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Alberta gov't to make evolution classes optional under proposed law.

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Posts

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    New rule. When another province makes Nova Scotia look socially progressive by comparison, they're doing it wrong.

    TubularLuggage on
  • DeciusDecius regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    New rule. When another province makes Alberta look socially progressive by comparison, they're doing it wrong.

    I'm sorry, it's still remarkably hard to trump anything Alberta does. We're like that guy in the Guiness Book of Records who keeps beating his own record for doing what should have effectively killed him years ago.

    Decius on
    camo_sig2.png
    I never finish anyth
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    You know, I kinda feel sad. I was hoping this unique brand of North American silliness was strictly a US patented thing. :(

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • DeciusDecius regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    It kinda warms the heart to know that no matter our differences in the way we speak, what we believe, what we look like, and what our traditions are, that stupidity and ignorance knows no racial, cultural, or gender barriers.

    Decius on
    camo_sig2.png
    I never finish anyth
  • GogoKodoGogoKodo regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Kind of off topic but...
    Frank Bruseker, the head of the Alberta Teachers' Association.

    That was my science teacher in Junior High school. He was an alright teacher. He made a huge fireball once, but was nice enough to ask the front row to move back before doing so. I recall it singing the ceiling a little bit. The only other thing I remember about him was he got really really frustrated at one class (not mine) and had to go sit in his car for a few periods to cool off.

    On topic...
    Come on Alberta, seriously now, get with the program.

    GogoKodo on
  • GaddezGaddez regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    See, Alberta? This is why you can't have nice things.

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • SunstrandSunstrand regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I' kind of shocked at the bullshit being spouted in this thread. The bill gives parents the right to pull their children out of class when the subject doesn't mesh with their beliefs . Where is the big fucking problem here? Most schools let parents do this anyway.

    Where do you people get the right to decide which beliefs are right and wrong? That's what this mounts to. As an atheist if I don't want my child learning about creationism shouldn't I have the right to protect them from that? Or if I were a Jehovah's witness, shouldn't I be able to protect my child from discussions that are counter faith? It works both ways people.

    I personally think it would be retarded to hold back any knowledge from someone who is learning about the world, but if we want freedoms and right's we need to respect other peoples freedoms as well.

    This bullshit about how bad Alberta is is fucking retarded as well, painting any region in Canada with broad strokes sickens me. It's like the assholes who believe everybody in the maritimes is on pogey, or how B.C are just a bunch of hippies.

    If you guys don't like here, it don't live here, or get voted into office so you can change it.

    Sunstrand on
    BorderlandsClaptraps.jpg
  • monikermoniker regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sunstrand wrote: »
    I' kind of shocked at the bullshit being spouted in this thread. The bill gives parents the right to pull their children out of class when the subject doesn't mesh with their beliefs . Where is the big fucking problem here? Most schools let parents do this anyway.

    Where do you people get the right to decide which beliefs are right and wrong? That's what this mounts to. As an atheist if I don't want my child learning about creationism shouldn't I have the right to protect them from that? Or if I were a Jehovah's witness, shouldn't I be able to protect my child from discussions that are counter faith? It works both ways people.

    I personally think it would be retarded to hold back any knowledge from someone who is learning about the world, but if we want freedoms and right's we need to respect other peoples freedoms as well.

    This bullshit about how bad Alberta is is fucking retarded as well, painting any region in Canada with broad strokes sickens me. It's like the assholes who believe everybody in the maritimes is on pogey, or how B.C are just a bunch of hippies.

    If you guys don't like here, it don't live here, or get voted into office so you can change it.

    Science isn't a belief...it's science.

    moniker on
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sunstrand wrote: »
    I' kind of shocked at the bullshit being spouted in this thread. The bill gives parents the right to pull their children out of class when the subject doesn't mesh with their beliefs . Where is the big fucking problem here? Most schools let parents do this anyway.

    Where do you people get the right to decide which beliefs are right and wrong? That's what this mounts to. As an atheist if I don't want my child learning about creationism shouldn't I have the right to protect them from that? Or if I were a Jehovah's witness, shouldn't I be able to protect my child from discussions that are counter faith? It works both ways people.

    I personally think it would be retarded to hold back any knowledge from someone who is learning about the world, but if we want freedoms and right's we need to respect other peoples freedoms as well.

    This bullshit about how bad Alberta is is fucking retarded as well, painting any region in Canada with broad strokes sickens me. It's like the assholes who believe everybody in the maritimes is on pogey, or how B.C are just a bunch of hippies.

    If you guys don't like here, it don't live here, or get voted into office so you can change it.

    :lol:

    Dude you are SO....American. :P

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • SunstrandSunstrand regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    moniker wrote: »
    Sunstrand wrote: »
    I' kind of shocked at the bullshit being spouted in this thread. The bill gives parents the right to pull their children out of class when the subject doesn't mesh with their beliefs . Where is the big fucking problem here? Most schools let parents do this anyway.

    Where do you people get the right to decide which beliefs are right and wrong? That's what this mounts to. As an atheist if I don't want my child learning about creationism shouldn't I have the right to protect them from that? Or if I were a Jehovah's witness, shouldn't I be able to protect my child from discussions that are counter faith? It works both ways people.

    I personally think it would be retarded to hold back any knowledge from someone who is learning about the world, but if we want freedoms and right's we need to respect other peoples freedoms as well.

    This bullshit about how bad Alberta is is fucking retarded as well, painting any region in Canada with broad strokes sickens me. It's like the assholes who believe everybody in the maritimes is on pogey, or how B.C are just a bunch of hippies.

    If you guys don't like here, it don't live here, or get voted into office so you can change it.

    Science isn't a belief...it's science.

    I know, but some people like to believe God, or Aliens or some shit created us, not science. They want to raise their kids with their beliefs which may be ignorant. I think it sucks and that religions are a joke, but short taking the discussions totally out of schools, which would only hinder students whose parents want them to learn everything they can. This seems like a logical course of action. It's their child, right or wrong it's their choice what they learn and how they learn it. Really it's only wrong for people with countering beliefs.

    The only people that this will effect are the people already pulling their kids from sex-ed and shit, nobody else will care.

    Sunstrand on
    BorderlandsClaptraps.jpg
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Yes allowing ignorant people to continue their ignorance through their children will in no way affect anyone else.

    Hey freedom rocks. But if your beliefs threaten the future of your kids whether it means not letting them hear about evolution or not letting them get treated by doctors then in my opinion that's criminal. No one is forcing evolution down anyone's throats you have all the time in the world after school to brainwash them with nonsense but to deny them basic knowledge is detrimental to the child and the community.

    Oh hey some people that having sex with a child virgin will cure them of AIDS, well we can't tell them any different.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • LindenLinden regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sunstrand wrote: »
    Where do you people get the right to decide which beliefs are right and wrong? That's what this mounts to. As an atheist if I don't want my child learning about creationism shouldn't I have the right to protect them from that? Or if I were a Jehovah's witness, shouldn't I be able to protect my child from discussions that are counter faith? It works both ways people.

    Fuck no. If creationism is part of the core curriculum, then students should be compelled to learn it, for all that it should never be taught. Whether it should be a (component of a) [core] subject or not is the debate that you should be getting into. Language, mathematics, basic science, history, civics... these should be compulsory at some level. Preventing a child from learning is abuse, and I'm sick of this inane pandering to that proportion of society who stifle and destroy the future of this world and declare it some service.

    It's not 'your' damn kid - that child is a member of society, an agent with potential to reshape the entire world, and they belong to themselves. This possessive approach to child-rearing harms not only the young, but all of humanity. You have no right to bar a child from discovery - you may present an argument, but that which they wish to know must be open to them. You may be able to shape a child not to believe in reality, but, unfortunately, reality doesn't care.

    Linden on
    What if this weren't a rhetorical question?
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Linden wrote: »
    It's not 'your' damn kid - that child is a member of society, an agent with potential to reshape the entire world, and they belong to themselves. This possessive approach to child-rearing harms not only the young, but all of humanity. You have no right to bar a child from discovery - you may present an argument, but that which they wish to know must be open to them. You may be able to shape a child not to believe in reality, but, unfortunately, reality doesn't care.
    I'd like to second this. I think it's bullshit that we consider children the property of parents to the extent that they are allowed to shield them from intellectual ideas or knowledge. If you think your worldview is the right one, make a better argument.

    This is what good parents do, like mine and those of many others I know. I don't understand why this is in fact controversial.

    electricitylikesme on
  • NorthGuardNorthGuard Registered User
    edited May 2009
    Not that anyone cares, but I with Sunstrand on this one - there's a lot of overreaction here. Parents have always been able to pull there kids out of sex ed, and the curriculum on the 'origins of humanity' takes less than half an hour of class time in Grade 12 Bio. When my teacher covered it, it was "Some people believe humans were created by a supreme being. Some don't. And that's all the time we're spending on it, we're moving on to DNA...". There's a lot on genetics and heredity, but nothing that even the craziest of young earth creationists would object too. Our Fundies just aren't that fundy.

    IMO, this is a case of the Opposition parties playing to their base, and a distraction from a much bigger issue with the legislation - Stelmach's overriding the recommendations of his own Minister and refusing to reign in the Alberta HRC's abuses of free speech and free press rights.

    NorthGuard on
  • LeitnerLeitner regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Sunstrand wrote: »
    I know, but some people like to believe God, or Aliens or some shit created us, not science. They want to raise their kids with their beliefs which may be ignorant. I think it sucks and that religions are a joke, but short taking the discussions totally out of schools, which would only hinder students whose parents want them to learn everything they can. This seems like a logical course of action. It's their child, right or wrong it's their choice what they learn and how they learn it. Really it's only wrong for people with countering beliefs.

    The only people that this will effect are the people already pulling their kids from sex-ed and shit, nobody else will care.

    See, we really need to stop treating kids like property. The prents shouldn't just be able to do whatever the hell they feel like doing with them. Shit like this is important, it expands the mind and opens them up to knew ideas their redneck parents try to shelter them from.

    Leitner on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    shryke on
  • saint2esaint2e regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    What if you were in a Muslim country and teaching about Allah was part of the curriculum? If you were staunchly against religion and Mohammad's teachings, wouldn't you like to "insulate" your kids from it?

    saint2e on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    What if you were in a Muslim country and teaching about Allah was part of the curriculum? If you were staunchly against religion and Mohammad's teachings, wouldn't you like to "insulate" your kids from it?
    This requires a false analogy of religion to science. Don't do that.

    electricitylikesme on
  • saint2esaint2e regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    What if you were in a Muslim country and teaching about Allah was part of the curriculum? If you were staunchly against religion and Mohammad's teachings, wouldn't you like to "insulate" your kids from it?
    This requires a false analogy of religion to science. Don't do that.

    I don't see how... If something is being taught in school and you don't like it, regardless of whether it's science or religion, my point stands.

    saint2e on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    What if you were in a Muslim country and teaching about Allah was part of the curriculum? If you were staunchly against religion and Mohammad's teachings, wouldn't you like to "insulate" your kids from it?
    This requires a false analogy of religion to science. Don't do that.

    I don't see how... If something is being taught in school and you don't like it, regardless of whether it's science or religion, my point stands.
    No, it doesn't. Because their is literally nothing you can substitute except religion to make your point contentious. Everything else would be, well, within the realm of the observable universe and so you end up telling us about a scenario where the school is teaching outright lies and falsehoods. Which actually is exactly what you're presupposing anyway.

    electricitylikesme on
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    Christian Republic of Canada

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • saint2esaint2e regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Insulating kids from the stuff you don't like is how you end up with the crazy right wing the US is dealing with.

    You let crazy people raise their kids in a bubble, and you get CRAZIER people in the next generation.

    What if you were in a Muslim country and teaching about Allah was part of the curriculum? If you were staunchly against religion and Mohammad's teachings, wouldn't you like to "insulate" your kids from it?
    This requires a false analogy of religion to science. Don't do that.

    I don't see how... If something is being taught in school and you don't like it, regardless of whether it's science or religion, my point stands.
    No, it doesn't. Because their is literally nothing you can substitute except religion to make your point contentious. Everything else would be, well, within the realm of the observable universe and so you end up telling us about a scenario where the school is teaching outright lies and falsehoods. Which actually is exactly what you're presupposing anyway.

    Well, that's your opinion, I suppose. And that goes along with the majority of people who live in North America. However, you're getting too hung up on the fact that what you believe, for the most part, jives with what is being taught in school (I assume).

    Remove yourself from that situation and place yourself in another culture where perhaps the standard beliefs differ from your own. Now you've got the exact same situation, only reversed.

    saint2e on
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  • FireflashFireflash regular Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    No, it's not the same at all.
    Religion : Don't ask questions, just believe what WE tell you to be true.
    Science : Seek the truth, ask questions, have facts to back up your claim.

    There's a big difference between preventing your children from learning how to be a sheep and preventing your kid from learning how to think for himself.

    Fireflash on
    PSN: PatParadize
    Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
  • saint2esaint2e regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Fireflash wrote: »
    No, it's not the same at all.
    Religion : Don't ask questions, just believe what WE tell you to be true.
    Science : Seek the truth, ask questions, have facts to back up your claim.

    There's a big difference between preventing your children from learning how to be a sheep and preventing your kid from learning how to think for himself.

    Again, that's opinion speaking.

    I'll dumb it down for you guys, since the mere mention of religion causes you to turn your brains off (which is strangely ironic):

    You have a kid that goes to a certain school. Certain school is going to teach something (I'm not going to say what) in their curriculum that you are vehemently against. Should you have the right to decide to exclude your child from that class/lesson?

    saint2e on
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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2009
    saint2e wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    No, it's not the same at all.
    Religion : Don't ask questions, just believe what WE tell you to be true.
    Science : Seek the truth, ask questions, have facts to back up your claim.

    There's a big difference between preventing your children from learning how to be a sheep and preventing your kid from learning how to think for himself.

    Again, that's opinion speaking.

    I'll dumb it down for you guys, since the mere mention of religion causes you to turn your brains off (which is strangely ironic):

    You have a kid that goes to a certain school. Certain school is going to teach something (I'm not going to say what) in their curriculum that you are vehemently against. Should you have the right to decide to exclude your child from that class/lesson?

    No. There should be a standardised education that everyone is required to complete. No individual choice of content, there's no other way to handle a massive system of schools. If that standardized system exclusively teaches religion instead of evolution then your society has degraded to the point where you have become Iran, congrats.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • EndomaticEndomatic Registered User
    edited May 2009
    No, you shouldn't, not if your belief is unsubstantiated.

    Honk said it best.

    I hate this province.
    The people are ignorant of the world around them more than enough as it is.

    Endomatic on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    So it's the public school's job to teach our kids about sex? If I prefer to do that myself without some stranger teaching them God-knows-what I'm wrong?

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    If your beliefs are so tenuous that they can be washed away by the public school system, they probably weren't that valid anyway.

    Rhesus Positive on
  • StarcrossStarcross regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    So it's the public school's job to teach our kids about sex? If I prefer to do that myself without some stranger teaching them God-knows-what I'm wrong?

    It should be the public school's job to teach kids about sex. Sex education is very important and is something that all kids really need to know.

    Starcross on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Or maybe i'm a responsible parent who doesn't want my kids learning about sex from a stranger. I know that doesn't mesh with your "ALL DATA IS GOOD" idea but I as a parent get to decide for my kids and you don't.

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Starcross wrote: »
    So it's the public school's job to teach our kids about sex? If I prefer to do that myself without some stranger teaching them God-knows-what I'm wrong?

    It should be the public school's job to teach kids about sex. Sex education is very important and is something that all kids really need to know.

    I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert. You can rage all you want about how we should expose children to every different view no matter how controversial but the simple fact is that if you don't teach your own kids about sex, you don't know who is teaching them.

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • BamaBama regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Or maybe i'm a responsible parent who doesn't want my kids learning about sex from a stranger. I know that doesn't mesh with your "ALL DATA IS GOOD" idea but I as a parent get to decide for my kids and you don't.
    Then tell them about it beforehand. I mean, if you care about your child so much, surely you know when they're going to start sex education in school.

    By the way, your kid is going to learn a whole lot of shit from strangers. What's special about sex? Should kids learn about personal hygiene from strangers?

    Teach your kids to deal with other people and other ideas, don't isolate them from each other.
    Quid wrote: »
    I'd like to point out that this is exactly what Texas doesn't have. Though unfortunately concessions were still made.

    What I'm saying is make fun of Alabama.
    God damn it, Quid.

    Bama on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2009
    However, kids also do not want to hear about sex about their parents, their parents can be uncomfortable, nd for whatever reason, they might miss something important.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • BamaBama regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert.
    What if the parent hates sex, doesn't know (much) about it, or is a pervert?

    I know we all had shitty teachers at some point or another, but schools aren't just grabbing homeless people off the street and going "hey, wanna talk to some kids about fuckin'?"

    Bama on
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert.
    What if the parent hates sex, doesn't know (much) about it, or is a pervert?

    I know we all had shitty teachers at some point or another, but schools aren't just grabbing homeless people off the street and going "hey, wanna talk to some kids about fuckin'?"

    It's a quote from Southpark, damnit.

    RonaldoTheGypsy on
  • StarcrossStarcross regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Starcross wrote: »
    So it's the public school's job to teach our kids about sex? If I prefer to do that myself without some stranger teaching them God-knows-what I'm wrong?

    It should be the public school's job to teach kids about sex. Sex education is very important and is something that all kids really need to know.

    I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert. You can rage all you want about how we should expose children to every different view no matter how controversial but the simple fact is that if you don't teach your own kids about sex, you don't know who is teaching them.

    It should be the school's job to teach children about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert. Not all parents are willing or able to give their children proper sex education and it isn't right to leave children's understanding of this extremely fucking important topic up to chance. Also, getting sex ed at school in no way prevents kids from being taught by their parents as well.

    Starcross on
  • saint2esaint2e regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    saint2e wrote: »
    Fireflash wrote: »
    No, it's not the same at all.
    Religion : Don't ask questions, just believe what WE tell you to be true.
    Science : Seek the truth, ask questions, have facts to back up your claim.

    There's a big difference between preventing your children from learning how to be a sheep and preventing your kid from learning how to think for himself.

    Again, that's opinion speaking.

    I'll dumb it down for you guys, since the mere mention of religion causes you to turn your brains off (which is strangely ironic):

    You have a kid that goes to a certain school. Certain school is going to teach something (I'm not going to say what) in their curriculum that you are vehemently against. Should you have the right to decide to exclude your child from that class/lesson?

    No. There should be a standardised education that everyone is required to complete. No individual choice of content, there's no other way to handle a massive system of schools. If that standardized system exclusively teaches religion instead of evolution then your society has degraded to the point where you have become Iran, congrats.

    Which was my original example (Iran or a similar type country), that for some reason was very hard for people to understand. So if something "wrong" (and I use that term vaguely on purpose) is being taught to our kids, we should just look the other way because, hey, it's a standardized curriculum, who am I to argue?

    There's a lot of wishy-washiness in this forum with regards to public education. Apparently it is both perfect and inherently flawed.

    saint2e on
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  • BamaBama regular Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    It's a quote from Southpark, damnit.
    That entire post?

    Bama on
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    edited May 2009
    Bama wrote: »
    It's a quote from Southpark, damnit.
    That entire post?

    I think it's the parent's job to teach their kids about sex in order to ensure they don't learn it from somebody who hates it, somebody who doesn't know about it or a pervert.

    That. Is a Southpark quote.

    From the sex ed episode, at the end, Chef tells them that they need to not let schools teach it.

    RonaldoTheGypsy on
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