This is going back a few pages but someone mentioned doing roots but with white actors. That though has been bouncing around in the back of my head for a bit. Imagine doing it in reverse of what really happend. Slave traders come to america and kidnap a white kid called Toby, force him to go to africa, mutilate him and whip him to submit to the name Kunta Kinte. Take that and show it to a KKK supremacist and go " what do you think about racisim now? "
This being one of the more visible departures, however, if it was done for a story-driven reason and not merely to appease some sense of guilt or to make a choice that would be controversial, then I would expect it to be addressed at some point.
My opinion on why this was done is that story didn't enter in to it. As one who has loved several Marvel-based movies, such as Iron man and X-Men, I would hope that Thor would be the opportunity to do more than a beer and pretzels movie.
It might be more Fantastic Four than X-men, but I didn't like Fantastic Four. I'd rather have something that's more cerebral, and I don't feel that this decision was based in the brain.
Looking like a black guy would be a parlor trick by comparison.
True. And is the point of the opposition that he chose it for some aesthetic reason? That would definitely be a reason. If you can honestly say that you believe that Heimdall chose to look different to all the other deities for a real, aesthetic reason, then that would be a story-driven reason.
I haven't seen any evidence of that, but as I have said before: If the movie shows an honest, thought-out reason for his appearance, I will come on here and apologize.
But what would constitute "an honest, thought-out reason" is completely subjective. And even if he does have a reason it could be implied without being directly addressed.
If they're going to have to specifically lampshade every single divergence with either Norse Myth and Marvel canon, that's all they're going to spend the two hours doing.
Looking like a black guy would be a parlor trick by comparison.
True. And is the point of the opposition that he chose it for some aesthetic reason? That would definitely be a reason. If you can honestly say that you believe that Heimdall chose to look different to all the other deities for a real, aesthetic reason, then that would be a story-driven reason.
I haven't seen any evidence of that, but as I have said before: If the movie shows an honest, thought-out reason for his appearance, I will come on here and apologize.
But what would constitute "an honest, thought-out reason" is completely subjective. And even if he does have a reason it could be implied without being directly addressed.
If they're going to have to specifically lampshade every single divergence with either Norse Myth and Marvel canon, that's all they're going to spend the two hours doing.
I'm pretty ok with the built in implication that skin color is of no consequence to a shapeshifting, god-like entity. Beyond basic humanoid symmetry, he already looks different from all the other Aesir; being black could be of no greater distinction to him than having red hair or a mustache.
Also holy shit. "Nobody would even think of casting a black Metabaron."
that is just amazing
I don't see why. Let's put aside the European/US cultural divisions - I've been a fool for bringing that up on a forum in a foreign language, it's an invitation to misunderstandings and friction, mea maxima culpa - and talk strictly hard facts.
Metabarons are a (formerly medieval) caste. One heir at a time, the son killing the father.
You cast a black metabaron, you have to change the whole family to black actors/actresses or you'll have to change the whole story. You just put the whole graphical and scenarical coherence between the movie and the source work in jeopardy for a casting issue.
Imho, a good adaptation is when the casting bend to the source material, not the other way around. And that has nothing to do with racism or politics or ideology. It is about aesthetics and being faithful to the original work it is based upon, however "poor" or "popular" one might think it is.
Heimdall should be white, like Storm should be black (and since we're talking movies, nobody watching X-men without a clue about the comic would notice the paradox with the character's background).
It does matter for some part of the original audience of the source material. And for the other part of this original audience, they'll go as far as "not caring as long as he's badass enough" but will clearly not complain for having someone actually looking like the original character.
What about the large majority of the movie audience who don't know or don't give a shit about the character then ? Well, most likely, resembling or not, aesthetically correct or not they don't give a shit as they don't have a comparison point. But you can't really take them as a basis for adaptation, since you could come out with a completely original material and still it'd make no difference.
Therefore I can't really come out with any good artistic reason appart than a possible pure acting superiority over more original-heimdall-look-alike actors that could explain that choice.
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
I don't know about the Kingpin example. I liked it when he was the perfect example of The Man.
The Bendis/Maleev run of Daredevil gave the Kingpin a backstory that was remarkably color blind. I doubt that it was done for the purposes of having a black Kingpin in the movie, but it was very well done.
The son of a failed gang enforcer that rises up and takes control of organized crime in his hometown works regardless of skin tone. It was a bit of a departure from his typical portrayal as a captain of industry that also ran drugs and threw punches at Spiderman on occasion, but I feel like it fits perfectly.
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
Every role in this movie should have been played by Alexander Skarsgård.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Actual genetics have nothing to do with the Gods even if we are going with the original thing?
You've quoted Loki. Please quote source - Any source prior to this film - That suggests Heimdall - In the comics or in history - Was of African descent, or had dark skin.
How can a fucking god be of African descent? Do you think they were of European descent? They are not even from the planet in the first place, Asgard is a separate world.
And I'm not sure if you realize this, but they don't actually pay all that much attention to the skin color of any of the gods in the original prose. Heimdall is called the "White god" not because he's any paler then the rest of them, but because of his nine mothers (genetics, woo!) are called the billow maidens. You know, foam being white and all. And he was the progenitor of all human beings, they actually divide them into serfs, peasants and members of the ruling classes and not Scandinavians or anything like that. It's not like they didn't know there were different races and countries in the 13th century when the stuff was being written. Hell, I challenge you to find a non-ambigous physical description of pretty much anyone mentioned in the myths.
I'm not saying that he's black either, but I am saying that it doesn't really matter in the end unless you are misinformed (Gods are white people durr) or a racist (Gods are WHITE people hurr).
Do you have a similar problem with them speaking English? Because I can guanteree you that the Gods don't speak English either in the original source material. And considering the complicated history of linguistics and evolution of the English language, that's a far bigger stretch then one of them being black.
And no, actual genetics don't have anything to do with gods, even if we are going with the real thing. I don't think you read my post, a dude gave birth to a giant snake. I'm looking forward to you explaining his descent and how it fits DNA and various racial theories there.
Looking like a black guy would be a parlor trick by comparison.
True. And is the point of the opposition that he chose it for some aesthetic reason? That would definitely be a reason. If you can honestly say that you believe that Heimdall chose to look different to all the other deities for a real, aesthetic reason, then that would be a story-driven reason.
I haven't seen any evidence of that, but as I have said before: If the movie shows an honest, thought-out reason for his appearance, I will come on here and apologize.
Buuttt they don't have to show a "honest thought-out reason" for other shapeshifting-alien-Gods deciding to take the form of Cauciasian Homo Sapiens of various ages and genders because that's all just perfectly normal as long as they look like white people.
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
This person;
this person;
this person;
and this person;
are the same person, and I demand that the film recognize this.
Otherwise the artistic integrity of the thing is shot to hell.
I'm just pissed that they're basically raping the already rickety canon of Thor and at this point a black Heimdal is a drop in the bucket.
Much as I'd like to punch you in the 'nads for being one of those people who thinks "any decision that doesn't enshrine heterosexual whiteguydom above all is political correctness run amok", I actually respect your opinion here. Complaining that the movie is a total destruction of the Marvel Thor canon and seeing a black Heimdall as simply one tiny piece of that, rather than THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE EVAR while ignoring everything else - is a genuine problem with the movie adaptation, instead of "omg blackity black black".
Careful, you might break the fragile bones in your limp hand which were worn down from years of internet trolling.
See, when you start at someone with trash talk and accusations they tend not to even care what you have to say. Am I right? It's the internet though, I would expect nothing less.
Your preformed ideas are silly. I don't think every black character in movies or tv or comics is put there for PC reasons. I'm sure some of them are and I am fine with that.
You want to know what's really bad about Heimdall in the movie? The costume. (see spoiler)
He's like a black Skeletor from the MOTU movie:
It isn't too far from this version:
I hope he can pull that off. Looks silly, but I'm guessing all the others beside Thor will look silly. It's going to be one of those movies where we're all supposed to be so impressed because everyone is wearing funny hats and they can pretend like it's normal to wear funny hats and not break character, if that makes sense.
I still think he could have been Skurge the Executioner (part of Thor universe):
I would have lvoed to see that.
Radiclus on
0
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited December 2010
Seriously, watching people suddenly get so concerned about "faithfulness" that they drag out the fainting couch, and it just happens to be when it's about a black dude....
Jacobkosh on
0
Options
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
This person;
this person;
this person;
and this person;
are the same person, and I demand that the film recognize this.
Otherwise the artistic integrity of the thing is shot to hell.
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
This person;
this person;
this person;
and this person;
are the same person, and I demand that the film recognize this.
Otherwise the artistic integrity of the thing is shot to hell.
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
This person;
this person;
this person;
and this person;
are the same person, and I demand that the film recognize this.
Otherwise the artistic integrity of the thing is shot to hell.
Seriously, watching people suddenly get so concerned about "faithfulness" that they drag out the fainting couch, and it just happens to be when it's about a black dude....
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
Edit: I'm not shouting "RACIST" at anyone here. But I'm suggesting everyone should sit back and seriously think about why this single, stupid thing is the sticking point driving 20 pages of thread. The color of an actor's skin is basically a matter of costume design when you talk about a Hollywood blockbuster.
Actual genetics have nothing to do with the Gods even if we are going with the original thing?
You've quoted Loki. Please quote source - Any source prior to this film - That suggests Heimdall - In the comics or in history - Was of African descent, or had dark skin.
How can a fucking god be of African descent? Do you think they were of European descent? They are not even from the planet in the first place, Asgard is a separate world.
And I'm not sure if you realize this, but they don't actually pay all that much attention to the skin color of any of the gods in the original prose. Heimdall is called the "White god" not because he's any paler then the rest of them, but because of his nine mothers (genetics, woo!) are called the billow maidens. You know, foam being white and all. And he was the progenitor of all human beings, they actually divide them into serfs, peasants and members of the ruling classes and not Scandinavians or anything like that. It's not like they didn't know there were different races and countries in the 13th century when the stuff was being written. Hell, I challenge you to find a non-ambigous physical description of pretty much anyone mentioned in the myths.
I'm not saying that he's black either, but I am saying that it doesn't really matter in the end unless you are misinformed (Gods are white people durr) or a racist (Gods are WHITE people hurr).
Do you have a similar problem with them speaking English? Because I can guanteree you that the Gods don't speak English either in the original source material. And considering the complicated history of linguistics and evolution of the English language, that's a far bigger stretch then one of them being black.
And no, actual genetics don't have anything to do with gods, even if we are going with the real thing. I don't think you read my post, a dude gave birth to a giant snake. I'm looking forward to you explaining his descent and how it fits DNA and various racial theories there.
Looking like a black guy would be a parlor trick by comparison.
True. And is the point of the opposition that he chose it for some aesthetic reason? That would definitely be a reason. If you can honestly say that you believe that Heimdall chose to look different to all the other deities for a real, aesthetic reason, then that would be a story-driven reason.
I haven't seen any evidence of that, but as I have said before: If the movie shows an honest, thought-out reason for his appearance, I will come on here and apologize.
Buuttt they don't have to show a "honest thought-out reason" for other shapeshifting-alien-Gods deciding to take the form of Cauciasian Homo Sapiens of various ages and genders because that's all just perfectly normal as long as they look like white people.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
I don't think he means that the racism is overt, but he is right in saying that roles played by white people are always considered the "norm" and if you try and subvert that norm for whatever reason, even if it's just casting the best guy for the part, you suddenly have... well, this. It's pretty textbook institutional racism.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
People bitched about the Punisher being played by a guy with a girl's name.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
There should be a chart, from 0-10 to gauge how racist these casting decisions are. 10 can be what they did with that movie 21 (pretty fucking racist).
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
Yeah. Nerds, and Comic Book Nerds especially are NOTORIOUS for being nitpicky, continuity-obsessed, detail oriented whiners. Hell, I'm guilty of it myself. I was whining in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF thread about the color of a character's hair in a book --> HBO series adaptation. Many Conan the Barbarian purists have a longstanding beef with the Schwarzenegger movie in part because the color of Arnold's hair and eyes didn't match those of the character. I'm not denying there's racism involved here, but we shouldn't underestimate the nerd's natural propensity for being a nitpicky whiner.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
People bitched about the Punisher being played by a guy with a girl's name.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
What?! Thomas Jane was awesome. The script sucked.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
People bitched about the Punisher being played by a guy with a girl's name.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
What?! Thomas Jane was awesome. The script sucked.
Relating to Punisher and the fact that comic movies that appeal to a general audience do not satisfy aficionados of said comic, Thomas Jane Punisher sucked donkeyballs (except for the parts they basically copied [like popsickle torture and the Russian]), and Ray Stevenson Punisher was great.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
People bitched about the Punisher being played by a guy with a girl's name.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
What?! Thomas Jane was awesome. The script sucked.
I agree. Thomas Jane was the best movie punisher so far (though I haven't seen nor do I plan to see Warzone). Waaaaaay better than Lundgren.
The script was a subpar mishmash of Punisher storylines that really needed better focus.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
I don't think he means that the racism is overt, but he is right in saying that roles played by white people are always considered the "norm" and if you try and subvert that norm for whatever reason, even if it's just casting the best guy for the part, you suddenly have... well, this. It's pretty textbook institutional racism.
And I don't think this is institutional racism so much as comic book nerds doing what comic book nerds do. People threw an absolute shitfit that Whitey was all up in Avatar the Last Airbender.
Now, certainly there are some neo-nazi fucktards that are all up in arms that the black man is taking away another job from an aryan, but I just don't think that this is a significant part of the outrage. In fact I think it's most likely eclipsed by people who are upset because Heimdall (I never even heard of him) is their totes favorite character and they didn't get ACTORS NAME to play the part. He's how they always imagined Heimdall.
Deebaser on
0
Options
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
People bitched about the Punisher being played by a guy with a girl's name.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
What?! Thomas Jane was awesome. The script sucked.
I agree. Thomas Jane was the best movie punisher so far (though I haven't seen nor do I plan to see Warzone). Waaaaaay better than Lundgren.
The script was a subpar mishmash of Punisher storylines that really needed better focus.
Warzone was the Dick Tracy of punisher films. However, Titus Pullo is awesome and should be in more things.
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
I don't think he means that the racism is overt, but he is right in saying that roles played by white people are always considered the "norm" and if you try and subvert that norm for whatever reason, even if it's just casting the best guy for the part, you suddenly have... well, this. It's pretty textbook institutional racism.
And I don't think this is institutional racism so much as comic book nerds doing what comic book nerds do. People threw an absolute shitfit that Whitey was all up in Avatar the Last Airbender.
Now, certainly there are some neo-nazi fucktards that are all up in arms that the black man is taking away another job from an aryan, but I just don't think that this is a significant part of the outrage. In fact I think it's most likely eclipsed by people who are upset because Heimdall (I never even heard of him) is their totes favorite character and they didn't get ACTORS NAME to play the part. He's how they always imagined Heimdall.
Sometimes it's really hard to tell with nerd rage. It's just so never ending it's hard to suss out any kind of meaning in all the blarhagrle!!!
This thread really makes me want to watch the Raisin in the Sun episode of Strangers with Candy where all the parts are played by white kids.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
Yeah. Nerds, and Comic Book Nerds especially are NOTORIOUS for being nitpicky, continuity-obsessed, detail oriented whiners. Hell, I'm guilty of it myself. I was whining in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF thread about the color of a character's hair in a book --> HBO series adaptation. Many Conan the Barbarian purists have a longstanding beef with the Schwarzenegger movie in part because the color of Arnold's hair and eyes didn't match those of the character. I'm not denying there's racism involved here, but we shouldn't underestimate the nerd's natural propensity for being a nitpicky whiner.
And what I'm saying is there are 1.6 million breaks from "Canon" here (stated with a smirk, because the concept of canon in comic books is ridiculous anyway, considering the constant retconning at the drop of a hat). Why the fuck is a character getting a skin color change the one we harp on for 20 pages? You're saying there's not some other, more significant change from the comic books that has comic book fans up in arms? The costume change of a side character from white to black is some seriously tedious bullshit.
It's institutional racism, because this is the thing that we have a 21 page thread arguing about. If this were just about comic book nerds getting ridiculous by nitpicking over the movie, we wouldn't be arguing over something that is so incredibly minor in the grand tale of secret alien space gods that are super heroes. There are more interesting things to have nerd boners over.
If we wanted to argue over which character gets played by who, I guaran-fucking-tee that Heimdall wouldn't end up winning the vote. Again, this is getting harped on because at the back of people's minds and deep in their guts they're having a racist reaction that they're not even aware of generally.
Posts
I know it's crazy....
This being one of the more visible departures, however, if it was done for a story-driven reason and not merely to appease some sense of guilt or to make a choice that would be controversial, then I would expect it to be addressed at some point.
My opinion on why this was done is that story didn't enter in to it. As one who has loved several Marvel-based movies, such as Iron man and X-Men, I would hope that Thor would be the opportunity to do more than a beer and pretzels movie.
It might be more Fantastic Four than X-men, but I didn't like Fantastic Four. I'd rather have something that's more cerebral, and I don't feel that this decision was based in the brain.
I'm pretty ok with the built in implication that skin color is of no consequence to a shapeshifting, god-like entity. Beyond basic humanoid symmetry, he already looks different from all the other Aesir; being black could be of no greater distinction to him than having red hair or a mustache.
I don't see why. Let's put aside the European/US cultural divisions - I've been a fool for bringing that up on a forum in a foreign language, it's an invitation to misunderstandings and friction, mea maxima culpa - and talk strictly hard facts.
Metabarons are a (formerly medieval) caste. One heir at a time, the son killing the father.
You cast a black metabaron, you have to change the whole family to black actors/actresses or you'll have to change the whole story. You just put the whole graphical and scenarical coherence between the movie and the source work in jeopardy for a casting issue.
Imho, a good adaptation is when the casting bend to the source material, not the other way around. And that has nothing to do with racism or politics or ideology. It is about aesthetics and being faithful to the original work it is based upon, however "poor" or "popular" one might think it is.
Heimdall should be white, like Storm should be black (and since we're talking movies, nobody watching X-men without a clue about the comic would notice the paradox with the character's background).
It does matter for some part of the original audience of the source material. And for the other part of this original audience, they'll go as far as "not caring as long as he's badass enough" but will clearly not complain for having someone actually looking like the original character.
What about the large majority of the movie audience who don't know or don't give a shit about the character then ? Well, most likely, resembling or not, aesthetically correct or not they don't give a shit as they don't have a comparison point. But you can't really take them as a basis for adaptation, since you could come out with a completely original material and still it'd make no difference.
Therefore I can't really come out with any good artistic reason appart than a possible pure acting superiority over more original-heimdall-look-alike actors that could explain that choice.
This leaves the lot of other reasons raised in the thread (marketing, friendship, etc.) to justify it, none of which should sadly be one for anything art-related.
That's racist! Swans are people too!
Why is one black? He stepped into the Techno-Techno-Melanin-Enhancer or something.
The son of a failed gang enforcer that rises up and takes control of organized crime in his hometown works regardless of skin tone. It was a bit of a departure from his typical portrayal as a captain of industry that also ran drugs and threw punches at Spiderman on occasion, but I feel like it fits perfectly.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Once again: it's good to know you are so worried about artistic integrity in a movie where a blond, bearded Thor speaks King James English and is played by an Australian and has a Welsh father.
How can a fucking god be of African descent? Do you think they were of European descent? They are not even from the planet in the first place, Asgard is a separate world.
And I'm not sure if you realize this, but they don't actually pay all that much attention to the skin color of any of the gods in the original prose. Heimdall is called the "White god" not because he's any paler then the rest of them, but because of his nine mothers (genetics, woo!) are called the billow maidens. You know, foam being white and all. And he was the progenitor of all human beings, they actually divide them into serfs, peasants and members of the ruling classes and not Scandinavians or anything like that. It's not like they didn't know there were different races and countries in the 13th century when the stuff was being written. Hell, I challenge you to find a non-ambigous physical description of pretty much anyone mentioned in the myths.
I'm not saying that he's black either, but I am saying that it doesn't really matter in the end unless you are misinformed (Gods are white people durr) or a racist (Gods are WHITE people hurr).
Do you have a similar problem with them speaking English? Because I can guanteree you that the Gods don't speak English either in the original source material. And considering the complicated history of linguistics and evolution of the English language, that's a far bigger stretch then one of them being black.
And no, actual genetics don't have anything to do with gods, even if we are going with the real thing. I don't think you read my post, a dude gave birth to a giant snake. I'm looking forward to you explaining his descent and how it fits DNA and various racial theories there.
Buuttt they don't have to show a "honest thought-out reason" for other shapeshifting-alien-Gods deciding to take the form of Cauciasian Homo Sapiens of various ages and genders because that's all just perfectly normal as long as they look like white people.
Otherwise the artistic integrity of the thing is shot to hell.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Careful, you might break the fragile bones in your limp hand which were worn down from years of internet trolling.
See, when you start at someone with trash talk and accusations they tend not to even care what you have to say. Am I right? It's the internet though, I would expect nothing less.
Your preformed ideas are silly. I don't think every black character in movies or tv or comics is put there for PC reasons. I'm sure some of them are and I am fine with that.
You want to know what's really bad about Heimdall in the movie? The costume. (see spoiler)
He's like a black Skeletor from the MOTU movie:
I hope he can pull that off. Looks silly, but I'm guessing all the others beside Thor will look silly. It's going to be one of those movies where we're all supposed to be so impressed because everyone is wearing funny hats and they can pretend like it's normal to wear funny hats and not break character, if that makes sense.
I still think he could have been Skurge the Executioner (part of Thor universe):
I would have lvoed to see that.
don't forget this person!
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Oh boy, scratching the surface right there.
Scratching the motherfucking surface...
http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/Avengers/thor/thor.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_versions_of_Thor
edit: wow, beaten
seriously how did three people think of Beta Ray Bill at the same time
This. Whether people realize it or not, it has to be some form of racism, deep, deep down that's driving this, because fuck if this is in any way significant compared to the deviations that movies make from comic books every single time.
Edit: I'm not shouting "RACIST" at anyone here. But I'm suggesting everyone should sit back and seriously think about why this single, stupid thing is the sticking point driving 20 pages of thread. The color of an actor's skin is basically a matter of costume design when you talk about a Hollywood blockbuster.
But was the snake black?
they never tell that :x
I concur. But only because I have a complete hetero man crush on him.
Sadly they can only play non-speaking roles.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I disagree strongly. We're talking about a comic book movie here. People bitch and moan on the internet about EVERY SINGLE DEVIATION a movie makes from the comic.
I don't think he means that the racism is overt, but he is right in saying that roles played by white people are always considered the "norm" and if you try and subvert that norm for whatever reason, even if it's just casting the best guy for the part, you suddenly have... well, this. It's pretty textbook institutional racism.
If there's one constant in comic fandom, it's the need to bitch.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I want to see a Charlie Chaplin film in 3D. No sound or color, just 3D.
Heimdall is pretty much a 1. Maybe.
Yeah. Nerds, and Comic Book Nerds especially are NOTORIOUS for being nitpicky, continuity-obsessed, detail oriented whiners. Hell, I'm guilty of it myself. I was whining in the Game of Thrones/ASOIAF thread about the color of a character's hair in a book --> HBO series adaptation. Many Conan the Barbarian purists have a longstanding beef with the Schwarzenegger movie in part because the color of Arnold's hair and eyes didn't match those of the character. I'm not denying there's racism involved here, but we shouldn't underestimate the nerd's natural propensity for being a nitpicky whiner.
What?! Thomas Jane was awesome. The script sucked.
3DS: 1521-4165-5907
PS3: KayleSolo
Live: Kayle Solo
WiiU: KayleSolo
Relating to Punisher and the fact that comic movies that appeal to a general audience do not satisfy aficionados of said comic, Thomas Jane Punisher sucked donkeyballs (except for the parts they basically copied [like popsickle torture and the Russian]), and Ray Stevenson Punisher was great.
The script was a subpar mishmash of Punisher storylines that really needed better focus.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
And I don't think this is institutional racism so much as comic book nerds doing what comic book nerds do. People threw an absolute shitfit that Whitey was all up in Avatar the Last Airbender.
Now, certainly there are some neo-nazi fucktards that are all up in arms that the black man is taking away another job from an aryan, but I just don't think that this is a significant part of the outrage. In fact I think it's most likely eclipsed by people who are upset because Heimdall (I never even heard of him) is their totes favorite character and they didn't get ACTORS NAME to play the part. He's how they always imagined Heimdall.
Warzone was the Dick Tracy of punisher films. However, Titus Pullo is awesome and should be in more things.
Sometimes it's really hard to tell with nerd rage. It's just so never ending it's hard to suss out any kind of meaning in all the blarhagrle!!!
This thread really makes me want to watch the Raisin in the Sun episode of Strangers with Candy where all the parts are played by white kids.
And what I'm saying is there are 1.6 million breaks from "Canon" here (stated with a smirk, because the concept of canon in comic books is ridiculous anyway, considering the constant retconning at the drop of a hat). Why the fuck is a character getting a skin color change the one we harp on for 20 pages? You're saying there's not some other, more significant change from the comic books that has comic book fans up in arms? The costume change of a side character from white to black is some seriously tedious bullshit.
It's institutional racism, because this is the thing that we have a 21 page thread arguing about. If this were just about comic book nerds getting ridiculous by nitpicking over the movie, we wouldn't be arguing over something that is so incredibly minor in the grand tale of secret alien space gods that are super heroes. There are more interesting things to have nerd boners over.
If we wanted to argue over which character gets played by who, I guaran-fucking-tee that Heimdall wouldn't end up winning the vote. Again, this is getting harped on because at the back of people's minds and deep in their guts they're having a racist reaction that they're not even aware of generally.
The universe reset every 10 years thing is a DC thing.
Marvel just establishes new universes to retell stories in, but in 616 history is pretty static.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.