Nice work, thor. I take it you didn't really contact people via PM claiming to be a neutral role?
Absolutely not. My PM was to Larry, and it wasn't about being neutral. In fact, all your urgent messages did was to make me more and more suspicious. To the point of believing you were absolutely a rogue.
Smasher, you forgot killing me as one of your (forgivable) mistakes.
I convinced him that there was a conversion mechanic and that we would convert him if he did what I said.
I still don't understand why he went along with it. Even if you were telling the truth, it would have been MUCH easier just to give you and DP up to the other villagers and vote you guys off.
Seriously, PsychoLarry, wtf?
I think it was the fact that Smasher publicly declared his intention to kill Larry that helped us manipulate him so easily.
I also bamboozled him with fake powers and promised him certain victory if he joined us. Plus, since I'd revealed myself to him, I said that if he didn't join I'd just give myself up, and he said he wanted to keep the game interesting. I think that was the main reason.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
Nice work, thor. I take it you didn't really contact people via PM claiming to be a neutral role?
Absolutely not. My PM was to Larry, and it wasn't about being neutral.
Smasher, you forgot killing me as one of your (forgivable) mistakes.
Well, at least one small part of my plan came true: I expected you to get killed, and you did. If you'd managed to avoid that, you'd have had me on the ropes.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
The night you attacked me, I attacked Grimmy. Grimmy was protecting himself.
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
RBB protected himself, if he in fact got attacked.
Nice work, thor. I take it you didn't really contact people via PM claiming to be a neutral role?
Absolutely not. My PM was to Larry, and it wasn't about being neutral.
Smasher, you forgot killing me as one of your (forgivable) mistakes.
Well, at least one small part of my plan came true: I expected you to get killed, and you did.
True, but there was just as good a chance of you being vigilanted the next day.
Except that I was protecting myself, but you couldn't have known that. In fact, if I'd been a rogue your plan would have worked perfectly - wasn't it the very night after that Smasher targeted me? Or was it the round after that?
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
My biggest real mistake was not anticipating a fourth faction. This was probably due to the small size of the game. I should have realized something was up with the money in DP and RBB's PMs though; I dropped the ball on that one.
That mistake led me to disbelieve that the rogues would get a guardian AND a seer, or potentially either. That assumption (which I was aware of, but you have to make some assumptions in order to come to any conclusions in a game with imperfect imformation) led me astray.
Ah, nothing like the taste of victory. Many thanks, ArrBeeBee, I truly couldn't have done it without you. Your services were invaluable.
Thanks also to you, Smasher, for buying my cover story. I actually came up with it before ArrBeeBee contacted me, but we were able to put everything into place quite quickly to make sure you believed me until it was too late.
Finally, thank you, Larry, for being ever so trusting.
No thanks to you, AcidSerra, for getting yourself killed on the first night like that. Sloppy, sloppy. :P
I'd like to point out that I (well, and AcidSerra on the first night) was the only rogue to ever assassinate anyone. The other faction failed their attempts (or didn't make any) every time they had a chance.
If anyone is interested, I can post partial transcriptions of some of my PM conversations with people during the final days. (I've deleted quite a few non-necessary ones to keep my PM box from overflowing.)
Heh, I would like to point out that while we didn't -kill- anyone, we outted Smasher as the Vigilante. If I hadn't been assassinated, I had figured out Smasher's role, figured RBB was a bodyguard of somesort, and had my suspicions of Larry. (He was a villager, but was working with the other rogues as well.)
Squash was a little crazy at the end, but I was smart to have voted for him on day one before anyone else. It helped reduce any suspicion of me (to the villagers) and boosted my self-confidence.
I wanna ask Primus if I was killed because I seemed to just be a smart and vocal villager, or you did think something was up with me.
Smasher, did you get that PM I sent you on the last round? I didn't want you to think you'd totally lost when there was still a 1/3 chance of your victory.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Oh, I didn't actually read over your PM. I didn't expect there to be something so different as a baddie who could protect.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
The night you attacked me, I attacked Grimmy. Grimmy was protecting himself.
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
RBB protected himself, if he in fact got attacked.
Grimmy was voted out two nights ago; you guys are thinking of three nights ago.
Rogues: why didn't you contact me? I dropped three or four broad hints in the thread ("Got any cash?" "We need more gold" etc) but I didn't hear a word, except from TehSpectre after he was already dead. I ended up working out DP's identity through sheer process of elimination.
I wanna ask Primus if I was killed because I seemed to just be a smart and vocal villager, or you did think something was up with me.
I played the entire game (outside of PMs) completely straight up until I started spinning my lies in Smasher's ear. I simply went through the thread, thought about things, and then posted what I would say if I were a normal ol' villager.
If I didn't have any good ideas, I just went along with the bandwagon.
RBB: I'm extremely paranoid in these sorts of games. I even questioned you in PM at first.
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
The night you attacked me, I attacked Grimmy. Grimmy was protecting himself.
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
RBB protected himself, if he in fact got attacked.
Grimmy was voted out two nights ago; you guys are thinking of three nights ago.
DP only got a kill every other round - he went for Grimmy, then nobody, then you. We voted down Navoc.
It was the night after that one that I was supposed to be protecting Navoc. The night on which I died.
Good game, all. Didn't see it coming until it was way too late.
Although I figured that Larry was just a rogue who'd infiltrated us, not a villager who actively tried to screw over the village. I mean, Jesus H. Christ. If you're a villager and you're in touch with both the seer and the guardian, and someone approaches you trying to subvert you -- you're supposed to just relay that along to the Vig/Guardian, aren't you?
Seriously.
That said, the rogues (and mercenary, of course) played very well after what can only be described as an inauspicious start for them.
Good fun, this game.
P.S. -> 6 rogues in a 17 person game (counting RBB who may as well have been one)? Including one who was a guardian and a seer? Ouch?
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
Smasher, did you get that PM I sent you on the last round? I didn't want you to think you'd totally lost when there was still a 1/3 chance of your victory.
Yeah I did. I figured there was a good chance you were just BSing me and were trying to get me to target someone in particular, but that PM and Larry's response to a pm i sent him a bit earlier led me to take a stab (ha) and try to kill you. :shrug: another coin flip, though this one was my fault.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Yeah, it's supposed to be more like 1/4th, not more than 1/3rd. And the extra abilities the rogues had made it even less balanced.
P.S. -> 6 rogues in a 17 person game (counting RBB who may as well have been one)? Including one who was a guardian and a seer? Ouch?
It ended up being pretty balanced, though maybe through bad luck on our parts. If it weren't for Larry, both the rogues and I would have lost.
Most of these games are overbalanced towards the villagers, anyway.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
It was only balanced because of Squashua and AcidSierra. 4 rogues in a group of 14 is much, much closer to the 25% balance than 6 in 17.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
Is anything incorrect about how the last two nights went down?:
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
The night you attacked me, I attacked Grimmy. Grimmy was protecting himself.
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
RBB protected himself, if he in fact got attacked.
Grimmy was voted out two nights ago; you guys are thinking of three nights ago.
DP only got a kill every other round - he went for Grimmy, then nobody, then you. We voted down Navoc.
That's right, the other faction was dead by that point. That'd explain it.
VISIBLEHOWL, SEEING THE NARRATION FOR THAT DAY WOULD HAVE BEEN TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL!
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Smasher, you still haven't apologized for killing me.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Seriously, you said
Guess that won't work then. Alright, I hope he's legit.
And I'm supposed to know you trust him implicitly?
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
I apologize for killing you, though I stand by my reasoning. I don't think we ever really would have trusted you after that, even if you'd explained what was going on. Handing us RBB would have helped though, I admit.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
Guess that won't work then. Alright, I hope he's legit.
And I'm supposed to know you trust him implicitly?
Keep in mind we thought you were trying to kill us. We figured you would be targeting me because you would think we didn't trust each other, and so you could know I would be unprotected. If we'd let you know we did trust each other, that would have changed and blocking the kill would have been much harder.
That, and if all this HAD come out, there's a fair chance I wouldn't have been protected that night and would have died.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
I guess I was more angry that you assumed I was working against you. But you were lying to me about how much you trusted Grimmy, which made me useless in the first place.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
I guess I was more angry that you assumed I was working against you. But you were lying to me about how much you trusted Grimmy, which made me useless in the first place.
Well, you'd lied about being the seer (and the vigilante too, if larry wasn't BSing about that part), so it didn't seem unreasonable that you were indeed working against us. If you'd told us the truth about being a villager, we would have been suspicious but much less inclined to kill you.
Sorry Thorgot, for my part in that. I just thought that you'd changed your story one too many times to be trustworthy. Between that and the fact that a) Smasher was claiming to be our vig, b) I knew that I was the guardian, and c) our seer had been killed, it didn't seem wise to let you live.
Your story was changing, and you didn't seem to have a role that made sense to me, and then it looked like you were telling Smasher to target me while I protected you (or something -- I've long since erased the PMs, I'm afraid) and I just felt like we'd been infiltrated.
It was obviously the wrong call, but I hope you understand why we made it.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited March 2007
Which BS was that again? There's been so much I'm starting to lose track.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
I guess I was more angry that you assumed I was working against you. But you were lying to me about how much you trusted Grimmy, which made me useless in the first place.
Well, you'd lied about being the seer (and the vigilante too, if larry wasn't BSing about that part), so it didn't seem unreasonable that you were indeed working against us. If you'd told us the truth about being a villager, we would have been suspicious but much less inclined to kill you.
The important part is that I wouldn't have been so bold if I had been a rogue. Maybe if I had been a thrall of some sort, but a rogue would have too much to lose.
How well did all that bullshit I spouted just prior to seducing Larry actually work, Smasher?
When did that actually happen, RBB? Was he working against us for long?
P.S. I remember telling Smasher on day one that if he turned out to be the genuine Vigilante, then Larry deserved the MVP for getting us in touch so early. You know what, Larry? Prize revoked! :P
Well it's good to see DP played this out allright without me. To be honest I had a blast so I'm not particularly broken up over having died the first day. Besides, I'm willing to bet that not having the seer, Lord Cecil Eaglelaser, was a pretty big factor in DPs win.
Anyway, I figured there were probably just 3 in the other rogue group. 4 or 5 would have been terrifically unbalanced.
Sorry Thorgot, for my part in that. I just thought that you'd changed your story one too many times to be trustworthy. Between that and the fact that a) Smasher was claiming to be our vig, b) I knew that I was the guardian, and c) our seer had been killed, it didn't seem wise to let you live.
Your story was changing, and you didn't seem to have a role that made sense to me, and then it looked like you were telling Smasher to target me while I protected you (or something -- I've long since erased the PMs, I'm afraid) and I just felt like we'd been infiltrated.
It was obviously the wrong call, but I hope you understand why we made it.
I was obviously requesting that you both target me. The narrative would have had me vigilanted and protected. That way everybody would know I was a special of some sort; it would have drawn rogue attention toward me and away from you two.
Having the vigilante target the guardian while the guardian targets someone else is just stupid.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
I guess I was more angry that you assumed I was working against you. But you were lying to me about how much you trusted Grimmy, which made me useless in the first place.
Well, you'd lied about being the seer (and the vigilante too, if larry wasn't BSing about that part), so it didn't seem unreasonable that you were indeed working against us. If you'd told us the truth about being a villager, we would have been suspicious but much less inclined to kill you.
The important part is that I wouldn't have been so bold if I had been a rogue. Maybe if I had been a thrall of some sort, but a rogue would have too much to lose.
You being a thrall was the other big possibility we were considering. I still didn't know if you were really innocent or not until visible posted the villager list just now.
How well did all that bullshit I spouted just prior to seducing Larry actually work, Smasher?
When did that actually happen, RBB? Was he working against us for long?
P.S. I remember telling Smasher on day one that if he turned out to be the genuine Vigilante, then Larry deserved the MVP for getting us in touch so early. You know what, Larry? Prize revoked! :P
That would have been the round before we all voted for you.
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thorgotthere is special providencein the fall of a sparrowRegistered Userregular
I guess I was more angry that you assumed I was working against you. But you were lying to me about how much you trusted Grimmy, which made me useless in the first place.
Well, you'd lied about being the seer (and the vigilante too, if larry wasn't BSing about that part), so it didn't seem unreasonable that you were indeed working against us. If you'd told us the truth about being a villager, we would have been suspicious but much less inclined to kill you.
The important part is that I wouldn't have been so bold if I had been a rogue. Maybe if I had been a thrall of some sort, but a rogue would have too much to lose.
You being a thrall was the other big possibility we were considering. I still didn't know if you were really innocent or not until visible posted the villager list just now.
Yeah, well. What fun is Phalla if you don't have a little intrigue?
I was banking on the fact that you believed (as I fervently hoped) that Cecil was just some sort of necromancer, who could contact the dead with his mystics. Obviously I was wrong on that count.
Also, I think this has been the first game where a tie vote hasn't resulted in both people dying. I think it works much better that way.
Posts
Absolutely not. My PM was to Larry, and it wasn't about being neutral. In fact, all your urgent messages did was to make me more and more suspicious. To the point of believing you were absolutely a rogue.
Smasher, you forgot killing me as one of your (forgivable) mistakes.
I also bamboozled him with fake powers and promised him certain victory if he joined us. Plus, since I'd revealed myself to him, I said that if he didn't join I'd just give myself up, and he said he wanted to keep the game interesting. I think that was the main reason.
Two nights ago:
I attacked DP and Grimmy guarded Navoc
You protected DP and attacked Navoc
Last night:
I attacked RBB
You protected RBB and killed me
Well, at least one small part of my plan came true: I expected you to get killed, and you did. If you'd managed to avoid that, you'd have had me on the ropes.
True, but there was just as good a chance of you being vigilanted the next day.
Also, now you know: ask somebody if he would like to reconsider his claims about his role before offing him.
(PS. I would have said yes.)
I thought DP attacked Grimmy that night.
The night you attacked me, I attacked Grimmy. Grimmy was protecting himself.
RBB protected himself, if he in fact got attacked.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Except that I was protecting myself, but you couldn't have known that. In fact, if I'd been a rogue your plan would have worked perfectly - wasn't it the very night after that Smasher targeted me? Or was it the round after that?
That mistake led me to disbelieve that the rogues would get a guardian AND a seer, or potentially either. That assumption (which I was aware of, but you have to make some assumptions in order to come to any conclusions in a game with imperfect imformation) led me astray.
Heh, I would like to point out that while we didn't -kill- anyone, we outted Smasher as the Vigilante. If I hadn't been assassinated, I had figured out Smasher's role, figured RBB was a bodyguard of somesort, and had my suspicions of Larry. (He was a villager, but was working with the other rogues as well.)
Squash was a little crazy at the end, but I was smart to have voted for him on day one before anyone else. It helped reduce any suspicion of me (to the villagers) and boosted my self-confidence.
I wanna ask Primus if I was killed because I seemed to just be a smart and vocal villager, or you did think something was up with me.
Grimmy was voted out two nights ago; you guys are thinking of three nights ago.
I played the entire game (outside of PMs) completely straight up until I started spinning my lies in Smasher's ear. I simply went through the thread, thought about things, and then posted what I would say if I were a normal ol' villager.
If I didn't have any good ideas, I just went along with the bandwagon.
RBB: I'm extremely paranoid in these sorts of games. I even questioned you in PM at first.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
DP only got a kill every other round - he went for Grimmy, then nobody, then you. We voted down Navoc.
Good game, all. Didn't see it coming until it was way too late.
Although I figured that Larry was just a rogue who'd infiltrated us, not a villager who actively tried to screw over the village. I mean, Jesus H. Christ. If you're a villager and you're in touch with both the seer and the guardian, and someone approaches you trying to subvert you -- you're supposed to just relay that along to the Vig/Guardian, aren't you?
Seriously.
That said, the rogues (and mercenary, of course) played very well after what can only be described as an inauspicious start for them.
Good fun, this game.
P.S. -> 6 rogues in a 17 person game (counting RBB who may as well have been one)? Including one who was a guardian and a seer? Ouch?
Yeah I did. I figured there was a good chance you were just BSing me and were trying to get me to target someone in particular, but that PM and Larry's response to a pm i sent him a bit earlier led me to take a stab (ha) and try to kill you. :shrug: another coin flip, though this one was my fault.
It ended up being pretty balanced, though maybe through bad luck on our parts. If it weren't for Larry, both the rogues and I would have lost.
Most of these games are overbalanced towards the villagers, anyway.
That's right, the other faction was dead by that point. That'd explain it.
VISIBLEHOWL, SEEING THE NARRATION FOR THAT DAY WOULD HAVE BEEN TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL!
Keep in mind we thought you were trying to kill us. We figured you would be targeting me because you would think we didn't trust each other, and so you could know I would be unprotected. If we'd let you know we did trust each other, that would have changed and blocking the kill would have been much harder.
That, and if all this HAD come out, there's a fair chance I wouldn't have been protected that night and would have died.
Well, you'd lied about being the seer (and the vigilante too, if larry wasn't BSing about that part), so it didn't seem unreasonable that you were indeed working against us. If you'd told us the truth about being a villager, we would have been suspicious but much less inclined to kill you.
Your story was changing, and you didn't seem to have a role that made sense to me, and then it looked like you were telling Smasher to target me while I protected you (or something -- I've long since erased the PMs, I'm afraid) and I just felt like we'd been infiltrated.
It was obviously the wrong call, but I hope you understand why we made it.
The important part is that I wouldn't have been so bold if I had been a rogue. Maybe if I had been a thrall of some sort, but a rogue would have too much to lose.
When did that actually happen, RBB? Was he working against us for long?
P.S. I remember telling Smasher on day one that if he turned out to be the genuine Vigilante, then Larry deserved the MVP for getting us in touch so early. You know what, Larry? Prize revoked! :P
Anyway, I figured there were probably just 3 in the other rogue group. 4 or 5 would have been terrifically unbalanced.
P.S.
When's the next one?
Seriously.
I was obviously requesting that you both target me. The narrative would have had me vigilanted and protected. That way everybody would know I was a special of some sort; it would have drawn rogue attention toward me and away from you two.
Having the vigilante target the guardian while the guardian targets someone else is just stupid.
You being a thrall was the other big possibility we were considering. I still didn't know if you were really innocent or not until visible posted the villager list just now.
The stuff about thralls and suchlike that I threw up to save myself.
That would have been the round before we all voted for you.
Yeah, well. What fun is Phalla if you don't have a little intrigue?
I was banking on the fact that you believed (as I fervently hoped) that Cecil was just some sort of necromancer, who could contact the dead with his mystics. Obviously I was wrong on that count.
Also, I think this has been the first game where a tie vote hasn't resulted in both people dying. I think it works much better that way.