Come now, let's not go overboard. Being a potential threat to Japan's criminal warfare across the Western Pacific doesn't count as provocation.
Cutting off oil was.
No. For one thing, that's not a provocation in theory. For another it wasn't a provocation in fact. The attack was already being organized and staged before the US stopped selling oil to the Japanese.
Come now, let's not go overboard. Being a potential threat to Japan's criminal warfare across the Western Pacific doesn't count as provocation.
Cutting off oil was.
No. For one thing, that's not a provocation in theory. For another it wasn't a provocation in fact. The attack was already being organized and staged before the US stopped selling oil to the Japanese.
And considering what that oil was being used for at the time....
You guys know that California is mostly poor laborers and tight-fisted conservatives, right?
San Francisco is tiny and the vague population of Democratic voter types in LA county are way over-represented in the national imagination. 99% of California has nothing to do with places like Santa Monica.
800k is tiny? Huh.
Compared to the total population of California yes. If this was Wyoming? That is the entire state.
Come now, let's not go overboard. Being a potential threat to Japan's criminal warfare across the Western Pacific doesn't count as provocation.
Cutting off oil was.
The impending conflict between the US and Japan was pretty obvious at that point, and I wouldn't call "ceasing the provision of resources to someone who will likely be using those resources against you in the future" a provocation.
I've more or less taken the tack of taking every single word about Japan that does not come from someone on the ground with about a Mount Fuji's worth of salt at best, and disregarding it entirely at worst. Just about everything coming from Stateside reporting is basically 'So, Japanese correspondent, how quickly is everyone going to die from nuclear radiation, and how much rioting is going on for the last grain of rice in the world? Also, is it possible for Americans to make money off of this?' Which isn't helping.
You know what is driving up a fucking wall right now?
Headlines like
"Nuclear power plant scrambles to contain meltown; thousands dead in disaster"
the partial meltdown hasn't killed anybody
grrararrarargle
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I've never stressvomited, but I have felt like that was about to happen just before passing out
Well don't forget they keep saying the nuke plants problems are from the earthquake. In fact it handled the earthquake just fine. It was the wave of water that drowned all its back ups that basically fucked it.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I will never understand rage over Pearl Harbor.
It was a military strike against a military target.
It is less that they hit a military target. Its more that it was a surprise attack. They attacked as far as most Americans were concerned with no provocation or warning and thus broke the rules of "civilized" warfare. The fact that this isn't entirely true doesn't really matter. Also it was last the true "attack" on American soil doesn't help.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
It is less that they hit a military target. Its more that it was a surprise attack. They attacked as far as most Americans were concerned with no provocation or warning and thus broke the rules of "civilized" warfare. The fact that this isn't entirely true doesn't really matter. Also it was last the true "attack" on American soil doesn't help.
Yeah, pretty much this.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
The moon was at Apogee? Whew good thing DNF is at Gearbox now.
Speaking of which I totally ordered the special edition of that game.
When? 1998?
*rimshot*
But no, more last week-ish.
Now to see if Amazon's launch day delivery service is a thing that actually works.
Also I kinda wanna give shitty feedback on that dude for gouging the shit out of me on the price for the midi adaptor but assuming it gets here when it's supposed to I'm not sure that's fair. Also I will be too busy playing around with the squier to probably care anymore.
did you read the criticism piece i linked to earlier? that guy does a good job of laying out a lot of my problems with the overall story of the game. i did love the individual vignettes and character-driven parts, and i really preferred the way they cleaned up the mechanics and gameplay.
It was a military strike against a military target.
Innocent people died. That's why.
So we kill TONS more innocent people in the atom bomb attacks and don't give a shit. That I don't understand.
If you want I can do pages of discussion about us dropping the two atomic bombs. Though horrific it was the final push that got enough of the cabinet to join the surrender with out conditions side and probably save hundreds of thousands of US lives and millions of Japanese lives. Now was the second one needed? Maybe not. Did we do it in the time frame we did to limit Russia from taking more land? Probably. But it isn't actually in recourse to Pearl Harbor and is a pretty huge area of study for historians.
ok now i just need to stay awake for liek two or three more hours, have a soup or somehting for dinner, take my medicine, just sleep and then wake up bright eyed abnd bushy tailed for tomorrow
i am giving up on correcting my typos my fingers are not cooperating
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Pearl Harbour was a dick move, but compared to the other human rights abuses of the Japanese at the time its mostly significant in that it brought the US into the war.
ed
It was targeting soldiers/sailors yes, but soldiers and sailors that were not at war with the Japanese. The USS Cole attack was on soldiers/sailors as well but I doubt you or most people were just like "meh".
It was a military strike against a military target.
Innocent people died. That's why.
So we kill TONS more innocent people in the atom bomb attacks and don't give a shit. That I don't understand.
If you want I can do pages of discussion about us dropping the two atomic bombs. Though horrific it was the final push that got enough of the cabinet to join the surrender with out conditions side and probably save hundreds of thousands of US lives and millions of Japanese lives. Now was the second one needed? Maybe not. Did we do it in the time frame we did to limit Russia from taking more land? Probably. But it isn't actually in recourse to Pearl Harbor and is a pretty huge area of study for historians.
I'm not arguing one way or the other. There is a lot more than my simple post, I know that.
It was a military strike against a military target.
everyone picks their moments in war right? I give Japan points for trying in 1941...they reached for the sky and won, if bit briefly
From my perspective the Fall of Singapore was the worst moment of the War for the Empire and Pearl Harbour was a better moment as it forced the US to join our Alliance
I am enjoying this Etsy thing far too much. The internet has potentially wrecked their IPO.
This kind of shadenfreude must be what drives the Anonymous folks.
no anonymous is fucked up
i will not brook any awe or admiration for anonymous
stomping that out the second i see it
I didn't mean it admiringly. It's quite an ugly thing, really.
It's just fascinating to see how a few emails, blog posts and a couple of simple, clear examples can spread so fast and have actual "real-world" impact. To think that it's entirely due to a few people mucking about on the interbutts is really something.
Pearl Harbour was a dick move, but compared to the other human rights abuses of the Japanese at the time its mostly significant in that it brought the US into the war.
The Japanese human rights abuse is not a major factor pulling us into the war by any means. It was a small lesser factor. Also Rape of Nanking though a major moment isn't your best example since the Japanese downplay the numbers, the Chinese up the numbers and most third party groups put it some where in between. Really I would use the actions of the Japanese in the POW camps, treatment of Korean workers in Japan, and you can actually go through the entire occupation of Korea for that. And get a lot more hard evidence for their human rights abuses.
Nanking is like throwing when is a fetus a human in a abortion debate. The actual numbers, destruction and treatment is up for interpretation from multiple sides many of whom are using it for political gain.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
I am enjoying this Etsy thing far too much. The internet has potentially wrecked their IPO.
This kind of shadenfreude must be what drives the Anonymous folks.
no anonymous is fucked up
i will not brook any awe or admiration for anonymous
stomping that out the second i see it
I didn't mean it admiringly. It's quite an ugly thing, really.
It's just fascinating to see how a few emails, blog posts and a couple of simple, clear examples can spread so fast and have actual "real-world" impact. To think that it's entirely due to a few people mucking about on the interbutts is really something.
Posts
No. For one thing, that's not a provocation in theory. For another it wasn't a provocation in fact. The attack was already being organized and staged before the US stopped selling oil to the Japanese.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
And considering what that oil was being used for at the time....
Compared to the total population of California yes. If this was Wyoming? That is the entire state.
Speaking of which I totally ordered the special edition of that game.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
When? 1998?
You know what is driving up a fucking wall right now?
Headlines like
"Nuclear power plant scrambles to contain meltown; thousands dead in disaster"
the partial meltdown hasn't killed anybody
grrararrarargle
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
i rushed into my building
both elevators were on the tenth floor, both of them
and they took their sweet time coming down
there was a young couple with a baby and i literally thought 'well if i shit my pants maybe they'll blame the smell on the baby'
It was a military strike against a military target.
Stock photo (c) 2007 Getty Images
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Innocent people died. That's why.
So we kill TONS more innocent people in the atom bomb attacks and don't give a shit. That I don't understand.
Surprise attacks during diplomatic talks tend to be the kind of thing one doesn't forget. And it tends to be the kind of thing that leads to grudges.
Yeah, pretty much this.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
*rimshot*
But no, more last week-ish.
Now to see if Amazon's launch day delivery service is a thing that actually works.
Also I kinda wanna give shitty feedback on that dude for gouging the shit out of me on the price for the midi adaptor but assuming it gets here when it's supposed to I'm not sure that's fair. Also I will be too busy playing around with the squier to probably care anymore.
Did you deliberately use the one that looks like a clown or is that unintentional hilarity?
my critique of the first part of his critique
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Methinks, it is like a weasel.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If you want I can do pages of discussion about us dropping the two atomic bombs. Though horrific it was the final push that got enough of the cabinet to join the surrender with out conditions side and probably save hundreds of thousands of US lives and millions of Japanese lives. Now was the second one needed? Maybe not. Did we do it in the time frame we did to limit Russia from taking more land? Probably. But it isn't actually in recourse to Pearl Harbor and is a pretty huge area of study for historians.
i am giving up on correcting my typos my fingers are not cooperating
It wasn't targeting innocent people.
I can maybe understand this position from staunch pacifists or hippie peaceniks but it's not them who get upset.
ed
It was targeting soldiers/sailors yes, but soldiers and sailors that were not at war with the Japanese. The USS Cole attack was on soldiers/sailors as well but I doubt you or most people were just like "meh".
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
This kind of shadenfreude must be what drives the Anonymous folks.
I'm not arguing one way or the other. There is a lot more than my simple post, I know that.
no anonymous is fucked up
i will not brook any awe or admiration for anonymous
stomping that out the second i see it
everyone picks their moments in war right? I give Japan points for trying in 1941...they reached for the sky and won, if bit briefly
From my perspective the Fall of Singapore was the worst moment of the War for the Empire and Pearl Harbour was a better moment as it forced the US to join our Alliance
Edit: that was supposed to be in response to Santa Monica.
Lern 2 post, desc
Wars sometimes produce grudges. The Civil War did it, the Sunni and the Shia, Protestant and Catholic. Humans are good at grudges.
I like anonymous.
The hackers, not the 4channers.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I didn't mean it admiringly. It's quite an ugly thing, really.
It's just fascinating to see how a few emails, blog posts and a couple of simple, clear examples can spread so fast and have actual "real-world" impact. To think that it's entirely due to a few people mucking about on the interbutts is really something.
The Japanese human rights abuse is not a major factor pulling us into the war by any means. It was a small lesser factor. Also Rape of Nanking though a major moment isn't your best example since the Japanese downplay the numbers, the Chinese up the numbers and most third party groups put it some where in between. Really I would use the actions of the Japanese in the POW camps, treatment of Korean workers in Japan, and you can actually go through the entire occupation of Korea for that. And get a lot more hard evidence for their human rights abuses.
Nanking is like throwing when is a fetus a human in a abortion debate. The actual numbers, destruction and treatment is up for interpretation from multiple sides many of whom are using it for political gain.
My grandad was at the evacuation.
i mean, its not illegal for brick-and-mortar businesses to share personal info of their customers
is it just internet privacy rage or what?
oh, okay
yeah, it makes internet activism really addictive