foreign car? :P

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    japan wrote: »
    Late, but as I understand it they don't sell the same model range in the US as they do in Europe. Mostly because the US has a distinct aversion to small cars.

    I believe, for example, that the smallest car VW sells in the US is a Golf? There are two models smaller than it sold here. Something approximately Golf or Ford Focus sized is what most Europeans will think of if you were to say "family car".

    Americans will never buy a tiny german car ... or will they? (spoiler: vw is bringing the Polo over.)

    Okay, it's a year away and we don't know how much will change between euro-spec polo and ami-spec polo, but still!

    desc on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    It's interesting to note that the current-spec Polo is the same size as an early 90s Golf.

    VW is really bad for size creep, though Ford is pretty much the same. The new Fiesta is bigger than the old Escort (Focus predecessor).

    japan on
  • NatheoNatheo Registered User
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I suppose this is where you call me out for using hyperbole?

    Yeah, I was just kind of being a dick. I know they're practically garbage. My parents have one. My dad and I had to fabricate a piece for driver side power window out of aluminum because it wouldnt stop fucking breaking.

    Natheo on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fshavlakfshavlak Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I never claimed that Jeeps were reliable, just that so many people absolutely adore them that the brand is almost guarunteed to survive Chrysler.

    fshavlak on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    Natheo wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I suppose this is where you call me out for using hyperbole?

    Yeah, I was just kind of being a dick. I know they're practically garbage. My parents have one. My dad and I had to fabricate a piece for driver side power window out of aluminum because it wouldnt stop fucking breaking.

    Oh.

    Umm.

    Then I retract all the snark I sort of vomited at you up there.

    And yeah, total shit. My friends all thought my Wrangler was totally awesome, because they never had to deal with it breaking down. Like the time the driveshaft fell off while I was doing 60 down the freeway. Good times.

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    I was once passed by my rear wheel while I was tootling down I-10 in my Grand Am. It was quite an event.

    GungHo on
    "Adios, mofo" -- TX Gov Rick Perry (R)
  • NailbunnyPDNailbunnyPD Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    I was once passed by my rear wheel while I was tootling down I-10 in my Grand Am. It was quite an event.

    I once saw someone's rear wheel fly off when they were simply making a left turn at a traffic light. It was bittersweet. You feel bad for that driver dealing with that, but when do you ever see a wheel spontaneously fly off a car?

    NailbunnyPD on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2009
    I was once in rush-hour traffic going maybe 5 mph. Several cars ahead of me, a car on our side of the freeway flew several feet into the air and landed upside down. To this day, I have no fucking clue how that is even possible. It's like God looked down at US-101 one day, and said, "You know what? Fuck the second law of thermodynamics."

    ElJeffe on
    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I was once in rush-hour traffic going maybe 5 mph. Several cars ahead of me, a car on our side of the freeway flew several feet into the air and landed upside down. To this day, I have no fucking clue how that is even possible. It's like God looked down at US-101 one day, and said, "You know what? Fuck the second law of thermodynamics."

    Swamp Gas.

    FyreWulff on
  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited April 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I was once in rush-hour traffic going maybe 5 mph. Several cars ahead of me, a car on our side of the freeway flew several feet into the air and landed upside down. To this day, I have no fucking clue how that is even possible. It's like God looked down at US-101 one day, and said, "You know what? Fuck the second law of thermodynamics."

    Swamp Gas.

    Trapped inside a weather balloon?

    WAIT A MINUTE! What color car was it?

    1ddqd on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Marlor wrote: »
    Chrysler is bankrupt.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN3036863020090430

    The talks have apparently broken down, despite the Treasury increasing their offer, and Chrysler is headed to bankruptcy court.

    Escaping that fate was always a long shot... but it's pretty much confirmed that the talks have now failed.



    Hrm, I don't really understand the logic of turning down 2.5 billion dollars in favor of nothing, given that any bankruptcy settlement is going to be dictated by fiat (no pun intended) from the President of the United States himself.


    There are some that think that AIG would pay out default swaps on the debt, but I'd assume if they did the next step would be a note from the treasury to whatever banks got the payments demanding X amount of TARP money back immediately for however much they paid out.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    desc wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Late, but as I understand it they don't sell the same model range in the US as they do in Europe. Mostly because the US has a distinct aversion to small cars.

    I believe, for example, that the smallest car VW sells in the US is a Golf? There are two models smaller than it sold here. Something approximately Golf or Ford Focus sized is what most Europeans will think of if you were to say "family car".

    Americans will never buy a tiny german car ... or will they? (spoiler: vw is bringing the Polo over.)

    Okay, it's a year away and we don't know how much will change between euro-spec polo and ami-spec polo, but still!



    Why wouldn't people buy small German cars? I see Minis and Smarts all over the place now.

    Also in addition to bankruptcy Chrysler also announced today that they were bringing over the Fiat 500 and that it should be in dealerships by the end of next year.


    Edit: Also bankruptcy press release:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/30/obama-announces-chrysler-bankruptcy-consummated-deal-with-fiat/


    Interesting is this part:
    When the transaction is completed, the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) will own 55 percent of the new company and the U.S. and Canadian governments will own proportionate shares of a 10 percent stake. Fiat will initially hold a 20 percent ownership stake in Chrysler. Fiat will have the right to increase its ownership stake an additional 15 percent in three increments as it meets the following criteria: 5 percent for bringing a 40 mpg vehicle platform to Chrysler to be produced in the U.S.; 5 percent for providing a fuel-efficient engine family to be produced in the U.S. for use in Chrysler vehicles; and 5 percent for providing Chrysler access to its vast global distribution network to facilitate the export of Chrysler vehicles. Fiat cannot become a majority owner until after all U.S. government loans have been completely repaid.

    This would explain the 500 announcement, as it would pretty much fulfill conditions 1 and 2 immediately.


    Word is right now from viability plan leaks that the plan is essentially as follows:

    1. Bring the 500 and one other unnamed Fiat compact over immediately, to be sold at Chrysler dealerships ASAP.
    2. Bring the Panda over as a jeep product with a new look fitting the brand.
    3. Come up with a new midsize platform in the next 3 to 4 years, possibly based on the 200 concept (basically a shrunk down 300/Charger, RWD etc) to be sold globally. Fiat's current offerings in this area are actually based off of leased GM designs, which probably aren't an option going forward.
    4. Export a version of the 300/Charger for the European market.


    Fiat 500
    fiat_500.jpg



    Fiat Panda
    fiat-panda-diesel.jpg

    Jealous Deva on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Bring the Panda over as a jeep product with a new look fitting the brand.

    I'm not sure I'm following you here. Why badge the Panda as a Jeep? It's the polar opposite of what the brand is known for.

    japan on
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