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A Song of Ice and Fire - Here Be Spoilers. Book People! Discuss the TV Show Here!

DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
edited March 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is for the Song of Ice and Fire novels.


The thread for the TV show, Game of Thrones, is here: HBO Game of Thrones, No Book Discussion


A Song of Ice and Fire is a series of acclaimed fantasy novels by Hugo and Nebula winning author, and steam boat captain impersonator, George R. R. Martin. Originally planned as a trilogy when Martin first began writing the series in 1991 when the series is complete it will span seven main line novels with three, non-main story line, prequel novellas along with more on the drawing board. The series has been translated into more than 20 languages and the fourth volume reached the top of The New York Times bestseller lists upon its release. Overall, the series has more than 6 million copies in print in the USA and sold more than 7 million worldwide.

The series mainly follows events on the South American sized continent of Westeros. It's a continent which ranges from the frozen North to the desert plagued South. Previously this continent was made up of seven kingdoms but 300 years ago it was conquered and forged into one kingdom by the dragon riding Targaryens. Now the dragons have died out, however and fifteen years ago a young lord named Robert Baratheon and his friend Eddard Stark led a rebellion which smashed the Targaryens to dust and put Robert on the throne. The novels start fifteen years on from this and follows those who seek power, those who want to hold onto their power and the good and evil things people do when following their own ideals.

Also whilst the HBO viewer guide is for the television series it is a much better map than the small ones in the novels and really helped me piece together characters movements around the continent. HBO Viewer Guide
george-r-r-martin-image.jpg

The other books in the series are:
A Game of Thrones:
51PAQCH4ZRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

A Clash of Kings:
51uB90%2BxrSL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

A Storm of Swords (US):
1066558_com_6a00d41421.jpg

A Storm of Swords 1. Steel and Snow (UK):
a-storm-of-swords-steel-and-snow.jpg

A Storm of Swords 2. Blood and Gold (UK):
9780007447855.jpg

A Feast for Crows:
Song+of+Ice+%26+Fire+Crows+Cover+New.jpg

A Dance With Dragons:
dod3.jpg

If you've read the books and want to discuss the tv show feel free to do it in here. Comparisons between the book and TV show are welcome but please watch your spoilers. Whilst we may know that Arya is part robot by the end of book 2 and rides a dinosaur armoured in Valyrian steel into battle people who just started the series do not. Due to HBO's Game of Thrones people are more likely to start reading the books so please watch them tags.

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Posts

  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Shae's characterization in the TV series doesn't match the image of her I had from the books. I think I actually like TV Shae better.

    Hachface on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Pan-world and all but putting the date in European format is a bit of dick move.

    July 12th. Easy and not many more characters.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    No problem. Editing it as I go. How do you custom label the url you're linking? The HBO thread as here and it works but the doesn't work. Thought it'd be like adding who you're quoting but unfortunately not.

    Domhnall on
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  • Alucard6986Alucard6986 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Huh, pretty crazy that Dance is only a month away.

    Alucard6986 on
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  • DarianDarian Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Domhnall wrote: »
    The thread for the television series, Game of Thrones, is here: Game of Thrones - NO BOOK DISCUSSION

    Like that; you had it backwards. [url=http://... ] then the text then [/ url] without the spaces.[/url]

    Darian on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Domhnall wrote: »
    No problem. Editing it as I go. How do you custom label the url you're linking? The HBO thread as here and it works but the doesn't work. Thought it'd be like adding who you're quoting but unfortunately not.
    I didn't think it was intentional or anything but you certainly got me running off to Amazon....

    I will now proactively concede that Europe dates makes way more damn sense than the US ones.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    I actually pictured Shae similar to that, just not with the accent. I forget though, how exactly did Bron get her?

    Fizban140 on
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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Pan-world and all but putting the date in European format is a bit of dick move.

    July 12th. Easy and not many more characters.

    Seriously, I thought that they'd bumped it back to December for a second, which is really not fair, given the history of this series in general and novel in particular.

    Dracomicron on
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  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    I actually pictured Shae similar to that, just not with the accent. I forget though, how exactly did Bron get her?

    I actually haven't gotten there in my re-read and I don't remember how it goes in the books, but the TV Show explanation seemed familiar enough.
    Stole her from another knight/warrior in camp.

    LaOs on
  • GaryOGaryO Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    As someone who only read the books for the first time as the show began (because I was unable to watch the show due to it only being shown on a channel provided by a different company to the one im on) I am loving my mates reaction to epsidoe 9. Partly because of how much its like mine was when I read it and partly because he wants
    the witch who is doing blood magic on Dany to come and bring back Ned. and Seeing whats about to happen to that plotline is going to annoy him so even more. He is literally stunned tha Sean Bean died. Don't wanna start the whole "no main character" argument but seeing how every advert for the show features him as the star it is a massive shock.
    Now i want it to be series 3 so I can see the reaction to the
    Red Wedding

    GaryO on
  • hailthefishhailthefish Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    hailthefish on
  • Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.
    I am more worried that every viewer will have been spoiled by that time. Even with the great mod work going on in these forums, I don't see people surviving 3 years spoiler free. Too many dicks on the internets.

    Mei Hikari on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    Actually I think it is perfect.
    The red wedding you are starting to feel like everything is going to be alright, these damned lannisters are going to get it now. Robb is such a badass, so is great john. All these cool characters that have just been rolling around being bad asses. I really didn't expect anything to happen, even though it felt suspicious I still didn't think it would happen. Its like a double or nothing bet, you continue to gamble that the starks will finally get justice and the red wedding is so much more devastating than ned. Likely what will happen next is that Zombie Joffery comes back kills Bran and Rickon and rapes Arya.
    Mei Hikari wrote: »
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.
    I am more worried that every viewer will have been spoiled by that time. Even with the great mod work going on in these forums, I don't see people surviving 3 years spoiler free. Too many dicks on the internets.

    Even in the other thread people are saying stupid stuff like "Now you know that no main character is safe! hahaha!!" shut the fuck up with that stuff. Don't say stupid shit like that, don't even hint at it.

    Another thing, I think I have a new pet peeve, and it is hearing the term bookie. I am not a fucking bookie, I read the books, I am not affiliated with gambling in any way.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    I have a friend who is deliberately not reading the books because he wants to experience the shows untainted by foreknowledge.

    LaOs on
  • Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    LaOs wrote: »
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    I have a friend who is deliberately not reading the books because he wants to experience the shows untainted by foreknowledge.

    I give him six months before he cracks and you find him smuggling a copy of clash of kings back home.

    Mei Hikari on
  • bikkibikkibobikkibikkibo Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Just starting to reread A Storm of Swords for ADWD prep.

    I've forgotten so many things that happen.

    bikkibikkibo on
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  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    After reading the books I would be pretty dissapointed to read the books after watching the show. The books really do handle everything much better, I think there are a few changes in the show I like but they are just minor things. Mostly the book does a much better job of telling the story.

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Mei Hikari wrote: »
    LaOs wrote: »
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    I have a friend who is deliberately not reading the books because he wants to experience the shows untainted by foreknowledge.

    I give him six months before he cracks and you find him smuggling a copy of clash of kings back home.

    Nope.

    He's repeatedly declined offers of the books from friends.

    Really, though, he's not much of a fiction reader. He is also hella-busy. He drives bus for his day job, but his writing has actually started picking up. He writes comics, has a graphic novel coming out, his fiction novel just got picked up, and one of his two current series has been made into an ongoing series (they were both originally specific-run stories).

    Basically, he's incredibly busy and isn't likely to pick up a series of novels like this to read (especially because he seems to be more visually-inclined and absolutely loves the TV show).

    LaOs on
  • Fizban140Fizban140 Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2011
    LaOs wrote: »
    Mei Hikari wrote: »
    LaOs wrote: »
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    I have a friend who is deliberately not reading the books because he wants to experience the shows untainted by foreknowledge.

    I give him six months before he cracks and you find him smuggling a copy of clash of kings back home.

    Nope.

    He's repeatedly declined offers of the books from friends.

    Really, though, he's not much of a fiction reader. He is also hella-busy. He drives bus for his day job, but his writing has actually started picking up. He writes comics, has a graphic novel coming out, his fiction novel just got picked up, and one of his two current series has been made into an ongoing series (they were both originally specific-run stories).

    Basically, he's incredibly busy and isn't likely to pick up a series of novels like this to read (especially because he seems to be more visually-inclined and absolutely loves the TV show).

    So he sits in a bus all day driving, sounds like he has all the time in the world to listen to audio tapes. Are they not allowed to?

    Fizban140 on
    533570-1.png
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    After episode 9, its safe to say that we won't be getting
    a Tower of Joy flashback. I find this kind of interesting...there was nothing about it. Not even Ned asking Varys to send a letter to Jon. This could mean its all a red herring. It could also mean that it would be difficult to show that without making it blindingly obvious. Or maybe they felt it wouldn't work for TV, with all these hints in the first season, and then nothing else as significant for at least the next 2 seasons.

    Doctor Detroit on
  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Fizban140 wrote: »
    LaOs wrote: »
    Mei Hikari wrote: »
    LaOs wrote: »
    By the time
    season 3
    rolls around, I imagine pretty much everyone will have read the books, or had their innocence and hope crushed long before
    the red wedding.

    I have a friend who is deliberately not reading the books because he wants to experience the shows untainted by foreknowledge.

    I give him six months before he cracks and you find him smuggling a copy of clash of kings back home.

    Nope.

    He's repeatedly declined offers of the books from friends.

    Really, though, he's not much of a fiction reader. He is also hella-busy. He drives bus for his day job, but his writing has actually started picking up. He writes comics, has a graphic novel coming out, his fiction novel just got picked up, and one of his two current series has been made into an ongoing series (they were both originally specific-run stories).

    Basically, he's incredibly busy and isn't likely to pick up a series of novels like this to read (especially because he seems to be more visually-inclined and absolutely loves the TV show).

    So he sits in a bus all day driving, sounds like he has all the time in the world to listen to audio tapes. Are they not allowed to?

    Well, aside from the fact that the reason he's not reading the books isn't that he doesn't have time, it's that he doesn't want to know what happens before watching it, they're actually not allowed personal music devices like iPods, radios, MP3-capable phones, etc.

    Him being incredibly busy is just one of the reasons I'm sure he won't crack.

    LaOs on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hachface wrote: »
    Shae's characterization in the TV series doesn't match the image of her I had from the books. I think I actually like TV Shae better.

    She seems like more of a bitch in the show. Kind of threw me, honestly. I guess we'll see how she develops, if she sticks around.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • DomhnallDomhnall Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hahaha, sorry guys. I didn't even think that 12/6 is the 6th of December to you guys. Yeah, with the history of the series and all. Sorry.

    Bronn took Shae from some minor knight. Tyrion objected until he was told 'it's easier this or some toothless old whore' so Tyrion followed his 'instinct'.

    Also it's bookite! There's a t in there! I just took it from a what someone said in the HBO thread.

    The latest episode was fantastic though. Walder Frey was really good (he's the magicless janitor from Harry Potter, he's bitter in all his roles!) and I love how level headed Robb Stark is. He knows he's not as good a swordsman as Jaime is and he has no interest in risking everything for an e-peen contest. Love the acting all round, actually.

    Domhnall on
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  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Domhnall wrote: »
    Hahaha, sorry guys. I didn't even think that 12/6 is the 6th of December to you guys.

    Don't change it! We'll force those stupid Americans to conform into sensible standards step by step.

    THE METRIC SYSTEM WILL BE NEXT. YOU CAN'T RUN FROM RATIONALITY FOREVER.

    DarkCrawler on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    The TV thread has been so sweet. And to think, in two short years
    we'll be able to see it all over again!

    Hachface on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Domhnall wrote: »
    Hahaha, sorry guys. I didn't even think that 12/6 is the 6th of December to you guys.

    Don't change it! We'll force those stupid Americans to conform into sensible standards step by step.

    THE METRIC SYSTEM WILL BE NEXT. YOU CAN'T RUN FROM RATIONALITY FOREVER.

    Have...have you read any American history? Cause we can clearly do our damnedest to try!

    Though I lost all respect for our system of measurement when I found out the definition of an inch. The definition of an inch is not some natural constant, it is not a fucking bar of platinum in a basement somewhere, no the definition of an inch is....

    25.4 MM

    It's like we're not even trying.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • hailthefishhailthefish Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    That's not the original definition of an inch. That's the modern definition of an inch.

    hailthefish on
  • Mei HikariMei Hikari Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    That's not the original definition of an inch. That's the modern definition of an inch.

    Which is "three grains of sound ripe barley being taken out the middle of the ear, well dried, and laid end to end in a row"

    You know, an inch.

    Mei Hikari on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Oh, I know. At times in the past we kept standards around, bars of material resistant to expansion/contraction from temperature and said "These, these are the measure of an inch."

    Now? "Uh, those guys have it figured out, we'll just crib off them."

    Lazy.

    Bring back the days of Royal proclamations and shit. I bet Robert would have had a right proper inch.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    After episode 9, its safe to say that we won't be getting
    a Tower of Joy flashback. I find this kind of interesting...there was nothing about it. Not even Ned asking Varys to send a letter to Jon. This could mean its all a red herring. It could also mean that it would be difficult to show that without making it blindingly obvious. Or maybe they felt it wouldn't work for TV, with all these hints in the first season, and then nothing else as significant for at least the next 2 seasons.

    All book spoilers
    I think its pretty much that it hasn't been officially confirmed to jon even by book 4, so why show something that won't be addressed for years real time? If/when jon find out in a future book someone/something will have to tell him, so you might as well wait til you get to that point in series to worry about it. I mean we all expect howland reed to meet up with jon at some point and say "yeah, about your 'dad,' I was at this tower...." They can just include that scene, they don't NEED the ned flashbacks and the hints given to bran about the laughing tree knight and the dany dreams, it's just too much detail to get into the show (imo). The point will still get across, and jon and dany and tyrion can still ride their dragons into the sunset or whatever.

    On the other hand if they dropped that flashback right before the surprise ned execution everyone would be like, "the fuck?" And there would be no way to address it, since flashbacker no longer has a head in which to flashback.

    Pellaeon on
  • XtarathXtarath Registered User
    edited June 2011
    So speaking of powerful moments that defy genre tropes Book 2/3 spoilers
    I thought it was a huge wake up when it's mentioned in a Sansa chapter that Payne took Ice. Just that even if Robb made it to King's Landing he wouldn't get the family heirloom just a city of people who are hungry.

    Xtarath on
  • hailthefishhailthefish Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Even more powerful is (book 3/4 spoiler, I forget)
    Ice is melted down to make the Lannister Valyrian swords.

    hailthefish on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Even more powerful is (book 3/4 spoiler, I forget)
    Ice is melted down to make the Lannister Valyrian swords.

    Psssstttt
    The person who did that didn't live to see the end of book 3.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Even more powerful is (book 3/4 spoiler, I forget)
    Ice is melted down to make the Lannister Valyrian swords.

    But
    half of it makes it back to the Starks, at least!

    Tomanta on
  • hailthefishhailthefish Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I read them one after the other, in ebook format, it's hard to keep track of what happened in each book! Jeez.

    hailthefish on
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Hachface wrote: »
    Shae's characterization in the TV series doesn't match the image of her I had from the books. I think I actually like TV Shae better.

    Characterization I like better on the TV show, but lookswise I like my imaginary Shae. Unlike Sean Bean, who was totally different from my imagined Ned Stark but instantly replaced him in my head forever.

    also they missed a huge opportunity to ALL BOOK SPOILERS
    foreshadow R&L by not doing the tower of joy and promised me ned stuff. the arya and baelor thing, while cool, is not nearly as plot integral as R&L. and as I reread the series, the more I realise how important foreshadowing is. disappointed they took that out. it sort of undercuts all the work GRRM did in interweaving those threads and hints.

    valiance on
  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Omni-book spoilers
    I suspect that the TV writers are going to have to find new ways of hinting at R+L* that aren't strictly in keeping with the books. The hints that Martin does have are very... novelistic.

    I can't wait to see Rhaegar during Dany's warlock vision. I hope they make him incredibly badass.

    *Assuming R+L=J is actually true. Which, come on, it totally is.

    Hachface on
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    valiance wrote: »
    also they missed a huge opportunity to ALL BOOK SPOILERS
    foreshadow R&L by not doing the tower of joy and promised me ned stuff. the arya and baelor thing, while cool, is not nearly as plot integral as R&L. and as I reread the series, the more I realise how important foreshadowing is. disappointed they took that out. it sort of undercuts all the work GRRM did in interweaving those threads and hints.
    It may be that they decided it would be too obvious. Certainly, it would be difficult to show Lyanna in her "bed of blood" making it both possible and non-obvious that she had just given birth.

    It's also possible that they just don't want to film any flashbacks. It's a legitimate decision, and it also gives them some easy decisions on what to cut out to fit the whole book into 10 hours.

    Tarantio on
  • the Togfatherthe Togfather Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Oh man. Had a nice chat w/ the wife over dinner, asked what she thought of last night's episode after some time to reflect...
    book 2/3
    ...when I mentioned that many denizens of the internet are threatening to leave the series after Ned's execution, she found that ridiculous. The book has been written that way for a long time, she said. Then she drops this lovely nugget: "Plus, I'm sure George makes sure that Joffery gets what's coming to him. I mean, yeah...I guess if he's not brutally murdered within the next season I'll be...pretty upset."

    This is going to be so much fun.

    ...actually, which happens first? RW or Joff's comeuppance?

    the Togfather on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    After episode 9, its safe to say that we won't be getting
    a Tower of Joy flashback. I find this kind of interesting...there was nothing about it. Not even Ned asking Varys to send a letter to Jon. This could mean its all a red herring. It could also mean that it would be difficult to show that without making it blindingly obvious. Or maybe they felt it wouldn't work for TV, with all these hints in the first season, and then nothing else as significant for at least the next 2 seasons.

    I think they are going to move that backstory over to
    Meera and Jojen, they are already the ones who tell Bran about the tournament of Harrenhall and the Knight of the Laughing Tree. No reason they can't also hint at the other important stuff their dad did with Ned.

    Also they can seed some of that into Barristan and Dany's talks about Rheagar

    Balefuego on
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This discussion has been closed.