Most of the people who don't have tank specs likely just don't want to tank. Tanking is a lot of pressure, and if you're bad, it's immediately apparent to the whole group.
Fuck, I wouldn't tank on my warrior if I didn't have to.
Tanking is the only thing in this game that is fun enough to me to keep my attention. I get bored DPSing. Healing is fun too, but nothing comes close to tanking. Of course, I'm a control freak, and I've only ever raided with about 3 other tanks that didn't constantly make me think "Why are they doing all this dumb shit, I should just be tanking."
I can definitely feel that. PuGs could make anybody hate tanking if you had to do it all the time. Especially as a Warrior if you don't have crazy gear. Once in a while I like to tank a pug for a heroic though, just for the fun of it. It helps that I have good enough gear that the bad dpsers who wouldn't assist anyway can't pull off me anyway.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
I actually prefer tanking for PuGs in an absolute sense. Its kind of nice to get appreciation for a job well done which is something you don't get with raiders since its par for the course.
But I don't enjoy the fact that every dungeon takes 30 mins with most pugs instead of 10-15.
I feel you on that Dhalpir. It is nice after tanking for a pug to have people tell you how great you are and what not, since we don't hear that from our guilds who take us for granted. =P I find as long as I know the healer can keep up I just pull so many trash mobs at a time that they have no choice but to AoE and I can keep up the pace pretty good even in pugs.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Just got a new chest and I'm not sure what to enchant it with. Unbuffed I'm at 36.7k hp, 547 def, and 27.2% dodge/19.6% parry. Is straight health with the 275 hp the best way to go, or would 10 stats or 22 def be better?
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Wait, there's a 22 def enchant?
Also, I've been having a blast tanking on my warrior as of late. Hit the defcap for heroics a few days ago, been doing the dailies and the odd ToC whenever I get bored either a) facerolling raids or b) exploiting people's idiocy on the AH. Tanking is fun, there's no doubt. Can't say I enjoy AoE tanking much as a warrior--I've glyphed Cleave and spam that to keep threat, along with a smattering of Devastates and Thunderclaps, but I know I'm doing it the lazy way. Single target tanking is my forte, I guess. Don't find it too difficult, stand and get hit, position accordingly, kite if needs be. Have to say, kiting while holding aggro doesn't seem that hard--don't see why people seem to have difficulties with it on say Onyxia. Not really up to that level of content yet, but I did some in-guild offtanking for Naxx25 last night, it went fairly well. Got some 7.5 pieces, so I've got the 10% bonus damage to Shield Bash, which is nice for a starter heroic tank. It'll be interesting to see where I go with this character.
I think inevitably I'll faction change her to Horde when 3.3 drops so I can dip my grubby little toes in the the new LFG tool, and work my way up through that. If you can do heroics, only the sky's the limit if you're prepared to slog through stuff to get there.
I wouldn't use 22 def on chest unless you're under 540, which you aren't. So then it's 10 stats or 275 health. I got 275 health, just because the trivial threat/dodge you get from the STR/AGI just don't do it for me compared to the bigger chunk of health. Personal preference though.
And yeah, Warrior tanking is very fun. Glyphed cleave is pretty much enough to keep 3 things on you, and if it's a bigger AoE group you can just tab devastate or even just tab and shield slam a guy, then tab and revenge, etc.
Once you get good gear it's much easier. I have so much AP/block value in my raid tanking set that I can hold agro on packs in heroics with just t-clap/shockwave/damage shield dmg. I don't even need to tab through mobs anymore, and that's with using my raiding glyphs (shield wall/last stand/blocking)
I only really started to like tanking when WOTLK changed things up and not only finally gave us some proper tools, but made it fun to be Prot. It's not that it was super hard or anything before, but man the old days seem more like the dark ages in hindsight. I always dreaded tanking a bit.
"Hey! Wanna do Sethekk Halls?" Oh boy! Mobs that fear and drop all aggro and kill the party when I'm helpless.
"Hey! Wanna do Shadow Labs?" Oh boy! A large section where a stealthed rogue can and will one shot my healer before I ever notice him. Like, say, in mid pull.
"Hey! Wanna do Shattered Halls? Oh... hell no!
And of course, this was also back in the day when Prot was the whipping boy when it came to solo stuff. I was Arms because my guild already had lots of main tanks. So all of those were done in a non tank spec, because screw respeccing every day just for dungeon runs.
Now it's fun. Now it's easy. Now I can tank more than 3 guys at once without potentially giving myself an ulcer over the pressure.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Basically tanking as a warrior feels almost as relaxed as the other tanks now with a slight flavour twist towards a bit more active play.
I feel you on that Dhalpir. It is nice after tanking for a pug to have people tell you how great you are and what not, since we don't hear that from our guilds who take us for granted. =P I find as long as I know the healer can keep up I just pull so many trash mobs at a time that they have no choice but to AoE and I can keep up the pace pretty good even in pugs.
Agree with you 100% on that. My warrior (only 70) is specced dps. But, my paladin is a tank. Its nice when you do a clean PUG heroic run and have the group thanking you for coming and saying how good of a job you did. Puts a smile on my face. Have made good PUG raid contacts from running heroics. Was nice the other day when we pugged in a guildless holy paladin for a heroic that had majority 245 gear and close to 29k mana unbuffed. He is now a proud member of Azeroths Most Wanted
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
First time I tanked CoS, we made it to the drake. Funny thing, it was me, two of my old guildies, and two scrub dps. The rogue wasn't bad, he just did his thing, laughed at our banter and generally was doing a bang up job. The DK, on the other hand, was just being a whiny bitch. We get to the Corruptor with a couple of minutes to spare (again, this was my first time tanking this instance, and like the third heroic I'd ever tanked), so halfway through the fight, I just kick the DK, and we give the rogue the mount.
I got lots of angry tells including one "im reporting u"
I laughed in response
unfortunately, the shield didn't drop.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
i've carried three bad DPS through H CoS (by bad I mean sub 1.5k) before. Being a paladin is handy as you have so much reflective and non-AOE-capped AOE damage like Consecrate and Ret Aura, and you can easily top damage done in there even with high DPSers once you count the gauntlet at the end...which I usually do in two pulls total.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
First time I tanked CoS, we made it to the drake. Funny thing, it was me, two of my old guildies, and two scrub dps. The rogue wasn't bad, he just did his thing, laughed at our banter and generally was doing a bang up job. The DK, on the other hand, was just being a whiny bitch. We get to the Corruptor with a couple of minutes to spare (again, this was my first time tanking this instance, and like the third heroic I'd ever tanked), so halfway through the fight, I just kick the DK, and we give the rogue the mount.
I got lots of angry tells including one "im reporting u"
I laughed in response
unfortunately, the shield didn't drop.
Prolly slightly offtopic, but I ran H COS a long time ago and the group had some miscommunication at the mini gauntlet part. We got separated and I died, but they got to and killed the corruptor. I was healer, so They couldnt get back to me. I also won the mount, as we deemed it fair for anyone who needed to roll.
This was like 2 days after hitting 80, recently I did COS again and after completing it got my achieves for reg and heroic and also the northrend reg and heroic dungeon master. A dude had to send me a tell asking how I got the achieves when I had the mount already to remember why. I completely forgot I never finished the damn instance
Warrior DPS is more reliant on a good weapon than most classes. My off set gear is a combination of stuff from ilvl 200 to one piece of 245, with a DMC greatness and decent shit, and I can still only do about 4 to 5k in a raid with full buffs, because all I have for a weapon is the skeezy Edge of Ruin. If you have a blue weapon you're not going to see very good numbers.
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TrynantManiac BrawlerRank 20.100 and full WildRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Yeah, I would say that Warrior DPS is very reliant on (a) good weapon(s). Of course expertise and soft-hit cap are vital as well (dammit my expertise dropped below the cap recently and it HURTS).
I have a love/hate relationship with tanking. I loathe to do a run as a tank in PuGs, but once I actually begin tanking I do find myself having more fun than I would DPSing. Protection is a superbly made spec with easily the most entertaining abilities this side of Shockwave. On the flipside, I like to DPS because it is far less stressful and relaxing than tanking (at least in 5-mans). After all, WoW often is just a lazy grind, and after playing the same dungeons over and over you just want to get it done with and not have to worry about stuff like keeping people alive :P
At the same time, I really would love a challenging 5-man heroic, like pretty much all of the Burning Crusade stuff. The way Wrath is treating 5-man content is horrendous (dead horse?). Non-heroic 5-mans are worthless and the badge system out-gears characters for heroics at the drop of a hat, making everything trivial. Is it too hard to ask for one single challenging encounter without making a damn raid? Uck, sorry about bringing this crap into the Warrior thread, but even the class with what I think to be the most entertaining tanking abilities still gets boring with the content layout in Wrath.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
Well, TOC H is somewhat challenging, and from my brief stint on the PTR, the new icrecrown 5 mans (of which there are 3) are very adequate for challenge.
How challenging should content be when the gear you're using is as good or better than the gear the content gives (especially when the content is of the "PUG it daily" variety and is eligible for the random heroic quest)?
How challenging should content be when the gear you're using is as good or better than the gear the content gives (especially when the content is of the "PUG it daily" variety and is eligible for the random heroic quest)?
Heroics weren't hard even as a new 80 in a group of new 80s, with no raid gear, no epics, even. Now they're an adorable joke, but that's fine when your tank has 2 1/2 times the health of a starting heroic tank.
Two weeks after release, on my second day of running heroics, we did HoL heroic with a paladin healer, everyone in greens and blues, and got the kill his ass in less than two minutes achievement. Achievement. Heroics, this time, haven't been even sort of hard.
How challenging should content be when the gear you're using is as good or better than the gear the content gives (especially when the content is of the "PUG it daily" variety and is eligible for the random heroic quest)?
Heroics weren't hard even as a new 80 in a group of new 80s, with no raid gear, no epics, even. Now they're an adorable joke, but that's fine when your tank has 2 1/2 times the health of a starting heroic tank.
Two weeks after release, on my second day of running heroics, we did HoL heroic with a paladin healer, everyone in greens and blues, and got the kill his ass in less than two minutes achievement. Achievement. Heroics, this time, haven't been even sort of hard.
The question still then just becomes "should content that provides the lowest tier of end game gear be 'hard'?" Again, keeping in mind that this is supposed to be tuned for the average PUG, not "my friends and I who have been playing WoW for five years did X."
they're a complete joke yeah, which is actually quite nice.
but it makes it even more infuriating when people kick you for not being geared or not having a high enough gear score.
for heroics.
I've yelled at a number of people for even ASKING about gearscore in heroic groups.
Fortunately I'm often the tank or healer and in a position to yell at people.
Amusingly, in one run, it was a Hunter in 219-232 gear who was bitching about a paladin in greens/blues. That hunter, because he didn't pay enough attention, and spent too much time skinning shit or simply not DPSing, barely tied the paladin for DPS.
How challenging should content be when the gear you're using is as good or better than the gear the content gives (especially when the content is of the "PUG it daily" variety and is eligible for the random heroic quest)?
Heroics weren't hard even as a new 80 in a group of new 80s, with no raid gear, no epics, even. Now they're an adorable joke, but that's fine when your tank has 2 1/2 times the health of a starting heroic tank.
Two weeks after release, on my second day of running heroics, we did HoL heroic with a paladin healer, everyone in greens and blues, and got the kill his ass in less than two minutes achievement. Achievement. Heroics, this time, haven't been even sort of hard.
The question still then just becomes "should content that provides the lowest tier of end game gear be 'hard'?" Again, keeping in mind that this is supposed to be tuned for the average PUG, not "my friends and I who have been playing WoW for five years did X."
Except that there's a whole other group of dungeons, level 80 normals, that were never important, and could easily be regarded as "the first tier of endgame gear." Those dungeons were never important, and basically never run by anyone for any reason. I wish those level 80 normal dungeons had a place, I guess.
How challenging should content be when the gear you're using is as good or better than the gear the content gives (especially when the content is of the "PUG it daily" variety and is eligible for the random heroic quest)?
Heroics weren't hard even as a new 80 in a group of new 80s, with no raid gear, no epics, even. Now they're an adorable joke, but that's fine when your tank has 2 1/2 times the health of a starting heroic tank.
Two weeks after release, on my second day of running heroics, we did HoL heroic with a paladin healer, everyone in greens and blues, and got the kill his ass in less than two minutes achievement. Achievement. Heroics, this time, haven't been even sort of hard.
The question still then just becomes "should content that provides the lowest tier of end game gear be 'hard'?" Again, keeping in mind that this is supposed to be tuned for the average PUG, not "my friends and I who have been playing WoW for five years did X."
Except that there's a whole other group of dungeons, level 80 normals, that were never important, and could easily be regarded as "the first tier of endgame gear." Those dungeons were never important, and basically never run by anyone for any reason. I wish those level 80 normal dungeons had a place, I guess.
They do. They can be run before level 80. Notice how absolutely no level 80 gear drops in them? And you can only get a small trickle of emblems in them that can be used for level 80 gear. In general, they're balanced for a group of level 78s. However, CoS at the least is problematic for a level 78 tank as the bosses are 82. They can and will crushing blow the shit out of you.
I'd argue that running the level 80 normals isn't the greatest idea for people who aren't 80, since they're very far from the most efficient way to gain experience. I think CoS only has one quest attached to it, for instance. Very few people who are leveling up to 80 are interested in much aside from getting to 80 ASAP.
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Finally got my pimp ass shield off of CoS HC. All I need now are shoulders and my outward look is complete and I can begin fantasizing about what my character'll look like as a Blood Elf come Cataclysm.
It's too bad they used one of the coolest shield graphics for that shield out of CoS. Granted that shield looked too alliancy(tm) for my tastes as a BE Paladin and now Tauren Warrior, but it was still cool.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Didn't you know? On the internet, if you put a tongue out smiley face after saying something rude you're just being cute and sarcastic and it negates a rude comment. At least that's what people think. Of course, Justin probably just knows Senshi isn't going to take it too seriously and thus is actually being playful towards somebody he knows can handle it.
Overanalysis complete.
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Yeah nice poopsocking there, Justin
Edit: fuck I guess that's not what the smiley code is
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Fuck, I wouldn't tank on my warrior if I didn't have to.
I'm gonna be making a write up of how to Solo Old Shit with a Warrior.
I love tanking shit on my warrior, in a group with friends.
But I don't enjoy the fact that every dungeon takes 30 mins with most pugs instead of 10-15.
Also, I've been having a blast tanking on my warrior as of late. Hit the defcap for heroics a few days ago, been doing the dailies and the odd ToC whenever I get bored either a) facerolling raids or b) exploiting people's idiocy on the AH. Tanking is fun, there's no doubt. Can't say I enjoy AoE tanking much as a warrior--I've glyphed Cleave and spam that to keep threat, along with a smattering of Devastates and Thunderclaps, but I know I'm doing it the lazy way. Single target tanking is my forte, I guess. Don't find it too difficult, stand and get hit, position accordingly, kite if needs be. Have to say, kiting while holding aggro doesn't seem that hard--don't see why people seem to have difficulties with it on say Onyxia. Not really up to that level of content yet, but I did some in-guild offtanking for Naxx25 last night, it went fairly well. Got some 7.5 pieces, so I've got the 10% bonus damage to Shield Bash, which is nice for a starter heroic tank. It'll be interesting to see where I go with this character.
I think inevitably I'll faction change her to Horde when 3.3 drops so I can dip my grubby little toes in the the new LFG tool, and work my way up through that. If you can do heroics, only the sky's the limit if you're prepared to slog through stuff to get there.
fuck yeah horde
And yeah, Warrior tanking is very fun. Glyphed cleave is pretty much enough to keep 3 things on you, and if it's a bigger AoE group you can just tab devastate or even just tab and shield slam a guy, then tab and revenge, etc.
Once you get good gear it's much easier. I have so much AP/block value in my raid tanking set that I can hold agro on packs in heroics with just t-clap/shockwave/damage shield dmg. I don't even need to tab through mobs anymore, and that's with using my raiding glyphs (shield wall/last stand/blocking)
"Hey! Wanna do Sethekk Halls?" Oh boy! Mobs that fear and drop all aggro and kill the party when I'm helpless.
"Hey! Wanna do Shadow Labs?" Oh boy! A large section where a stealthed rogue can and will one shot my healer before I ever notice him. Like, say, in mid pull.
"Hey! Wanna do Shattered Halls? Oh... hell no!
And of course, this was also back in the day when Prot was the whipping boy when it came to solo stuff. I was Arms because my guild already had lots of main tanks. So all of those were done in a non tank spec, because screw respeccing every day just for dungeon runs.
Now it's fun. Now it's easy. Now I can tank more than 3 guys at once without potentially giving myself an ulcer over the pressure.
Agree with you 100% on that. My warrior (only 70) is specced dps. But, my paladin is a tank. Its nice when you do a clean PUG heroic run and have the group thanking you for coming and saying how good of a job you did. Puts a smile on my face. Have made good PUG raid contacts from running heroics. Was nice the other day when we pugged in a guildless holy paladin for a heroic that had majority 245 gear and close to 29k mana unbuffed. He is now a proud member of Azeroths Most Wanted
Depending on general server IQ, PuGs aren't worth the headache.
get your own starcraft 2 signature at sc2sig.com
I got lots of angry tells including one "im reporting u"
I laughed in response
unfortunately, the shield didn't drop.
Prolly slightly offtopic, but I ran H COS a long time ago and the group had some miscommunication at the mini gauntlet part. We got separated and I died, but they got to and killed the corruptor. I was healer, so They couldnt get back to me. I also won the mount, as we deemed it fair for anyone who needed to roll.
This was like 2 days after hitting 80, recently I did COS again and after completing it got my achieves for reg and heroic and also the northrend reg and heroic dungeon master. A dude had to send me a tell asking how I got the achieves when I had the mount already to remember why. I completely forgot I never finished the damn instance
Also I haven't done the soloing shit write up yet but I soloed Magister's Terrace reg pretty easily yesterday.
I am very glad for this. I desperately want an orb of the sin'dorei.
I mean my weapon is still blue (from heroics) so would that make a difference? It seems like if I dont Bladestorm I do like 1600.
I should also note I have about 25% Armor Pen.
I have a love/hate relationship with tanking. I loathe to do a run as a tank in PuGs, but once I actually begin tanking I do find myself having more fun than I would DPSing. Protection is a superbly made spec with easily the most entertaining abilities this side of Shockwave. On the flipside, I like to DPS because it is far less stressful and relaxing than tanking (at least in 5-mans). After all, WoW often is just a lazy grind, and after playing the same dungeons over and over you just want to get it done with and not have to worry about stuff like keeping people alive :P
At the same time, I really would love a challenging 5-man heroic, like pretty much all of the Burning Crusade stuff. The way Wrath is treating 5-man content is horrendous (dead horse?). Non-heroic 5-mans are worthless and the badge system out-gears characters for heroics at the drop of a hat, making everything trivial. Is it too hard to ask for one single challenging encounter without making a damn raid? Uck, sorry about bringing this crap into the Warrior thread, but even the class with what I think to be the most entertaining tanking abilities still gets boring with the content layout in Wrath.
Aces Wild is a pretty stellar game.
Blog, Playing Rules; Let's Play Demon's Souls; My Backlog
Heroics weren't hard even as a new 80 in a group of new 80s, with no raid gear, no epics, even. Now they're an adorable joke, but that's fine when your tank has 2 1/2 times the health of a starting heroic tank.
Two weeks after release, on my second day of running heroics, we did HoL heroic with a paladin healer, everyone in greens and blues, and got the kill his ass in less than two minutes achievement. Achievement. Heroics, this time, haven't been even sort of hard.
but it makes it even more infuriating when people kick you for not being geared or not having a high enough gear score.
for heroics.
I've yelled at a number of people for even ASKING about gearscore in heroic groups.
Fortunately I'm often the tank or healer and in a position to yell at people.
Amusingly, in one run, it was a Hunter in 219-232 gear who was bitching about a paladin in greens/blues. That hunter, because he didn't pay enough attention, and spent too much time skinning shit or simply not DPSing, barely tied the paladin for DPS.
Except that there's a whole other group of dungeons, level 80 normals, that were never important, and could easily be regarded as "the first tier of endgame gear." Those dungeons were never important, and basically never run by anyone for any reason. I wish those level 80 normal dungeons had a place, I guess.
God, I love this shield.
:P
way to kick him off his pedestal...
not really sure that was called for
Overanalysis complete.
Edit: fuck I guess that's not what the smiley code is
I understand how you feel.
Glory day, Dhalphir calling out someone on being a condescending cock.
What is going on. My world is all mixed it.