GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited April 2009
This is cool. I'm not really a fan of casual drug use and I don't see legalization as the answer (at least, not yet), but on the other hand we have wasted so much time and money and ruined so many lives because we wanted to appear tough on drug crime. Many of these people were not dangers to others and belonged rehab instead of prison, and as a result they've been pegged with felonies that bar them from any kind of personal success in society.
Mexico is doing a good thing, and the US should watch closely to see how it pans out.
I can't see how this will impact the cartels in any meaningful way. Legalization, in general, won't get rid of the black market unless private industry can drive the price down through mass production while simultaneously the penalties for operating in the black market become more severe. Making consumption legal is only going to decrease the number of users in jail. I'm fine with that, but it arguably exacerbates the problem with the cartels.
Indeed, actually what is trying to be fought with this law is "narcomenudeo" which would be literally translated to "small scale drugdealing", like, that guy at the street corner selling a pill, a small bag of marihuana or cocaine, etc. So when they get arrested, they can't use the "I'm a drug addict" excuse and be released, something that frequently happened with the old law because the amounts for consumption were larger.
Like I previously said, it's stupid to allow consumption but keep every other activity related to it illegal, people have to get drugs from someplace, it can't just appear from thin air, so they have to commit federal crimes in order to do a legal activity. That's why I'm paying attention to the initiative from the Social Democratic Party at Mexico City, which are promoting a law, which would allow people to grow their own marihuana at home for personal use.
I don't think it will be approved, but if it's going to be approved someplace in México, it will be at Mexico City.
So they reduced the amount to 5 grams, which seriously, using a scale, isn't a bit more or less the amount of a common marihuana cigarrete, and with the NEW law, if someone has 5.1 grams, he won't be able to use the benefits the system offers, which are a good thing (Rehab, not going directly to prison, etc), but with such small amount, why even bother.
5 grams is one big-ass "marihuana cigarrete"
Yeah, back when I was a smoker you could easily make at least two joints out of a gram... 5 grams will almost make you a blunt...
Yeah, I read that and immediately thought of Cheech and Chong's "Let's Make A Dope Deal" sketch.
For fifty keys, how many joints are in a lid? Two. Two? Yeah, I roll big joints.
*ding ding ding* Our judges say that's okay, they roll big joints too!
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
So according to the graph on the article's page, the cutoff is now 5 grams of pot, 2 grams opium, 50mg heroin, .5 grams cocaine, LSD 1500 nanograms (about ten doses), 40 mg of methamphetamine and MDA (I assume they mean ecstasy, MDMA) or 200mg in tablet form.
So according to the graph on the article's page, the cutoff is now 5 grams of pot, 2 grams opium, 50mg heroin, .5 grams cocaine, LSD 1500 nanograms (about ten doses), 40 mg of methamphetamine and MDA (I assume they mean ecstasy, MDMA) or 200mg in tablet form.
While according to the old law's doses table the amounts were:
Marihuana up to 250 grams.
Hashish up to 5 grams.
Heroin up to 1 gram.
Cocaine chlorohydrate up to 25 grams.
Cocaine sulfate up to 250 miligrams.
LSD up to 50 miligrams
Metamphetamine or Metamphetamine Chlorohydrate up to 1.5 grams
I can't find opium on the table, then again, the table lists a bunch of other substances I ignore, so maybe opium is composed of some of them.
Well, it's 10 doses. People usually take 1-3 doses (I guess some do more, but my friends and I haven't), and with acid you're not gonna be dosing everyday or even close to it. A 10-strip seems a pretty good place to set the bar if you're gonna pass a law like this, since it's a logical amount to buy if you want to trip with a couple of friends once or twice (or a handful of times yourself).
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Much more than someone would need for personal consumption. For reference, think about how much you need to drink to get drunk. Maybe six shots? If so, then imagine carrying five to ten times that and calling it personal consumption.
edit: After some more consideration, it's hard to say. Since LSD is not purchased from legit chemical suppliers with an accurate dosage in micrograms, it is not uncommon for someone to eat several unit doses of one batch for an effect comparable to one unit dose from another batch. Erowid says an average dose is 150 micrograms, and that's really all I have to go by.
Much more than someone would need for personal consumption. For reference, think about how much you need to drink to get drunk. Maybe six shots? If so, then imagine carrying five to ten times that and calling it personal consumption.
Except imagine you could accidentally lose it in your wallet.
If you define it as "the amount one person needs to trip five to ten times depending how much they use", it's about equivalent to an eighth of weed, which is a reasonable (and typical) amount for a person to keep for personal consumption.
Much more than someone would need for personal consumption. For reference, think about how much you need to drink to get drunk. Maybe six shots? If so, then imagine carrying five to ten times that and calling it personal consumption.
edit: After some more consideration, it's hard to say. Since LSD is not purchased from legit chemical suppliers with an accurate dosage in micrograms, it is not uncommon for someone to eat several unit doses of one batch for an effect comparable to one unit dose from another batch. Erowid says an average dose is 150 micrograms, and that's really all I have to go by.
Yeah, exactly. A "dose" could be anything. On top of that, a lot of other shit gets sold as "acid." I doubt that most of the current generation of casual drug users would consider 150 mcg a single dose.
BTW, in the US, federal criminal penalties for LSD are based on weight including any carrier media so 500 micrograms of LSD carried in 1 kg of water is going to be prosecuted as 1 kg of LSD.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
So they reduced the amount to 5 grams, which seriously, using a scale, isn't a bit more or less the amount of a common marihuana cigarrete, and with the NEW law, if someone has 5.1 grams, he won't be able to use the benefits the system offers, which are a good thing (Rehab, not going directly to prison, etc), but with such small amount, why even bother.
5 grams is one big-ass "marihuana cigarrete"
Yeah, back when I was a smoker you could easily make at least two joints out of a gram... 5 grams will almost make you a blunt...
Yeah, I read that and immediately thought of Cheech and Chong's "Let's Make A Dope Deal" sketch.
For fifty keys, how many joints are in a lid? Two. Two? Yeah, I roll big joints.
*ding ding ding* Our judges say that's okay, they roll big joints too!
This whole conversation is so facepalm-worthy.
You guys realize that an eighth of an ounce is 3.5 grams, right?
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
This won't do anything to fight the cartels, only make them more money.
This does I suppose, make it so the average jose won't keep getting busted for minor possession. So the police might get a somewhat easier time when it comes to non-violent offenders.
Only real legalization will end the cartels though.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
This is not (hopefully) intended to be a direct strike on the cartels by way of reducing demand. This will have the primary effect of redirecting police efforts to drug sellers.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
Much more than someone would need for personal consumption. For reference, think about how much you need to drink to get drunk. Maybe six shots? If so, then imagine carrying five to ten times that and calling it personal consumption.
edit: After some more consideration, it's hard to say. Since LSD is not purchased from legit chemical suppliers with an accurate dosage in micrograms, it is not uncommon for someone to eat several unit doses of one batch for an effect comparable to one unit dose from another batch. Erowid says an average dose is 150 micrograms, and that's really all I have to go by.
Yeah, exactly. A "dose" could be anything. On top of that, a lot of other shit gets sold as "acid." I doubt that most of the current generation of casual drug users would consider 150 mcg a single dose.
BTW, in the US, federal criminal penalties for LSD are based on weight including any carrier media so 500 micrograms of LSD carried in 1 kg of water is going to be prosecuted as 1 kg of LSD.
If it's in blotter or something they'll use unit doses, but I've heard similar stories of people getting charged with ludicrous things because of a batch of brownies that had a quarter ounce of pot in it.
Huh, I didn't know that they counted the medium when determining sentences for acid. That's kind of fucked up.
As to other shit getting sold as acid, the one time I bought "acid," I did some research after using it and learned that it was actually DOI or one of its analogues. I don't know how often this happens (I'd wager most acid is actually LSD), but it still bothers me.
This won't do anything to fight the cartels, only make them more money.
This does I suppose, make it so the average jose won't keep getting busted for minor possession. So the police might get a somewhat easier time when it comes to non-violent offenders.
Only real legalization will end the cartels though.
The problem is, that now any small difference regarding the amount of drug you have on you when you get arrested, will determine if you are a drug addict or a drug dealer.
This is not (hopefully) intended to be a direct strike on the cartels by way of reducing demand. This will have the primary effect of redirecting police efforts to drug sellers.
Yes, it's actually aimed at helping fight drug selling on a small scale.
Posts
Mexico is doing a good thing, and the US should watch closely to see how it pans out.
Indeed, actually what is trying to be fought with this law is "narcomenudeo" which would be literally translated to "small scale drugdealing", like, that guy at the street corner selling a pill, a small bag of marihuana or cocaine, etc. So when they get arrested, they can't use the "I'm a drug addict" excuse and be released, something that frequently happened with the old law because the amounts for consumption were larger.
Like I previously said, it's stupid to allow consumption but keep every other activity related to it illegal, people have to get drugs from someplace, it can't just appear from thin air, so they have to commit federal crimes in order to do a legal activity. That's why I'm paying attention to the initiative from the Social Democratic Party at Mexico City, which are promoting a law, which would allow people to grow their own marihuana at home for personal use.
I don't think it will be approved, but if it's going to be approved someplace in México, it will be at Mexico City.
Yeah, I read that and immediately thought of Cheech and Chong's "Let's Make A Dope Deal" sketch.
For fifty keys, how many joints are in a lid?
Two.
Two?
Yeah, I roll big joints.
*ding ding ding* Our judges say that's okay, they roll big joints too!
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Every time I see it spelled like that, I can't help but think of this:
While according to the old law's doses table the amounts were:
Marihuana up to 250 grams.
Hashish up to 5 grams.
Heroin up to 1 gram.
Cocaine chlorohydrate up to 25 grams.
Cocaine sulfate up to 250 miligrams.
LSD up to 50 miligrams
Metamphetamine or Metamphetamine Chlorohydrate up to 1.5 grams
I can't find opium on the table, then again, the table lists a bunch of other substances I ignore, so maybe opium is composed of some of them.
Much more than someone would need for personal consumption. For reference, think about how much you need to drink to get drunk. Maybe six shots? If so, then imagine carrying five to ten times that and calling it personal consumption.
edit: After some more consideration, it's hard to say. Since LSD is not purchased from legit chemical suppliers with an accurate dosage in micrograms, it is not uncommon for someone to eat several unit doses of one batch for an effect comparable to one unit dose from another batch. Erowid says an average dose is 150 micrograms, and that's really all I have to go by.
Except imagine you could accidentally lose it in your wallet.
If you define it as "the amount one person needs to trip five to ten times depending how much they use", it's about equivalent to an eighth of weed, which is a reasonable (and typical) amount for a person to keep for personal consumption.
Yeah, exactly. A "dose" could be anything. On top of that, a lot of other shit gets sold as "acid." I doubt that most of the current generation of casual drug users would consider 150 mcg a single dose.
BTW, in the US, federal criminal penalties for LSD are based on weight including any carrier media so 500 micrograms of LSD carried in 1 kg of water is going to be prosecuted as 1 kg of LSD.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This whole conversation is so facepalm-worthy.
You guys realize that an eighth of an ounce is 3.5 grams, right?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This does I suppose, make it so the average jose won't keep getting busted for minor possession. So the police might get a somewhat easier time when it comes to non-violent offenders.
Only real legalization will end the cartels though.
If it's in blotter or something they'll use unit doses, but I've heard similar stories of people getting charged with ludicrous things because of a batch of brownies that had a quarter ounce of pot in it.
As to other shit getting sold as acid, the one time I bought "acid," I did some research after using it and learned that it was actually DOI or one of its analogues. I don't know how often this happens (I'd wager most acid is actually LSD), but it still bothers me.
Possession or consumption of drugs isn't a crime in México, if you get arrested with more than the amount allowed according to law, you get prosecuted for charges of posssession with the intent of selling or transporting with the intent of selling, I know it doesn't seems like there is a big difference, but there is.
The problem is, that now any small difference regarding the amount of drug you have on you when you get arrested, will determine if you are a drug addict or a drug dealer.
Which I find pretty stupid.
Yes, it's actually aimed at helping fight drug selling on a small scale.
Federally. I don't know about state laws.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.