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[Lost Season 6] Is Over Now. SPOILERS ABOUND

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Posts

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I think the problem some people are having is that we were specifically told that everything had a rational (or at least a rational, lite scifi) explanation.

    Alright, I'm tired of this:

    [citation fucking needed]

    Let's clear this up.

    Throwing someone into a cave and having his consciousness become a shape-shifting pillar of malevolent black smoke is not a rational explanation, it's magic.
    It's a cheat, and it's easy for me to understand why so many people are upset.

    I love how THIS is the egregious sin of the Lost writers.

    It's like everyone has been ignoring the 2 guys who TALK TO THE DEAD for 3 fucking seasons.

    Where was the rational explanation gonna be for that?


    I mean, unless someone is gonna explain this more clearly, it seems the problem isn't that you didn't get answers, it's that they weren't the answers you wanted.

  • pablo_pricepablo_price Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Thirith wrote: »
    One has ramifications for the story, the characters, the universe at large. The other doesn't.

    However, as I wrote earlier, I think they're different in kind: the Reavers being created by an Alliance plan gone awry is a plot development. The island being magic is Lost's premise. The former makes the fictional universe more complex; the latter is what most of the plot flows from.

    It doesn't? How does the answer to the Island and the Smoke Monster not effect the story, the characters or the universe at large?

    Explain why it doesn't. Cause the relationship of faith vs science is really fucking clear there to me.

    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now


    [citation fucking needed]

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't? How does the answer to the Island and the Smoke Monster not effect the story, the characters or the universe at large?

    Explain why it doesn't. Cause the relationship of faith vs science is really fucking clear there to me.
    How do we know anything more about the island now than we did before? How did the magic lightshow cave illuminate anything about faith vs science in the last episode?

    The relationship between the two brothers and their stepmother, now that had a lot to do with the whole free will vs. fate thing - but I fail to see how the cave was anything other than window dressing.



    Edit: While watching the episode, I was wondering: what would it've been like if they'd shown it at the beginning of the season, either as the season starter or as the second episode? My impression is that many of those people who disliked the episode most did so because at this point they want more answers, and the episode didn't provide all that much in the way of answers. It was primarily there to characterise Jacob and Smokey, but I don't see how it provided any genuine answers. (Shryke, you yourself mention the "Turtles all the way down" thing.) If it had come earlier in the season, the audience might not have been as acutely aware that we're running out of time for answers, if that's what one is looking for.

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  • DHS OdiumDHS Odium Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    This is going to be like Oldboy, we've been imprisoned for 6 years with a mystery, and by the time we're done unraveling it we're not going to like where it leads us.

    Really though, I don't think anyone is asking to be spoon-fed answers here, a lot of the questions have been answered in a way that didn't involve a character specifically explain it. Why were there polar bears? It was an early mystery, and because we got other clues we found out they were trained for simple tasks, like turning a wheel in a freezing underground room. Because it was thought too dangerous for a person to do. Why were there bear skeletons in Tunisia, and why were they so old? We got an answer to that too, the wheel teleports them there, and it's the first hint of time travel and displacement.

    It makes enough sense. It connects things together, what we are having trouble believing is that they are going to be able to do this again with the other mysteries. A crazy, unsympathetic mother who murders and lies is supposed to be a good person, as is her stolen and emotionally and socially crippled child who expressed more evil than his brother who thought to question things, was brutally murdered along with his community, and we're supposed to hate the latter? We're at the point where the writers are telling us what we should feel about the character and it goes against what we're actually shown. I'm think I'm getting away from my point a little here.

    Anyways, the question to the origins of Jacob and Esau were never their origins.. it was the origins of the island, and we only attached it to them because we only knew them as the earliest inhabitants. Showing their origins and us realizing it goes further back doesn't actually answer the question we've been asking, or that the writer's have been showing. Now I want to know the origins of the crazy mother, that's not a new question though, it's the same damn question I had before the last episode.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Thirith wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    It doesn't? How does the answer to the Island and the Smoke Monster not effect the story, the characters or the universe at large?

    Explain why it doesn't. Cause the relationship of faith vs science is really fucking clear there to me.
    How do we know anything more about the island now than we did before? How did the magic lightshow cave illuminate anything about faith vs science in the last episode?

    The relationship between the two brothers and their stepmother, now that had a lot to do with the whole free will vs. fate thing - but I fail to see how the cave was anything other than window dressing.

    That doesn't explain the problem with the explanation at all.

    It explains it exactly. The Island is special. That's about as much as anyone knows. What more did you expect? A detailed scientific explanation of how an electromagnetic pocket causes cancer to be cured?

    Also, apparently it's keeping all the evil in the world in or something? Who knows, we're supposed to find out more about that later.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DHS Odium wrote: »
    It makes enough sense. It connects things together, what we are having trouble believing is that they are going to be able to do this again with the other mysteries. A crazy, unsympathetic mother who murders and lies is supposed to be a good person, as is her stolen and emotionally and socially crippled child who expressed more evil than his brother who thought to question things, was brutally murdered along with his community, and we're supposed to hate the latter? We're at the point where the writers are telling us what we should feel about the character and it goes against what we're actually shown. I'm think I'm getting away from my point a little here.
    I don't think that's what the episode did, though. It made Smokey understandable and showed Jacob's 'goodness' to be questionable. It made their respective morality ambivalent. Arguably, Locke-Smokey is a more interesting villain for being more understandable than Jacob - his actions by now are pretty horrific, but we know where he's coming from.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    DHS Odium wrote: »
    This is going to be like Oldboy, we've been imprisoned for 6 years with a mystery, and by the time we're done unraveling it we're not going to like where it leads us.

    Really though, I don't think anyone is asking to be spoon-fed answers here, a lot of the questions have been answered in a way that didn't involve a character specifically explain it. Why were there polar bears? It was an early mystery, and because we got other clues we found out they were trained for simple tasks, like turning a wheel in a freezing underground room. Because it was thought too dangerous for a person to do. Why were there bear skeletons in Tunisia, and why were they so old? We got an answer to that too, the wheel teleports them there, and it's the first hint of time travel and displacement.

    It makes enough sense. It connects things together, what we are having trouble believing is that they are going to be able to do this again with the other mysteries. A crazy, unsympathetic mother who murders and lies is supposed to be a good person, as is her stolen and emotionally and socially crippled child who expressed more evil than his brother who thought to question things, was brutally murdered along with his community, and we're supposed to hate the latter? We're at the point where the writers are telling us what we should feel about the character and it goes against what we're actually shown. I'm think I'm getting away from my point a little here.

    What? They AREN'T trying to tell you how to feel at all.

    And if they were, they aren't trying to tell you to feel the way you somehow think they are.

    If anything, this episode is supposed to explain the MIB. It's supposed to make us understand and feel for him. Why else do you think it comes after him killing off a bunch of well liked cast members?

    Anyways, the question to the origins of Jacob and Esau were never their origins.. it was the origins of the island, and we only attached it to them because we only knew them as the earliest inhabitants. Showing their origins and us realizing it goes further back doesn't actually answer the question we've been asking, or that the writer's have been showing. Now I want to know the origins of the crazy mother, that's not a new question though, it's the same damn question I had before the last episode.

    Who came before her? Someone else I assume.

    Do you really think anyone actually GETS the Island? Or has ever? There is no omniscient narrator here to explain everything and fulfill your need for everything to be perfectly wrapped up.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    It explains it exactly. The Island is special. That's about as much as anyone knows. What more did you expect? A detailed scientific explanation of how an electromagnetic pocket causes cancer to be cured?
    Sometimes you don't really read people's posts, do you? At least it seems like you're just rolling everyone who's somewhat critical of how Lost chooses to resolve its mysteries (or not) into one big ball.

    I'm okay with what the last episode did. Did it reveal anything about the island that hadn't already been heavily hinted at? I don't think so. It just revealed another turtle that the main turtle was standing on. Did it tell us more about Smokey, Jacob and their motivations? Absolutely, and that's why I enjoyed the episode. As I've said repeatedly by now, the island being magical is the premise of the show, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm fine with that.

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  • pablo_pricepablo_price Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I didn't look very hard, but this is from an interview that after the S1 finale:
    "I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel."
    As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,
    (and yes, I realize the words "yet" and "still" are in those quotes, but the implication is clear)
    Also note that I'm not one of the people bitching about these things, just pointing out that the people who are doing it are not unjustified.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I didn't look very hard, but this is from an interview that after the S1 finale:
    "I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel."
    As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,
    (and yes, I realize the words "yet" and "still" are in those quotes, but the implication is clear)
    Also note that I'm not one of the people bitching about these things, just pointing out that the people who are doing it are not unjustified.

    <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

    I see "yet" and "still" as you point out. But what I really see is "There isn’t any time travel.".

    Remember last season? It's kinda funny seeing him say that considering.

    If that was ever the plan, it was abandoned a LONG time ago.

    I mean, ghosts, time travel, talking to the dead, kids with psychic powers, magical healing. It seems to me the problem is that you and the writers have a very different idea of what "it won’t venture too far into science fiction" means.

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Anyways, the question to the origins of Jacob and Esau were never their origins.. it was the origins of the island, and we only attached it to them because we only knew them as the earliest inhabitants. Showing their origins and us realizing it goes further back doesn't actually answer the question we've been asking, or that the writer's have been showing. Now I want to know the origins of the crazy mother, that's not a new question though, it's the same damn question I had before the last episode.
    This isn't the way the shows direction has been at all though. Lost has always been done from a third person subjective narrative, meaning we as the audience are along the ride with the characters(over the shoulder). We never really know more information than the characters we get to know. It has always been like this. There isn't really any reliable narrator in this sense.

    If it was done from more of an omniscient perspective, you may have a point, but it's not.

    Regarding that interview; at the end of season one, you could make some bs rational explanation for anything mysterious. Remember, the smoke monster had barely been seen, Locke's disability hadn't been explained. If they wanted to they could go in the direction of hallucinations or some other stuff, but they didn't. They probably realized as they went along that their story was evolving into something different than some of the ideas they initially thought of. Hence the no time travel. They most likely had a broad idea of character development and plot ideas but not an entire direction for how they want to display these things to the audience.

    It's very common in television to do that. Isn't like Babylon 5 one of the only shows to be written front to back?

  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    One has ramifications for the story, the characters, the universe at large. The other doesn't.

    However, as I wrote earlier, I think they're different in kind: the Reavers being created by an Alliance plan gone awry is a plot development. The island being magic is Lost's premise. The former makes the fictional universe more complex; the latter is what most of the plot flows from.

    It doesn't? How does the answer to the Island and the Smoke Monster not effect the story, the characters or the universe at large?

    Explain why it doesn't. Cause the relationship of faith vs science is really fucking clear there to me.

    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now


    [citation fucking needed]


    [citation fucking below]


    What is the meaning or significance of the two skeletons that Jack and Kate found in the cave of season 1?
    CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the island. We don't want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in [the Feb. 7 episode], one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.
    LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living — or, I guess, slowly decomposing — proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, ''That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this.''

  • pablo_pricepablo_price Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    I didn't look very hard, but this is from an interview that after the S1 finale:
    "I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel."
    As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,
    (and yes, I realize the words "yet" and "still" are in those quotes, but the implication is clear)
    Also note that I'm not one of the people bitching about these things, just pointing out that the people who are doing it are not unjustified.

    <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

    I see "yet" and "still" as you point out. But what I really see is "There isn’t any time travel.".

    Remember last season?

    If that was ever the plan, it was abandoned a LONG time ago.

    I mean, ghosts, time travel, talking to the dead, kids with psychic powers, magical healing. It seems to me the problem is that you and the writers have a very different idea of what "it won’t venture too far into science fiction" means.

    and when people brought that up they said. "Well, lost has always been a sci-fi show, we just didn't advertise it."
    and now season 6 comes along and all of a sudden, lost isn't a sci-fi show anymore, it's a wizards-did-it show and the last 5 seasons are irrelevant to the new "good vs evil brothers" plotline and you don't know why some people are upset?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    I didn't look very hard, but this is from an interview that after the S1 finale:
    "I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet … that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and … things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel."
    As the show progresses, he added, it won’t venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. “We’re still trying to be … firmly ensconced in the world of science fact,
    (and yes, I realize the words "yet" and "still" are in those quotes, but the implication is clear)
    Also note that I'm not one of the people bitching about these things, just pointing out that the people who are doing it are not unjustified.

    <img class=" title=":lol:" class="bbcode_smiley" />

    I see "yet" and "still" as you point out. But what I really see is "There isn’t any time travel.".

    Remember last season?

    If that was ever the plan, it was abandoned a LONG time ago.

    I mean, ghosts, time travel, talking to the dead, kids with psychic powers, magical healing. It seems to me the problem is that you and the writers have a very different idea of what "it won’t venture too far into science fiction" means.

    and when people brought that up they said. "Well, lost has always been a sci-fi show, we just didn't advertise it."
    and now season 6 comes along and all of a sudden, lost isn't a sci-fi show anymore, it's a wizards-did-it show and the last 5 seasons are irrelevant to the new "good vs evil brothers" plotline and you don't know why some people are upset?

    How is it not a sci-fi show anymore?




    Deebaser,

    That citation doesn't cover what we were talking about. No one denies they said the whole Adam and Eve thing was set up from the start. We were asking for a citation for "everything will have a rational explanation".

  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    I can't believe how many people are bitching about the show now when there are 3.5 fucking hours left.

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  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Huh? The citation shows that they cited as Adam and Eve were proof and that that is now proven to be bullshit. That's the quote you wanted a citation on, no?

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    and the last 5 seasons are irrelevant to the new "good vs evil brothers" plotline and you don't know why some people are upset?
    Jacob and Adam's struggle is just another iteration of the duality that's been going on since way back with Jack and locke. Season 1-5 are in no way irrelevant because Jacob and Adam's struggle is what the show has used as an overarching thematic device since day one. The preceding seasons had the characters discovering things about themselves and what they were doing on the island which directly relates to why they're there now. Jacob and Adam's struggle is another backdrop in a sense for the characters to come to their ultimate realizations or destinies.
    The citation shows that they cited as Adam and Eve were proof and that that is now proven to be bullshit.
    How is this proven to be bs? I guess you could say 'oh they could have made anyone the skeletons'. Maybe, maybe not. That's not proof though. That's conjecture.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Huh? The citation shows that they cited as Adam and Eve were proof and that that is now proven to be bullshit. That's the quote you wanted a citation on, no?

    No.

    This was what was brought up:
    shryke wrote: »
    I think the problem some people are having is that we were specifically told that everything had a rational (or at least a rational, lite scifi) explanation.

    Alright, I'm tired of this:

    [citation fucking needed]

    Let's clear this up.

  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    As was this...
    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now


    [citation fucking needed]

    You asked for 2 deep sky blue citations.

    Anyway, it's neither here nor there. It looks like Lost for me is going down as a show with an amazing first and second season that finished weakly in season six.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Deebaser wrote: »
    As was this...
    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now


    [citation fucking needed]

    You asked for 2 deep sky blue citations.

    I was asking for the same citation again, since "pretty much every season 1-3 interview" does not count as a citation.

    Context. Yeesh.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    the show isn't over you know

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  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    That's pretty much what I was getting at above.

    I mean, it's ok to not like a particular episode but with so much more that will most likely be revealed I thinks it's about 10 days premature to go high and right on the show.

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  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lucid wrote: »
    People have yet to prove through any rational discourse why the way things have been answered is bad.

    Can you give an example of how one would prove something like this through rational discourse because I think numerous people have pointed out very rational reasons for why most "answers" are not really answers.

    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    That's pretty much what I was getting at above.

    I mean, it's ok to not like a particular episode but with so much more that will most likely be revealed I thinks it's about 10 days premature to go high and right on the show.

    I think it depends.

    I mean, if you are wondering about X or Y and you don't think it's been answered, then yeah there's still time. (Like the nature of the Smoke Monster or Jacob's plan or whatever)

    But it seems alot of people just aren't happy with the answers already given. The last 3 episodes aren't gonna change that.

    Lucid wrote: »
    People have yet to prove through any rational discourse why the way things have been answered is bad.

    Can you give an example of how one would prove something like this through rational discourse because I think numerous people have pointed out very rational reasons for why most "answers" are not really answers or are 'bad' answers.

    No, you've only stated that you don't like the answers given.

    You haven't shown how they are bad or non-answers.

  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    If a show has to answer a good chunk of its mystery in the last 2 episodes out of 6 season it is doing it wrong.

    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • DeebaserDeebaser Alpha Teemo Fake Board GamerRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    As was this...
    pretty much every season 1-3 interview when they were accused of just making shit up along the way.
    they always cited adam & eve as the "proof" that they knew where they were going, but that has clearly been shown to be bullshit now


    [citation fucking needed]

    You asked for 2 deep sky blue citations.

    I was asking for the same citation again, since "pretty much every season 1-3 interview" does not count as a citation.

    Context. Yeesh.

    Either context or citation does not mean what you think it does.

    I gave you a citation (the link) which covers the creators saying what pablo_price said that they done said.

    If you want multiple citations covering every instance where the writers did or did not say that to disprove what is obviously hyperbole, you're being a little silly.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    If a show has to answer a good chunk of its mystery in the last 2 episodes out of 6 season it is doing it wrong.

    oh okay. can you show me the show that did it right so I know where the template comes from?

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  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Lucid wrote: »
    People have yet to prove through any rational discourse why the way things have been answered is bad.

    Can you give an example of how one would prove something like this through rational discourse because I think numerous people have pointed out very rational reasons for why most "answers" are not really answers or are 'bad' answers.

    No, you've only stated that you don't like the answers given.

    You haven't shown how they are bad or non-answers.

    Now you are just being a silly goose.

    Previously
    me: "light hole is not an explanation for the smoke monster it just brings up more questions."
    you: "turtles"

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  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    If a show has to answer a good chunk of its mystery in the last 2 episodes out of 6 season it is doing it wrong.

    Wait, what....what did you expect the end of this show to be, if not answering the majority of the mysteries?

  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    If a show has to answer a good chunk of its mystery in the last 2 episodes out of 6 season it is doing it wrong.

    Wait, what....what did you expect the end of this show to be, if not answering the majority of the mysteries?

    I was hoping that they would spend the last season or two answering lots of questions instead of cramming some deus ex machina into the last episode or two. They certainly had enough questions they could spread answers out across many many episodes.

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  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    how could there be an answer in that case that doesn't raise another question?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Lucid wrote: »
    People have yet to prove through any rational discourse why the way things have been answered is bad.

    Can you give an example of how one would prove something like this through rational discourse because I think numerous people have pointed out very rational reasons for why most "answers" are not really answers or are 'bad' answers.

    No, you've only stated that you don't like the answers given.

    You haven't shown how they are bad or non-answers.

    Now you are just being a silly goose.

    Previously
    me: "light hole is not an explanation for the smoke monster it just brings up more questions."
    you: "turtles"

    "Light Hole" is an explanation though. There is some special force of something under the Island. An Electromagnetic pocket or some such apparently.

    The thing is, you don't like this explanation for whatever reason. That doesn't make it bad and it doesn't make it not an explanation.

  • VariableVariable Ted Hitler Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    and they pocket has mystical powers

    for some reason

    it's about when you are willing to stop asking 'why' and accept that there was a story told. the story may be good or bad, I am anxiously awaiting the ending, but I can't imagine what answers were expected here.

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  • Greg USNGreg USN Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    That's pretty much what I was getting at above.

    I mean, it's ok to not like a particular episode but with so much more that will most likely be revealed I thinks it's about 10 days premature to go high and right on the show.

    I think it depends.

    I mean, if you are wondering about X or Y and you don't think it's been answered, then yeah there's still time. (Like the nature of the Smoke Monster or Jacob's plan or whatever)

    But it seems alot of people just aren't happy with the answers already given. The last 3 episodes aren't gonna change that.


    But even then there is plenty of time for more information about said answers to be given.

    I guess my mind is blown why people are so upset that there could be the possibility of something supernatural or unexplainable happening on the island.

    The big bang example last thread was a good example. No one knows what caused it, in our lifetime we most likely never will. But we all accept that it happened.

    In Lost there is a mystical "source" we may never know what it is precisely, but its there. Writing it off as "magic" is silly. If one has a hard time accepting the supernatural in this show then I have no idea how they got this far into it.

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  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Lucid wrote: »
    People have yet to prove through any rational discourse why the way things have been answered is bad.

    Can you give an example of how one would prove something like this through rational discourse because I think numerous people have pointed out very rational reasons for why most "answers" are not really answers.
    No, there hasn't been one rational criticism of the answers given throughout the show. They are answers. You can claim otherwise, but you haven't provided any reasoning behind why they aren't answers beyond the fact that you don't like how they were answered. If you think that within the context of the show and its universe that the answers given don't actually give any information then explain this, deconstruct why and how this is the case. Explain why as it's presented the answers used in the show work against it as a whole. Oh, wait you didn't actually watch the show. Many people have made claims about internal consistency or this and that, but haven't actually explained this.

    Look, not liking something is just fine, but to carry that as an argument is pointless. I think I've stated this enough times really, and it's tiring, seeing the same non arguments over and over.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    Greg USN wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Greg USN wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    the show isn't over you know

    That's pretty much what I was getting at above.

    I mean, it's ok to not like a particular episode but with so much more that will most likely be revealed I thinks it's about 10 days premature to go high and right on the show.

    I think it depends.

    I mean, if you are wondering about X or Y and you don't think it's been answered, then yeah there's still time. (Like the nature of the Smoke Monster or Jacob's plan or whatever)

    But it seems alot of people just aren't happy with the answers already given. The last 3 episodes aren't gonna change that.


    But even then there is plenty of time for more information about said answers to be given.

    I guess my mind is blown why people are so upset that there could be the possibility of something supernatural or unexplainable happening on the island.

    The big bang example last thread was a good example. No one knows what caused it, in our lifetime we most likely never will. But we all accept that it happened.

    In Lost there is a mystical "source" we may never know what it is precisely, but its there. Writing it off as "magic" is silly. If one has a hard time accepting the supernatural in this show then I have no idea how they got this far into it.

    Hell if I know. Personally once the Island Time/Space-Traveled and Hurley started talking to dead people, I figured all bets were off.

  • JonBobJonBob Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    People are focusing on the "how" being missing in the backstory, when I think what they want is really the "why." People complain that the light hole was not explained enough, which is taken to mean that we don't know how it works. That's not really important, though. What we need to know is the motivation for protecting it.

    I think "show, don't tell" applies here, as in so many other cases. Example: Mom tells Jacob and Smokey that this light is very important, and they have to protect it. Mom is crazy and unreliable. We have no reason to believe this. However, what if they had shown us an example? Perhaps some of the light escapes, or something, and we see bad things happen as a result. Now we have a reason to care about this struggle.

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  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2010
    My problem with the answers comes from the same problem I have with all the information we get from lost, it's a subjective source.

    Ben seemed to know what was going on on the island, but now he seems just as clueless as us. Why are the other people on the island? I still don't know. Part of it is because Jacob wants to prove that men can be good. okay, why? Is there a reason he's playing this game with his brother, a game that got him killed?

    As to what questions were answered that weren't really answered: That light that's in every single person, and also collected in this hole, what is that? Is it our free will? Is it our soul?

    What is the Smokey now? Why can't he be allowed to leave?

    These are all things that were kind of answered in the last episode that weren't really answered to me. Okay, I get the origin of smokey, I guess, but the mechanics of how he came about wasn't the question I was looking for. I don't really care how he became that thing, I want to know why.

    On lost many things happen, and don't care how they happened. (like how the fuck Eloise knows why everything is happening). I want to know why.

    edit: exactly JB. I want to know why the lights important. Maybe those answers will still come.

  • ZampanovZampanov You May Not Go Home Until Tonight Has Been MagicalRegistered User regular
    edited May 2010
    My problem with the answers comes from the same problem I have with all the information we get from lost, it's a subjective source.

    Ben seemed to know what was going on on the island, but now he seems just as clueless as us. Why are the other people on the island? I still don't know. Part of it is because Jacob wants to prove that men can be good. okay, why? Is there a reason he's playing this game with his brother, a game that got him killed?

    As to what questions were answered that weren't really answered: That light that's in every single person, and also collected in this hole, what is that? Is it our free will? Is it our soul?

    What is the Smokey now? Why can't he be allowed to leave?

    These are all things that were kind of answered in the last episode that weren't really answered to me. Okay, I get the origin of smokey, I guess, but the mechanics of how he came about wasn't the question I was looking for. I don't really care how he became that thing, I want to know why.

    On lost many things happen, and don't care how they happened. (like how the fuck Eloise knows why everything is happening). I want to know why.

    edit: exactly JB. I want to know why the lights important. Maybe those answers will still come.

    Yeah, I was gonna say. I could see being upset with that stuff if you just saw the season finale. Shit ain't over yet, people.

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