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Cats and dogs living together!
jhunter46
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So our house got broken into yesterday afternoon. They kicked open the front door, took the TV, 360, Wii, PS3 and some other electronics. Luckily my cats hid under the bed and someone saw them drive away and called the cops. They were caught and we got our stuff back.
We don't live in a bad neighborhood or anything but I'm definitely thinking more about security now. Until we can afford to put a security door and an alarm system in, I'm thinking it might be the right time to get a dog.
My only issue is the cats. I'm not so much worried about them getting along as I am about putting in a dog door. We have inside cats because of coyotes and cars and any number of other things that aren't good for cats. Does anyone have any experience with dog doors and inside cats?
We don't live in a bad neighborhood or anything but I'm definitely thinking more about security now. Until we can afford to put a security door and an alarm system in, I'm thinking it might be the right time to get a dog.
My only issue is the cats. I'm not so much worried about them getting along as I am about putting in a dog door. We have inside cats because of coyotes and cars and any number of other things that aren't good for cats. Does anyone have any experience with dog doors and inside cats?
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From another point of view, what is it about a dog that makes you think it'll work as a security measure? If you think a dog is cheaper than security, you may want to do the math. Yes, security isn't cute and fun, but if you want an actual guard dog you'll have to train your dog like a guard dog. You could easily end up with a pooch that wants to play with an intruder, or that simply is killed by the intruder.
If these are kids breaking into houses for fun a loud dog might deter them. But dogs don't deter most criminals.
Motion activated floodlights, some lamp timers, and a good deadbolt are probably more effective (and a lot cheaper!).
EDIT: To answer your specific question, there are dog doors that only unlock when a transponder comes close and those would theoretically work to keep your cats inside, but the cats might learn just to go out with the dog and they cost several hundred dollars. Also, I am assuming you have a fenced in yard... otherwise a dog door is highly irresponsible.
Our neighborhood has plenty of open park space so taking a dog out for walks wouldn't be an issue, there'd just be that 8 hour period where we wouldn't be home during the day four days a week.
Not that I'm a criminal myself, but I'd be a lot more likely to be deterred by a dog than an alarm or floodlight.
Deadbolt? I'll break a window. Lights? Pssh, by the time someone sees "a shadowy figure" I'm gone with your PSWii60 to sell it for crack.
A dog? Back the fuck up. Those things make a shitload of noise, unlike a quick window-smash. In addition, I have no clue whether or not that's a nice polite family pooch who goes hyper for the doorbell, or a JESUS CHRIST IT'S A [strike]LION[/strike] WOLF GET IN THE CAR that's barking at me.
Security aside for a moment. Do you want a dog? They're a fair bit of work and you're talking about an animal that will live for at least a decade. Don't make a spur-of-the-moment decision just based on one event.
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We had talked about getting a dog last year but had decided to hold off until we were both done with school. Given the current events and my pending graduation next spring speeding up the decision seems like a good idea.
Go get a dog, get an XXL waterbowl to leave on your porch and don't put much effort into teaching them not to bark at noises.
If you plan on doing anything more than that in order to make the dog make you feel safer I would think very carefully about what you are doing.
However Dogs as a deterrent for intruders depends on a lot of factors.
a) Breed of dog. If you are really wanting a dog that will give criminals a second thought about breaking into your home I would go for a large breed, and probably choose something that is considered to be a more aggressive breed. Keep in mind, the following breeds only SEEM more aggressive because of how they are portrayed, any dog can be as docile or aggressive as the owner trains it to be.
Pit bulls, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Chows, Akitas These breeds make a big impression just from social stigma alone. (BTW these breeds also make some of the most lovable and loyal dogs out there)
b) Any serious criminal that makes a habit of breaking into homes is going to plan for the home potentially having a dog. I would recommend taking a look at a show called "It takes a Thief" on Discovery. The entire show is about beefing up security in your home. They have an ex-thief literally break into these peoples houses (with their permission of course) To illustrate how easy/quickly a home can be compromised and looted. A lot of the homes shown also had dogs which the owner's thought would be good guard dogs until the thief merely pet them/offered a treat and carried on.
c) This also pertains to the above. Unless you actually train your dog to alert you to intruders, and train it to distinguish what is and is not an intruder your dog could either end up alerting you to everybody who comes near your home (Can be very irritating for you and neighbors) or will treat everyone as a guest (Friendly sniff to the thief and let him go about his way)
d) Getting a dog is a large responsibility (This part stems from me working in an emergency vet hospital) IF you do get a dog you will need to care for it, take it to your vet regularly, have it vaccinated, groom it (depending on breed) and generally be responsible for another beings life for anywhere from 12-16 years.
e) Security system is probably cheaper over the long run, but the companionship from a Dog is hard to compare.
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Territoriality is what I think you mean and it is a very different trait than aggression.
Aggression is largely determined by genetics and can be modified by training but I would hope that nobody here on PA would ever consider trying to train aggression into a dog as you basically have to abuse it.
The other option besides a large dog is to get a smaller dog with a deep, loud bark and keep all your windows covered when you aren't home.
Only get a dog if you actually want a dog.
If you want a security system, get a security system.
Don't expect the dog to protect the house from burglars anymore then you would expect the security system to play a rousing game of fetch. Unless a dog is actually trained as a guard dog, they are easily distracted and befriended with a handful of dog snacks.
No I'm talking about aggression here. A couple of those breeds tend to have issues with territory (Chow and Akita are very much one person breeds) But for a few of those (The pitbull, doberman and rotty) I most certainly mean aggression.
While true that a couple of those breeds were bred initially for aggression (Pit bull for pit fighting, doberman for protecting traveling salesmen- though i suppose that could be seen as more a territorial issue) , these days reputable breeders have managed to breed out a lot of those behaviors (Something reputable breeders are very proud of, see: Dobermans). Now despite the fact that by nature they are not aggressive (these days) through abuse they most certainly can be but I would hope that if he is trying to get a dog for security it would be more as an early warning system and not as something that would attack an intruder.
Unfortunately there are still a large quantity of backyard breeders and breeders who specifically are looking to make an aggressive dog. There are also a large (very large) quantity of dogs in shelters that have been abused and may be aggressive because of this.
Mostly when I was talking about how those breeds Seemed aggressive, I was referring to the fact that the general populous tends to be very wary of them because they make the news when people are attacked by them. In my experience smaller dogs are far far more likely to attack people than larger dogs, but when larger dogs DO attack the results is more horrific (hence why it makes the news). So people tend to have a natural fear of pitbulls, dobermans, rottweilers, etc. In reality these breeds are no more prone to violence than any other large breed of dog, but their history makes them out to be these vicious animals when instead they can make very loving, playful, loyal pets.
As for a small dog with a large bark. Get a beagle. I guarantee that everyone and their mother will hear it
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not to mention that if you're getting a dog as a security measure, you're probably going to want a largish one that's going to need lots of exercise, and no matter how scary your dog is, it's not going to be much use when you come home from daily walkies to find your front window smashed and your xbox gone.
also: I have a dog. it's terribly aggressive, and will bark at anything that so much as walks past our house. it's an adult lab cross kelpie, which I imagine could be pretty intimidating to some junkie kid, but it didn't do jack shit when we were broken into earlier this year.
if you want a dog, and have the time, money and energy to own a dog, by all means get one. but don't consider it an alternative to a proper alarm system or home security.
Aggression can be divided up based on the circumstances in which it happens and the species it is directed at.
There are lots of dogs that are aggressive towards things they see as prey but not towards other dogs or people. There are other dogs that are aggressive towards dogs but not prey animals or people. Other dogs are aggressive towards people. And a very very few dogs are aggressive towards all three.
There are some dogs that are aggressive because they have had bad experiences with the target of their aggression and are trying to prevent that bad experience from happening again (fear aggression). There are dogs that are aggressive because they are protecting something (resource guarding or territoriality depending on what they are guarding). And there are dogs that are aggressive because that is what they are bred for (think terriers towards rodents, pit bulls towards other dogs, ect).
There are no breeds of dog that were bred for human aggression in the last category (just human aggression with no cause). Therefore all human aggressive dogs are going to be fear aggressive or guarding something. A fear aggressive dog is unlikely to do anything to an intruder until they are leaving (these dogs classically bite people on the butt or the back of the legs. Therefore the only dog that is actually likely to do anything to stop a burglary is a territorial dog. The level of territoriality is genetic, if the dog isn't territorial you are unlikely to be able to make it become territorial. That is why people bred certain breeds to be LGDs and guard dogs.
I do agree with you that perception is more important than actual aggression level but that isn't what I disagreed with in your first post. Genetics play a huge role in aggression of all types. For instance, pitbulls have high levels of dog aggression but negligible levels of human aggression because they were not bred as guarding dogs. This is one reason that most of the physically sound pitbulls rescued from fighting rings can be rehabilitated as pets. They may never be okay around other dogs but many of them are soft and cuddly to all people despite the abuse they have gone through.
Beagles are very loud but also pretty high pitched. If you want a little dog that sounds like a big dog pitch is more important than volume.
*Edit* Much as I absolutely LOVE English Bulldogs, please don't get one. They are very prone to medical issues and unless you have $Texas to drop on the various procedures you would need to correct most of their hereditary issues I would highly recommend against getting one. Despite how absolutely lovable/goofy they are.
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the word you are looking for is territiorial. Our dog will bark at anyone who walks past her yard or comes up to the door.
she has a mean as hell bark too ever since she was a 20lb puppy she had a big dog bark.. if anyone actually broke into the house though she would likley bark at them while hiding under the table
Our neighbors have an incredibly barky dog. It's on the quiet side, but if it's outside all it does is bark bark bark bark bark. Sometimes it even barks inside for no reason (we share a wall), and when it does we think "thank goodness that's a quiet dog" and not "I wonder if someone is breaking in."
But yeah, your neighbors will likely ignore the dog if it barks all the time and it is more of a deterring kids looking for an easy target than actual protection.
The decision to get a dog should be separate from your feelings of violation and a need for security.
To answer your question, though, the cats I've seen in places with dog doors use the dog door. Most were fine, a couple disappeared because of it (coyotes suspected there, incidentally). It's hard to stop a cat from mingling with the outside if there's a way for it to do so.
Regarding cats and dogs, I would go to the pound/animal shelter and get an adult dog. Big, black dogs are always a good bet because people have hang-ups about black animals.
If you get a doberman, rottweiler, pit bull, German shepherd, etc, from a breeder, then be prepared to do an exhaustive search to avoid crappy breeders who produce dogs with unstable temperaments, structurally unsound dogs, and dogs coming from lines full of genetic pit falls (hip dysplasia, wobbler's syndrome, etc). .
Also get a basset hound. They look adorable but when they bark it sounds like a very big dog. When we still had a basset, people thought we had a great dane in the back yard.
that said, if you can find one that's cat friendly, definitely get a pit... they're absolutely loving towards humans, and scary as hell to undesirables
this is my dog:
people literally cross the street sometimes to avoid me, and delivery men avoid coming into my apartment
If you do actually want a dog and not a pure security system, and if you want one that will bark anytime someone shows up as a warning, don't get an Akita...they only tend to bark if something is really wrong. If you want one that will really guard, then I'll throw a vote in for Akitas
My reaction to that is not fear but D'AWWWWWWWWWWW
I would not avoid that.
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Like the episode where the guy steals the dog that was supposed to be there to protect the house. That was pretty much the most awesome thing ever.
Heh heh, yeah, we had a basset when I was growing up, and she sounded just like the German shepherd next door. They're wonderful pets, too. Super sweet and good with kids, though prone to various purebreed health problems, especially hip and back problems (go figure). They aren't terribly smart dogs, though, and tend to be huge food thieves.
In the cat and dogs part. We currently have 2 cats and a dog. We dont use a doggie door. Some nights he wants to sleep inside and other nights he wants to go play outside so we let him. He has a collar that wont let him go past 1m in front of the front door. He is a good boy, sometimes we have to get up to let him in or out, not very often though. The biggest part is training. Take him to doggie preschool. They taught us all this stuff about how to toilet train him. He will use the cat's litter tray if he is inside only as a last resort. He will normally come find me and get let outside whenever he needs to go.
The cats are always insde. When we first moved here 2 years ago, one of my cats got out and got ran over within an hour. We live near a fairly busy road and they weren't used to it. So yeah, we're not letting them out. It works pretty well, that setup.
Firstly, dog doors are more trouble then they're worth. They're a crutch used by lazy people who aren't responsible dog owners, and raccoons love them.
Secondly, I don't know exactly what you're expecting from a dog. The vast majority of dogs are very rapidly won over by strangers and are not capable of doing much more then alerting an owner of the presence of an intruder. A beagle for example will bay at anything that seems out of the ordinary (unfamiliar people, strange noises), but mostly out of anxious curiosity for new smells or a chase. Most breeds don't bark for territorial reasons; larger ones bark for attention, and smaller ones bark to try to assert their dominance in a world that is much bigger then they are.
The few dogs that will actually "guard" people or places require extensive training and tend to be larger breeds with substantial exercise requirements. Short of a yorkie (who will just bark at everything, even new furniture... they're not very bright creatures), most dogs without training will welcome a stranger who seems friendly.
I disagree, most criminals would think twice entering a home with a dog, it's just a whole lot of trouble they don't need. Especially a visibly large noisy dog.
edit: and as mentioned above, training is key. Bark whenever something happens, stop barking when threat has been verified by pack leader (you) to be nothing.
edit: I was a bit hasty before, of course training would also include not barking at everything in a residential neighborhood, but stuff like people at your door, in your yard and stuff is barking material. Though, my experiences are based on dogs living in a countryside house used as both protection and pets. They should bark, it's their job.
Yeah pretty much all this... Dogs don't make good security guards...
C'mon, get realistic. We're not talking about keeping a well trained professional thief out of a house, we're talking about providing deterrence against a random smash and grab, which is what the OP suffered. Kicking in a door and stealing hardware wasn't a planned crime. You can't stop a seriously planned crime on your home unless you're into fort knox levels of security - determined thieves will get in. What the OP wants is something to keep the casual criminal away.
For a good breed that can be easily trained in guard duties, but is also good with family, I recommend the Cane Corso. Not only are they excellent dogs when well trained, they're absolutely massive and they're a relatively uncommon breed. My wife worked at a vet where there was a Cane Corso staying long term and it was easily 100+ pounds.
Like most purebreeds, they have a downside. Corsos can have some nasty greyhoundesque hip troubles, but it's treatable in most cases.
As far as dog doors are concerned, they're something I think you need to not work with. They're a means of ingress for a whole lot of things you want to keep out of your house.
"Movement! PERSON? YES, PERSON! Can I run to them? NO! (BARK) HEY! (BARK) I CAN'T REACH YOU, COME OVER HERE SO I CAN SMELL YOU! (BARK BARK) WHY AREN'T YOU COMING OVER HERE? I CAN'T COME TO YOU! (Scratching at glass, whine BARK)"
He liked to be sent out back at night, so we'd just let him out. He behaved himself and only barked at people walking down the alley.
Then we got a notice that the next door neighbor's son had complained about his barking from a cop, so we had to keep him inside that night.
The same night, the next door neighbor got robbed. By the son. Because our dog was the only one on the block, and he wouldn't be able to draw attention by barking at a bunch of men walking into the house.
We ignored any barking complaints after that.
Like I said, they don't really prevent robberies in progress - because they'll either be able to be bribed or just be shot easily. However, they do intimdate people from attempting it in the first place. Preventing robbers is about making it less easy and more risky, because they're only going to go for what's easy, fast, and predictable.
First of all, I wouldn't worry about a doggy door. If you train him to either stay inside or outside while you're gone, he'll naturally become accustomed to the routine. If you get a doggy door, the cats WILL use it.
Don't put out newspaper or such for him to go on while you're gone though. That will just confuse him if you want him to go outside when you're home, and cleaning up dogshit (especially big dogshit) drenched in urine gets old fast.
You can have a good guard dog, or a good family dog. It's hard to have a cuddly pet of pure muscle trained to tear out throats. On the upside, dogs are a great theft deterrent by themselves; they don't need to be trained guard dogs. They just need to be big and loud.
If you DO get an alarm, you can train him easily to get pissed when he hears the alarm go off. It'll be a natural reaction anyway, most likely. One thing a thief DOES NOT want to hear when breaking into a residence is an alarm followed by the sound of a VERY PISSED OFF DOG. I would consider this the long term goal.
For the love of God, do not get a Cane Corso. They are way too much dog for 99% of the human population. They require EXTENSIVE socialization and training to make them a good, stable dog. If you screw up their training or socialization, which is not hard for an inexperienced dog owner to do, they can end up being a walking four-legged hazard. THEY ALSO HAVE STRONG PREY DRIVE meaning they are a crappy choice for someone with cats.
That is a good point I suppose; I would not stop at just getting a dog for prevention but... since that really isn't what the OP is here for I'll leave the thread with the final bit of advice. Make sure your house is guaranteed to be protected in the near future.