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PA Programming Thread: Arguing, Cursing, and Recursing

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I have, unfortunately. It was the most soul-sucking job I've ever had. Plus the owner thought I should have his enthusiasm for working 60+ hour weeks, and should be unpaid after 40, making 62.5x's less than he did at 2 million USD a year. I was the only other employee after about 3 months.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Yeah, from their pictures... wow that's one shitty office to be looking for top programmers!


    "every year we take the company overseas for a month (on your own dime, sorry) and work incredibly hard while having a ton of fun."

    Working long, hard hours with all the expenses of a vacation! (Not to mention work visas?)



    "Everyone helps with tech support, schmoozing at swank parties, hosting events, coming up with new and ever-more-ridiculous marketing stunts, etc. And if you code, you'll code everything: you might do mobile one day, front-end design, back-end optimization, low-level debugging, the works."

    Specialization is for chumps, everybody can switch from web development to UI design to assembly instantly.

    I worked at a place like that, where everyone had to be good at everything. When you have 4 programmers you can get away with it to a degree, but if you want to actually grow and write a solid system it gets old. I was fantastic at design and coding but had to work on hardware because they wouldn't hire someone to specifically do that. A year before I quit over this they fired a guy who would have been an amazing sysadmin because he failed at designing and coding an entire customer implementation that he was in no way ready to do. Just constant mismanagement of the people working there and not understanding how to properly use them.

    kdrudy on
    tvsfrank.jpg
  • Options
    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    Wow, I missed that stuff phyphor.

    Seems like they want VB programmers.

    Given his distaste for .NET, they probably want VB6 programmers. That's the one everybody likes, right?

    templewulf on
    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    templewulf wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Wow, I missed that stuff phyphor.

    Seems like they want VB programmers.

    Given his distaste for .NET, they probably want VB6 programmers. That's the one everybody likes, right?

    QBasic. We didn't get enough Low level like he wanted, remember?

    I mean I'm not sure how low level these guys want to get... what can't they do in .NET that they can do in C++? I mean you can pretty much do the same things in C#... I guess include ASM right in the code maybe? I don't know.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    RendRend Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    templewulf wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Wow, I missed that stuff phyphor.

    Seems like they want VB programmers.

    Given his distaste for .NET, they probably want VB6 programmers. That's the one everybody likes, right?

    And windows 98 is still the best operating system.

    Rend on
  • Options
    EvilMonkeyEvilMonkey Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    You stole the lack of words out of my mouth.

    EvilMonkey on
    [PSN: SciencePiggy] [Steam]
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It mainly struck a nerve because whilst I can do other things, I chose .NET because it pays my bills.

    A little startup in San Fran with 2/3 of it's employees as H1B visas? That speaks volumes for what you're really after, slave programmer labor who want entry into the US. Jesus no wonder he's probably having a hard time finding people. You'd probably need to pay a good programmer at least $200,000 a year to work there just to deal with that insane cost of living.

    H1Bs will work for dog food usually. Wouldn't surprise me if they all live in a huge loft downtown, you know, to encourage them to work harder and camaraderie.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I wonder what happens if you don't want to pay to go to another country with the entire company to do work in that country for some reason.

    kdrudy on
    tvsfrank.jpg
  • Options
    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    It mainly struck a nerve because whilst I can do other things, I chose .NET because it pays my bills.

    A little startup in San Fran with 2/3 of it's employees as H1B visas? That speaks volumes for what you're really after, slave programmer labor who want entry into the US. Jesus no wonder he's probably having a hard time finding people. You'd probably need to pay a good programmer at least $200,000 a year to work there just to deal with that insane cost of living.

    H1Bs will work for dog food usually. Wouldn't surprise me if they all live in a huge loft downtown, you know, to encourage them to work harder and camaraderie.

    I take an insult to that as an H1B programmer.

    Ethea on
  • Options
    Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Is there really that much difference between an imported coder and a home grown one who is fresh out of the coder factory? Seriously, when most people graduate their resume looks like mine:
    I know Java, C, and Go
    I have a fancy piece of paper that cost me $100,000.
    I delivered pizza for 4 years.

    You are lucky if they've ever had a job at all! Personally I hope to get in on an internship thing they have going at my school for the last quarter, but I don't think that's very common.

    What kind of wage difference are we looking at here?

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ethea wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    It mainly struck a nerve because whilst I can do other things, I chose .NET because it pays my bills.

    A little startup in San Fran with 2/3 of it's employees as H1B visas? That speaks volumes for what you're really after, slave programmer labor who want entry into the US. Jesus no wonder he's probably having a hard time finding people. You'd probably need to pay a good programmer at least $200,000 a year to work there just to deal with that insane cost of living.

    H1Bs will work for dog food usually. Wouldn't surprise me if they all live in a huge loft downtown, you know, to encourage them to work harder and camaraderie.

    I take an insult to that as an H1B programmer.

    Well, I can rephrase that, but I think you're focusing too much on the last statements and not enough on the first ones. Startups where 2/3 of the employees are H1Bs are generally considered sweatshops here (not even in the tech world, we have a few of them in Syracuse), I'm not shitting on the H1Bs so much as remarking about the situation that company specifically advertises towards (a similar one to Microsoft).

    You look at companies that have those ethos where "there's no talent in the US, let's look abroad" and it really is fundamentally "I am a cheap bastard and want to import people from India and the middle east who will work for $25,000 a year." Microsoft is a prime example of this.

    I have met some really fascinating and talented people who have come across with H1Bs. I know a few from Hong Kong and Britain, but all in all they are willing to put up with a lot more bullshit at the threat of losing the visa, such as working 14 hour days, getting paid for 8 because "exempt!" just to prevent losing that. That's what I'm jabbing at, not that you would work for dog food.

    Poor choice in that last set of statements, I think. I apologize.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    It mainly struck a nerve because whilst I can do other things, I chose .NET because it pays my bills.

    A little startup in San Fran with 2/3 of it's employees as H1B visas? That speaks volumes for what you're really after, slave programmer labor who want entry into the US. Jesus no wonder he's probably having a hard time finding people. You'd probably need to pay a good programmer at least $200,000 a year to work there just to deal with that insane cost of living.

    H1Bs will work for dog food usually. Wouldn't surprise me if they all live in a huge loft downtown, you know, to encourage them to work harder and camaraderie.

    They specifically state that they don't care if you're a citizen and all they want are junior people. Degrees are minuses for them!

    Phyphor on
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Phyphor wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    It mainly struck a nerve because whilst I can do other things, I chose .NET because it pays my bills.

    A little startup in San Fran with 2/3 of it's employees as H1B visas? That speaks volumes for what you're really after, slave programmer labor who want entry into the US. Jesus no wonder he's probably having a hard time finding people. You'd probably need to pay a good programmer at least $200,000 a year to work there just to deal with that insane cost of living.

    H1Bs will work for dog food usually. Wouldn't surprise me if they all live in a huge loft downtown, you know, to encourage them to work harder and camaraderie.

    They specifically state that they don't care if you're a citizen and all they want are junior people. Degrees are minuses for them!

    I don't even know then. How does one even live in San Fran or the surrounding areas without making close to $80K a year? You can't hardly live in cali on what they have to be paying, I mean, unless you like to have 4-5 roommates. Which suddenly makes their company make a whole lot more sense.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Never mind the h1b process is really expensive and you have to show that you couldn't find an American to do the job.

    Ethea on
  • Options
    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I'm looking for a good 3D game framework to futz around with... that can run on the mac.

    A lot of the good options I'm finding are either too low level (direct OpenGL/C) for the amount of time I have, or so abstract that I'm not really learning anything (Unity).

    I've been searching around for Python community for a good 3D engine but they all either dependency hell, have no explicit OS X support, or are too primitive and poorly documented to be worth my time.

    Ideally what I want is something very close to XNA but usable on OS X.
    Pygame is on my to have a play with one of these days. I'm assuming you've checked it out, which end of the scale does it fall on? On a related note, the 3d screenshots I've seen from it were mediocre. Is that more likely a lack of art talent of the devs or can pygame just not do very high res 3d models?

    I don't know. Most of Pygame's gallery looks pretty lacking, and I've never heard of it mentioned with 3D per-se.

    My big framework requirements are the ability to load in models and textures easily... that's really pretty much it... maybe some helpers for control input and cameras, but other than that I'm prepared to write the code myself... I just don't want to spend three weeks writing horrible OpenGL procedures that don't run well to begin with.

    Jasconius on
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ethea wrote: »
    Never mind the h1b process is really expensive and you have to show that you couldn't find an American to do the job.

    Pretty easy to do that last part. "No one has applied for my job that requires you to not know .NET!"

    Isn't an H1B filing + associated fees (including expedited processing) total $4000? Not exactly bank breaking, especially if you are treating them like garbage.

    Ethea, it is not a jab at you. I understand there are very many talented H1Bers. Though, I am arguing against using H1Bs because you can't find anyone in the US to work for you because you're tantamount a cheap jerk.

    I think we can agree there is a difference between a 1 off H1B here and there, but quite the contrary when you're saying "Man why can't we find people that fit are insane hiring policies and requirements and basically want to work for free??" and then wonder why you have to import practically your entire workforce short of your CEO/CFO and secretary.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I'm looking for a good 3D game framework to futz around with... that can run on the mac.

    A lot of the good options I'm finding are either too low level (direct OpenGL/C) for the amount of time I have, or so abstract that I'm not really learning anything (Unity).

    I've been searching around for Python community for a good 3D engine but they all either dependency hell, have no explicit OS X support, or are too primitive and poorly documented to be worth my time.

    Ideally what I want is something very close to XNA but usable on OS X.
    Pygame is on my to have a play with one of these days. I'm assuming you've checked it out, which end of the scale does it fall on? On a related note, the 3d screenshots I've seen from it were mediocre. Is that more likely a lack of art talent of the devs or can pygame just not do very high res 3d models?

    I don't know. Most of Pygame's gallery looks pretty lacking, and I've never heard of it mentioned with 3D per-se.

    My big framework requirements are the ability to load in models and textures easily... that's really pretty much it... maybe some helpers for control input and cameras, but other than that I'm prepared to write the code myself... I just don't want to spend three weeks writing horrible OpenGL procedures that don't run well to begin with.
    Yeah, I had to look through the gallery to see if there were any 3d games. I found a few, but they looked to be pretty low polygon and low res textures. I just don't know if that's because that's all pygame can do or just that any semi-serious 3d game devs are just going right to xna or opengl.

    I just did some more digging and it looks like pygame has openGL bindings, but it looks like it's just straight one to one mapping to the openGL calls rather than a nice higher level wrapper around them, so that's not really what you're looking for there.

    Jimmy King on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    If they're anything like me, I am absolute trash at making anything more than stick figures or triangles and squares.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    If they're anything like me, I am absolute trash at making anything more than stick figures or triangles and squares.

    Gives me new meaning on a "triangle strip." :lol:

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • Options
    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    Never mind the h1b process is really expensive and you have to show that you couldn't find an American to do the job.

    Pretty easy to do that last part. "No one has applied for my job that requires you to not know .NET!"

    Isn't an H1B filing + associated fees (including expedited processing) total $4000? Not exactly bank breaking, especially if you are treating them like garbage.

    Ethea, it is not a jab at you. I understand there are very many talented H1Bers. Though, I am arguing against using H1Bs because you can't find anyone in the US to work for you because you're tantamount a cheap jerk.

    I think we can agree there is a difference between a 1 off H1B here and there, but quite the contrary when you're saying "Man why can't we find people that fit are insane hiring policies and requirements and basically want to work for free??" and then wonder why you have to import practically your entire workforce short of your CEO/CFO and secretary.


    I didn't mention the H1B cap, but it is generally hard to get all your requested H1B's approved each year. While the cost to submit is ~4k you generally pay an Immigration lawyer to do the massive amount of paperwork which adds to the bottom line. Secondly you do have to show you are paying "prevailing wage" to H1B workers, which isn't to mean great pay, but isn't slave labour pay (generally).

    With more and more people in Computer Science classes being from outside the US, it should be expected that the number of H1B's will increase as these people move from J-1 to H1Bs.

    Ethea on
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Whoa Whoa Whoa, let's not get fancy here.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ethea wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    Never mind the h1b process is really expensive and you have to show that you couldn't find an American to do the job.

    Pretty easy to do that last part. "No one has applied for my job that requires you to not know .NET!"

    Isn't an H1B filing + associated fees (including expedited processing) total $4000? Not exactly bank breaking, especially if you are treating them like garbage.

    Ethea, it is not a jab at you. I understand there are very many talented H1Bers. Though, I am arguing against using H1Bs because you can't find anyone in the US to work for you because you're tantamount a cheap jerk.

    I think we can agree there is a difference between a 1 off H1B here and there, but quite the contrary when you're saying "Man why can't we find people that fit are insane hiring policies and requirements and basically want to work for free??" and then wonder why you have to import practically your entire workforce short of your CEO/CFO and secretary.


    I didn't mention the H1B cap, but it is generally hard to get all your requested H1B's approved each year. While the cost to submit is ~4k you generally pay an Immigration lawyer to do the massive amount of paperwork which adds to the bottom line. Secondly you do have to show you are paying "prevailing wage" to H1B workers, which isn't to mean great pay, but isn't slave labour pay (generally).

    With more and more people in Computer Science classes being from outside the US, it should be expected that the number of H1B's will increase as these people move from J-1 to H1Bs.

    Ah you see this I didn't know. Though, is prevailing wage a federal term or state term? Prevailing wage of a programmer may be $45,000 (national average maybe) but try to live off that in San Fran.

    It just seems to be a cop out, specifically, with this company. In your situation I don't think the majority of the tech workers are from outside the company (I could be wrong), but it just seems like that's the case here. I would really love to know how much he's paying just to see some sort of correlation to why it's hard for him to find talent in the US.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    bowen wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    Never mind the h1b process is really expensive and you have to show that you couldn't find an American to do the job.

    Pretty easy to do that last part. "No one has applied for my job that requires you to not know .NET!"

    Isn't an H1B filing + associated fees (including expedited processing) total $4000? Not exactly bank breaking, especially if you are treating them like garbage.

    Ethea, it is not a jab at you. I understand there are very many talented H1Bers. Though, I am arguing against using H1Bs because you can't find anyone in the US to work for you because you're tantamount a cheap jerk.

    I think we can agree there is a difference between a 1 off H1B here and there, but quite the contrary when you're saying "Man why can't we find people that fit are insane hiring policies and requirements and basically want to work for free??" and then wonder why you have to import practically your entire workforce short of your CEO/CFO and secretary.


    I didn't mention the H1B cap, but it is generally hard to get all your requested H1B's approved each year. While the cost to submit is ~4k you generally pay an Immigration lawyer to do the massive amount of paperwork which adds to the bottom line. Secondly you do have to show you are paying "prevailing wage" to H1B workers, which isn't to mean great pay, but isn't slave labour pay (generally).

    With more and more people in Computer Science classes being from outside the US, it should be expected that the number of H1B's will increase as these people move from J-1 to H1Bs.

    Ah you see this I didn't know. Though, is prevailing wage a federal term or state term? Prevailing wage of a programmer may be $45,000 (national average maybe) but try to live off that in San Fran.

    It just seems to be a cop out, specifically, with this company. In your situation I don't think the majority of the tech workers are from outside the company (I could be wrong), but it just seems like that's the case here. I would really love to know how much he's paying just to see some sort of correlation to why it's hard for him to find talent in the US.

    Prevailing wage is based on the State iirc. My division at work is pretty close to an even split of foreign/national workers, while other divisions are more national.

    Ethea on
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Something also tells me your company's corperate philosophy is strikingly different than expensify's.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm pretty sure, like every law, whether it is abused varies company to company.

    I don't even know off the top of my head what the equivalent is to the H1B here in Canada. I have a lot of foreign trained coworkers in my company, and we're all just one big team. It's not a hot issue at all up here, from my chair anyways, but I also think that this company is a cut above so there is that.

    H1B is just one way for a company to exploit as much as legally possible.

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • Options
    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    I just did some more digging and it looks like pygame has openGL bindings, but it looks like it's just straight one to one mapping to the openGL calls rather than a nice higher level wrapper around them, so that's not really what you're looking for there.

    IIRC, PyGame is actually just a wrapper around SDL. SDL requires a lot more out of you in comparison to XNA, but it's perfectly capable of running any OpenGL code you throw at it.

    It's not limited by anything, just bad programmer art.

    templewulf on
    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • Options
    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    snip

    Snuck in!

    This is embarassing, that last line should say "sudo apt-get install rails && rails new ~/myproject" instead of what it said.

    But... it has always said that. ;-)

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • Options
    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    templewulf wrote: »
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    I just did some more digging and it looks like pygame has openGL bindings, but it looks like it's just straight one to one mapping to the openGL calls rather than a nice higher level wrapper around them, so that's not really what you're looking for there.

    IIRC, PyGame is actually just a wrapper around SDL. SDL requires a lot more out of you in comparison to XNA, but it's perfectly capable of running any OpenGL code you throw at it.

    It's not limited by anything, just bad programmer art.

    Yeah, it's mostly the audience. PyGame is great for hobbyist programmers that make a game solo, so the art kinda tends to be lacking. ;-)

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Infidel wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure, like every law, whether it is abused varies company to company.

    I don't even know off the top of my head what the equivalent is to the H1B here in Canada. I have a lot of foreign trained coworkers in my company, and we're all just one big team. It's not a hot issue at all up here, from my chair anyways, but I also think that this company is a cut above so there is that.

    H1B is just one way for a company to exploit as much as legally possible.

    Indeed, my comment probably came off as incredibly offensive to ethea mainly because it was kind of offensive to read that from them and to find out practically the whole company of 6 people is H1Bs with the exception of the CEO/CFO and secretary.

    To which I attributed their whole company as a sweatshop and sort of lashed out at H1Bs in general. No hard feelings ethea, I didn't mean it like that. I'm actually surprised when I read things like "we can't find any talent in the US!" in blogs (not at this guy's company obviously because it is his own doing), but places like Microsoft. I mean I could submit my resume but I hardly find job availability posted, or, if it is, it's sadly lacking in compensation. Like the proverbial "Need a PhD, 10 years of experience, 5 years of experience in these miniscule technologies, $28,000 a year"

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Infidel wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure, like every law, whether it is abused varies company to company.

    I don't even know off the top of my head what the equivalent is to the H1B here in Canada. I have a lot of foreign trained coworkers in my company, and we're all just one big team. It's not a hot issue at all up here, from my chair anyways, but I also think that this company is a cut above so there is that.

    H1B is just one way for a company to exploit as much as legally possible.

    Canada visa for workers is incredibly simple, and the offer to fast track American H1B works to full canadian citzens without job offers in Canada in certain fields.

    Bowen, I am not angry at you, and I will reply to you once I am at home.

    Ethea on
  • Options
    BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So, I want to get a headstart on programming Java ready for Uni next year. I only have 2 years or so experience working with Visual Basic.net 2008, though. Does anyone have any good tutorials to get started with?

    Blurbl on
  • Options
    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh Quartus:
    Info: Fitter placement operations beginning
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 1 hour(s)
    

    You poor thing, I work you like a dog.

    Edit:
    Info: Fitter placement operations beginning
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 1 hour(s)
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 2 hour(s)
    

    And it's still going! Please fit please fit please fit

    Edit 2:
    Info: Fitter placement was successful
    Info: Fitter placement operations ending: elapsed time is 02:59:05
    

    Yeeeessssssssssss

    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • Options
    LindenLinden Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blurbl wrote: »
    So, I want to get a headstart on programming Java ready for Uni next year. I only have 2 years or so experience working with Visual Basic.net 2008, though. Does anyone have any good tutorials to get started with?

    Undergrad? You'll be fine. Language is rarely a big deal, and that level of experience is way beyond what I'd expect (exception: you're at some elite university with a competitive programme).
    Go build a simple Asteroids clone or something similar – it should give you the syntax quite happily.

    Linden on
  • Options
    KakodaimonosKakodaimonos Code fondler Helping the 1% get richerRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Oh Quartus:
    Info: Fitter placement operations beginning
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 1 hour(s)
    

    You poor thing, I work you like a dog.

    Edit:
    Info: Fitter placement operations beginning
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 1 hour(s)
    Info: Placement optimizations have been running for 2 hour(s)
    

    And it's still going! Please fit please fit please fit

    Edit 2:
    Info: Fitter placement was successful
    Info: Fitter placement operations ending: elapsed time is 02:59:05
    

    Yeeeessssssssssss

    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    Analog or digital?

    Kakodaimonos on
  • Options
    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    Analog or digital?

    Mainly internal digital timing requirements. Timing on the I/O pins are pretty good.

    Shame that particular compile didn't route. Figured out after another half hour or so. =/

    Oh well - had to add in another feature anyway - back to recompiling!

    I am so thankful for unattended automated build scripts.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • Options
    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    Analog or digital?

    Mainly internal digital timing requirements. Timing on the I/O pins are pretty good.

    Shame that particular compile didn't route. Figured out after another half hour or so. =/

    Oh well - had to add in another feature anyway - back to recompiling!

    I am so thankful for unattended automated build scripts.

    Looks like I should lease you cycles on my workstation after all!

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • Options
    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Infidel wrote: »
    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    Analog or digital?

    Mainly internal digital timing requirements. Timing on the I/O pins are pretty good.

    Shame that particular compile didn't route. Figured out after another half hour or so. =/

    Oh well - had to add in another feature anyway - back to recompiling!

    I am so thankful for unattended automated build scripts.

    Looks like I should lease you cycles on my workstation after all!

    Haha

    Looks like the PA forums currently needs them more than I do! :P

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • Options
    Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Infidel wrote: »
    Go go physical synthesis - let me meet timing requirements!

    Analog or digital?

    Mainly internal digital timing requirements. Timing on the I/O pins are pretty good.

    Shame that particular compile didn't route. Figured out after another half hour or so. =/

    Oh well - had to add in another feature anyway - back to recompiling!

    I am so thankful for unattended automated build scripts.

    Looks like I should lease you cycles on my workstation after all!

    Haha

    Looks like the PA forums currently needs them more than I do! :P

    O(snap)

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • Options
    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ecco does things with computers that I cannot begin to understand

    Jasconius on
  • Options
    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Jasconius wrote: »
    ecco does things with computers that I cannot begin to understand

    Ahh! You have unwittingly stumbled upon the secret - it is because I don't actually programme computers - I programme FPGAs nowadays, mainly.

    They are soooo awesome for what they do, but relatively hard to develop and debug when compared to a computer.

    Sometimes I read what you guys are up to, and I get all nostalgic because you guys are doing such awesome things with cool languages, whereas I'm literally worrying about how fast I can shuffle bits around every clock cycle.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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