I do understand that loads of people who play his game WILL understand the message this game is trying to convey. it's interesting that you bring up Fight Club though: MW2/GTA ect are all video games while Fight CLub is a movie. Many people, Including some who play the games, think we are an immature media and are simply there for enjoyment. Movies have already been established as a mature media.
If this scene was shown in a movie then there probably wouldn't be any controversy.
But it's not, it's in a game and that's what will make Many people angry.
I hate ingnorance.
I definitely think that's true - video games are just kind of seen as mindless enjoyment (by gamers and non-gamers alike), rather than an attempt at art or any kind of message. IW is obviously trying to change that by putting something as powerful as this into the game.
People take exception to video games because the player is the one taking the actions, and it's an exception that is hard to ignore. There is a big difference between watching civilians being murdered in a movie, and actually aiming down the sights at them in a video game. That's not to say that this makes the latter any less acceptable - if anything, it makes the images that much more disturbing and powerful, that much more able to get the point across, and I think it's obvious that Infinity Ward is aware of this.
And while I know I said that there is a difference between violence in a movie, and actually being the perpetrator (regardless of context), you can't ignore movies and shows with anti-heroes, where the main character partakes in seriously immoral activity, and yet we root for him/her anyway. There's not too much of a difference between watching American Psycho and playing this part of MW2.
Anyway, apparently the level is optional. A voluntary peek into the madness, in that sense I'm cool with it.
I don't have problem with criticizing their point.
Anyway, I think the option of playing the 'scene' makes it even more effective, in my opinion. Being a part of it would be terrifying, even sickening, and they are obviously just trying to make you care that much more about the whole 'cause.'
By 'cause,' I mean the counter-terrorist cause, not the terrorist one. Meaning, it makes you want to stop them that much more - having seen it from a first person perspective.
Ok I just saw the airport video, and I'm failing to see what the big deal here is.
Look at it from a different perspective. IW wants to give you the greatest incentive possible to continue playing. They want to tap into your own emotions as a player to give you a reason to fight. What better way to do that than to have you temporarily occupy the shoes of an enemy combatant taking part in an absolutely heinous act?
On top of that nowhere in the video does it demand that you pull the trigger. It looks like you can just follow your AI partners around until the SWAT teams show up near the end.
Personally I have to tip my hat to IW, as what they're doing with that opening level is far and away more impressive than anything they've ever done in a CoD game. They're actually attempting to unsettle the player in the same manner as games like BioShock. This is far more effective than the aftermath of the nuclear bomb in CoD4 ever was.
It's really one of the best anti-terrorist statements I've seen all year.
"Glory for Allah! Glory for the proletariat! Freedom to the oppressed masses!"
All those pretty words boil down to pure murder against one's fellow man. One can argue against the horrors of war, but the simple fact remains that modern Western armies do not engage in this kind of wanton slaughter anymore. Individuals who do are punished severely. Anyone who thinks any kind of terrorist, homegrown or foreign, is "cool" for mowing down helpless masses of people or blowing themselves up in a crowded cafe as a way to 'strike back' at the evils of government is delusional.
Ok I just saw the airport video, and I'm failing to see what the big deal here is.
Look at it from a different perspective. IW wants to give you the greatest incentive possible to continue playing. They want to tap into your own emotions as a player to give you a reason to fight. What better way to do that than to have you temporarily occupy the shoes of an enemy combatant taking part in an absolutely heinous act?
On top of that nowhere in the video does it demand that you pull the trigger. It looks like you can just follow your AI partners around until the SWAT teams show up near the end.
Personally I have to tip my hat to IW, as what they're doing with that opening level is far and away more impressive than anything they've ever done in a CoD game. They're actually attempting to unsettle the player in the same manner as games like BioShock. This is far more effective than the aftermath of the nuclear bomb in CoD4 ever was.
It's really one of the best anti-terrorist statements I've seen all year.
"Glory for Allah! Glory for the proletariat! Freedom to the oppressed masses!"
All those pretty words boil down to pure murder against one's fellow man. One can argue against the horrors of war, but the simple fact remains that modern Western armies do not engage in this kind of wanton slaughter anymore. Individuals who do are punished severely. Anyone who thinks any kind of terrorist, homegrown or foreign, is "cool" for mowing down helpless masses of people or blowing themselves up in a crowded cafe as a way to 'strike back' at the evils of government is delusional.
Well...none of those words mean that without context really.
Activision and IW have to be bracing themselves for the huge shitstorm that's going to errupt over this. There's no way the media is going to ignore this, and all though I can understand the level within the context of the game, we all know the media doesn't put things in perspective.
I'm speaking in generality, but the basis of all terrorism is using fear and violence to achieve a political agenda. When you start reading about the more extreme cases of ethnic cleansing, wanton slaughter of civilians just to cause panic and destabilize governments, or blowing one's self up and killing teens in a cafe, to me all moral 'high ground' is lost. Human beings may fight and kill each other, but there are some lines that shouldn't be crossed. There are rules even in war, even if the rules change over time.
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
I'm sure there are dozens of moral theories or philosophies that make what I say seem trite. I can't help it, it's my gut reaction to seeing dozens of people being murdered who had done no harm personally to the perpetrators. To that end, the CODMW2 intro accomplishes their goal, I do want to kill those bastards who would so violate the lives of others. It is the lesser of two evils.
Didn't the media at large totally ignore the penis in GTA IV's Lost and Damned, yet spazz out on the zero-nudity Mass Effect sex scene? They're really not on the ball with their controversies, or perhaps Geoff Keighley's scorning left them cautious?
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
There are so many problems with this that I can't even begin to articulate them. For your sake, I hope you were using hypebole to get a point across because, if not, uhhhh......I just.....I don't even know.
Ok I just saw the airport video, and I'm failing to see what the big deal here is.
Look at it from a different perspective. IW wants to give you the greatest incentive possible to continue playing. They want to tap into your own emotions as a player to give you a reason to fight. What better way to do that than to have you temporarily occupy the shoes of an enemy combatant taking part in an absolutely heinous act?
On top of that nowhere in the video does it demand that you pull the trigger. It looks like you can just follow your AI partners around until the SWAT teams show up near the end.
Personally I have to tip my hat to IW, as what they're doing with that opening level is far and away more impressive than anything they've ever done in a CoD game. They're actually attempting to unsettle the player in the same manner as games like BioShock. This is far more effective than the aftermath of the nuclear bomb in CoD4 ever was.
It's really one of the best anti-terrorist statements I've seen all year.
"Glory for Allah! Glory for the proletariat! Freedom to the oppressed masses!"
All those pretty words boil down to pure murder against one's fellow man. One can argue against the horrors of war, but the simple fact remains that modern Western armies do not engage in this kind of wanton slaughter anymore. Individuals who do are punished severely. Anyone who thinks any kind of terrorist, homegrown or foreign, is "cool" for mowing down helpless masses of people or blowing themselves up in a crowded cafe as a way to 'strike back' at the evils of government is delusional.
""Glory for Allah!""
huh? how is that...
anyways western governments such as the US hire people like Blackwater, and yes, they Rape and Kill, and definitly pillage.
I think I got that order wrong but you get my point.
If this doesn't apply and I got what your saying confused, disregard.
Ok I just saw the airport video, and I'm failing to see what the big deal here is.
Look at it from a different perspective. IW wants to give you the greatest incentive possible to continue playing. They want to tap into your own emotions as a player to give you a reason to fight. What better way to do that than to have you temporarily occupy the shoes of an enemy combatant taking part in an absolutely heinous act?
On top of that nowhere in the video does it demand that you pull the trigger. It looks like you can just follow your AI partners around until the SWAT teams show up near the end.
Personally I have to tip my hat to IW, as what they're doing with that opening level is far and away more impressive than anything they've ever done in a CoD game. They're actually attempting to unsettle the player in the same manner as games like BioShock. This is far more effective than the aftermath of the nuclear bomb in CoD4 ever was.
It's really one of the best anti-terrorist statements I've seen all year.
"Glory for Allah! Glory for the proletariat! Freedom to the oppressed masses!"
All those pretty words boil down to pure murder against one's fellow man. One can argue against the horrors of war, but the simple fact remains that modern Western armies do not engage in this kind of wanton slaughter anymore. Individuals who do are punished severely. Anyone who thinks any kind of terrorist, homegrown or foreign, is "cool" for mowing down helpless masses of people or blowing themselves up in a crowded cafe as a way to 'strike back' at the evils of government is delusional.
""Glory for Allah!""
huh? how is that...
anyways western governments such as the US hire people like Blackwater, and yes, they Rape and Kill, and definitly pillage.
I think I got that order wrong but you get my point.
If this doesn't apply and I got what your saying confused, disregard.
Yes, they do. You also seemed to have missed what I said. I said western armies do not tolerate the slaughter of civilians, not that it never occurs. Black Water was withdrawn from combat roles in Iraq, and human rights violators at Abu Girab were court marshaled and punished. Western armies police their own. To put it another way, war crimes occurred in Vietnam, the purpose of Vietnam was not to commit war crimes, and those were found guilty were punished. The goal of terrorism is to murder to achieve political goals.
When terrorists start holding trials for those who murder women and children, I'll make sure to take note.
No one is saying that war isn't awful, but that, whether you consider it hypocritical or not, modern armies are expected to abide by the rules of war.
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
There are so many problems with this that I can't even begin to articulate them. For your sake, I hope you were using hypebole to get a point across because, if not, uhhhh......I just.....I don't even know.
By all means, articulate them. I 100% agree with manwiththemachinegun. People that intentionally blow up civilians as some sort of means to ANY end shouldn't be allowed to live. There are some universal wrongs IMO, and I'm not religious at all. I don't really see any way to defend actions like that.
Let's be honest here, IW didn't do that killing civilians thing to make any real point. This isn't some niche artsy game, it's a mainstream game trying to get the headlines in order to make more sales. End of.
And I'd also say they timed it pretty well, what with the furore of no dedicated servers and no mods.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Let's be honest here, IW didn't do that killing civilians thing to make any real point. This isn't some niche artsy game, it's a mainstream game trying to get the headlines in order to make more sales. End of.
And I'd also say they timed it pretty well, what with the furore of no dedicated servers and no mods.
Yeah, just like how there was absolutely no scene in CoD4 that was remotely powerful or artistic
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
There are so many problems with this that I can't even begin to articulate them. For your sake, I hope you were using hypebole to get a point across because, if not, uhhhh......I just.....I don't even know.
By all means, articulate them. I 100% agree with manwiththemachinegun. People that intentionally blow up civilians as some sort of means to ANY end shouldn't be allowed to live. There are some universal wrongs IMO, and I'm not religious at all. I don't really see any way to defend actions like that.
I'm not about to get into it in depth, espescially not in here, but I will say that thinking of your enemies as subhuman or "mad animals" is, in a word, one of the bigger problems with the world as a whole today.
Because no matter how you think of someone, they are still a human being and calling them otherwise is like denying that you are breathing oxygen right now.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be killed or otherwise punished, quite the opposite actually. I just want people to acknowledge that when they do punish them, they aren't shooting squirrels with BB guns, they are killing humans which are essentially just like you and me (crazed fanatacism and murdererousness* notwithstanding).
They are emphatically bad people, but people none the less and pretending that they aren't is not only delusional and idiotic, it's downright dangerous.
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
There are so many problems with this that I can't even begin to articulate them. For your sake, I hope you were using hypebole to get a point across because, if not, uhhhh......I just.....I don't even know.
Well, let me know if you consider this to be the act of a human being. I'm going to censor this because these are some of the most appealing acts of barbarity I have ever heard confirmed so far as terrorism is concerned.
Raping pregnant women to death with bayonets by rebels in Africa. Often done by children, and frequently joke about their kill counts or how families desperately tried to protect each other.
Torturing and murdering civilians, while hacking them to bits in Indian by Islamic extremists. Selling captured children into sex slavery is also popular.
Hunting down and murdering the families of police officers and soldiers in South America by FARC to demoralize them.
The ramming of two jet air liners into the World Trade Centers, killing thousands who had nothing to do with their grievances.
Do I think the free world with banners blaring should make war on these countries to fix all their problems? Don't be absurd, of course not. But would I support the armies of those nations in grinding out and exterminating those terrorist groups? Yes.
These were all appalling acts of wanton slaughter and cruelty are not the act of thinking, rational human beings, but of beasts. It would be inhuman of me to not get angry at kind of evil. I don't care what the reasons are, it pisses me off.
At some point, whether these individuals were raised in a culture of violence or not, one has to say enough and stop it.
That's why I think the opening of Modern Warfare 2 is wonderful, it makes me angry. Only good media can get an emotional reaction out of me.
Edit: In response to your post. I understand what you're getting at. I'm not saying people should be gungho about wiping out different sects, only that when man's inhumanity to man reaches a certain point, you lose the privileges of civilization that you are so fervently trying to tear down.
Let's be honest here, IW didn't do that killing civilians thing to make any real point. This isn't some niche artsy game, it's a mainstream game trying to get the headlines in order to make more sales. End of.
And I'd also say they timed it pretty well, what with the furore of no dedicated servers and no mods.
Yeah, just like how there was absolutely no scene in CoD4 that was remotely powerful or artistic
I'm not discounting that, i'm saying the reasoning for that part of the game is purely for the headlines value. Come on, face facts.. this isn't the gaming equivalent of Platoon.. this is the gaming equivalent of Die Hard, sure it's fun but the idea that it's some grand artistic venture is a joke.
GrimReaper on
PSN | Steam
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
This will be the last I have to say about it because if you don't understand after that, then it's not worth talking about and I really don't want to shit up the MW2 thread with, you know, heated debate.
As a crypto-conservative, I have to agree with that. We shouldn't ignore that part of humanity is something very dark, not that would mean condoning it.
That's fair enough. I simply believe a human can lose the natural rights which is owed by society through flagrant and vile abuse of his fellows.
To put it another way, there was a diary of a child soldier I once read. He'd done ethnic cleansing, tortured people, lost his family, the whole deal. He was rescued and rehabilitated. His village had a story they'd tell, an impossible choice moral. You find a monkey and he tells you, "If you don't kill me, I'll kill your father. If you kill me, I'll kill your mother." He never had an answer before the war. He'd always say, I don't know. His answer after the war?
"I'd kill the monkey, even if it meant losing my mother, so it could never hurt anyone else again."
There was a pretty funny comment on NeoGAF.
"When I first saw the MW2 spoiler, I was like "wow, that's kinda ballsy and interesting" then I remembered Resident Evil 5 has you killing Africans decked out in tribal gear.
RE5 wins if only because it probably had a single Japanese guy saying "This game is an Africa? uhhhh, guys attacking you with spears with tribal masks n' shit!" MW2 probably has a bunch of writers working around the clock trying to think of ways to penetrate your emotions with its rock hard narrative cock and spray consequence all over your face and mouth."
Makes it seem more like a tasteless marketing gimmick to me. The modern, interactive equivalent of those cheesy '50s horror flicks saying, "people with nervous disorders or heart conditions should leave the theater."
Anyway, IW is still casting Cold War era bad guys as the terrorists, so this doesn't strike me as the kind of serious, provocative depiction of modern warfare that was promised by Six Days in Fallujah.
Zoku Gojira on
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
Makes it seem more like a tasteless marketing gimmick to me. The modern, interactive equivalent of those cheesy '50s horror flicks saying, "people with nervous disorders or heart conditions should leave the theater."
Anyway, IW is still casting Cold War era bad guys as the terrorists, so this doesn't strike me as the kind of serious, provocative depiction of modern warfare that was promised by Six Days in Fallujah.
Eh, to be honest I doubt Six Days in Fallujah was going to be a serious, provocative depiction of warfare either. As for the topic at hand, I'm pretty much siding with GrimReaper here. You'll forgive me if I don't see this as being as "hugely meaningful" as I'm supposed to.
Not much different than people that skip cutscenes in other games.
Yeah, taking part in interactive gameplay is not much different from passively watching a cutscene. Very well observed.
Also, I must not have noticed all those disclaimers in front of the cutscenes in other games. Probably because they're not there.
Plenty of other games have had them. Conker's BFD did.
This is like people thinking that Perfect Dark for the N64 had blood for the sake of press. No, it had blood splatter on walls because that's what happens when you shoot people
I don't see how this is so wrong when people playing this game are already spending all the time shooting other humans in the face. Either you accept killing other people in video games, or you don't.
I don't see how this is so wrong when people playing this game are already spending all the time shooting other humans in the face. Either you accept killing other people in video games, or you don't.
Shooting other humans carrying weapons in the face before they shoot you in the face.
Not shooting travelers on holiday, then shooting them again while they try to drag their wounded relative to safety.
Reserving judgment for now, but to suggest there's no difference, or an insignificant difference there is rubbish.
Zoku Gojira on
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
Posts
I definitely think that's true - video games are just kind of seen as mindless enjoyment (by gamers and non-gamers alike), rather than an attempt at art or any kind of message. IW is obviously trying to change that by putting something as powerful as this into the game.
People take exception to video games because the player is the one taking the actions, and it's an exception that is hard to ignore. There is a big difference between watching civilians being murdered in a movie, and actually aiming down the sights at them in a video game. That's not to say that this makes the latter any less acceptable - if anything, it makes the images that much more disturbing and powerful, that much more able to get the point across, and I think it's obvious that Infinity Ward is aware of this.
And while I know I said that there is a difference between violence in a movie, and actually being the perpetrator (regardless of context), you can't ignore movies and shows with anti-heroes, where the main character partakes in seriously immoral activity, and yet we root for him/her anyway. There's not too much of a difference between watching American Psycho and playing this part of MW2.
Is it disturbing? Yes. Is it over the top? Yes.
That's the point.
Anyway, apparently the level is optional. A voluntary peek into the madness, in that sense I'm cool with it.
Optional? What like at some point you can open a menu and select a level basically called "Shoot some dudes at the Airport"? That seems weird.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6238205.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3
I don't have problem with criticizing their point.
Anyway, I think the option of playing the 'scene' makes it even more effective, in my opinion. Being a part of it would be terrifying, even sickening, and they are obviously just trying to make you care that much more about the whole 'cause.'
By 'cause,' I mean the counter-terrorist cause, not the terrorist one. Meaning, it makes you want to stop them that much more - having seen it from a first person perspective.
It's really one of the best anti-terrorist statements I've seen all year.
"Glory for Allah! Glory for the proletariat! Freedom to the oppressed masses!"
All those pretty words boil down to pure murder against one's fellow man. One can argue against the horrors of war, but the simple fact remains that modern Western armies do not engage in this kind of wanton slaughter anymore. Individuals who do are punished severely. Anyone who thinks any kind of terrorist, homegrown or foreign, is "cool" for mowing down helpless masses of people or blowing themselves up in a crowded cafe as a way to 'strike back' at the evils of government is delusional.
Well...none of those words mean that without context really.
Terrorists who flagrantly defy these norms are no longer human beings in my mind, they're mad animals who need to be put down. I don't care for what cause it is. One has to earn the right to be human in my view, and that right can be lost by one's deeds.
I'm sure there are dozens of moral theories or philosophies that make what I say seem trite. I can't help it, it's my gut reaction to seeing dozens of people being murdered who had done no harm personally to the perpetrators. To that end, the CODMW2 intro accomplishes their goal, I do want to kill those bastards who would so violate the lives of others. It is the lesser of two evils.
There are so many problems with this that I can't even begin to articulate them. For your sake, I hope you were using hypebole to get a point across because, if not, uhhhh......I just.....I don't even know.
""Glory for Allah!""
huh? how is that...
anyways western governments such as the US hire people like Blackwater, and yes, they Rape and Kill, and definitly pillage.
I think I got that order wrong but you get my point.
If this doesn't apply and I got what your saying confused, disregard.
I still think it was pretty well-established that these are some bad fucking dudes, but hey, whatever. It's optional, so that's not too bad.
Just incase anyone was wondering. An addendum.
Yes, they do. You also seemed to have missed what I said. I said western armies do not tolerate the slaughter of civilians, not that it never occurs. Black Water was withdrawn from combat roles in Iraq, and human rights violators at Abu Girab were court marshaled and punished. Western armies police their own. To put it another way, war crimes occurred in Vietnam, the purpose of Vietnam was not to commit war crimes, and those were found guilty were punished. The goal of terrorism is to murder to achieve political goals.
When terrorists start holding trials for those who murder women and children, I'll make sure to take note.
No one is saying that war isn't awful, but that, whether you consider it hypocritical or not, modern armies are expected to abide by the rules of war.
By all means, articulate them. I 100% agree with manwiththemachinegun. People that intentionally blow up civilians as some sort of means to ANY end shouldn't be allowed to live. There are some universal wrongs IMO, and I'm not religious at all. I don't really see any way to defend actions like that.
And I'd also say they timed it pretty well, what with the furore of no dedicated servers and no mods.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Yeah, just like how there was absolutely no scene in CoD4 that was remotely powerful or artistic
I'm not about to get into it in depth, espescially not in here, but I will say that thinking of your enemies as subhuman or "mad animals" is, in a word, one of the bigger problems with the world as a whole today.
Because no matter how you think of someone, they are still a human being and calling them otherwise is like denying that you are breathing oxygen right now.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be killed or otherwise punished, quite the opposite actually. I just want people to acknowledge that when they do punish them, they aren't shooting squirrels with BB guns, they are killing humans which are essentially just like you and me (crazed fanatacism and murdererousness* notwithstanding).
They are emphatically bad people, but people none the less and pretending that they aren't is not only delusional and idiotic, it's downright dangerous.
* I hope
Well, let me know if you consider this to be the act of a human being. I'm going to censor this because these are some of the most appealing acts of barbarity I have ever heard confirmed so far as terrorism is concerned.
Torturing and murdering civilians, while hacking them to bits in Indian by Islamic extremists. Selling captured children into sex slavery is also popular.
Hunting down and murdering the families of police officers and soldiers in South America by FARC to demoralize them.
The ramming of two jet air liners into the World Trade Centers, killing thousands who had nothing to do with their grievances.
Do I think the free world with banners blaring should make war on these countries to fix all their problems? Don't be absurd, of course not. But would I support the armies of those nations in grinding out and exterminating those terrorist groups? Yes.
These were all appalling acts of wanton slaughter and cruelty are not the act of thinking, rational human beings, but of beasts. It would be inhuman of me to not get angry at kind of evil. I don't care what the reasons are, it pisses me off.
At some point, whether these individuals were raised in a culture of violence or not, one has to say enough and stop it.
That's why I think the opening of Modern Warfare 2 is wonderful, it makes me angry. Only good media can get an emotional reaction out of me.
Edit: In response to your post. I understand what you're getting at. I'm not saying people should be gungho about wiping out different sects, only that when man's inhumanity to man reaches a certain point, you lose the privileges of civilization that you are so fervently trying to tear down.
You got us there.
I'm not discounting that, i'm saying the reasoning for that part of the game is purely for the headlines value. Come on, face facts.. this isn't the gaming equivalent of Platoon.. this is the gaming equivalent of Die Hard, sure it's fun but the idea that it's some grand artistic venture is a joke.
---
I've got a spare copy of Portal, if anyone wants it message me.
Because I agree with you.
The part I take issue with, for reasons stated above, is this:
This will be the last I have to say about it because if you don't understand after that, then it's not worth talking about and I really don't want to shit up the MW2 thread with, you know, heated debate.
To put it another way, there was a diary of a child soldier I once read. He'd done ethnic cleansing, tortured people, lost his family, the whole deal. He was rescued and rehabilitated. His village had a story they'd tell, an impossible choice moral. You find a monkey and he tells you, "If you don't kill me, I'll kill your father. If you kill me, I'll kill your mother." He never had an answer before the war. He'd always say, I don't know. His answer after the war?
"I'd kill the monkey, even if it meant losing my mother, so it could never hurt anyone else again."
Seems reasonable enough to me.
The hell kind of backwards bullshit is that?
=/
for real
"When I first saw the MW2 spoiler, I was like "wow, that's kinda ballsy and interesting" then I remembered Resident Evil 5 has you killing Africans decked out in tribal gear.
RE5 wins if only because it probably had a single Japanese guy saying "This game is an Africa? uhhhh, guys attacking you with spears with tribal masks n' shit!" MW2 probably has a bunch of writers working around the clock trying to think of ways to penetrate your emotions with its rock hard narrative cock and spray consequence all over your face and mouth."
Makes it seem more like a tasteless marketing gimmick to me. The modern, interactive equivalent of those cheesy '50s horror flicks saying, "people with nervous disorders or heart conditions should leave the theater."
Anyway, IW is still casting Cold War era bad guys as the terrorists, so this doesn't strike me as the kind of serious, provocative depiction of modern warfare that was promised by Six Days in Fallujah.
Not much different than people that skip cutscenes in other games.
Yeah, taking part in interactive gameplay is not much different from passively watching a cutscene. Very well observed.
Also, I must not have noticed all those disclaimers in front of the cutscenes in other games. Probably because they're not there.
Eh, to be honest I doubt Six Days in Fallujah was going to be a serious, provocative depiction of warfare either. As for the topic at hand, I'm pretty much siding with GrimReaper here. You'll forgive me if I don't see this as being as "hugely meaningful" as I'm supposed to.
Plenty of other games have had them. Conker's BFD did.
This is like people thinking that Perfect Dark for the N64 had blood for the sake of press. No, it had blood splatter on walls because that's what happens when you shoot people
I don't see how this is so wrong when people playing this game are already spending all the time shooting other humans in the face. Either you accept killing other people in video games, or you don't.
Shooting other humans carrying weapons in the face before they shoot you in the face.
Not shooting travelers on holiday, then shooting them again while they try to drag their wounded relative to safety.
Reserving judgment for now, but to suggest there's no difference, or an insignificant difference there is rubbish.