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[Game-On] WARMACHINE & HORDES - WARMACHINE MK II is out!

OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered User regular
edited January 2010 in Critical Failures
Previous thread can be found here.OP is shamelessly lifted from TheOtherHorseman's post, with a few changes to update the fact that a few years have passed since then.
What is it?

Warmachine is a game of steam, blood, and magic.

Steam, you say?

The most noticeable aspect of Warmachine is that while it is most definitely a fantasy game, it incorporates things called Warjacks. Warjacks are steam-powered mechs. They make things die. It's pretty cool. You'll see a few later.

Blood? This intrigues!

Warmachine is set within the world of Caen, on the continent of Immoren. More specifically, it takes place within the Iron Kingdoms, which are four in number. They all hit eachother with swords and shoot eachother and blow eachother up. Hence, blood.

MAGIC!? FIREBALLS! BOOM!

Magic pops up in a variety of ways in Warmachine, but the most noticeable way is the inclusion of Warcasters. These are the leaders of your army, capable of casting mighty spells and pulling off a special game-changing Feat every match. It is these Warcasters which control the mighty and hella-awesome Warjacks I mentioned earlier.

So, yeah. They're pretty important.

The Skinny
Here's a good rundown of the basics of both games, etc by Anon.
WM/Hordes is about 100-150 for 500 point army for pretty much any faction. Keep in mind that you can also buy the 50 dollar battle box, and find games easily at your LGS (local game store) to learn the game before you expand.

You play the game on a 4' by 4' table (most of the time, larger for 750/1000 point battles) with terrain pieces placed around in a fair fashion (i.e. if your army doesn't have the ability to walk over rough terrain, you shouldn't cover your side of the table with trees/craters/water). Terrain is usually just Styrofoam painted or modeled to look like mountains and such. I suck at making terrain, but some people are fantastic at it.

Its a really really fun set of games, with all kinds of tactical nuance that drives you to plan and direct your troops rather then "everyone fires/everyone dies".

Warmachine is a game of resource management, where as Hordes is a game of risk management. In WM you can allocate your "Focus" to direct and power up your machines, put to much into them and you can't cast spells or defend yourself properly. To little and you might not kill what you wanted to kill, and are left with an angry opponent ready to beat your face in.

In Hordes, you gather resources from forcing your beasts to perform actions. To little, and you can't cast your spells, fight well with your leader (warlock), or heal if needed. To much and your beasts might go nuts, and you will lose control of them...perhaps they will attack your own troops even!

Beasts are just as powerful as Warjacks, and a Hordes caster can mitigate damage to himself, by transferring it onto one of his beasts. A Warcaster (WM leader) can increase his armor (lessening damage to himself) by retaining focus, but he can not transfer it.

Its a game of tactics and proper planning.



CYGNAR

Cygnar are the technological innovators of the Iron Kingdom. Their prowess at developing new weaponry in addition to their highly trained troops have ensured their place as a major power in the world. If words like "Gun Mage" and "Storm Glaive" make you sexually excited, you might be a Cygnar player in your heart of hearts.

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MENOTH

The Protectorate of Menoth was formed due to a religious conflict in the aforementioned kingdom of Cygnar. The devotees of Morrow were the majority, and got to keep their nice cushy kingdom. The disciples of Menoth were given a piece of crappy land to placate them and made into an independent nation. They found oil, built up some military forces which don't technically exist as such, and now they're fond of making their heathen enemies explode and die. Nice people, all around.

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KHADOR


The Russia-er, Khador is a massive and cold land inhabited by a fiercely independent people. They're rather expansionistic which leads them to a great deal of conflict with their neighbors. Mainly, Cygnar. The armies of Khador are bolstered by ponderous warjacks that could punch your head through your ass if they weren't careful while shaking your hand.

khadorad6.jpg

CRYX

So, there's this island, right? It's a pretty sweet little island, all happy and stuff. Then Toruk, Unholy Father of All Dragons, lands there. It's less happy now. A haven for abominations, Cryx is ruled by Toruk and his 13 Lich Lords. Two of these, Lich Lord Terminus and Lich Lord Asphyxious (known as the Iron Lich prior to his promotion), are well known in the Iron Kingdom due to their propensity for leading armies to pillage and destroy. They're good at what they do.

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MERCENARIES


This is a world where conflict rules and wars are always ready to flare up. What kind of moron could pass up a chance to make a buck? Mercenaries come in all shapes and sizes. Some are exiles from their own land, called traitors by those they once called brother.

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Others are short beardless fellows who like money.

gortensq4.jpg

It takes all kinds, right?

Warmachine information can be found in three books:

Warmachine: Prime Remix
Warmachine: Escalation
Warmachine: Apotheosis
Warmachine: Superiority
Forces of Warmachine: Pirates of the Broken Coast
Warmachine: Legends

Prime Remix is an updated take on the original Rulebook, chock full of Errata and rules updates from the other supplements through Superiority, such as Cavalry/Dragoon rules, Epic Warcasters, and Warjack bonds.

Pirates of the Broken Coast focuses on the Talion Charter, a mercenary contract focusing on Privateer-themed mercs! Full of awesome characters and adventure.

Legends is the newest book and brings the storyline started in Prime to a climax. It also introduces new character jacks, character units, hell, almost everything in this book is a character!

Reccommended purchases for starters: Get your battlebox. Play with it. If you don't like it, trade with friends until you get one you like the feel of, then go and get Prime: Remix and your faction's faction deck. Faction decks contain all your faction's stat cards up until Superiority. This will help you figure out a good army to use. You might want to get the Mercenary deck too, unless you're Cryx because hardly anyone likes working for them. ( :P )

Then get Pirates of the Broken Coast and Legends if you really want to have stats on absolutely everything.

Play like you've got a pair.

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OtakuD00D on
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Posts

  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Hordes

    Hordes is Warmachine's young, feral brother. It is roughly as large and it tends to bite more often.

    Warmachine is steam, blood, and magic.

    Hordes is rage, blood and magic.

    Warcasters in Warmachine use their focus to drive their lumbering warjacks across the field and into battle, as well as to cast spells. The Hordes equivalent of a Warcaster is a Warlock. Warlocks don't have some internal well of power like focus to tap. Warlocks feed their magic with the collective Fury of their warbeasts (the giant, fleshy Hordes equivalent of warjacks).

    It works like this:

    1. Warlock forces warbeast to do something
    2. Warbeast gets super pissed about it
    3. Pissiness is drained off to cast Magical Fist of Groin-hurting +2
    4. Repeat

    If you don't drain off the pissiness and do something with it, the beast gets ubersuperduper pissed and decides it wants to kill everything, including you. Neat, huh?

    Anyway, let's move on.

    Elsewhere in the world of Caen, trouble is a-brewin'. In what might seem a familiar situation, there are four groups of badasses that want to beat the snot out of eachother.

    The Trollbloods

    We last saw the Trollbloods in Warmachine as some ragtag mercenaries (well, not in the last post you didn't). The Trollbloods are a bunch of different troll races that are getting super duper angry at everyone else because everyone else keeps invading their land. This is similar to the situation that the Native Americans faced when the colonists started expanding. They also have a big, pissed off Scottish highlander bent to them.

    Unlike the Native Americans, the Trollbloods are big-ass trolls with magic, guns, claws, and unyielding rage the likes of which could quite literary incinerate any number of children.

    Also, the Trollbloods are, like the Cygnar from Warmachine, the default "good guys," except their skin is more prettily colored. Yay!

    Trolls are built Tonka Tough. All their troopers, save their Whelps, are Tough, making them that much harder to kill. They love bricking up and marching down to beat some face in! Their warbeasts are some of the most resilient, hard-hitting MONSTERS in the entire game. Don't ever take them lightly.

    btwutroll10day120lgcs3.jpg

    The Circle Orboros

    The Circle Orboros is an ancient order of druids with powerful magic. They seek to maintain the balance between Menoth, the god of Law, order, and humanity, and the Devourer Wurm, the "god" of Chaos and all things wild and beastial. In battle, they are fast as hell and stealthy. If you don't expect that when you throw down with them, if you come out at all you don't come out as a happy camper. Since they are an ancient druid order with the power of nature itself at their command, they are probably angry that you're stepping on their grass or some junk like that.

    Cut it out and the wolf-monsters won't eat you, I guess.

    The Circle excels at making up their own rules and controlling the board. They're fast and swift- everything in their army except their living Warbeasts can ignore rough terrain. Circle's heavy on magic and they love hit-and-run tactics, able to smack you up and throw down a forest in front of you, then run off to fight another day. Be careful about using upkeep spells around them; it'll only make them hit you harder. As a whole, they don't hit quite as hard as other factions, so they might suffer against Trollbloods and Khador.

    whordes4gwl8.jpg


    The Skorne

    The Skorne are a sadistic, heavily militarized race that are invading the land. They are highly disciplined. They are well-armed. They want to eat your babies. Or, at the very least, to hurt your babies and giggle about it. Why are they invading? Look at the Warmachine post again. Do you see that first mercenary picture?

    The reason he is a traitor is that he is serving the deposed king of Cygnar, who was a dick. That deposed king proceeded to go to the Skorne Empire. The Skorne pretty much hate everything, so they tried to kill him. He killed everyone they sent at him. Since the Skorne have a boner for killing things well, they made him their leader, and he's driving the invasion.

    The Skorne are a combined-arms force. They have good melee. Pretty good shooting. Hard-hitting slam-heavy beasts, and really cool magic. They work best when making the most out of all their assets! Plus, they can take a hit. Until recently, they had no Advance Deploy or terrain-ignoring abilities to speak of.

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    THE LEGION OF EVERBLIGHT

    Remember the Cryx and their giant honking dragon godking who sits snugly in the center of their undead island of horrors? Remember how I mentioned that Toruk, said dragon, is the Evil Father of all Dragons, Who Are of Equivalent Evil but Not Power? Allow me to introduce you to my friend, the dragon Everblight.

    You see, dragons are nasty because when they die, they always come back. Their soul is bound to an athanc (kinda like a Lich's philactery, for the D&D types) and can rebuild a body with time. Everblight decided he didn't want to rebuild jack shit because Toruk would mess him up again for fighting with daddy. Everblight is acting through mortal agents, twisting them into sick monstrosities that are rather good at killing things.

    Everblight excels in hitting hard and fast. They're the Alpha Strike faction. They love hitting first- and need to. They don't take much damage. Their warbeasts also have the unique ability to ignore most LOS rules in the game. Half of them fly. AWESOME! Remember how Circle loved making up its own rules? Everblight loves ignoring them.

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    The Hordes book is much like the Warmachine books: It is nice to have if you want all of the rules collected for you and in your hand before you buy things, or if you just like the fluff.

    It is called Hordes: Primal

    There's a second one out! It's called Hordes: Evolution

    Coming February 25th is the second expansion, an analogue to Apotheosis, and then some! It's called Hordes: Metamorphosis

    One cool thing to note is that Hordes armies are fully compatible with Warmachine armies. They can go to town on eachother's asses without any tinkering with the rules.

    RELEVANT LINKS

    Tabletop Commander: A really good WM/Hordes army builder.

    Armies of Immoren: The other army builder. Site is currently down now, I think.

    The Warstore: Awesome online store for all your Warmchine needs. Flat 5 buck shipping, solid selection, great prices. Neal is a cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

    The Battle College: A really comprehensive Wiki to get you started. No actual stats, but in-depth info of just about everything released so far to give you an idea of what does what.

    Vassal!
    Vassal is a really awesome java-based Tabletop gaming sim. It provides a generic token/damage box/measuring/die roll system. You make modules for it for whatever miniature game you want. In this case, there's a Warmachine one. You can play it against other people! It's really fun for when you aren't able to go to the game store.

    Get it here.

    Get the Warmachine module here.

    GAME STORE LIST
    So you moved or you want to start playing? Maybe one of us plays at a game store near your area and you don't even know it. Here's a few, for example.

    California
    San Diego: Game Empire - Sundays and Mondays from 4PM ish until closing.
    Players: OtakuD00D (Cygnar, Circle)

    Idaho
    Boise: All About Games - Thursday from 3PM until closing.
    Players: Anon the Falcon (Trollbloods)

    OtakuD00D on
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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    So, whose picking up meta right away?

    Anon the Felon on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I am.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    I'm very interested to see what is in meta.

    Legends flat out made me quit warmachine, but I'm hoping that meta is better.

    It better not be more infantry spam and $60 dollar models that are bloody useless though.

    Inconditionate on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Mulg, the trollblood character beast is 60 bucks....but I'll probably never need to field one so its kind of a non-issue.

    I am more interested in what the new 'locks are for Trolls...

    Anon the Felon on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well, a worker in a store was waving the book around, somewhere. Guy who was there with him went and spoiled a lot of Troll stuff.

    Mulg spoilers, along with some other things brought up. If you don't want to be surprised, don't click or don't read past the first paragraph if you just care about Mulg:
    A HELL of a beatstick. Probably one of the best. He also has something called "You eating that?". If a normally snackable target gets destroyed within 4 inches of him, he can opt to eat it.

    There's some rune sorcerers too, as well as a unit of "Fennblades". They apparently have some nasty anti-Cav tricks and can attack you first if you charge them.

    Whelp hordes. Cheap, used to clutter the field. You can opt to have them appear when a Troll warbeast (Dunno if it's heavies only or both.) takes damage. Said warbeasts can eat them to help regenerate better.)

    Troll Dragoon helps the Bison Riders follow up after a Bull Rush. Holy shit. (Skorne gets a Ferox rider, Circle gets a dude on an armored wolf, and Skorne gets a sorceress riding a flying dragonspawn mount.)

    New Trollblood Warlock is a sort of female gypsy queen. Her feat makes all trollbloods in her range (Dunno what it's specific to) immune to knockdown and gives them a 3+ tough save. She's supposedly one of the best support casters for the Trollbloods at the moment. One of her spells, 1 for 1 fury, helps her remove a damage point from all friendly Trollblood beasts in her control area. Another one gives an enemy model/unit an extra damage die at the cost of removing the highest one. The next one she has innately but can also cast on others: Precognition- +2 DEF against Ranged/Magic and the victim can move 3 inches if the attack misses. She does extra damage against wounded enemies and buffs her allies near her (Presumably CMD) in some form if she kills her target. Crazy stuff.

    She's Fury 7.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • AsherAsher Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm very interested to see what is in meta.

    Legends flat out made me quit warmachine, but I'm hoping that meta is better.

    It better not be more infantry spam and $60 dollar models that are bloody useless though.

    Care to elaborate? I loved Legends. It added some awesome warjacks and other stuff that makes warjacks better. Then again I play Cygnar so I think I got a pretty good deal.

    Also, those spoilers are nifty.

    Asher on
    I put models on Instagram now: asher_paints
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Asher wrote: »
    I'm very interested to see what is in meta.

    Legends flat out made me quit warmachine, but I'm hoping that meta is better.

    It better not be more infantry spam and $60 dollar models that are bloody useless though.

    Care to elaborate? I loved Legends. It added some awesome warjacks and other stuff that makes warjacks better. Then again I play Cygnar so I think I got a pretty good deal.

    Also, those spoilers are nifty.

    Indeed. Cast Venom on something with deneghra and the Cankerworm is a BEAST! (not to mention its "meat grinder" ability!)

    ThaKapn on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well, those spoilers are a week old or so from the PP forums. But really TB is full of beat sticks, shelling out 60 bucks and god knows how many points for a slightly better or new one kind of sucks. As to the new warlock, meh "it (to avoid spoiling anyone) sounds interesting, but I would like to see who our other one is, supposedly we all got 3?

    TB got that one, and eDoomshaper, who else? Plus I am a big fan of seeing the models, some of the best units have the ugliest models :\ (can't cite any here, just saying, it happens)

    Edit: Buying a Grim Angus to lead my trolls, he strikes me as a total bad ass and death machine.

    List like this:
    Grim Angus
    Axer
    Impaler
    Impaler
    Krielstone & Scribes (6)
    Stone Scribe Elder
    Trollkin Champions
    Either: Saxon Orrik
    or
    Lose one scribe and take a fell caller

    Anon the Felon on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Well speaking of Legends, I finally got my Cryx Bloodgorgers in. Sweet jesus almost $60cdn for the box and $22 per 2 unit booster! What in the heck happened to the prices? Must be because of the demand from the switch to plastic coming up in a couple weeks here...

    ThaKapn on
  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    The major point of failure with Legends is that I and a lot of other local players were VERY unhappy with heavy jacks at the point in time which Legends was released.

    PP did their typical "we are awesome, everything we do is awesome, therefore any concerns you have are totally being addressed 100% by any product we are releasing because everything we do is awesome" routine and led people to have expectations that jacks would be addressed by Legends.

    I've got Cryx, and prior to Legends, the Deathjack was our only really useful heavy. After Legends, the Deathjack is our only really useful heavy.

    He is useful because necrovent makes him effective against infantry spam because only reach infantry and multi-wound infantry can charge him. 10 dudes with 1 hitpoint and POW 10 weapons will beat the piss out of a warjack because the charge rules are absurdly stacked in the favor of infantry. Oh, and they are faster, so they are gonna charge.

    His soul furnace allows him to regenerate lost systems (like warbeasts), meaning like a warbeast, he has actual staying power. He might lose an arm to a lucky shot, but he can get that arm back, which makes him infinitely better than any other jack out there. You can buy a heavy or buy a squad (or two if your Cryx), and a boosted handcannon pot shot has a chance of completely neutering your heavy, but a squad or a warbeast are 100% immune to such neutering, because one hit can't inflict catastrophic damage that you can't recover from.

    His skulls of hate generate focus for free, and that focus can be used on spells. Warjacks without arcnodes make warcasters worse. They steal their resources, fielding a heavy and making it do anything means your NOT casting a spell. The Deathjack not only ignores this, but like a warbeast, he actually makes the warcaster BETTER as a result of him being on the field.


    So, when Legends delivered nothing to change the fact that heavy jacks are expensive, fragile, highly vulnerable to basic infantry with no special rules (and rapecaged by the new lolinfantry they keep putting out), and just an all around bad choice that they keep making bigger and bigger models for...

    I'm not playing a game where experience with the system tells me that I can make any list I've got a heavy jack in better by removing the heavy jack and putting in Bane Knights, and PP keeps putting out new infantry that need to be as good as Bane Knights.

    Jacks might be a fist in the face if you used properly. But removing the heavy jacks from your list and putting in more infantry is like slipping on a pair of brass knuckles.

    But PP is awesome perfect, and heavy jacks are AWESOME and USEFUL and don't need to be tweaked or addressed at all. Just like how they said that about the Sentinel prior to remix.


    That being said, Hordes is a vastly superior system to Warmachine, so their refusal to fix things they screwed up won't be an issue as long as meta and the books after don't shit things up.

    Yea, I'm bitter, but I promise to stop being bitter when I can play with my Slayers or my Reaper (that I bought for $20 each) without the other guy saying "your playing with a shit to handicap yourself aren't you".

    Inconditionate on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well, those spoilers are a week old or so from the PP forums. But really TB is full of beat sticks, shelling out 60 bucks and god knows how many points for a slightly better or new one kind of sucks. As to the new warlock, meh "it (to avoid spoiling anyone) sounds interesting, but I would like to see who our other one is, supposedly we all got 3?

    TB got that one, and eDoomshaper, who else? Plus I am a big fan of seeing the models, some of the best units have the ugliest models :\ (can't cite any here, just saying, it happens)

    Edit: Buying a Grim Angus to lead my trolls, he strikes me as a total bad ass and death machine.

    List like this:
    Grim Angus
    Axer
    Impaler
    Impaler
    Krielstone & Scribes (6)
    Stone Scribe Elder
    Trollkin Champions
    Either: Saxon Orrik
    or
    Lose one scribe and take a fell caller
    TB's second Epic was spoiled towards the end of the last thread.
    Epic Doomshaper.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    The major point of failure with Legends is that I and a lot of other local players were VERY unhappy with heavy jacks at the point in time which Legends was released.

    I have to argue a bit, but I have to say I DEFINITELY see your point. The Nightmare jack is all kinds of cool when compared to a Slayer, but.... its just a slayer with reach and little higher MAT. But warjacks have definitely been overshadowed by infantry, especially since you have to spend an insane amount of focus to do what a squad of infantry can do for free... and better.

    Yet, throwing an enemy (or better you friendly) jack into a squad to squish them never gets old. And the fact that they are often the only unit (non warcaster) that can even damage an enemy warcaster fully charged makes them very valuable. The ability to arcnode is also invaluable especially since everyone sends a wave of infantry your way. (Strange then that NONE of the new bonejacks have nodes...)

    Oh, and I think and play the Combine as basically 3 really powerful bonejacks since thats what their stats are like. They're jacks without the drawbacks! Oh, and they can kill enemy arc nodes to make more arcnodes of my own.:P

    ThaKapn on
  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    ThaKapn,

    I'll agree that there is room to argue with what I said, because I'll fully admit I'm really unhappy with the viability of jacks so I hit the point pretty hard. I agree with your overall summary of infantry being able to do what jacks do but better and for free. I guess that doesn't make jacks *bad*, but it really isn't saying something good about jacks.

    But like I said, Hordes is a really good system. When I saw someone not put enough warbeasts on the table, my reaction was always "this is going to be easy". If the meta stuff maintains that feeling, I'll likely pick some stuff up.

    As a side note, IIRC jacks you make with the widowshadow combine are not under control of a warcaster, and warcasters may only arc spells through or assign focus to warjacks under their control. Which I think honestly underscores how bad the Slayer and the Reaper are, since a unit can give you one for FREE and its not OP, or even considered one of their good abilities.

    Inconditionate on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    This is why you make Helldivers out of light jacks. Helldivers are awesome for what they can do without focus.

    I personally don't see much of the problem. Warjacks have their role and so do Infantry. At least Legends offered plenty of buffs to allow specific types of Jacks an edge over Infantry.

    • Kraye + Guided Fire makes pretty much any ranged jack he controls, especially Sentinels, infantry munchers.
    • Beast-09 and Drago are both very potent Infantry annihilators. Especially Beast-09. Beast-09 can pretty much do it all. ...Except ranged combat, of course.
    • Fire of Salvation, especially with Kreoss, laughs at pathetic attempts to slow him down with magic, and really clears up infantry clumped around him.
    • Thorn's really good. He can't be tied up in melee with Haley around, and Kraye makes him immune to free strikes and lets him cripple shield wall units from up to 17 inches away (19 on Feat Turn) with a well-aimed charge.
    • Nightmare. Nightmare. I can see using him more than Deathjack. It's an even better assassination 'Jack than Deathjack, at least unless you're going after highly armored warcasters. Mortenebra does really stupid stuff with him.
    • Speaking of Mortenebra. Harrowers are completely ludicrous with her. Scythe and Terminal Velocity means he'll hit every living model within reach of his front arc with boosted attack rolls. If that doesn't wipe out infantry, I don't know what doesn't. Nightmare can kill a caster turn 2 with her, too.
    • Reznik offers Jacks some pretty good support. Brand of Heresy will save you a ton of focus since all your jacks' attack and damage rolls will be boosted against the branded target. This includes an entire unit of infantry. Last I checked, Menoth had some pretty good AOE-making Jacks. Put that to good use.
    • Epic Goreshade gives Dark Shroud + Stealth to his entire battlegroup. Can't go wrong with that.

    I just think you're kneejerking a bit too hard and expected Hordes. They're seperate games and Warmachine has to fix its problems a step at a time without stepping on Hordes' shoes. Legends was a great step in the right direction.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • ClawshrimpyClawshrimpy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well, I've since tweaked my Menoth list (for Story Campigns, and plus I honestly thought this might be a better Warcaster to consider for eKrieoss.)


    Faction: Protectorate of Menoth
    Army Points: 992/1000
    Victory Points: 38

    Feora, Priestess of the Flame:
    -Devout
    -Revenger
    -Hierophant
    Grand Exemplar Kreoss:
    -Fire of Salvation
    -Blessing of Vengeance

    High Exemplar Gravus
    Vassal of Menoth
    Wrack
    Choir of Menoth (6)
    Daughters of the Flame
    Exemplar Vengers (5)
    Holy Zealots (8) + Monolith Bearer
    Knights Exemplar
    Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios

    (Keep in mind this is for pre-Bastions release.)

    Feora can actually work quite well with Epic Krieoss just due to the fact she can hang back a little and make good use out of her Node+Hierophant and fling her nice spells from practically across the table. and well, Feora is used a lot less than Severius when it comes to long range Protectorate casters, but then again, regular Severius is overused as it is, and I'm gonna get looks for not jumping on the Epic Severius bandwagon. (I just think you'd have to be legendarilly thick not to put eKrieoss with Fire.)

    Clawshrimpy on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    As a side note, IIRC jacks you make with the widowshadow combine are not under control of a warcaster, and warcasters may only arc spells through or assign focus to warjacks under their control. Which I think honestly underscores how bad the Slayer and the Reaper are, since a unit can give you one for FREE and its not OP, or even considered one of their good abilities.

    Ah, thanks. Havent had a chance to field test them yet with their ability really. The re-roll and anti-upkeep effects are what I've used so far, as well as the most epic Skarr-bomb ever.

    Moved the Deathjack forward and necrovented second turn, cast Pupper-Master on Skarre after moving the Withershadow up within 6" of the Deathjack, then ran the Celephax overlords into the necrovent (thus powering up the withershadow). Moved skarre and, popped her Feat (+5) and targeted Maelovus, and boosted the roll. The enemy warcaster took a power 24+3d6 hit, and died an amazing death. End game. :P

    ThaKapn on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Heh. Want the most epic skarre bomb ever? Do a multifaction 3 on 3 game and pair her up with Siege and Epic Sorscha. Pop both Epic Sorscha and Siege's feats. Cast Arcane Shield on Bane Knights or preferably on full soul token-stocked Withershadow Combine.

    On Skarre's feat turn, if you go with the Withershadow Combine, you can pull off a Pow 27 Skarre bomb that does double damage on a half-armored target.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    So, I was looking over some different minis and such, I really think if you took the GW lizardmen and based them properly, they would be just a great looking army. You could even play them using TB rules since the toughness and melee centric play type look right...they even have minis for lesser warbeasts and such.

    Just thinkin, they would look pretty rad. Now if only PP would do a reptile Hordes army on their own...it would fit well as another "good guy" race.

    Edit: not saying TB looks bad (hell I love the models) I am just partial to lizardmen armies/styling.

    Anon the Felon on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    You can sorta do that already with Krueger, Bog Trogs, Gatormen Posse, and Wrong Eye and Snapjaw. Plus supporting beasts. ;D

    OtakuD00D on
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  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    OtakuDOOD,

    You make some good points.

    I think my problem is that I've got several thousand points of Cryx, and my expectations for Legends was that they were going to *fix* the problems with the things I already own. Where are the 'unit attachment' patches for the jacks?

    I think the other problem is that the people I've played with have bloody well learned how to protect their warcaster like a pro.

    I've found it takes some pretty serious heroic measures to catch a caster with a heavy after people have played enough. I think the last time I caught a caster with a heavy was when I used eSkarre to chain-ram a Levi into position so the Deathjack could 2-hand throw it over their blockers and onto their caster. It takes something pretty crazy to catch them off guard. It also took every last single point of focus I had, plus two free points of focus from the deathjack to make it happen.


    -

    As for the Skarre bomb thing, I always find it far more effective to use sac-strike to pick off solos and unit leaders and only use her feat when your going to crush their army beyond repair. If you get one bad roll when you use her feat to go after their army, it still won't save them. Skarre Bombs are one thing, but 20 McThralls throwing out 40 POW 16 punches under dark guidance is a force of nature. The look or horror on their face as their entire army melts in a single turn is simply priceless.

    Inconditionate on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    So true...

    As for unit attachments for jacks, something along the lines of Darius' halfjacks would be awsome.

    ThaKapn on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, but... the kind of Skarre Bomb I wrote up above is just for sheer lulz. I actually did it with Siege in a 2 vs 2 tournament a couple months ago. It was hilarious, though the first round didn't work. Someone paired Evlad with the Piper and a single Blood Legacied Iron Fang with an extra attack from the Piper killed BOTH casters. We were trying not to stay close to each other but fucking Evlad has us cornered. Second round, we did it against Karchev and all but crippled him (My friend rolled mid to low on the actual damage roll. We did about 25 points of damage in all). Next round, we did it against Grim Angus and killed one of his Impalers outright from transferring.

    Played with Mortenebra much? With a Leviathan, Deathjack, and Nightmare, she can really take casters down.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    You know, those tactics sound quite lame really.

    So you can do all this hokey shit and end the game on round 1 or 2? doesn't that kind of....ruin the fun?

    I don't mind playing smart, or getting totally shut out by a good list. But an unstoppable magical smiting that outright kills shit on turn 2 strikes me as dumb.

    Anon the Felon on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    They really do. It kinda sucks that Cryx excels at that sort of thing. On the bright side, once you counter them, it gets a lot harder for Cryx. In general, those lists tend to be a one trick pony so once you see them enough, you can plan around them and leave your opponent with his pants down. That's the great thing about Alpha Strikes. If they fail, it's really hard to recover from it since you gave it your all with little regard to defense.

    Cygnar, for instance, can use Precursors with the UA to completely nullify Mortenebra's Death Race-assisted Nightmare assassination run. Death Race depends on destroying a model to make Nightmare move again. Precursors + UA and any friendly model within 3 inches of them get Removed From Play instead. No destruction, no movement.
    I really don't win all that much. My store is really competitive and I tend to forget what I'm doing sometimes, or bad rolls kill me. I've been told I roll STUPID HIGH, but at the same time I also roll like shit. It averages it out in the end- I just don't roll intermediate amounts very often. :D

    OtakuD00D on
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  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Thats why I dont play with Skarre. My usual casters are Terminus, Denny, and the Coven (Although I really want to try out Easphyxious because his model is so freaking cool). I play an unstoppable hit squad, or a board control game usually.

    ThaKapn on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Well the way I see it is: I am glad I chose Hordes and more specifically trolls. Even if you try to gank me with retarded damage on round 1, I can transfer it, and regen + heal my beasts or hope for a tough roll.

    I am pretty excited about the opportunities with Grim I will have, with 3 beasts I can lose one and not get fury screwed....plus he can shoot what...17" with his sniper rifle with the impaler animus? Bait the line + Rush = that axer having a...12" charge and can still boost his hit on that slam to own some face.

    Snare gun seems semi-useless, but I figure it can annoy some heavy beasts and stuff. Snare it, maybe throw a spear at it to make my point, then move away the next round while he bitches about not being able to move.

    Anon the Felon on
  • OtakuD00DOtakuD00D Can I hit the exploding rocks? San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    ThaKapn wrote: »
    Thats why I dont play with Skarre. My usual casters are Terminus, Denny, and the Coven (Although I really want to try out Easphyxious because his model is so freaking cool). I play an unstoppable hit squad, or a board control game usually.
    Skarre isn't so great against Hordes due to transferring. On the bright side, Skarre works very well for unstoppable hit squad armies. Dark Guidance is freaking sweet, and so is her feat if you actually use it to benefit your dudes instead of a charged up Sac Strike.

    Odd as she is, I really dig eSkarre. She has shades of Cygnar Caster in her. Very supportive caster and Black Spot can make a Leviathan shoot a surprising amount of times per turn. Black Spot is hot shit, period.

    OtakuD00D on
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  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    I think regular Skarre gets a bad rap.

    She is really well balanced, its just that when you play against her you NEED to pay attention to what she is doing.

    She is the deadliest warcaster in the game by a huge margin. Playing against Skarre is all about paying attention and avoiding sudden death.

    If your just paying attention to what your doing, but not paying attention to what she is doing, then she is going to whomp you. Hard.

    Spending all of your focus to try and kill stuff, isn't paying attention to what Skarre is doing. Skarre is standing there with the potential to bomb you, and if you spend all of your focus, the bomb is a really good move. So don't hand her a very good and very obvious move on a silver platter. She can't force you to spend focus, so don't. You control her as long as you pay attention and don't give her an opening, because she isn't any good at forcing the situation.

    Also, don't EVER get into melee with her (loludead. No exceptions.), or let her army be in a position to reach all or most of your army on a single turn (Feat + Guidance = everything they can reach dies). That last one is the big one, because the bomb and the melee murder are actually her minor threats.

    She is awful at sustained support and Cryx is awful without support, and her army will run out of gas sooner than later.

    Inconditionate on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    She is awful at sustained support and Cryx is awful without support, and her army will run out of gas sooner than later.

    Necrosurgions, Necrotechs (and scrap thralls for more bombs!) and of course the Revenant crew with Rengrave. Ohhh so you thought you could outlast me? Bwa ha ha haaaa

    ThaKapn on
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I just finished putting my Grim together today along with my new Hero. I had to do a head switch on Grim, though. I put Grogspar's head on, shaved off the skull on the hat, and then sculpted some goggles resting on the brim with greenstuff. I don't get to play many games, but my wife's battle box of circle is going to get a whomping tonight.

    Toothy on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I'm not sure about that head swap, but I understand wanting that hat on him.

    I have the opportunity to play about 2 or 3 times a week, but am currently deeply involved in painting my guys.

    Anon the Felon on
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    He looks pretty badass with the pipe. It's lucky I was planning on the swap, since the blister mysteriously didn't have a head anyway. It did come with two bases, though.

    I mostly don't get to play because I hate driving 45 minutes to go beg people to let me flail at them ineffectively. The next league that starts up, I might end up driving up there, though.

    Toothy on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, the people around here are lazy as sin. Almost nobody has their army even glued and/or primed and its been almost 6 months since they bought up all the books and unit/battle boxes. Meanwhile I'm sitting around only able to play against 2 Cygnar players (The Menoth left town). I cant wait to move down south to "Great White Games"

    ThaKapn on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Wow, that makes my LGS look good by comparison.

    I have so far painted all my stuff, waiting on grim and the rest of krielstone squad to get to 500, but that won't be much painting.

    Nearly everyone else plays with silver armies, one lady has a base coat army, another is fully painted (and very well actually). But still theres about 5 or 6 pewter armies.

    Anon the Felon on
  • InconditionateInconditionate Registered User
    edited February 2009
    What I started doing towards the end of when I was playing, was that I would glue, prime and then base coat my miniatures, and do the actual 'real painting' on them whenever I got around to it.

    Having an entire army that is base coated looks a lot better than having a silver army with one or two squads fully painted and based. It hardly takes any time at all to base coat either.

    Inconditionate on
  • ThaKapnThaKapn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    No time at all if you've got black primer! :P Which the local place sells, so I dont know what the guys problem is here...

    ThaKapn on
  • Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    So, I lied, am in mid process on my Trollkin Champions. I hate painting this unit. They suck.

    Anon the Felon on
  • JebuJebu Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Necrosurgeons are terrible. They actually make Mechanithralls bad by using them.

    Jebu on
  • ToothyToothy Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Champs are so easy to paint, especially compared to other trollbloods.

    1) Do skin.
    2) Do armor.
    3) Quitari.
    4) Leather.
    5) Basing and fiddly bits.

    The stone scribes usually have way too much crap on them. They look great, but I didn't realize how big of a task that was going to be. I have about 9 of my 30 trollblood models painted. I at least assembled them all and primered 'em, though.
    Except the Blitzer, sassafrassin' chain.

    Toothy on
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