My pokemon are chomping at the bit. Why do I make them wear bits? Because it helps with the pain if you have something to bite down on. Something like your pokemon.
I'm sorry! I was available for a while yesterday, then went incommunicado all night. Now I'm at work posting from my phone which will further limit my availability, but only for 6 or 7 hours or so, then back to my old posting self.
While we wait I can fill you guys in on a little information.
I've been giving the system a hard critical look as we've been playing and to me there are a few clear areas for improvement sticking out. The clearest being...
- Despite using the Stress system there's still a whole lot of whiffing going on. Turns where "nothing happens" are my nemesis and must be destroyed.
- Although I wanted to narrow the tactical choices each turn (two/three actions to choose from and a handful of super attacks to bring out as a rare treat) all too often there's a clear "correct" choice to make. This is going to happen sometimes (squirtle will almost always want to blast charmander with water, not bite him) it's happening more than I'd like.
To combat this I've changed the core system for actions rewritten every Pokemon's actions to fit the new system. I've pasted in the proposed changes to the action mechanic below, with a couple of sample pokemon to see what you think. The new system generally has a higher Stress output with more secondary effects that don't rely on causing Stress. As such Stress Limits may be raised across the board but Defenses will mostly remain how they are. More importantly, the dice are a bit more predictable, with a probability curve now in place. No more rolling a 1 ruining your turn. Rolling snake eyes will still ruin your turn, but if you do that you deserve it!
At the moment the numbers are a little wild, so some attacks are going to need tweaking one way or another. Think of them more as proof of concept than proposed final numbers. Super Attacks have been modified but not worrying about them too much just yet.
All feedback is appreciated but in the interest of keeping the thread focus on the battles please spoiler tag it.
Actions
When a player uses one of their Pokemon’s actions they immediately roll two six-sided dice. The higher of these is the High Die and the lower is the Low Die. If the dice are modified after the roll their sorting in this way is not effected. For example, if a 2 and a 3 are rolled and the 2 is raised to 4 it is still considered the Low Die.
Matching dice are not treated any differently unless a special rule is in place.
The High and Low dice then trigger their effects based on the Pokemon’s actions, being resolved in the order they are written.
Attacks
Many Actions will result in an Attack of a certain type such as Normal, Fire or Psychic. The target’s Defence is subtracted from the value of the die used to make the attack and this much Stress is caused to the target. An attack that fails to cause any Stress or Poison Tokens is considered Unsuccessful.
A Note on High and Low Dice
The effects listed for your High and Low die will often refer to “this die”, such as in the example below.
Low: If you caused Stress this turn your target subtracts this die from their high die on their next turn.
In these cases “this die” always refers to the die that is triggering the effect, in this case your low die.
A Note on Effects
Unless specifically noted extra effects from actions such as bonuses to your attacks or penalties to the opponent’s defence do not stack if they come from the same action, unless specifically noted otherwise.
Pidgey
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Flight 6, Other 1.
Defences: 3 vs Grass and Normal, 2 vs Others except Water.
Actions
Gust
High: If 4+ the target subtracts 1 from all Dice until your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal attack. Add 1 to this attack if the target does not have any Flight-related Feat Dice.
Quick Attack:
Low: Add 1 and make a Normal Attack.
High: Subtract 3. Repeat your Low Die Attack a number of times equal to this die.
Bonus Power
Dust Cloud: Whenever this Pokemon makes a Super Attack their opponent subtracts 1 from all dice on their next turn.
Gastly
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Haunting 6, Other 1.
Defences: 4 vs Normal and Grass, 2 vs others except Psychic.
Actions
Lick
High: If 4+ the target subtracts 2 their Low Die until the end of your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal Attack.
Curse
Low: Make a Psychic Attack. If this causes Stress add 2 to your High Die.
High: If 6+ the target takes a point of Stress every time they roll a 1 from now until the end of the battle. This does not stack if applied multiple times.
Bonus Power
Dark Spirit: This Pokemon adds 3 to any attacks they make against a Pokemon that can make a Psychic attack with one of their normal actions.
Pikachu
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Quickness 6, Cuteness 5, Other 1.
Defences: 3 vs Electric, 1 vs Others.
Actions
Thundershock
Low: If 4+ add this die to your High Die.
High: Make an Electric Attack.
Agility
High: If 5+ add 2 to your Defences until your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal Attack.
Bonus Power
Fully Charged: When you make an Electric Super Attack you lose 2 Stress.
Very much so... All the more reason to throw balance out of the window eh? Going to flesh out ways to train up your pokemon too, so even if you love vulpix but think he's too weak you'll be able to train him up to compete with the big guys.
Remember this game isn't really designed for this competitive pvp format, so in a traditional rpg style session it won't matter so much with some good GMing.
Kinda like the direction of this high/low system. As you said, it keeps things interesting in that while you may not damage your foe, you may hinder them and set yourself up for the next attack. Can't wait to see how it plays out!
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
The entire audience cries out in anguish upon seeing the Meowth brutally defeated. The eyes of children are covered, those with weak constitutions faint, and plenty of people get up and leave. It's a sad sad round.
But Elliot Tehm silently calls back his Meowth and tosses a pokeball high in the air with a practiced pitch. It lands on one of the platforms above. Mankey searches from side to side looking for the pokemon until his eyes lock onto his target.
The force of the blast slams into Mankey for another 6 stress, totaling 8 and knocking it out of the fight. Newton's third law is illustrated as the slippery skinned poliwag pitches off the side and plummets to the ground from the force of his own attack.
Edit for some Playtest notes:
It might not have been right me to do an attack like hypnosis from above, but I figured I dealt with it ok. A rule like that one might need some sort of "normal" or "not-psychic" caveat. Playtest note 2 is that a more definite order of operations might be necessary. The stadium description described "after completing the attack", however hypnosis's description says you "may immediately carry out different action". In this case it didn't matter, but we can see here how the order could have affected the outcome. If I had rolled 6 damage from falling (or if Poliwag had already been injured), it would have affected whether or not he faints or gets to make an attack. I took the word "immediately after" to have precedence over after (since it implies the stadium's damage comes from another event other than the attack itself), but a case could be made for the other interpretation, taking the stadium's damage as part of the attack. In either case, it could be useful to make explicit when certain events are supposed to occur, if only so that it conforms to the designers intent (and furthermore, could be relevant to strategies).
Edit 2: Not that I blame Orokos. This is about my spread IRL as well.
Edit 3: I know that balance is something you're not worried about, but I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of threat-value thing for each pokemon and a rubrik for determining what threat value a pokemon is. Even if it's something simple like a tiered system. Pokemon could be spread across 5 or so tiers so that super powerful legendary pokemon and third evolutions are around 4 or 5, most babies and magikarp around 1, and everything else inbetween. That way for a tournament-type game like this one, people could choose from different tiers to build their pokemon team. That way players can build their team from a mixture across the tiers. Maybe they only have a couple of super powerful pokemon, a mix across the tiers, or max out all 6 rattatas.
On top of that, if level gains move you from one tier to another, it could allow a fair way to include big-swole squirtles as opposed to ones fresh off the boat.
Mr. Science blinks and realizes he's still in the battle. "Whoops. Go and do that again Klink. If you still remember what it was."
Klink shoots out some electricity, and barely does any damage. Herp. Discharge: 1d61 +1 from build charge, -1 from the overstress = 1 wooo
The +1 to defenses and attacks is extended though~
That way players can build their team from a mixture across the tiers. Maybe they only have a couple of super powerful pokemon, a mix across the tiers, or max out all 6 rattatas.
But what if you only want 1 rattatta. That's in the top percent of all rattata
That way players can build their team from a mixture across the tiers. Maybe they only have a couple of super powerful pokemon, a mix across the tiers, or max out all 6 rattatas.
But what if you only want 1 rattatta. That's in the top percent of all rattata
that kid is the best trainer
i swear later on that rattatta must take down the elite 4 single-handedly
piL, I think the stress from rolling a 1 would kick in before you got to make another attack from hypnosis, as the hypnosis attack has ended, triggering the falling damage. As such he's knocked out before he can use water gun. Hope that seems fair.
Posts
But now we've got another one too
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Casanova, I choose you!
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-FURY SWIPES-
re-reroll = 1d6=5=3 stress
reroll=1d6=6=4 stress
I take 1 stress. Casanova is knocked out?
POOR CASANOVA.
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piL's meowth
Yey something happened! Good job Egos! Don't give up piL!
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I've been giving the system a hard critical look as we've been playing and to me there are a few clear areas for improvement sticking out. The clearest being...
- Despite using the Stress system there's still a whole lot of whiffing going on. Turns where "nothing happens" are my nemesis and must be destroyed.
- Although I wanted to narrow the tactical choices each turn (two/three actions to choose from and a handful of super attacks to bring out as a rare treat) all too often there's a clear "correct" choice to make. This is going to happen sometimes (squirtle will almost always want to blast charmander with water, not bite him) it's happening more than I'd like.
To combat this I've changed the core system for actions rewritten every Pokemon's actions to fit the new system. I've pasted in the proposed changes to the action mechanic below, with a couple of sample pokemon to see what you think. The new system generally has a higher Stress output with more secondary effects that don't rely on causing Stress. As such Stress Limits may be raised across the board but Defenses will mostly remain how they are. More importantly, the dice are a bit more predictable, with a probability curve now in place. No more rolling a 1 ruining your turn. Rolling snake eyes will still ruin your turn, but if you do that you deserve it!
At the moment the numbers are a little wild, so some attacks are going to need tweaking one way or another. Think of them more as proof of concept than proposed final numbers. Super Attacks have been modified but not worrying about them too much just yet.
All feedback is appreciated but in the interest of keeping the thread focus on the battles please spoiler tag it.
When a player uses one of their Pokemon’s actions they immediately roll two six-sided dice. The higher of these is the High Die and the lower is the Low Die. If the dice are modified after the roll their sorting in this way is not effected. For example, if a 2 and a 3 are rolled and the 2 is raised to 4 it is still considered the Low Die.
Matching dice are not treated any differently unless a special rule is in place.
The High and Low dice then trigger their effects based on the Pokemon’s actions, being resolved in the order they are written.
Attacks
Many Actions will result in an Attack of a certain type such as Normal, Fire or Psychic. The target’s Defence is subtracted from the value of the die used to make the attack and this much Stress is caused to the target. An attack that fails to cause any Stress or Poison Tokens is considered Unsuccessful.
A Note on High and Low Dice
The effects listed for your High and Low die will often refer to “this die”, such as in the example below.
Low: If you caused Stress this turn your target subtracts this die from their high die on their next turn.
In these cases “this die” always refers to the die that is triggering the effect, in this case your low die.
A Note on Effects
Unless specifically noted extra effects from actions such as bonuses to your attacks or penalties to the opponent’s defence do not stack if they come from the same action, unless specifically noted otherwise.
Pidgey
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Flight 6, Other 1.
Defences: 3 vs Grass and Normal, 2 vs Others except Water.
Actions
Gust
High: If 4+ the target subtracts 1 from all Dice until your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal attack. Add 1 to this attack if the target does not have any Flight-related Feat Dice.
Quick Attack:
Low: Add 1 and make a Normal Attack.
High: Subtract 3. Repeat your Low Die Attack a number of times equal to this die.
Bonus Power
Dust Cloud: Whenever this Pokemon makes a Super Attack their opponent subtracts 1 from all dice on their next turn.
Gastly
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Haunting 6, Other 1.
Defences: 4 vs Normal and Grass, 2 vs others except Psychic.
Actions
Lick
High: If 4+ the target subtracts 2 their Low Die until the end of your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal Attack.
Curse
Low: Make a Psychic Attack. If this causes Stress add 2 to your High Die.
High: If 6+ the target takes a point of Stress every time they roll a 1 from now until the end of the battle. This does not stack if applied multiple times.
Bonus Power
Dark Spirit: This Pokemon adds 3 to any attacks they make against a Pokemon that can make a Psychic attack with one of their normal actions.
Pikachu
Stress Limit: 6
Feat Dice: Quickness 6, Cuteness 5, Other 1.
Defences: 3 vs Electric, 1 vs Others.
Actions
Thundershock
Low: If 4+ add this die to your High Die.
High: Make an Electric Attack.
Agility
High: If 5+ add 2 to your Defences until your next turn.
Low: Make a Normal Attack.
Bonus Power
Fully Charged: When you make an Electric Super Attack you lose 2 Stress.
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Remember this game isn't really designed for this competitive pvp format, so in a traditional rpg style session it won't matter so much with some good GMing.
SoogaGames Blog
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SoogaGames Blog
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SoogaGames Blog
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But Elliot Tehm silently calls back his Meowth and tosses a pokeball high in the air with a practiced pitch. It lands on one of the platforms above. Mankey searches from side to side looking for the pokemon until his eyes lock onto his target.
And, kind of stay there.
Just for a bit.
Hypnosis, from above!: 1d6+2-2 1
Mankey is made queasy by the effect, taking only 1 stress.
"Now Poliwag, water gun!" Elliot Tehm cries and the Poliwag fires (1d6+1 for the ability, +1 for the trainer power, +1 for hypnosis)
Water Gun!: 1d6+3 9
The force of the blast slams into Mankey for another 6 stress, totaling 8 and knocking it out of the fight. Newton's third law is illustrated as the slippery skinned poliwag pitches off the side and plummets to the ground from the force of his own attack.
Poliwag falls
Taking 5 stress.
Edit for some Playtest notes:
It might not have been right me to do an attack like hypnosis from above, but I figured I dealt with it ok. A rule like that one might need some sort of "normal" or "not-psychic" caveat. Playtest note 2 is that a more definite order of operations might be necessary. The stadium description described "after completing the attack", however hypnosis's description says you "may immediately carry out different action". In this case it didn't matter, but we can see here how the order could have affected the outcome. If I had rolled 6 damage from falling (or if Poliwag had already been injured), it would have affected whether or not he faints or gets to make an attack. I took the word "immediately after" to have precedence over after (since it implies the stadium's damage comes from another event other than the attack itself), but a case could be made for the other interpretation, taking the stadium's damage as part of the attack. In either case, it could be useful to make explicit when certain events are supposed to occur, if only so that it conforms to the designers intent (and furthermore, could be relevant to strategies).
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Edit: I just counted my rolls on Orokos.
25 rolls total:
1: 7 28%
2: 3 12%
3: 5 20%
4: 3 12%
5: 3 12%
6: 4 16%
Edit 2: Not that I blame Orokos. This is about my spread IRL as well.
Edit 3: I know that balance is something you're not worried about, but I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of threat-value thing for each pokemon and a rubrik for determining what threat value a pokemon is. Even if it's something simple like a tiered system. Pokemon could be spread across 5 or so tiers so that super powerful legendary pokemon and third evolutions are around 4 or 5, most babies and magikarp around 1, and everything else inbetween. That way for a tournament-type game like this one, people could choose from different tiers to build their pokemon team. That way players can build their team from a mixture across the tiers. Maybe they only have a couple of super powerful pokemon, a mix across the tiers, or max out all 6 rattatas.
On top of that, if level gains move you from one tier to another, it could allow a fair way to include big-swole squirtles as opposed to ones fresh off the boat.
Discharge: 1d6 1 +1 from build charge, -1 from the overstress = 1 wooo
The +1 to defenses and attacks is extended though~
that kid is the best trainer
i swear later on that rattatta must take down the elite 4 single-handedly
SoogaGames Blog
"Weedle! Don't die!"
1 stress. Fury Swipes is countered and Mankey reaches 3 stress.
Stress: 1d6 1 Elliot takes 1 stress.
The Followthrough: 1d6 2
not surprised
Damage from Special: 1d6 6
"Weedle?"
Elliot is at stress. The attack does nothing to Mankey.
1: 9 30%
2: 4 13%
3: 5 17%
4: 4 13%
5: 3 10%
6: 5 17%